Alpha4d difficulty

Started by Tynan, June 03, 2014, 01:40:41 PM

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In Alpha4d (build 462), how difficult did you find Cassandra Classic?

Too hard - I got destroyed, it seemed unfair
15 (45.5%)
Really hard, but beatable
10 (30.3%)
Normal - a challenge, but nothing crazy
5 (15.2%)
Easy - I wasn't really threatened
0 (0%)
Too easy - nothing could touch me
3 (9.1%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Tynan

Please make sure you update to Alpha4d before voting! That's build 462. Balance has changed from earlier versions.

Please only respond to the poll if:

-You played a game on Cassandra Classic
-You played a long game (at least 50 days)

I'm looking for difficulty balancing feedback and I want to hear how it's been going for you guys. We're going to try to get metrics in for later versions so this can be balanced a lot more tightly but this is my temporary solution for now.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

dd0029

Which is D? I have 460, which was easy and now 461. This has been a challenge. At 35 days I have a wave of 13 pirates coming in. I already beat a wave of ~10, killing 6 and running off 4 by sacrificing most of the inside of my base and abusing the fact that the raiders would rather beat on things instead of kill people. This one has me a bit concerned.

Tynan

I updated the first post with the actual build number (462).
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

ctgill

Are you looking for feedback based off plays on unmodded stock versions?
Yes. Yes, this is a fertile land, and we will thrive. We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... "This Land.".

iame6162013

Quote from: ctgill on June 03, 2014, 02:37:32 PM
Are you looking for feedback based off plays on unmodded stock versions?
i think unmodded.
Linus Torvalds: "But it clearly is the only right way. The fact that everybody else does it some other way only means that they are wrong"
Robert J. Hanlon: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

Tynan

Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

Piata

I've only played one game so far, but it ended around 30 days in.

First conflict was one guy with a bow.
Second conflict was two guys with molotov cocktail cocktails.
Third conflict was over a dozen guys with machine guns, laser rifles and grenades.

My 4 person colony with 2 hand guns and a rifle were steam rolled. The difficulty seemed reasonable up until then.

Tynan

Quote from: Piata on June 03, 2014, 03:02:05 PM
I've only played one game so far, but it ended around 30 days in.

First conflict was one guy with a bow.
Second conflict was two guys with molotov cocktail cocktails.
Third conflict was over a dozen guys with machine guns, laser rifles and grenades.

My 4 person colony with 2 hand guns and a rifle were steam rolled. The difficulty seemed reasonable up until then.

What build was this? 460, 461, or 462?
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

Astraeus

#8
Edit: AAAAAAAAND I see that there was another update, 461 is too old. My bad.


As soon as A4 came out, I went pretty crazy with it, interweaving it in-between Wildstar leveling time.

When A4 first came out, I got to Day 75~ no problems really at all. Then you released the hotfix.....

As soon as I booted up my day 77 save on A4's hotfix (folder name 461), a super gigantic wave of pirates launch on Day 80, all armed with the best weaponry while I still only have pistols and lee's. Now, I keep track of these forums and I see that you hotfixed something to deal with a difficulty curve that wasn't existant, so I figure maybe this happened because none of the previous "attacks" included this weaponry so I don't have any myself.

I made a new game, and early on (day 20? I really don't know), another pirate attack shows up with shotguns and maybe an M24, while once again, I still only have pistols and lees. I managed to beat this through rigorous save-scumming but it really does seem way too hard. I got the 2 shotguns and the M24, and the next time I was attacked included three mechanoids. One had the inferno cannon, the other two had rapid fire weaponry (minigun and Charge gun probably). Again, with a handful of pistols, and 2 shotguns that required my guys to get super close, this was brutal. As they came down my entrance hallway where my turrets were located, they simply outranged them and took them out no problem. Again, I had to resort to save scumming and various tactics to overcome it, most notably letting them get between my buildings so I could rush out and zerg them at close range.. but it's just still too hard.

I've also dealt with tribal waves that are just too damn big, considering they just rush you and no amount of weaponry in the world helps.. only a super line of turrets to "distract" them as you pick away.

Honestly, I feel it's too hard right now but I can't say for sure I'm doing what I should be doing. I might take way too long to get turrets up, but I don't like to bother until my walls are built. The problem is that finally getting around to building walls and then turrets takes significantly longer now that I don't build my base from inside a natural cave. I have to actually build houses with wood (which I do very much like btw, but it does slow down my preparations for defenses), and then I have to research stone, and.. blah, it just takes longer to get everything set up. Normally your 3 introduction characters can handle the growing, mining, and constructing. Now there is a 4th role of crafting thrown in and they seem a little overwhelmed at first. Admittedly, you do seem to always give us a "crash pod survivor" early on, and that helps immensely.

I try to avoid super cheese strategies, so again I don't know if you're balancing for something I don't know about. I do not have people "practice shooting" at a wall all day, I do not have an entrance absolutely blanketed in sandbags to prevent movement as they come in. I have a typical wall around my base, a long hallway entrance with 2x1 stone walls for shooters to lean out of. I'll upload my save actually and you can see.

My save:  https://www.dropbox.com/s/2mpnne3fbrwj9p6/We%20Landed%20Hard.rim

Edit: AAAAAAAAND I see that there was another update, 461 is too old. My bad.

Tynan

Astraeus, your feedback is still very valuable. Thank you for going into detail and giving specifics, and providing the save. I'll have a look at it now.
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

ctgill

Raid 1 - came on day 10 - 1 pirate crash landing with roughly 60% HP and a handgun on top of my best shot.

Raid 2 - Day 19, three tribals with stones and two short bows arrive bringing a solar flare with them. (current colony strength 3, prisoners 4)

Raid 3 - Day 31, 11 Tribals armed with an assortment of the usual tribal weapons. (Current colony strength 6 + 3 turrets)

Raid 4 - Day 47, 18 Tribals armed with the usual kit. (Current colony strength 6 + 1 turret)

Ending my game at day 47 after fighting a war of attrition in the hills, having lost my home to fire and my colonists to arrows my last and best shot was still no match for the remaining 10+

My people were armed with
2x M16
1x M-24
1x Uzi
2x Pistol
all colonists had shooting over 5, the M16 users had shooting 7 and the sniper had shooting 9.

A note after all that is the arrows vs the assault rifles or higher granted there we're if I had to guess id say 10 arrows flying at me per m16 burst. They felt a little too accurate for being arrows fired at their max range. All in all the turret didn't do much and the fight was over within 3 minutes time.

This is the closest I've been able to get to 50+ days in recent games.
Yes. Yes, this is a fertile land, and we will thrive. We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... "This Land.".

Tynan

Thank you ctgill. Numbers like this are very useful. Confirming - this is on 462, yeah?
Tynan Sylvester - @TynanSylvester - Tynan's Blog

ctgill

Yes it is.

I saved manually right as Raid #3 appeared - https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed36hqzaohm9u1k/Raid3.rim

However the last raid manual saving slipped my mind but there was an autosave a few in-game days prior. During those days a combat supply vessel that was used to arm my people and sell off bows / pistols had appeared as well as a few bouts with insanity and last minute construction so I'm not sure if replaying that will see it go exactly the same or even remotely close.

Here is that auto save anyways for what use it may be. - https://www.dropbox.com/s/wovu567pd9qff13/PreRaid4Autosave.rim

Yes. Yes, this is a fertile land, and we will thrive. We will rule over all this land, and we will call it... "This Land.".

Astraeus

Quote from: Tynan on June 03, 2014, 04:16:51 PM
Astraeus, your feedback is still very valuable. Thank you for going into detail and giving specifics, and providing the save. I'll have a look at it now.

Thanks. Fear not! I will have another go at a fresh game tonight and post the results. I have been playing since A1 (which I spent hours on), and I have to say the introduction of wood and having to build homes instead of living in a cave has mixed things up tremendously, for the better. Now that my people are actually living in homes, and not cave dwellers, you've taken this game 30 steps away from Dwarf Fortress and Gnomoria and given the game it's own feel.

snlehton

Tynan, why don't you put the alpha version in the game, too? In the main menu it only reports the version number and it's quite hard to remember which version was which alpha... In fact, why not drop the whole Alpha4x term altogether and just say 0.4.461 or so? Or start using simple, increasing build numbers as they do with prison architect.

Anyway, I played 0.4.461 a bit  (with Chill Cassie so I didn't vote) and while everything seemed to go just okay, suddenly at day 36 there was a raid with just two Centipedes but with 800 HP each, one equipped with minigun and other with Inferno gun. They completely obliterated my base - there was absolutely nothing I could do. Not so fun :P