Obviously huge fan of RimWorld with more hours than I should have. I've been enjoying Royalty, I have and still am. BUT.
Why the choice of making a "Royal faction you have to abide by, turning your own colonists into royalty slobs who throw tantrums if their decrees are ignored"??? And why so much more of mechanoid raids and now sieges, surely a large part of the RimWorld players don't enjoy quests and mechanoids, altogether.
RimWorld is a huge open game where anyone can play whoever they want. I'm very curious why, of all DLC possibilities, Tynan and the team went with a "royal" idea that they figured we'd enjoy? And I have been enjoying it, but also, I'd enjoy other DLC ideas a lot more, too.
So, your alternative more obvious idea is what?
And the Royalty Faction can be ignored completely in your game if you like. Even with the DLC loaded. They are still mostly optional in the game. You don't "have to abide" by any of their guff.
I don't get paid to give out ideas, but hey maybe some off the top will inspire.
- Storytelling events expanded - Instead of using the same events in a royal way, make a ton of new creative events altogether, to keep the colony always wondering what unique could happen next. A singular unique rogue robot/mechanoid you can either kill or adopt. A colony on the run with the chance being from multiple things varying on chance of difficulty. A new person joins colony but starts on an ally's base and has to make the trip. I can come up with a hundred more if I'd take the time.
- Auto-generated alien races - Mods bring specific races, vanilla DLC should be able to auto-generate various vanilla alien types.
- Planet changes - The planet looks the same - why not add new planet changes or variations?
- Item expansion - This is a no brainer and I get that Royalty will bring some, but let's face it, there's way too many mods for simple expansion of simple vanilla items like "more floors". Floors are way too few when everyone is building bases, most of us building giant bases.
- The "middle steps" between cowboy and space - The "wheel": vehicles, war between factions outside of colony homes, better vanilla base designs, "cities", encountering small trade caravans on the go, ability to go from vanilla storytelling/population to middle civilization then to spacer civilization each profile supporting each play era.
- Ability to get off the planet - Let's face it, this is the DLC we want since Vanilla endgame is to get off the planet.
You also don't get paid for a lot of other things. Wow, ideas are cheap dude, execution is where it's at. \
1. Great idea.
2. Uh... wow. this one staggers me as way too difficult to get thematically interesting results without it being repetitive and not truly intriguing. A lot of buck with minimal bang the hand of a human designer is what makes a faction interesting.
3. a graphic overhaul or all new rules? all new rules would basically be all new game. that seems like overkill.
4. so have Tynan waste time doing what is already done?
5. Many are already done in mods a few already in the game- I encounter trade caravans on the go all the time. Or maybe that's a mod? Whatever it happens a lot.
6. Save our ship2?
Quote from: ProfZelonka on March 02, 2020, 10:52:01 PM
I don't get paid to give out ideas, but hey maybe some off the top will inspire.
- Storytelling events expanded - Instead of using the same events in a royal way, make a ton of new creative events altogether, to keep the colony always wondering what unique could happen next. A singular unique rogue robot/mechanoid you can either kill or adopt. A colony on the run with the chance being from multiple things varying on chance of difficulty. A new person joins colony but starts on an ally's base and has to make the trip. I can come up with a hundred more if I'd take the time.
- Auto-generated alien races - Mods bring specific races, vanilla DLC should be able to auto-generate various vanilla alien types.
- Planet changes - The planet looks the same - why not add new planet changes or variations?
- Item expansion - This is a no brainer and I get that Royalty will bring some, but let's face it, there's way too many mods for simple expansion of simple vanilla items like "more floors". Floors are way too few when everyone is building bases, most of us building giant bases.
- The "middle steps" between cowboy and space - The "wheel": vehicles, war between factions outside of colony homes, better vanilla base designs, "cities", encountering small trade caravans on the go, ability to go from vanilla storytelling/population to middle civilization then to spacer civilization each profile supporting each play era.
- Ability to get off the planet - Let's face it, this is the DLC we want since Vanilla endgame is to get off the planet.
I like some of these ideas. Aliens would be breaking from the Fiction primer however, so while they are great for mods, I'm not a fan of them (at least as something commonplace) being in vanilla.
I'd agree that the biggest thing that feels lacking in RimWorld is the lack of technology between tribal and industrial, as well as vehicles. Though I feel like vehicles would be a lot of work largely because of balancing. I'd also personally like a "make camp" feature to generate an encounter map at will while caravaning.
Quote from: dearmad on March 02, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
So, your alternative more obvious idea is what?
Native Combat Extended mode with ammo, supression, equipment system, sidearms, much more lethal guns with autopatcher so there arent any compatibiliyy problems with mods.
Native RJW with pregnancy, fetishes and rest of that shit.
Native hygiene/water needs.
Native alternative for endgame by integrating Empire mod or something like that.
Native terraforming options.
Native mining/crafting extension.
Native agriculture extension with seeds, irrigation, toiling soil, soil erosion etc.
Just few ideas.
And the list goes on.
I'll point out that it's pretty odd to release royalty without first filling in the huge technological gap with medieval tech stuff.
And inb4 someone says "there are mods for that!"
Mods are good and all, but they should be treated as additional, optional content, rather than content that fills in the gaps in the vanilla game - those gaps shouldn't be there, in the first place.
All in all, I have pretty mixed feelings about the DLC. I do love the game, but it feels like a bit of a money grab to fully release the game, that, frankly, isn't as quite completed as it should be, and then release a DLC about half the price of the game, that adds content not many people have asked for (from what I've seen, apologies if I'm wrong). Don't want to speak for others, but me personally, I'd much prefer if this time was spent on a free update that polished some details, implemented few Quality of Life mods/changes that should be in the vanilla game, and filled in all the content gaps. Rather than a paid DLC with new content, that feels a bit out of place, if you ask me. Psychic stuff is basically the sci-fi version of magic, and Rimworld never struck me as a game that suits magical stuff.
Alright. Things have gotten a little off the rails, I think, from the original topic. Maybe not, but I'll address this anyway. Why Royals? Why the Empire? Let's break this down a bit. Rimworld is a hodge-podge of influences, like Dwarf Fortress for gameplay, but the primary thematic influence is more of a Firefly meets Battlestar Galactica. We're here on a rimworld, technology that borders on magic isn't exactly uncommon, but we're FAR from an industrialized society. But all that tech? All those devices? They came from somewhere, so where did they come from?
Look through all of science fiction and you'll see something that comes up over and over and over again: The Empire. Be it from Star Wars to Warhammer 40k to Star Trek, empires are EVERYWHERE. And for good reason. In terms of freedom and prosperity, a capitalist system is by far the best. it's all about the little guy, letting him do what he can. That's great if you don't mind all the cogs in your machine spinning in their own direction. If you want to create something BIG though, like Planetary big or even beyond, you're going to need to have a uniform direction. Some freedom will have to be sacrificed in order to push everyone in the same direction. And someone is going to have to be the one to point in that direction. That's where an empire comes in.
You can have various levels of freedom in an empire so long as everyone makes an effort to push towards the common goal (or the Greater Good, GO TAU). And Rimworld has a multi-planetary system, perhaps even pan-galactic civilization. That doesn't just happen on its own. So we have an empire, and we have a good reason for it to exist. Now, for that technology jump...
In 1.0, you crashed from a ship with some basic supplies but everything you needed to build another ship. It's handwaved, but with pirates and unions you'll just have to assume that collectively on the planet there is enough knowledge to build a starship and get out. That's great. Now picture that the Empire, who didn't explode in space and come crashing down, shows up. They're going to show up with the numbers, technology, and firepower to probably destroy the planet without much of a second thought. We're talking WWII navies showing up on tribal islands level of technological difference. That's why there's no real middleground between your tech and their tech. They're just better. And speaking of better...
It's not a stretch to believe that your colonists grew up in this enviroment. Before they all went into cryptosleep they probably lived on a planet that had either a regional or planetary lord of some kind. Sure, that's mostly just a planetary manager or governor but the title is still there with all the perks that go with it. In 1.0 though this really didn't matter. You crashed on a rimworld. Sure, you might be a royal on some core world but here that don't mean dick. Now in 1.1 though we have the Empire, and they're here. Royal titles now have the backing to be enforced. As your colonists rank up with the Empire they do get more bitchy, just as any royal would on a core world. And with the Empire here you are about one step removed from being a core world. So your royals demand to be pampered or else they will punish you for it, just as any other royal would.
Look, I can't change your mind to make you like something or don't like it, but the Royalty DLC isn't really that far out there from what Rimworld already is. Sure they didn't fill in the lore for it. They could, I'm sure, but so can we if we just think a little and get creative. I think Royals makes sense, it fits, and it works for what it wants to do which I think is giving us a taste of what it would be more like back home rather than on a god forsaken rock on the rim.
My only question now is what comes next. We have the Royals, the humans who control the star systems. But there is another player in the game: The AI. We know about the archotech worlds, controlled by AI that are leagues ahead of the human empire in technology. What can we bring to the game from THEIR civilization....besides more mechanoids to burn my farms downFUCK YOU INFERNO LAUNCHERS!
Quote from: ShadowKatt on March 03, 2020, 10:51:55 AM
And Rimworld has a multi-planetary system, perhaps even pan-galactic civilization. That doesn't just happen on its own. So we have an empire, and we have a good reason for it to exist.
But that's my point - RimWorld does *not* have a multi-planetary system. All that Royalty adds is a faction, to the same planet. Like I said, I'm not entirely sour about it and am enjoying it, but at the same time one could argue that it's more of an un-asked-for mod than it is a DLC. You know how many monuments I've already built and tore down for just royalty points, and how many times some royal guy is caught cheating and wants to hide her in my colony? Or how many times my colonists are bleeding with torn off limbs while my royal colonist wants to make a speech from the throne? To follow up with making 15 cochlear implant decree (wtf am I gonna do with 15 cochlear implants?) and having a mental breakdown then going into a coma because his decree was ignored. It just doesn't make any sense. It feels odd, like an unbalanced mod that isn't entirely thought thru, and leaves me wondering why Royalty for the DLC?
And if Royalty is a platform that new updates will expand on, why expand on an empire rather than further building & exploration?
*edit
Btw speaking of Battlestar Galactica and empire universes, how cool would it be if we had a vast amount of expanded incidents such as a new colonist joining, but then quietly sabotaging the base like a cylon would. Or some sort of story driven system where you can choose what type of events you experience whether they be sci-fi or more medieval/native and cross overs in between. I love RimWorld but constructively the biggest thing I can criticize it for most is the lack of storytelling, for a storytelling game. While it's still extremely fun and interesting to see what event the die stops on, repetition of events is far from story telling.
Quote from: ProfZelonka on March 03, 2020, 01:01:14 PM
Btw speaking of Battlestar Galactica and empire universes, how cool would it be if we had a vast amount of expanded incidents such as a new colonist joining, but then quietly sabotaging the base like a cylon would.
We actually already have that. Not to spoil anything, because obviously you haven't seen it, but it was literally the first quest I got after starting my first royalty colony. I accepted some new people on the run, you know, like any good colony governor would do. And about five days later they turned traitor and tried to murder us, with the weapons WE gave him. We were better at murder than him, but all the same...
I think you only get it if you're unaffiliated or opposed to the empire, because I haven't seen it since, but I haven't pissed them off either. Can barely stand up to mechanoids, not about to invite murderous cataphracts into my world.
Edit: Someone told me that that's part of Vanilla Events Expanded, not Royalty, so I retract my point.
Think OP missed something important that could give him a new perspective on the DLC.
You can also choose to go to war with them, install illegal black market psionics and start attacking their bases to chase them out of your territory. You can kidnap their royal figures and sell them to passing slave ships or put them to work scrubbing your floors. You can invite them into your home under a white flag of peace only to assassinate them while they dine at your table, on your bread.
Your options aren't just to join them. You can exploit them for profit, or you can fight them.
I also actually like the mechanoid changes. They're a threat now, and not just an annoyance. You think you've got a BA militia? Got 20 colonists suited up and ready to fight? Great, be ready to cry too. The enemies that you used to farm for resources are now hot-dropping in with their own security turrets, defensive structures, traps and logistic resources. You can't just line up a firing squad and watch them march to their deaths anymore, you're going to have to act with strategy.
I was on the fence before, but now I'm thinking about buying this.
Thematically though, what's the next big "expansion."
I'd have to say Corporations. That would round things out nicely.
Some of my home made scenarios involve corporate expeditions. For instance, I have a mining scenario where you start with deep drilling tech and an orbital trader arrives every ten days. The nominal goal is to mine stuff to sell to the trade ship when it arrives. I think they could do a lot with corporations, thematically speaking.
Quote from: Canaris on March 03, 2020, 05:59:15 AM
Quote from: dearmad on March 02, 2020, 10:07:21 PM
So, your alternative more obvious idea is what?
Native Combat Extended mode with ammo, supression, equipment system, sidearms, much more lethal guns with autopatcher so there arent any compatibiliyy problems with mods.
Native RJW with pregnancy, fetishes and rest of that shit.
Native hygiene/water needs.
Native alternative for endgame by integrating Empire mod or something like that.
Native terraforming options.
Native mining/crafting extension.
Native agriculture extension with seeds, irrigation, toiling soil, soil erosion etc.
Just few ideas.
And the list goes on.
So... take away from the modders' creativity and control of their mods *and* introduce more work into farming and keeping bodily functions in check, anmd a new population idea that extends the game time past the built-in endgame... what!?!? Yeah, perfect. UGH! :o
I run the hygiene mod myself but could see many players hating it, for example.
I personally detest CE and am glad for the simpler, yet still deadly, combat.
I'm continually surprised by how people perceive this game as being flawed because it isn't packed with every flippin idea out there. It is clearly designed to be satisfying, but never complete. And that openness lends itself to the magnificent modding world we have. If Tynan went down the road so many of you propose he would kill the community. But you can't see it, can you?
He must have endless patience to put up with the narrow mindedness of his "fans."
Quote from: ProfZelonka on March 03, 2020, 01:01:14 PM
Quote from: ShadowKatt on March 03, 2020, 10:51:55 AM
And Rimworld has a multi-planetary system, perhaps even pan-galactic civilization. That doesn't just happen on its own. So we have an empire, and we have a good reason for it to exist.
[snip]
And if Royalty is a platform that new updates will expand on, why expand on an empire rather than further building & exploration?
[snip]
They won't that was Tynan's entire design mandate for his DLC, don't you read his own postings? And can't you see it in how it integrates into the game anyway?
That clean in or out of it makes it staggeringly obvious.
Quote from: dearmad on March 03, 2020, 11:04:28 PM
He must have endless patience to put up with the narrow mindedness of his "fans."
yeah, power to the true fan! ;D
Quote
So... take away from the modders' creativity and control blah blah blah
You asked what features should take precedence/i would like to see over royalty and i answered.
And before you say anything - i supported the game from the start. I bought dlc. And i even liked it.
But i wont bullshit myself that it isnt halfassed and something that is completely irrelevant and nobody asked for.
If someone asked me what i wanted for Rimworld id say :
Making guns into actual threat and not peashooters.
Ammo and equipment system so my pawns can carry more shit than just one weapon.
Supression system so raiders arent all kamikaze and basic firearms tactics work for combat.
Adding additional layers to gameplay like hygiene/water needs so that the more extreme biomes are even more challenging and fun.
Adding kids/pregnancy/sex side of the human nature like RJW does.
Adding seeds so you cant just grow vast fields of devilstrand from nothing.
Adding basic terraforming options and adding more agriculture options like fertilizing, irrigating and toiling soil aka something that humans were able to do since at least 5000bc.
Adding smelting and ore processing and overall crafting overhaul into the game so i would have to establish some industry and not forge military grade rifles on my lap.
Adding psychology and entire mood system rework based on pawn psyche, upbringing, background etc so i wouldnt have people going apeshit because i dared to execute that heavily armed raider who wanted to destroy my colony. Or tribals going berserk because they *gasp* had to sleep on the floor.
You know what would never make my list ?
System that turns my colonists into even more whiny bitches who, to add insult to injury, are getting increasingly useless and more whiny in exchange for some minor powers psypowers which you cant even use that much because muh psy burnout.
As for the whole "narrowminded fans" bullshit - first of all you dont even use the correct word and second of all he gets paid for making this game so yeah he better have some patience for critique for people who basically employ him.
^ absolutely based
Quote from: Canaris on March 04, 2020, 05:07:38 AM
You know what would never make my list ?
System that turns my colonists into even more whiny bitches who, to add insult to injury, are getting increasingly useless and more whiny in exchange for some minor powers psypowers which you cant even use that much because muh psy burnout.
Amen
Well shit, no one's gonna top that..
/thread
I dunno what's going on here, but I'd like to see an expansion focused on quests and territorial control, I want to manage my mercenary band/Warband and fight for control of planet's surface. There's a world map, but its use is very limited.
For me DLC is best when it does what modders cannot do and enables new types of mods. This... is hard in Rimworld. Players can pretty much mod whatever they want and 'new assetts' are not a huge deal in a game with a very simple art style.
That said I think I see many doors this DLC will open up... for example Jecrell gave us 'spells' (force, magic, etc) but now they are mainstream for anyone to mod. We had guests but they where always buggy, now having people stay for a while is pretty mainstream. Shuttles formalize the work behind SRTS and above all...
Royalty is hopefully not the only faction we can have. If we can get something like Royalty but for Corporations, Criminal Empires, Space Militias, Religious Sects, etc... that would be insane. Now a half dozen off planet factions would be fighting for your attention and you could play through to 'duke' but also to 'general' or 'chairman' or 'cardinal' or whatever with specific gear and room requirements...
Quote from: Breadbox on March 04, 2020, 01:07:37 PM
I dunno what's going on here, but I'd like to see an expansion focused on quests and territorial control, I want to manage my mercenary band/Warband and fight for control of planet's surface. There's a world map, but its use is very limited.
+1 Agreed! This is why I used to like the Total War games and thought that Command & Conquer lacked. RimWorld brings the best of all worlds and territory control would be a huge plus to the game play and to "get the colonists out more".
Quote from: lugaruclone on March 04, 2020, 02:16:03 PM
For me DLC is best when it does what modders cannot do and enables new types of mods. This... is hard in Rimworld. Players can pretty much mod whatever they want and 'new assetts' are not a huge deal in a game with a very simple art style.
That said I think I see many doors this DLC will open up... for example Jecrell gave us 'spells' (force, magic, etc) but now they are mainstream for anyone to mod. We had guests but they where always buggy, now having people stay for a while is pretty mainstream. Shuttles formalize the work behind SRTS and above all...
Royalty is hopefully not the only faction we can have. If we can get something like Royalty but for Corporations, Criminal Empires, Space Militias, Religious Sects, etc... that would be insane. Now a half dozen off planet factions would be fighting for your attention and you could play through to 'duke' but also to 'general' or 'chairman' or 'cardinal' or whatever with specific gear and room requirements...
I think you raise a good point there. With the modding community doing everything they do(Thank you modders) what is left to expand on? In that case I think there's really only two things to add that the modders either can't or shouldn't. Starting with the latter, look at your mod list and tell me how many are content and how many are quality of life? You probably have more of the latter than the former. I see no reason why the QoL mods shouldn't just be added to the main. Things like Priority Treatment, pretty much a mandatory mod because without it your doctors will prioritize LITERALLY ANYTHING ELSE while people bleed to death. it's not even updated yet but I'm still using it in a less than complete state because I cannot micromanage all of my doctors and patients while trying to put out all the fires after a raid. There's really no excuse for that AI behaviour.
The other side of this is lore, and I think this is what Tynan and his team should be focusing on, and seem to be doing. We started with crashing on a rimworld. We're from an advanced civilization, shit went wrong, and here we are. Then we got the tribal start, so we could be from the planet and deal with the interlopers landing on our world(Death to the imperialists!). We got the Rich Explorer and Naked start, both are good but both are part of the same lore. Now we have the Empire. Not only does the rest of humanity exist, but it's a massive, multistar-system EMPIRE with better armor than us, better guns than us, and technologically enhanced psychic abilities. This is something that mechanically modders can add but they can't write the official canon of the story. Only the developer can do that.So that should be the focus, I think. As I stated before, I want to see in the future DLC a new race as well, the Archotechs. The less murderous AIs from the archotech worlds and who knows? Maybe they even bring a friendly scyther with them.
>muh modders did that already
So what ?
Modders often lack the skill, manpower, time or even things like access to the source code. And saying that its hard to think of something modders didnt already do its half truth at best.
I would welcome big code rewrite to greatly optimize the game, z levels, big city state mechanic where making your own faction has a meaning and you can influence planetary politics, DF like tracking of history and population, maybe some sort space aspect of the game where you generate the entire solar system and can eventually launch expeditions to another asteroids/planets, actually working vehicles aka things that modders cant actually do.
Meanwhile we got some cosmetics and copypasted the most disliked and reviled mechanics from DF.