lets not beat around the bush here, this trait is unbearable, late game it can be managed, but having colonist rush to possibly your stockpile to burn it, and having to get 1 or 2 of your colonist to manage it is still really bad. or even worse, possible breaking during something such as a raid.
I think it should be reworked to something a bit more bearable.
my suggestion would be slight mental break increase, and having setting things on fire be a minor break.
what are your thoughts?
Pyros should be able to manually set things on fire via player command to reduce their urge to go on a spree, and should get a mood boost for using molotovs/flamethrowers. Using the weapons would also reduce their urge by a large amount.
That's how I'd fix it.
Quote from: Thirite on February 10, 2017, 12:29:47 PM
Pyros should be able to manually set things on fire via player command to reduce their urge to go on a spree, and should get a mood boost for using molotovs/flamethrowers. Using the weapons would also reduce their urge by a large amount.
That's how I'd fix it.
I'm in agreement with them getting a mood (or at least joy) boost from using flame-related weapons, but having the player micro-manage them setting fires seems unnecessary and tedious to me. I think it's supposed to be an annoying and dangerous trait to have, everything can't always be hunky-dory now, can it? A couple of ways to help counteract the danger of having a pyromaniac in your colony is to build your buildings from stone as opposed to steel or wood, use plasteel or steel doors and to not build megastructures of interconnected buildings. Separate them out a fair bit, a gap of four tiles seems to work well for me.
I don't think we should nerf or remove annoyingly dangerous traits like these, they add an important element of story to the game. Without things like this, it would be too easy and peaceful. Having said that, though, I do think it could use improvement.
traits being bad is fine, but when its so bad nobody ever takes it, I have to say, something is probably wrong with it.
How about run it as mood modifiers.
Something like:
Saw a fire recently +1
Saw a big fire recently +4
Saw a huge fire recently +7
Haven't seen fire in a while -2
Haven't seen fire in a long time -5
Haven't seen fire what seems like forever -20
Then make the "burning things" break a normal break (maybe one that only affects pyros) but otherwise dependent on their mood. With some micro it can be managed, could even be seen as a minor positive.
That would require Tynan implement a whole new scale system for pyros (just like the food and sleep bars), just so they can gauge how long it's been since they saw a fire. Also, would this include campfires and torches? If it did, then it would be really easy to manage by just having those around your colony where necessary.
I think the problem we have with pyromaniacs is that there's no positive effect of them having the trait, but there's also no positive effect of someone being nervous, ugly or abrasive.
I wouldn't mind it working like drug addictions, where you have that little bar before your colonist gets debuffed. but instead of mood debuffs, its a fire setting spree.
Sure there are traits that have no positive side, but Pyromaniac is so annoying it pretty much always outweighs any other good qualities a pawn has. So pyros tend to go to the kibble factory along with the "Incapable of: everything" pawns.
How about something like this then:
- Pyros randomly do a "playing with fire" joy activity which has a lower end chance of actually spreading
- Pyros get a mood buff from using fire-related weaponry, and the number of things they burn down give them +1 mood each, capping at +20
- When in a low mood state they have a 50% chance to go on a fire starting spree rather than a normal non-violent mental break
- only get "catharsis" if their fires aren't immediately put out
- If someone puts out their fires when they are in a very low mood they'll promptly go berserk
Maybe pyros get a mood boost from smelting and cremating?
Quote from: Slimey on February 11, 2017, 04:35:18 AM
Maybe pyros get a mood boost from smelting and cremating?
That's a great idea.
I have seen a 100% mood colonist go on a fire starting spree... Why because he is at 100% mood I guess
Quote from: Thirite on February 10, 2017, 12:29:47 PM
Pyros should be able to manually set things on fire via player command to reduce their urge to go on a spree, and should get a mood boost for using molotovs/flamethrowers. Using the weapons would also reduce their urge by a large amount.
That's how I'd fix it.
This. It isn't that pyro is bad because of it's drawback. It is bad because of lack of pros. Pyro should be able to set raiders bases on fire without any tools, should get mood bonuses when using fire weapons (and actively shooting them).
Adding a
need of fire, which has a large buffer and drops very slowly could do the trick?
I agree they should have a mood buff for standing next to fire and this buff should last for a bit of time like when a pawn is in a beautiful environment ("there is the fire"+5). Debuff for missing sight of fire as well ("where is the fire?"-5). Plus i dont agree they go in a fire spree even if their mood is high
Quote from: Lurmey on February 10, 2017, 12:44:34 PM
A couple of ways to help counteract the danger of having a pyromaniac in your colony is to build your buildings from stone as opposed to steel or wood, use plasteel or steel doors and to not build megastructures of interconnected buildings. Separate them out a fair bit, a gap of four tiles seems to work well for me.
Except the OP never mentioned their base burning down. The OP DID very specifically mention stockpiles burning, which there is no counter too except firefoam poppers, which only fire off once and are done, while the pyro sets fire after fire.
Furthermore, a LESS flammable base means MORE damage from pyros, as they will ONLY light workstations and stockpiles on fire, and will actively seek them out to burn, if there is nothing else to light inside the base.
I agree that it's idiotic a trait and must be removed. It's kind of like having a trait that gives a pawn a random chance (regardless of happiness) to suddenly gun everyone down. Only a bit less. But sometimes more.. :)
Thing is it also makes 0 sense in a survival situation that something like that will be tolerated. I'm fairly certain that in 100% of real 'rimworld' situations, if one of the survivors started burning supplies, the rest will kill him.
BUT
It's funny as hell.
I had a pyro go burny on me once, and he kept insisting on burning the wooden chair next to the research bench. Problem is someone was sitting on that. So every time he'd set that pawn on fire, the fire would be put out, and repeat a million times while pawn got progressively more and more burned :)
It was funny.
In the end I forbade research until the pyro stopped burning and then executed him for crimes against the colony.
What I find absolutely unbearable is the micromanagement it enforces. Whenever a pyromaniac breaks - and they break no matter the mood - you need to draft other colonists and keep them on standby, following the pyromaniac around and neutralizing him. And you have to do it very diligently.
In last game, I had two pyromaniac builders returning from a poison ship sabotage. One of them had mental break on the way back, and started fires in winter. Then before my colonists could go back and rest, the second pyromaniac had a break in the same area. A few hours later, I noticed that a steel wall of ancient danger room is burning. I *could* draft my colonists again and arrive in time to extinguish it with people who barely had some sleep, except... at this point I decided fuck it. They make the game unbearable. I have to babysit them. So instead I just watched the wall burn, release 2 scythers and 2 centipedes with heavy charge blasters. Now it was a melee colony, so I set up an ambush and meleed scythers to death. But that would be too simple. My pyromaniac, one of the 2 that had a break, started another break and ran right in front of scythers, so I had to ambush them early. He got a nasty wound and lost a jaw, other colonists got wounds. Then the pyromaniac ran in front of 2 heavy charge blasters. I was frustrated at this point and rushed 2 centipedes in melee, they killed my colonists, pyromaniac woke up so I drafted him and made him charge the centipedes, because I wanted to see him die. Yup, I threw away a tribal colony which achieved 5 devilstrand dusters in the first year.
Pyromaniacs make me want not to play the game. And now imagine something like that when you have two colonies. It's a micromanagement nightmare, Rimworld turned into paperwork. And they don't even have 'catharsis' or similar cooldown period, so it doesn't matter it usually last a short while. It can't be ignored and it happens pretty often.
I would tolerate it if they had lower mental break threshold and their soft break was changed to firestarter. Then I could prevent many mental breaks by giving the guy preferential treatment, and that would involve many of the game's systems like comfort, food, beauty. Chemical interest and fascination are similar, but not so terrible. They don't require excessive micromanagement when they break, they stay at home, your doctor will automatically rescue them and at worst they can hurt themselves by overdosing.