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Ok, I like challenges like the next guy... but one thing is a challenge, another thing is <this>...

alpha 12, new colony, randy extreme NO MODS!

6 month into the game, just barely managed to get half a dozen turrets and sun lamps running without draining batteries too much, only 5 colonists... 1 warg, 2 cows, 1 husky

toxic fallout, followed by 3 (!!!) poison ships, followed by one evil ship. all in less than a week of gametime

i haven't even got decent weapons yet, even less so train some1 to better shooting...

and now mechanoids are even more OP as their AI has been improved. if you try to snipe them, they actually move away now. whileas their accuracy, speed and fire rate still seems 1000% better than any of my guys, they just need to shoot you once and you are DEAD.
not to mention the fact that they stay at 1% hp for AGES before actually dying, if you actually manage to hit them.

i chose randy extreme for a challenge, not to be kicked out of a plane without a chute and the final words "have fun"

so, anyone noticed excessive increased difficulty to kill mechanoids early in game (without mods!)?

no need to tell me all your fancy strategies and tricks, mods, exploits or whatever to kill them, just let me know if you think they are too OP now or not.

Hmm, Poison Ship poisons ground. I wonder if hydroponics are affected ?

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 04:09:12 PM
Hmm, Poison Ship poisons ground. I wonder if hydroponics are affected ?

totally relevant and helpful, thx

Clearly don't seem to like challenges all that much when Randy -Random- on a high difficulty to inflate enemy counts throws you a curveball.

Also they stay at 1% HP forever. Last I checked, they don't bleed nor eat nor can they heal. They keep whatever damage they take. I've had crippled mechanoids squirm on the ground for several in-game months before noticing them still moving around and sending someone to go turn them off.

Mechanoids are always gonna be better than colonists in typical 1 to 1 combat and if you've only got 5 colonists and there's more than just the one Centipede, you'll be in for a fun time. The accuracy of the Centipedes barely matters to them because of how Rimworld's combat works. They either don't need to hit with their AoE flamethrower or they put so many rounds in the air with their charge blasters and miniguns that something will hit regardless. Scythers are a bit more balanced in that regard as they only put out a single shot, but they do meaty damage and Charge Lances are one of the only weapons, if not the only weapon that actually gets better accuracy at range.

Yes the mechs are more demanding in alpha 12...

Cassandra rough, to learn all the new content, I am at day 135, and this will be my 2 round of poison ships, which I dispatched, and now I have my 2nd evil ship... I only have 5 colonists, alive, have lost 4 to infections, battle deaths.

I have found the difficulty to be more extreme, even on Cassandra with all the changes to crop growing, and medical treatments.

(http://wstaw.org/m/2015/08/23/centipede.png)
Also works against charge blaster and inferno cannon. Scythers are by far the most dangerous, unless you're caught without a personal shield in early game. Personal shield in cover makes an amazing decoy.

Does anyone know if Painstopper makes a colonist ignore burning ?

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 04:44:48 PM
(http://wstaw.org/m/2015/08/23/centipede.png)
Also works against charge blaster and inferno cannon. Scythers are by far the most dangerous, unless you're caught without a personal shield in early game.

Does anyone know if Painstopper makes a colonist ignore burning ?

1) screen shot shows a poison ship, which usually is easier than evil ship
2) 3 guys with charge rifles? dude, the best thing i got is a aweful sniper rifle and a shotgun. shields? never seen one in this first 6 month
and bonus:
3) previous toxic fallout took out all the trees, there's barely any cover

The full screenshot is from January 7, 5501, on Randy Random Challenge (100%).

A poison ship is easier than psychic ship... that's why there are two. Or three. The first time they come there are two poison ships. Then three and each containing more mechanoids. And your reward is measly 140 silver per part. I've had a colony still more or less functioning with extreme psychic ship (-50 mood), because they don't break all the time. But when they shut down your plants, you're left without food and medicine.

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 04:55:51 PM
The full screenshot is from January 7, 5501, on Randy Random Challenge (100%).

A poison ship is easier than psychic ship... that's why there are two. Or three. The first time they come there are two poison ships. Then three and each containing more mechanoids. And your reward is measly 140 silver per part. I've had a colony still more or less functioning with extreme psychic ship (-50 mood), because they don't break all the time. But when they shut down your plants, you're left without food and medicine.

did you even read my opening post?

1 toxic fallout,  3 poison ship, 1 evil ship ALL AT ONCE and before even 6 month into the game.

it wouldn't be such a big deal, if it wasn't for the improved scyther AI, which now moves away/close to snipers and with 100000000000000% (ran out of more zeros) accuracy, fire rate and range

like i said, one thing is wanting a challenge (hence randy extreme) and a totally different thing is getting kicked out of a plane without a parachute.

Well it's called extreme, isn't it ?
Does this happen consistently, or just a random fluke ? Does every game on extreme has this sort of first 6 months ?

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 05:09:31 PM
Well it's called extreme, isn't it ?
Does this happen consistently, or just a random fluke ? Does every game on extreme has this sort of first 6 months ?

if i don't manage to save this colony, i'll find out with a new one xD

Quote from: zandadoum on August 23, 2015, 05:14:56 PM

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 05:09:31 PM
Well it's called extreme, isn't it ?
Does this happen consistently, or just a random fluke ? Does every game on extreme has this sort of first 6 months ?

if i don't manage to save this colony, i'll find out with a new one xD

I've had things like 3 raids within two days. Admittedly, I was asking for it because one of them was caused by me taking a refugee. Sometimes it's really rough, but cases like this are rare for me.

Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to review the poison ship balance. It may be too hard - or it may be ok. You are on Randy Extreme. Not really supposed to be that survivable.

Quote from: Tynan on August 23, 2015, 05:58:13 PM
Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to review the poison ship balance. It may be too hard - or it may be ok. You are on Randy Extreme. Not really supposed to be that survivable.

In all fairness, I haven't encountered too much trouble with the poison ship itself. yes, I got 3 at the same time, but I didn't notice any huge impact really, maybe because they were far away from my base and crops (big map)
Also, they do spawn less mechanoids, right?

However the problem is the mechanoids themselves. IMO they are stupidly powerfull. Too huge range, too huge fire rate, too much damage and now, improved AI to counter sniper rifles it seems.
This is a huge problem when you get mechanoids early in the game.

The difference early game and late game is just the amount of mechanoids you get.
I think this should be changed, because 1-3 mechanoids in the first 6 month can totally ruin you because they are so OP.
I'd like to suggest to keep the numbers the same, but
1) make them easier to kill early game
2) make them spawn less times (even if you're playing randy extreme) in the first year

toxic fallout + 3 poison ships + 1 evil ship (with more mechanoids than I have colonist!) all at the same time and within the first 6 month? that shouldn't happen regardless what storyteller and difficulty you play. that's not a challenge, that's not fun.

Like I said, I do want a challenge, but when things get stupid like that, I just reload a previous save (over and over if needed) to get a different event. And where's the fun in that?

Quote from: zandadoum on August 23, 2015, 06:12:55 PM
toxic fallout + 3 poison ships + 1 evil ship (with more mechanoids than I have colonist!) all at the same time and within the first 6 month? that shouldn't happen regardless what storyteller and difficulty you play. that's not a challenge, that's not fun.

Well. I don't agree with your conclusion.

If I disallowed certain combinations, he wouldn't be random any more. He'd just be another rubber-banded AI storyteller similar to Cassandra. But he's Randy Random, which is exactly what it says on the tin.

Where's the fun in that? It's in the fact that the system doesn't coddle you at all. Outcomes are true. It's fun if you're willing to just play out a scenario to death and let the drama unfold. Not everyone likes this, but some do.

If you want a balanced, steady, consistent storyteller experience, we have that. Cassandra can be hard as hell, but she won't do anything ridiculously out of line. Randy is exactly what his name suggests and I think playskool-izing him would just take away options to replace them with something the game already offers.

Quote from: Tynan on August 23, 2015, 06:17:18 PM

Quote from: zandadoum on August 23, 2015, 06:12:55 PM
toxic fallout + 3 poison ships + 1 evil ship (with more mechanoids than I have colonist!) all at the same time and within the first 6 month? that shouldn't happen regardless what storyteller and difficulty you play. that's not a challenge, that's not fun.

Well. I don't agree with your conclusion.

If I disallowed certain combinations, he wouldn't be random any more. He'd just be another rubber-banded AI storyteller similar to Cassandra. But he's Randy Random, which is exactly what it says on the tin.

Where's the fun in that? It's in the fact that the system doesn't coddle you at all. Outcomes are true. It's fun if you're willing to just play out a scenario to death and let the drama unfold. Not everyone likes this, but some do.

If you want a balanced, steady, consistent storyteller experience, we have that. Cassandra can be hard as hell, but she won't do anything ridiculously out of line. Randy is exactly what his name suggests and I think playskool-izing him would just take away options to replace them with something the game already offers.

can we NOT focus here on the storyteller or all what he threw at me, and go back to what i originally am trying to say:
mechanoids are (imo) overpowered. for more info, read all i said in my previous messages in this post.

and while i got your attention, something from previous alpha (don't know if this was changed in this alpha)
triple rocket launchers same or more range than a sniper rifle and quicker aiming? working as intended?

I don't think they are OP on rough or challenge level of difficulty. Just wait until you have EMP grenades to disturb the ship, then its merely a battle you need to approach carefully (although you're screwed if your grenadier dies!).

Also don't have much sympathy for those on Randy Extreme...

Mechanoids are difficult, aye, but get some good cover, or some EMP grenades, and it's all a matter of getting your colonists into a position before the fight. The best thing about ship parts is that you dictate when the battle starts. So, you can fight for a bit, take care of one ship, or a few mechs, retreat and heal, then mop up the next ship or the remaining mechs, you don't have to gung ho them all at once. And the best part is those mechs won't really chase you down, you run the hell away and they'll linger around their ship.

Sigh.

Mechanoids are not OP.
Some people just don't know how to fight them/ can't accept they are superior alien forces yet.

That is all.

Quote from: christhekiller on August 23, 2015, 06:58:24 PM
Mechanoids are difficult, aye, but get some good cover, or some EMP grenades, and it's all a matter of getting your colonists into a position before the fight. The best thing about ship parts is that you dictate when the battle starts. So, you can fight for a bit, take care of one ship, or a few mechs, retreat and heal, then mop up the next ship or the remaining mechs, you don't have to gung ho them all at once. And the best part is those mechs won't really chase you down, you run the hell away and they'll linger around their ship.

please read my previous posts
1) as stated in my previous posts, this happened so early i didnt have weapons, emp and not even cover due a toxic fallout.
2) their AI has been improved in alpha 12. scythers now react way too good against snipers. they move out of range so you can't hit them and then they quickly come close and shoot your sniper while he is still moving back. add to this that they have way to good accuracy, fire rate and damage... and you're screwed. regardless on what difficulty
3) they also have too much hp and stay at around 1hp (before you down them i mean) for ages. it takes 1 full day for 4 of my guys to kill ONE mechanoid. mechanoids aren't affected by psicological effects or exaustion, so yeah. you're screwed again. and don't you take too long to kill the ship or your colonists will go crazy and kill each other
4) which gets me to the next point: yes, they do linger around their ship. yes you can prepare (if it's a ship and not a raid), but now they reposition too well to "easily" kill them. and once the ship goes down to (i think it is) 500hp, they stop lingering and attack your base

all nice and dandy. all fun... unless it's in the first 6 month, you haven't got any weapons yet, much less EMP grenades and you just came out of a toxic fallout.

oh and about EMP grenades: absolutely useless when you get the mechanoids with rocket launchers. your guy will have died TWICE before he can even throw one of those grenades.

i have put hundrets of hours into this game, for plenty of alphas.
i have tried all storytellers and difficulties, i have played vanilla and with mods, i have used plenty of strategies to deal with mechanoids...

and the ONLY gripe, the ONLY thing that pisses me off over and over and over... are how OP mechanoids are.

Quote from: Elixiar on August 23, 2015, 07:12:11 PM
Sigh.

Mechanoids are not OP.
Some people just don't know how to fight them/ can't accept they are superior alien forces yet.

That is all.

please enlighten me... how do you fight 3 poison ships (3 mechs each, if opened) + 1 evil ship (7 mechs if opened) right after a toxic fallout, when only 6 month into the game, your only weapons are a sniper rifle and a shotgun, you only have 5 colonists and a warg, barely any cover due trees dying in the fallout... and all this BEFORE the evil ship drives your colonists crazy?

but as said, never mind the evil ships. never mind alpha 12. never mind early game.
my gripe with mechanoids comes a long way, even in previous alphas.

late game, 10 years into it. 40 colonists well geared, happy, etc. base with defenses both outside and inside.
mechanoid raid right on top of my base. around 20 scythers, 15ish big guys. half of those with inferno launchers.
EMP grenades? riiiight. their rocket launchers have like 3x the range of grenades.
(emp) mortars? i did mention, they dropped right on top of us, right?

and i could go on and on and on...

every single time someone came with a late game screenshot on how he "easily" destroyed gazillions of mechanoids, every single time they had mods on like the one with huge shield dome over your base, improved turrets and guns and whatnot.

You re not supposed to beat it? Sometimes it just doesnt work out, thats what you get when you re playing randy random, hes more rogue-like than any other storyteller.

Sniper rifles still outrange scythers and inferno cannons, you just need to be really careful and run when you get too close to the ship scythers, a pawn with normal movement speed can always get out of range without taking fire, provided you tried to engage them from max range.

Hey Ty, I have to say I also think they are overpowered. I was playing Cassandra classic on Rough. Previous games I was challenged, but not as much as in A12. Raids were hard, but controllable with tactics and a few trained dogs. But I got 2 poisonous ship events in the first year. And I had to take them out ASAP because otherwise I wouldn't be able to get enough food for the winter.

They were so powerful that they often 'one shot, one kill'ed me. When the second event came, I had no other use to use all advantages the game gave:
- Building a solar panel with a few turrets
- Luring one Mechanoid at a time into combat
- Colonist with shield who runs from cover to cover to distract him
- Colonist with grenades and hit & run tactics
- A LOT of SAVE RELOADS

I don't mind using advanced tactics like this, but it was just too much and not really enjoyable anymore. What I suggest: Less poisonous ships (first only one, afterwards maybe two) and Mechanoids getting injured due to the crash (so their handling is hopefully worse)

Also, I get that the game sometimes want you to lose. But I just feel like they are a bit overpowered and I would have to use savegame reloading way too often while I encounter poisonous ships, even if I start new games.

Unless you play Randy random extreme. Let that sun of a muffalo f*ck you up big time. That's the purpose of this story teller. ;D

I've made a bit of an adjustment so you won't get really early mechanoid ships any more.

There goes my early cash :'(

To answer your question:

I don't think mechanoids are OP. I don't have too much of a problem with them as I rarely encounter them in huge numbers. What I have a gripe with is how damage sponge-y they feel. The centipedes specifically.

Also it pretty much sounds like Randy just caught you with your pants down and screwed you over in that save.

Mechaniods are easy once you have shields and frag grenades. You use the same tactic used in the picture, but since the grenades damage MULTIPLE Mechaniod "Organs" they are garenteed to hit something critical every time. Unlike a pulse rifle, which always seems to hit "Fifth Body Ring" or "Right Senser Port".

I find 4 guys with grenades while one or two shielded people distract can kill a Mechaniod in one volley. Six or more will vaporize the corpse. Adding in some turrets also helps as it gives the mechs something else to shoot at.

Quote from: zandadoum on August 23, 2015, 04:06:31 PMtoxic fallout, followed by 3 (!!!) poison ships, followed by one evil ship. all in less than a week of gametime

Seems like bad luck, which is good part of fun. But...

This new poison ship event is so much frustrating. For a start I did not realised, that there was few of them in the same event. I hardly beat one of them and then saw another two (and wanted to quit). Had to leave them be for almost a year.

After two events like this (and toxic fallout... and volcanic winter) my arid shrubland looks more dead than desert. In the middle it has just NOTHING. Just no grass and no trees (except planted by me). And for my opinion this is just plain stupid. How is this even possible? How does it kill plants, but not colonists and animals? Why there are no dead trees to harvest after? What is the purpose of such machine? Too many questions.

I really want to see some changes with mechanoids. There are too much things, that I do not like. Not because they are hard to beat (which is good for this game), but because they are annoying, frustrating and gamebraking. I do not like:
- Inferno centipedes (WHY they are 1000% more deadly than other centipedes? Are they some special kind of centipedes? I can just hide behind rock from minigun/blaster, but single inferno will turn up the table for me. Looks more like balance issue.)
- Just the whole "ship part" thing. Do not like the idea of stationary defenseless thing. Do not like random mechanoids instantly spawning around it out of nowhere. Do not like, that it can lay down forever and never go away. Do not like that it is always the same part. And there are no smart tactical way to beat it, but only the ways with straight brutal force. Do not like "magical bad mood and killing plants" part (just want it be less out-of-nowhere magic and more justified, explained and giving choices).
- This new poison ship. Beign just the same "evil" part, but green (even with the same mechanoids inside)... it is just bad design decision IMO.
- Only two (three with inferno?) types of mechanoids. IMO it is obvious that for reasons of balance there should be more types of them both for less and more challenge provision.
- Scythers in A12. Something broke on the way. In A11 they was OK, but now they are too much rapey.
- No mechanoids-fighting weapons presented in game. Do I really must fight tanks centipedes with common firearms? How about some special AT weapons? This would be only fair.
- EMP grenades is a joke againts mechanoids. Never used them with success even though they look just like the right weapon for the cause.

I think evil ships can be very beneficial early game. If you can take it out, the AI core is a SUBSTANTIAL reward when you are just starting out. Just keep a couple mortars going 24/7 for a week or two to soften them up and attack when you're ready. Heck, you might get a couple lucky shots early on that disables most of the mechs early on.

Quote from: Bohb Daishi on August 23, 2015, 09:13:49 PM
I think evil ships can be very beneficial early game. If you can take it out, the AI core is a SUBSTANTIAL reward when you are just starting out. Just keep a couple mortars going 24/7 for a week or two to soften them up and attack when you're ready. Heck, you might get a couple lucky shots early on that disables most of the mechs early on.

Reward is not so SUBSTANTIAL, when you invest in mortars tech, building mortars and buying shells. And this 24/7 work in the long run can cost you more, than straight forward attack. Both in casualties and in invested resources.

Not looking like good way to solve problem for me. Sad that there are almost no alternatives.

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 04:09:12 PM
Hmm, Poison Ship poisons ground. I wonder if hydroponics are affected ?

They are.  There does seem to be a max range on the poison ship though, so if you are on a large map they may have little to no effect.

And more to the point of the OP.  I agree mechs are too strong.  Not that I'm against a challenge, or that I think they're impossible to fight.  But often the difficulty scaling in mech fights really limits most people to cheese plays and frustration.

I think a moderate rebalance, and addition of some items to help counter mechs would be reasonable.

I'd have to disagree, while in most instances a killbox handles every occasion, Mechanoids pose a threat that requires you to go to them, and as such, fight on previously unknown ground.

Yes they're difficult at times, but a mix of tactics can overcome them with little losses, provided they land anywhere near a cliff face, if it's out in the open you're probably buggered.

The mechanoids are really manageable early game if you get EMP grenades. I want to echo though that sometimes they feel too "spongy", since your colonists can hit them many times without hitting anything critical, and it makes fighting them with early weapons a little tedious sometimes. I also want to echo that explosives are the way to go, if you can get EMP and frag grenades from raiders/combat suppliers then you will be good to go. I suppose alternatively you could put deadfall traps around it and savescum until you get RNG that instakills them.

Quote from: Barley on August 23, 2015, 08:56:45 PM
Mechaniods are easy once you have shields and frag grenades. You use the same tactic used in the picture, but since the grenades damage MULTIPLE Mechaniod "Organs" they are garenteed to hit something critical every time. Unlike a pulse rifle, which always seems to hit "Fifth Body Ring" or "Right Senser Port".

I find 4 guys with grenades while one or two shielded people distract can kill a Mechaniod in one volley. Six or more will vaporize the corpse. Adding in some turrets also helps as it gives the mechs something else to shoot at.

sounds nice... except grenades are ranged and you can't use shields + grenades. so basically, you just made that up, right?

Quote from: Bohb Daishi on August 23, 2015, 09:13:49 PM
I think evil ships can be very beneficial early game. If you can take it out, the AI core is a SUBSTANTIAL reward when you are just starting out. Just keep a couple mortars going 24/7 for a week or two to soften them up and attack when you're ready. Heck, you might get a couple lucky shots early on that disables most of the mechs early on.

1) you make more money selling human meat and leather (if you have a psycopath or cannibal  cook)
2) you do realize that mortars have to be manned? and that they use ammo?

Quote from: Tynan on August 23, 2015, 05:58:13 PM
Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to review the poison ship balance. It may be too hard - or it may be ok. You are on Randy Extreme. Not really supposed to be that survivable.

While we're at it, please give Poison Ship some visual indication. When it crashed, I thought it was bugged because it didn't seem to do anything. I thought it was some broken alpha feature. Then it came later in the game, and one part crashed in my courtyard. I knew there would be more mechanoids this time, so I built IED traps around it and peppered the area with shells. Soon my crops started dying before fully maturing.
But my point is, it felt very stealthy. I didn't see any indication that ground is poisoned or that it reached my hothouse. Unlike with toxic fallout, the ground looks the same. I watched colonist health for any sight of fallout-like sickness, too. Some visual effect would be very nice, or maybe status effect on plants.

Silent but deadly? Does the poison ship contain fart from a thousand worlds or something?

Quote from: zandadoum on August 24, 2015, 02:23:34 AM
sounds nice... except grenades are ranged and you can't use shields + grenades. so basically, you just made that up, right?

What he is saying is that he has people with shields distracting the mechanoids while people with frag grenades throw grenades at them.

zandadoum:
If you don't change your attitude soon, this thread is going to be locked. The last time I've seen something like this was in the "Sappers are unfair because they see through rock" thread. You take a position, keep repeating it and seemingly want to bend everyone to your will. You don't want a discussion or to hear opinions of other people, you want others to just take yours. As with the sappers, other people are able to deal with the challenge, but not you.

"After a toxic fallout" - means you can build walls for cover, even out of wood.
You keep saying "mechanoids", whereas you're talking about Scythers.
I've never had a sniper get shot by a scyther if he was micromanaged, even a Slowpoke one. Yes, a scyther will chase you, yes, it's faster, but it won't chase you forever. Pretty soon the scyther starts going back to the ship, and you're free to turn around and shoot it. This is more difficult to do with a survival rifle, but possible. Scythers are deadly, but fragile.

There are no mechanoids with rocket launchers. That's Inferno Cannon. By itself, it's not lethal and it almost never causes lost limbs. And Personal Shield is a hard counter to it. It has less range than Survival Rifle.

If you insist on others "telling you" (you are not, you just want others to be infected with your opinion), give more information. Screenshots of the ship site and mechanoids that jumped out. Screenshots of your colonists. I bet there are many things you're not telling us, they would come up on screenshots and could be used to handle the situation.

"Only 6 months into the game" means they will contain very little mechanoids each. Maybe not in absolute terms, but relative to other Extreme challenges. I mean, when I had a manhunter pack on day 3 it was ONE warg.

Maybe you should review your strategy. Approach the game as you would an Ice Sheet map. Build Research Table in your first room, rush researching Hydroponics or something else. Even if poison ship poisons hydroponics, they would help because it would be easier to sneak some plants past (rice) with premature harvest.

Triple Rocket Launcher is survivable. Either have a fast colonist far away constantly moving (a shield helps!), or lead him to a turret (better to lose 150 steel than a colonist). One thing I want to try is to train a squirrel for release and throw it at him. In late game, psychic lances are not terribly expensive (900 silver) and will take out a guy with triple rocket launcher. Sniper rifles are not a reliable solution. Sniper rifles have looong cooldown, and you may be unable to react in time. Taking pot shots with survival rifle seems better, and jump behind wall if you see the rocket dude turn around to you.

A ship dropping into your base means you can spam IED traps around it. A few IED traps, the rest just bare shells for chain reaction. You forbid all steel on the map and order them to build IEDs. Then you cancel construction and forbid shells. 10 years into the game you should have a nice supply, I mean they're 8 silver each at combat supplier. An exploding shell doesn't care how many mechanoids jumped out, it will hit all in range.

Mechanoids in drop pods directly - if we're talking 10 years, that's enough time to dig into a mountain. Or create a secondary base as a shelter! Or maybe your base design SUCKED, you didn't post a screenshot.

It boggles my mind why you're playing Randy Random Extreme if you're so unable to adapt or take ideas from others.

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 24, 2015, 02:30:46 AM

Quote from: Tynan on August 23, 2015, 05:58:13 PM
Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to review the poison ship balance. It may be too hard - or it may be ok. You are on Randy Extreme. Not really supposed to be that survivable.

While we're at it, please give Poison Ship some visual indication. When it crashed, I thought it was bugged because it didn't seem to do anything. I thought it was some broken alpha feature. Then it came later in the game, and one part crashed in my courtyard. I knew there would be more mechanoids this time, so I built IED traps around it and peppered the area with shells. Soon my crops started dying before fully maturing.
But my point is, it felt very stealthy. I didn't see any indication that ground is poisoned or that it reached my hothouse. Unlike with toxic fallout, the ground looks the same. I watched colonist health for any sight of fallout-like sickness, too. Some visual effect would be very nice, or maybe status effect on plants.

Don't they create snow around them? I thought they created snow around them, though I may just be insane.

And OP, I get that you're mad because you hit a brick wall and couldn't beat a situation the game put you in. But that is exactly what Randy Random (especially on the extreme difficulty) is. You might just run into 500 Mechanoids that you can't possibly defeat, or you might get a whole herd of cows and just tons of free food, and puppies to cuddle you as you sleep. It's Randy Random for a reason. The difficulty is extreme for a reason. The description for Randy is literally "He doesn't care if it's a story of triumph or utter hopelessness." Try Cassandra Classic or Phoebe Friendly, or maybe even try the Basebuilder difficulty. You won't hit brick walls there <3

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 24, 2015, 03:10:26 AM
zandadoum:
If you don't change your attitude soon, this thread is going to be locked.

then don't just conveniently ignore what i say when i am prooving you wrong.

Quote
"After a toxic fallout" - means you can build walls for cover, even out of wood.

yeah, coz there are any trees around to chop after a toxic fallout, hum? duh~

Quote
You keep saying "mechanoids", whereas you're talking about Scythers.
I've never had a sniper get shot by a scyther if he was micromanaged, even a Slowpoke one. Yes, a scyther will chase you, yes, it's faster, but it won't chase you forever. Pretty soon the scyther starts going back to the ship, and you're free to turn around and shoot it. This is more difficult to do with a survival rifle, but possible. Scythers are deadly, but fragile.
There are no mechanoids with rocket launchers. That's Inferno Cannon. By itself, it's not lethal and it almost never causes lost limbs. And Personal Shield is a hard counter to it. It has less range than Survival Rifle.

Scythers are mechanoids, your point is?
Scythers: OP due too much range, accuracy, fire rate and now improved AI that makes target Scyther run away from sniper while other Scythers close in to kill Sniper. have you even played alpha12? doesn't seem like it to me. yes, it can be micromanaged, but you'll never kill anything and die.
Centipedes: OP due Inferno Cannon having too much range and too big fire area. it catches colonists on fire ALWAYS and makes EMP grenades totally useless because it's OP range

Using shield means that colonist will have to go melee. and shields last ONE salvo from 5 mechanoids together. regardless their type and weapon.
one AGAIN: i am not talking late game here, i am talking early game. you probably won't even have a shield yet.

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"Only 6 months into the game" means they will contain very little mechanoids each. Maybe not in absolute terms, but relative to other Extreme challenges. I mean, when I had a manhunter pack on day 3 it was ONE warg.

can you read? i already explained that i actually got more mechanoids than colonist from that one evil ship. i had 5 colonists and a warg at that time.

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If you insist on others "telling you" (you are not, you just want others to be infected with your opinion), give more information. Screenshots of the ship site and mechanoids that jumped out. Screenshots of your colonists. I bet there are many things you're not telling us, they would come up on screenshots and could be used to handle the situation.

i already "infected" with my opinion apparently. other users have reported and complained the same issues and Tynan even said he tweaked the game (next alpha I guess) so less ship events can happen during early game.
so, maybe... just MAYBE, i was actually right, hum?

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It boggles my mind why you're playing Randy Random Extreme if you're so unable to adapt or take ideas from others.

it boggles my mind that you are unable to listen to other peoples opinion (not just my own) and that even Tynan said it will be tweaked, but here you go, just because you were "lucky" so far (have you even played on randy extreme?) doesn't mean it's working flawlessly for everyone else.

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"After a toxic fallout" - means you can build walls for cover, even out of wood.

yeah, coz there are any trees around to chop after a toxic fallout, hum? duh~

Steel maybe ? Doesn't rot. One square of compacted gives you 5 squares of cover wall. You're acting like you're hopeless.
You say 6 months in. What were you doing in those 6 months ? Stonecutting is 300 research, I managed to survive ice sheet by researching 700 in my first room.

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Scythers are mechanoids, your point is?

You're treating all mechanoids like they're all the same. In discussion with you, you keep moving goalposts all the time. This is intelectually dishonest. To loosely paraphrase:
"Snipe them" - "No, they have extreme range and are 10000000% accurate!"
"Shoot them from cover" - "No, they shoot you with rocket launchers!"
blah blah blah. There are different kinds of mechanoids and not all of them are present all the time. Usually there is a hole in their composition, something you can exploit.

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Scythers: OP due too much range, accuracy, fire rate and now improved AI that makes target Scyther run away from sniper while other Scythers close in to kill Sniper. have you even played alpha12? doesn't seem like it to me. yes, it can be micromanaged, but you'll never kill anything and die.

I'm currently playing pre-release 12.905, so it's safe to say I've played A12 for a while. I've used the tactic I described with success. And yes, sniper rifle can take a while especially if your shooter has crap skill. Survival rifle is more consistent. Sometimes it's better to lure single scythers away and hit them with two or three guys. One sniper, one survival rifle (in cover). What scythers don't have is extreme rate of fire. They can shoot only one colonist at the time. If you're expecting getting hit, bring more colonists to use that time as well as possible. Scythers are glass cannons, they're surprisingly fragile.

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Centipedes: OP due Inferno Cannon having too much range and too big fire area. it catches colonists on fire ALWAYS and makes EMP grenades totally useless because it's OP range

27 tiles to be precise. 10 less than survival rifle. But I get it - you can't outrun a centipede because it chases too fast. I'm honestly starting to fear Minigun the most (after scythers) because it has almost as much as survival rifle, 32 tiles vs 27.

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Using shield means that colonist will have to go melee. and shields last ONE salvo from 5 mechanoids together. regardless their type and weapon.

Bullshit. You don't have to attack in melee, you can just park a shielder in cover. Scythers might be able to shoot through shield, that's why I try to take them out first. But anyone else, just single stray bullets.
Tell you what, I even used ranged weapons with shields. The last time I used a colonist with a shield and EMP grenades. He waited in cover, closed in, dropped the shield and threw the grenade. He got hit once and lost an eye (which had a cataract), but that was solely because of my error, I didn't notice there was a scyther in there as well. Anyway the grenade hit two inferno centipedes and a scyther.

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one AGAIN: i am not talking late game here, i am talking early game. you probably won't even have a shield yet.

Maybe don't attack a ship in early game ? Nutrient paste dispenser and you should live. Animals may be gone, but I managed to harvest early rice under the effect of poison ship. Less that maximum per plant, but it worked. Eventually animals for hunting should show up. Even if some colonists will periodically starve, it takes a looong time to die from starvation, and -25 mood is not the end of the world.

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can you read? i already explained that i actually got more mechanoids than colonist from that one evil ship. i had 5 colonists and a warg at that time.

No, I can't read.

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with my opinion apparently. other users have reported and complained the same issues and Tynan even said he tweaked the game (next alpha I guess) so less ship events can happen during early game.
so, maybe... just MAYBE, i was actually right, hum?

Some people share your view, but judging by their opinion they're whiny and uninformed like you. You're treating others like idiots, but you are the one acting hopeless.
For example:

QuoteBut I got 2 poisonous ship events in the first year. . And I had to take them out ASAP because otherwise I wouldn't be able to get enough food for the winter.

There is no requirement to stockpile food for winter. My tundra colony had a hothouse (soil + sunlamp) and there was a poison ship right outside the wall. I had to manually harvest immature rice at 70ish growth, but that was enough for nutrient paste dispenser. Besides, that guy said nothing of toxic fallout, which means there were some animals to hunt. I survived on squirrels.
Be prepared. If you see mufallos, maybe you should kill them all in advance. When snow falls, they're going to get hungry and leave. And you'll be eating bark off the trees.

My current 12.905 colony started with one brawler navy scientist (good medic) with no passion for melee, two guys who had bad back + frail (and one of them had two cataracts). And a labrador. Movement speed around 1.40 . Do you want a savegame ? I made one right at the start. Now my colony is humming nicely, both geezers have a pair of bionic legs and move at 80% percent, one bionic eye to go.
It's on Randy Random 100% (Challenge) because I'm a scrub.

Also I had a colonist call in for help immediately after a manhunter pack. I still managed to build a tunnel and rescue him when wargs downed him. He had a leg torn off, now has a bionic, and is a very valuable member of my colony.

There are rarely utterly hopeless situations in the game. Maybe you hit a brick wall, but someone else might have survived. Maybe someone else would have enjoyed it. I'm not even saying *I* would manage that, just another player. But you're campaigning to change the game for your own sake. How selfish.

If there are problems on Randy Random Extreme, maybe change Extreme, not mechanoids ?

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 24, 2015, 04:22:24 AM
It's on Randy Random 100% (Challenge) because I'm a scrub.

well mate, this just makes all your previous posts useless... there is an abysmall difference between challenge and extreme, specially so with randy.

but still, the problem are mechanoids. or maybe, mechanoids too early in the game.
but Tynan already said he'll adress that, so I guess we're done here.

anyways, in alpha 11 i had 20 normal raids before i got an evil ship (now called psychic ship), so i could be a bit more prepared. in alpha 12 i had (3rd savegame right now) a whopping sum of 5 human raids before i got 3 poison ships and a psychic ship. within the first year.

in my previous savegame there was a huge ancient structure i didn't dare to open (6 month into the game) guess what... flashstorm event, half the map burning, which burned down the walls and activated half a dozen mechanoids. at least those guys didn't do phychic waves and stayed there until i killed them.

your idea on NOT attacking the ship is also proof you're not playing on extreme... just 2 psychic waves from the ship in extreme and your colonist mental health is just not sustainable anymore.

I don't play on extreme ? So what ? Does that make you immune to logic ? I prefer more balanced games. Difficulty only seems to increase raid size. A solar flare still lasts one day.

There are other ways to handle the situation too. I saved one colony by calling a tribe for help. When they send warriors, that's extra decoys, and even a single club wielding tribal can distract an inferno cannon for a while (it stops shooting). If other mechanoids shoot him, that's friendly fire.
Or you can try to shoot the ship, not the mechanoids. Below 50% mechanoids will raid your base. Scythers run forward, separate themselves from the flock. And from horror movies we know what happens next. Then you kite centipedes with a survival rifle, especially inferno ones as they're the only ones that are really a threat to turrets.

Tynan, we need an autosave system that doesn't overwrite. If you don't make a save manually, you will end up with only late game autosaves. At least one initial autosave per colony. We would be a ble to share seemingly brutal situations via savegames and see if really no one else can beat it. At the moment, we're talking of changing game balance based on a sample of 1.

Quote from: christhekiller on August 24, 2015, 03:15:46 AM

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 24, 2015, 02:30:46 AM

Quote from: Tynan on August 23, 2015, 05:58:13 PM
Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to review the poison ship balance. It may be too hard - or it may be ok. You are on Randy Extreme. Not really supposed to be that survivable.

While we're at it, please give Poison Ship some visual indication. When it crashed, I thought it was bugged because it didn't seem to do anything. I thought it was some broken alpha feature. Then it came later in the game, and one part crashed in my courtyard. I knew there would be more mechanoids this time, so I built IED traps around it and peppered the area with shells. Soon my crops started dying before fully maturing.
But my point is, it felt very stealthy. I didn't see any indication that ground is poisoned or that it reached my hothouse. Unlike with toxic fallout, the ground looks the same. I watched colonist health for any sight of fallout-like sickness, too. Some visual effect would be very nice, or maybe status effect on plants.

Don't they create snow around them? I thought they created snow around them, though I may just be insane.

I recall the psyker parts emanating snow but having not played A12, I can't confirm poison parts doing the same. I imagine they would still do that, assuming Tynan used the psyker part as a base and repurposed parts of it. It's easy enough to test with debug, just call down a poison part.


As for OP, if you're six months into the game, surely you have some type of stone on hand. You're also playing Randy Random on Extreme. There CAN and inevitably WILL be times when Randy dicks you over and having the game on Extreme is what, 150-200% allowance to enemy spawning? At this stage, on a normal game, it should have been a maximum of 3 Scythers, or maybe a Centipede and a Scyther, if even that.

Quote from: Coenmcj on August 23, 2015, 10:17:39 PM
if it's out in the open you're probably buggered.

Hey Tynan, if you're still reading this mess of a thread, Mechanoids already disregard cover, why not adjust them so they actively seek to fight on open terrain with Centipedes working to sap bases so that they and Scythers can maintain their advantages of fire weapons and charge lances. We shall hear the lamentations of the colony's women yet! But seriously, Mechanoids are sometimes millenia old fighting machines that haven't learned from the garbled transmissions of destroyed units that CQC is a silly idea. That, or introduce a Scyther variant with Shredders (http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/18/17999/016.jpg) fitted to double up on close range power with spiked bodies and shotguns. And a Centipede with a flamer instead of a flamethrower.

Quote from: zandadoum on August 24, 2015, 04:36:19 AM
anyways, in alpha 11 i had 20 normal raids before i got an evil ship (now called psychic ship), so i could be a bit more prepared. in alpha 12 i had (3rd savegame right now) a whopping sum of 5 human raids before i got 3 poison ships and a psychic ship. within the first year.

I actually had pretty much this same experience minus the AI ship (on Cassandra Challenge). I thought I was doing pretty weapon-wise before it happened. It was only a few months (6 I think?) in and I had 3 normal-to-good survival rifles, a brawler with a good longsword, and a paramedic (who had nothing). I had no grenades, shields or heavy weapons, except an incendiary launcher but I don't think that counts. I managed the first poison ship part eventually but it took quite a bit of save-scumming and I still lost a guy. I just did the collapsing roof trick to get rid of the other two after that. There's only so much save-scumming a man can take!

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 24, 2015, 04:22:24 AM
There are different kinds of mechanoids and not all of them are present all the time. Usually there is a hole in their composition, something you can exploit.

I think if there is a problem with mechanoids, then this is it. Every other threat in the game can be handled basically the same way - grab a gun, take up position behind some cover, shoot things until the enemy retreats. You start shooting at mechanoids from behind some rocks and something (probably a scyther) is going to hit you - and when it hits you the odds are good that your colonist will go down or lose a limb, assuming he's not killed outright. This isn't helped by the fact that mechanoids never retreat and (from what I've seen) are rarely downed.

In my experience you've basically got three options when it comes to mechanoids:
- Cheese - like the collapsing roof trick.
- Killbox - which is less cheesy now that sappers are a thing. Mechanoids can't tunnel though, so still kinda cheesy.
- Micromanage the fight in the open, probably with the EMP grenades and shield as you've mentioned Borsuk.

There are probably other options, but typically speaking I've not managed to get anything but the above three to very well/consistently (IEDs around the ship part, mortars, call in help from other factions, rockets are all just a bit of a crapshoot).

The one area where mechanoids are definitely OP is if they drop in right on top of you and you have a colony in the open. No cheese option, they've probably bypassed your killbox, and micromanaging the fight in that situation where your colonists are likely scattered all to hell is going to be iffy at best. In my experience it's basically a game-over event. Even if you win the odds are you'll have taken casualties and a good portion of your base is probably heavily damaged if not destroyed, and then there's player fatigue. It's happened to me once or twice where I got to this point, finally managed to beat the mechanoids off, and then wondered why I don't restart and just tunnel into a mountain.

Thinking about it though, that might be a problem with open colonies rather than mechanoids.

Don't use rocks as cover if you can help it. They only offer something like 50% cover.  Sandbags are 60ish, walls the best at 75%. If you have to face them in the open, build walls.

I haven't actually built a proper mountain colony yet. So all my feedback is based on open colonies.

If there's a problem with mechanoids, it might be that they have too many resistances. They don't sleep, eat, bleed, or have morale. Their only weakness is EMP and shields. They are also utterly destroyed by warg police. They remind me of undead/demons in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, who also are immune to half the things in the game, making late game limited and monotonous. Maybe they could at least briefly short-circuit in the rain or snow ? For a few seconds.

Still, a charge lance has a warm-up of 2s plus cooldown of 2.8s. Several weapons, including pump shotgun, pistol, and charge rifle. That means if you have some hard cover (walls) you can take pot shots without risk of retaliation.

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 24, 2015, 07:01:28 AM
Don't use rocks as cover if you can help it. They only offer something like 50% cover.  Sandbags are 60ish, walls the best at 75%. If you have to face them in the open, build walls.

I haven't actually built a proper mountain colony yet. So all my feedback is based on open colonies.

If there's a problem with mechanoids, it might be that they have too many resistances. They don't sleep, eat, bleed, or have morale. Their only weakness is EMP and shields. They are also utterly destroyed by warg police. They remind me of undead/demons in Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, who also are immune to half the things in the game, making late game limited and monotonous.

Still, a charge lance has a warm-up of 2s plus cooldown of 2.8s. Several weapons, including pump shotgun, pistol, and charge rifle. That means if you have some hard cover (walls) you can take pot shots without risk of retaliation.

I do believe rock walls (the bits you mine into) offer the same cover as walls, or in the same ball park at the very least. The crashed ship part itself also provides some good cover. And if you're really hurting for cover I do believe (but don't quote me on this) that trees provide some very very very minimal cover. This is really just going off the fact that I see raiders take cover behind trees all the dang time.

But yeah, my general strategy is EMP the big guys, or as many as you can at once, focus take down Scythers (with all your guns trained on the Scythers they should go down reasonably quickly. Then just pick off the Centipede while they sit their relatively helpless.

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 24, 2015, 07:01:28 AM
Still, a charge lance has a warm-up of 2s plus cooldown of 2.8s. Several weapons, including pump shotgun, pistol, and charge rifle. That means if you have some hard cover (walls) you can take pot shots without risk of retaliation.

This is precisely the problem, as I mentioned above. Mechanoids require a huge amount of micromanagement in comparison to dealing with other threats. That makes them an absolute pain, especially if you don't have any advanced equipment, or don't know the various cheesy tricks (roof collapses, killboxes, this pop-in/pop-out cover thing) to deal with them. Simply setting up behind cover and shooting isn't enough with them. My money is that it's this switch in how to approach combat that makes them a major source of frustration.

Arguably, however, they should be this awkward and powerful. They're the end-game threat. So perhaps it might be better to leave the mechanoids as-is but push them into year 2+ event, and introduce some specifically anti-mechanoid gear. EMP IEDs, for example, would be a less awkward option than EMP grenades. Some anti-mechanoid rocket launchers or heavy rifles maybe? I don't know. I do know though that the current situation has this huge jump in difficulty from dealing with pirates/tribespeople/animals to dealing with mechanoids that is only possibly resolved by how willing the player is to micromanage and/or cheese his way to victory.

Unless the purpose of mechanoids is that you're meant to fall to them eventually? In that case they serve their purpose well enough, and they're designed to be OP. Which would be an interesting concept.

QuoteUnless the purpose of mechanoids is that you're meant to fall to them eventually? In that case they serve their purpose well enough, and they're designed to be OP. Which would be an interesting concept.

I think this is spot on. The game design at higher difficulties doesn't really encourage long plays - more like get the hell off this rock ASAP. That of course differs significantly with most players' colony goals, which essentially is to build an immortal city. The two naturally clash...

Quote from: Veneke on August 24, 2015, 08:41:00 AM
EMP IEDs, for example, would be a less awkward option than EMP grenades. Some anti-mechanoid rocket launchers or heavy rifles maybe? I don't know.

Having some sort of anti-materiel rifle could be good. Though I am biased, I prefer permanent options to one-time use options because permanent options are obviously always there, one-time uses have a stock and I suffer from "too good to use" syndrome. The only issue is that such a rifle is gonna be pretty meaty. Either it should be an accurate manned turret or an unwieldy weapon that takes time to set up and aim (this could be readily emulating with weapon warm-up and cooldown time which is already in-game and only mechanoid weapons really make use of it (Scythers taking 2 seconds to aim and cooldown after shots)). But what stops players just outfitting the colony with anti-materiel rifles? High cost to inflate wealth would just encourage the use of killboxes to combat the larger raids. I don't know if it's a thing yet, but I was thinking maybe describe such rifles as being without a scope despite their obviously long ranged use which, coupled with their bulkiness and clumsiness, means they're still reapers against large targets like Centipedes, Thrumbos (Thrumboes?) or Muffalo and should hit nearly every time against such things, but are notably worse than just using a sniper rifle against people-sized targets and "why are you even bothering?" levels of bad against boomrats and similarly small creatures. That could be enforced with a multiplier against body sizes so that the size of the target is much more relevant for these cumbersome weapons.

Alternatively, just go the Torgue route and use more explosions. Explosions fix everything.

Couple more difficulty levels?

More brutal sounding difficulty levels so folks feel bad ass even if they do ok on "normal and challenge" difficulty lolz.... Seriously don't forget to stroke your players egos :P

Imo 99% of us shouldn't even be giving the last difficulty a second look when looking for an actual challenge. Supposed to be for masochists who like to loose and can't get any challenge any other way aint it?

Maybe we've all just played the game to much and have accidentally turned into the hardcore crowd without  knowing it? Now we're the worst ones to listen to for game balancing advice haha.

Yall will prolly laugh but I think we need more mechs and enemy  types ..... yep even more enemies that would help ease the difficulty jumps when playing Cass and Phoebe specifically. If you don't like mechs and all you play is Randy Random..... seriously think about that argument for a second.

As long as the enemies all have viable counters then they shouldn't be imbalanced unless of course you decide that balancing the game around Randy RANDOM is somehow a good idea.  :-X

Quote from: FMJ Penguin on August 24, 2015, 12:20:06 PM
Yall will prolly laugh but I think we need more mechs and enemy  types

Yeah, more enemy types would be a welcome sight, especially if they can fill in that gap between tribals/pirates and mechanoids. What I've found is that the first few mechanoid events/raids are pretty hairy, and it's only when I've worked my way through some of these that I can finally get sufficiently good gear to combat them. A more gradual progression, and appropriate loot drops, would help things. Perhaps bionic-augmented humans, or a rogue military unit assaulting you with people fully kitted out in power armour? Something entirely new? There are lots of options here that can help bridge that gap.

Of course, this is all on the assumption that mechanoids are not designed to be OP. If they are then this kind of gradual build-up actively works against their intended function, which would be bad.

So yeah, Mechanoids are a bit of a jump. I can see how playing on Randy and you get mechanoids would be annoying, and you'd have to try and deal, because that's how it's supposed to be. Random. But I just lost a colony in the summer of year 2, on Phoebe/basebuilder to three poison drop pods. After just barely managing to survive a winter with little food in a boreal forest, and nothing but a couple raids of 1-2 guys with shivs. Suddenly, 3 pods, with a centipede and scyther each... it was a bit much. And one of the pods landed right smack dab in the middle of my fields, I had 4 turrets around it, so I tried having them shoot it. One centepede with a chain gun later, and all 4 turrets were dead, most of my livestock, and the geothermal plant I had just managed to build was toasted.

While I'm not sure people should complain about such things if they go for the more challenging modes, especially not with the random storyteller, and I could see Cassandra slowly building up to something like this... on Phoebe however, when I'm trying to figure out the new animal things... It was sudden, and felt very unbalanced.

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of *damaged* mechanoids short-circuiting in the rain and snow. They are not /that/ stupid not to protect themselves from rain, but when they have holes blown in them they become vulnerable.

I don't want to see any introductory mechanoid, especially not cyborgs that are pretty much humans. Keep mechanoids hard and unique. What they're missing for sure is a mechanoid that is vulnerable in melee.

The damaged idea would be kinda cool. Just thought of something else while reading the last couple posts....,

Most of the time the toughest enemies are found by going after them and exploring or found on your own time in nearly every game(actually can't even think of one where the player doesn't have to take some kind of action to run into the toughest baddies). Well I guess that doesn't happen here. Everything just rolls your way regardless.... prolly be different if we had to go looking for the big nasty kinda troubles.  Dunno, that may get old too. Just throwing stuff out there I guess haha

Also, I've never tried Phoebe. Is there much difference between her and Cass?

Yet another idea although it should prolly go in a diff forum haha.

Coms traffic watch. Leave a pawn actively sitting at coms "listening" and they have a chance to intercept incoming raider chatter and mech ships(justify it however). Maybe some forewarning would be enough to ease the difficulty spikes? "Eye captain, I hear raider chatter approx. eta 5 minutes give or take". "Eye Scotty, stfu and get off the coms we need to get ready".  I'm not a treky freak I swear   ;D

Honestly fixing the "shots through walls"  glitch would make them much more tolerable. This glitch makes fire fights SUBSTANTIALLY more difficult.

Quote from: FMJ Penguin on August 25, 2015, 12:14:47 AM
Yet another idea although it should prolly go in a diff forum haha.

Coms traffic watch. Leave a pawn actively sitting at coms "listening" and they have a chance to intercept incoming raider chatter and mech ships(justify it however). Maybe some forewarning would be enough to ease the difficulty spikes? "Eye captain, I hear raider chatter approx. eta 5 minutes give or take". "Eye Scotty, stfu and get off the coms we need to get ready".  I'm not a treky freak I swear   ;D

Great idea!

Someone also suggested researchers predicting eclipses and solar flares.

In absence of fog of war, maybe animals with good tracking skill could sense incoming enemies ? You know, like your dogs or squirrels are lurking in the area and warn you ?

I have to say. I was yesterday playing on cassandra rough, in my first summer I got a phsycic ship with a mech in it. I think they are Op.
Not because of their damage output, ( They do suck at hitting ) but cause of their rediculus amount of HP. I stood there for a long time. just fighting it untill I got killed,

Mechanoids themselves are OP IMHO and I've always thought this. Putting aside the quantity and timing of their arrival, I believe the problem at its core is a lack of counter weapon. There's also a lack of a non-exploitative strategy that doesn't require extreme battle micromanagement (which after a while isn't fun for me personally). One caveat is that I haven't played with mechanoids too much since the EMP adaptive bug was fixed where a secondary blast of an EMP near a disabled mechanoid would wake it and render it adapted. It seemed like EMPs were geared for this threat, but this bug interfered substantially.

Quote from: Bohb Daishi on August 23, 2015, 09:13:49 PM
Just keep a couple mortars going 24/7 for a week or two to soften them up and attack when you're ready. Heck, you might get a couple lucky shots early on that disables most of the mechs early on.

I usually go for this, but mortars are so inaccurate that this leads to very tedious game play. Probably a different subject of its own, but mortars need to be more accurate or colonists need the ability to have accuracy based on a trait that can be matured. It shouldn't take a few weeks of continious mortar fire to hit a target the size of the ship. IRL, you'd have the azimuth figured out and would have bracketed the target enough to get the elevation spot on. A single "fire for effect" from all mortars against a single point would be more rewarding than all shots being independent of one another.

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 24, 2015, 08:32:58 PM
What they're missing for sure is a mechanoid that is vulnerable in melee.

Another good idea. Perhaps a melee weapon that has some EMP capabilities built in? This would put shields and brawlers in play instead of being cut to pieces.

Speaking of shields, I also think they should be able to be thrown through shields. I could see active energetics not passing, but throwing a grenade is a bit different. I've had this opinion since shields came out regardless of mechanoids and feel it would enhance gameplay on all sides.

Bout the only reason I'd agree that mechs where OP is MAYBE that they don't belong in all difficulty levels.

Otherwise nerfing the only real challenge left in the game seems extreme. Again, more enemies to fill the difficulty gaps/levels. Maybe even some hints/tips for countering enemies that you are having trouble with while playing the game. A colonist dies from an enemy type and you are offered some advice on defeating them.

But cents are counter-able even without turrets. As others have suggested walls are your friend, weapon ranges should be abused, grenades(that's right don't forget grenades with some savy wall placement. Bunch them up and well....). Captured pawns with cruddy skills make wonderful naders. Last but not least, make sure YOUR shooters can't be out-ranged by mechs attacking your base. This is all done with simple wall placement. Anyways.......

Part of the problem might also be players not understanding how damage works in Rimworld. I noticed it was brought up several times that Centipedes "just sit at 1HP forever", but Rimworld doesn't use a traditional hitpoint system. There is no average amount of damage to drop a Centipede. One shot could theoretically destroy the CPU and kill it, and you could also end up shooting it hundreds of times and grinding through every last hitpoint on every last body ring. Centipedes don't get downed because they don't feel pain, and they have lots of legs. Those are the two things that down humans more than anything. They CAN be disabled, in which case you can assign a surgery to disconnect their CPUs, killing them.

You know I never noticed the 1 hp thing. Just keep throwing the kitchen sink, shoes, diapers, tell something goes to sleep lolz. Is that a new thing in 12? I meen they always had sections/parts to them but don't remember anything like that... stuck at 1 hp? Sounds buggish to me haha

Mechanoids feel completely out of control in relation to the difficulty settings. I always play again every new patch and end it because of the bloody Mechanoids. I don't care if other people can deal with them via abusing AI mechanics or w/e, the suck and are totally unbalanced.

The centi type with their seemingly 50 hit locations all of which seem to do nothing but soak damage or the little ones with their annoying always retreat to max range mechanics and over the top range and damage.

They ruin the game for me.

I like Sieges/Raids/Sappers/Melee rushers/animal attacks and everything else. I hate Mechanoid... and to top it off they are the least rewarding enemy to kill because they drop nearly nothing.

And now with this patch even more Mechanoids with poison ships.

I'm not sure why everyone thinks mechanoids are so OP. I defeated a month 3 or 4 mechanoid drop on Randy Random with three colonists, a rifle and a pistol. I just sent one guy with his nearly-broken personal shield to stand in cover, and my other guys behind him. In fact, it looks like the scythers actually got weaker because I was able to drop them in six or seven shots each whereas it took concentrated fire from 5 or 6 well-equipped colonists to do it in the same timeframe in Alpha 11.

Maybe using personal shield bait is "exploiting AI mechanics," but I think the guy only got hit maybe two or three times so I probably could have done it just using cover anyway.

Same as above. Never had much of an issue with Mechanoids. Hell, I've had my prize melee fighter take down a centipede on his own before.

Quote from: lt_halle on August 26, 2015, 02:51:02 AMMaybe using personal shield bait is "exploiting AI mechanics," but I think the guy only got hit maybe two or three times so I probably could have done it just using cover anyway.

You should probably read this page, and the end of the preceeding page. It's the fact that dealing with mechanoids requires this level of micromanagement, which is far above and beyond what any other threat in the game requires, that is leading to the conclusion that mechanoids are OP.

And yes, it is an exploit of AI mechanics.

Well the alternative of "stand there and plink away" is a poor idea in general thanks to Rimworld's completely RNG combat. Trading shots in open fields is the easiest way to suffer a ton of casualties, especially when the raids start getting bigger. Numbers wins Rimworld's combat, regardless of whether you have max skill shooters with a 100% accuracy gun or not, if a raid brings more numbers to bear, your shooters die because they're just rolling the dice far more often than you are. The fact that a colonist can have their ear bitten off by a tortoise that doesn't even reach their knee is hilariously dumb.

Quote from: Tynan on August 23, 2015, 05:58:13 PM
Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to review the poison ship balance. It may be too hard - or it may be ok. You are on Randy Extreme. Not really supposed to be that survivable.

It isnt just on random randy extreme, I was playing on the equivalent of hard mode cassandra and had 3 poison ships and toxic fallout (lasted a month n half) within the first 4 months. It was not fun to deal with, I was just lucky enough to have a sniper and have captured an assassin before it happened.

Well I just rolled on Cassandra Challenge, and I have to say that CENTIPEDES are actually pretty stupid. Like, really, I literally spent two days sitting there attacking two centipedes to clear a poison ship (which I thought was supposed to be individually easier than the psychic ship, but I fought off a psychic ship about two weeks prior that only had one centipede and one scyther). Since they dropped literally on top of my base, I couldn't really retreat, and if I pulled my wounded out of the fight to heal then the fight would have taken 5x as long.

I ended up losing the whole colony because two or three of my five colonists got torso infections from minigun shots and died because the other two people were wounded and I slipped up on micromanaging my healing attempts. Not to mention my most skilled unwounded doctor caught the flu about four days later - but hey, more !!FUN!! am I right?

So I'm playing on Cassandra Rough to learn the new update and this happened:

(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a559/grafvonmourn/Rimworld%201_zpsyohywf5u.jpg)

That is a poison ship and psychic ship part right next to each other.

(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a559/grafvonmourn/Rimworld%202_zpsd3xmlx2l.jpg)

Another poison ship part, please note the month and year.

(http://i1283.photobucket.com/albums/a559/grafvonmourn/Rimworld%203_zpsvwx6hxkw.jpg)

The location of the 3rd poison ship part, the one I was able to kill with the loss of some colonists.

I have had no opportunity to obtain a personal shield. I have no EMP weapons. GG this colony. I've played this game for many hours on extreme difficulty and won in the past. I do not see how this is beatable, it's basically an automatic failure.

Def not good for only rough Cass. Wouldn't imagine that was intended.

Any mod to disable mechanoids? I like challenge but they just feel unbalanced p/not fun on randy random. This is only storyteller i like to play. Mech kills game for me :( got no time to restart 10 times and get wiped 6 hours into eqch playthrough even before i start doing anything substantial.

Quote from: Veneke on August 26, 2015, 03:37:38 AM

You should probably read this page, and the end of the preceeding page. It's the fact that dealing with mechanoids requires this level of micromanagement, which is far above and beyond what any other threat in the game requires, that is leading to the conclusion that mechanoids are OP.

And yes, it is an exploit of AI mechanics.

This 100 times yes. It ruins the experience for me. I don't want to win with exploits.

Quote from: darkwing88 on August 26, 2015, 11:04:03 AM
Any mod to disable mechanoids? I like challenge but they just feel unbalanced p/not fun on randy random. This is only storyteller i like to play. Mech kills game for me :( got no time to restart 10 times and get wiped 6 hours into eqch playthrough even before i start doing anything substantial.

I'd like this mod also, exactly the same reasons in fact.

I hate to say it, but it sounds like you are playing a random story teller and then getting mad because the game is random.

When I play RR, I expect to lose at some point, and probably sooner rather than later.

Quote from: Codexehow on August 26, 2015, 11:49:48 AM
I hate to say it, but it sounds like you are playing a random story teller and then getting mad because the game is random.

When I play RR, I expect to lose at some point, and probably sooner rather than later.

Exact same thing happened to me on Cassandra Rough in Sept of the first year, as I documented with the screenshots above. I normally play Cassandra Extreme with mods. This is not a case of learn to play, Mechs are legitimately way tougher and arrive more frequently and earlier even on easier settings and not just on RR.

Quote from: zandadoum on August 23, 2015, 07:21:34 PM

Quote from: Elixiar on August 23, 2015, 07:12:11 PM
Sigh.

Mechanoids are not OP.
Some people just don't know how to fight them/ can't accept they are superior alien forces yet.

That is all.

please enlighten me... how do you fight 3 poison ships (3 mechs each, if opened) + 1 evil ship (7 mechs if opened) right after a toxic fallout, when only 6 month into the game, your only weapons are a sniper rifle and a shotgun, you only have 5 colonists and a warg, barely any cover due trees dying in the fallout... and all this BEFORE the evil ship drives your colonists crazy?

but as said, never mind the evil ships. never mind alpha 12. never mind early game.
my gripe with mechanoids comes a long way, even in previous alphas.

late game, 10 years into it. 40 colonists well geared, happy, etc. base with defenses both outside and inside.
mechanoid raid right on top of my base. around 20 scythers, 15ish big guys. half of those with inferno launchers.
EMP grenades? riiiight. their rocket launchers have like 3x the range of grenades.
(emp) mortars? i did mention, they dropped right on top of us, right?

and i could go on and on and on...

every single time someone came with a late game screenshot on how he "easily" destroyed gazillions of mechanoids, every single time they had mods on like the one with huge shield dome over your base, improved turrets and guns and whatnot.

If they kill you so what. That's the nature of the game.
Regarding late game I consider it doing well at 3 years in. 10 years? Colony has been around long enough, lower difficulty if you don't want tranquility lane to end!

Quote from: Elixiar on August 26, 2015, 12:49:57 PM
If they kill you so what. That's the nature of the game.
Regarding late game I consider it doing well at 3 years in. 10 years? Colony has been around long enough, lower difficulty if you don't want tranquility lane to end!

you might want to read alpha12b patch notes and previous pages of this very post and you'll learn that
1) you're wrong
2) many people complained about the same thing, on all storytellers and difficulties
3) it has been adressed by Tynan in alpha12b so evil ship events happen less during early game
4) moving on...

Quote from: Tynan on August 23, 2015, 05:58:13 PM
Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to review the poison ship balance. It may be too hard - or it may be ok. You are on Randy Extreme. Not really supposed to be that survivable.

problem with poison ships is, that letter shows you one of them the other you have to find yourself (if you know that there are more of them)
maybe you can put a reminder on the right for more or less important things like raids, sieges, traders...

Quote from: VonMourn on August 26, 2015, 11:57:34 AM

Quote from: Codexehow on August 26, 2015, 11:49:48 AM
I hate to say it, but it sounds like you are playing a random story teller and then getting mad because the game is random.

When I play RR, I expect to lose at some point, and probably sooner rather than later.

Exact same thing happened to me on Cassandra Rough in Sept of the first year, as I documented with the screenshots above. I normally play Cassandra Extreme with mods. This is not a case of learn to play, Mechs are legitimately way tougher and arrive more frequently and earlier even on easier settings and not just on RR.

I think on RR, it's ok to throw anything at us. Yep, you get volcanic winter, toxic fallout, solar flare and mech, then manhunter pack shows up while you fighting mechs outside.
If you were to ever escape, you tell the tales of how lucky you were.

On Cassandra, NO, you need to wait a bit.

Biggest issue with Mechanoids and one that mods solve so they feel more balanced it is the woeful defensive options the vanilla game gives you, among other things.

I got this minigun! but for some reason I never get the idea of putting it on a turret or maybe 2 of them. or assault rifles or basically anything else.
I researched how to harness geothermal power!, but I have no idea how to make a basic fuse.
I have no idea how to build foxholes or trenches or hardened defensive structures like bunkers and embrasures but I can build a starship that can travel between the stars.

Totally off topic but yeah those make-shift turrets with any guns that you man yourself are just an awesome idea. Fit so well into the premises too. Helps your dudes that can't shoot or won't shoot at least be able to do something... love em. Still don't use them though, or any weapon mods for that matter. Too worried bout balance there is so I'll leave weapons up to Tynan and his crew. Least I can just blame it on them if it breaks the fun then hahahaha

I'd rather get the charge blaster and mount it on a turret.

Personally, I feel that the mechanoids are difficult, but about right.

It is good to have an enemy you fear to come, one which you must fight him on his terrain, away from your familiar ground with your turrets and your walls.
Or you can set fire to them and kill them with this (disclosure: unsure if it works in a12)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzA-6OrLPas

Quote from: kahlzun on August 27, 2015, 11:22:29 AM
Personally, I feel that the mechanoids are difficult, but about right.

It is good to have an enemy you fear to come, one which you must fight him on his terrain, away from your familiar ground with your turrets and your walls.
Or you can set fire to them and kill them with this (disclosure: unsure if it works in a12)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzA-6OrLPas

And what when a mech raid drops on top of your base?

Quote from: kahlzun on August 27, 2015, 11:22:29 AM
Personally, I feel that the mechanoids are difficult, but about right.

It is good to have an enemy you fear to come, one which you must fight him on his terrain, away from your familiar ground with your turrets and your walls.
Or you can set fire to them and kill them with this (disclosure: unsure if it works in a12)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzA-6OrLPas

yes it still works it A12, along with build a tight wall and use a frag grenade.

Quote from: zandadoum on August 27, 2015, 11:44:29 AM

Quote from: kahlzun on August 27, 2015, 11:22:29 AM
Personally, I feel that the mechanoids are difficult, but about right.

It is good to have an enemy you fear to come, one which you must fight him on his terrain, away from your familiar ground with your turrets and your walls.
Or you can set fire to them and kill them with this (disclosure: unsure if it works in a12)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzA-6OrLPas

And what when a mech raid drops on top of your base?

So easy to kill when they drop INTO your base, hide inside, they will make their way to the turrets to die. And I can take shots at them while they move from the doorways, flank them, confuse them, oh so easy to take down any raid that drops into the base, as that is my strong hold.

Quote from: TLHeart on August 27, 2015, 12:09:47 PM

Quote from: zandadoum on August 27, 2015, 11:44:29 AM

Quote from: kahlzun on August 27, 2015, 11:22:29 AM
Personally, I feel that the mechanoids are difficult, but about right.

It is good to have an enemy you fear to come, one which you must fight him on his terrain, away from your familiar ground with your turrets and your walls.
Or you can set fire to them and kill them with this (disclosure: unsure if it works in a12)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzA-6OrLPas

And what when a mech raid drops on top of your base?

So easy to kill when they drop INTO your base, hide inside, they will make their way to the turrets to die. And I can take shots at them while they move from the doorways, flank them, confuse them, oh so easy to take down any raid that drops into the base, as that is my strong hold.

seems like your experience is quite different from mine. granted, i only use to get drops "into" my base late game, but when that happens, the first thing they do is shoot a few inferno cannons around, setting everything on fire (i still build some stuff in wood as i think it looks nicer than granite or steel stuff for example)
second thing they do, is kill every single pet that happens to be closeby
third thing they do is one shot everyone that dares to peak out of a door.

and i have never happened them to go for the turrets first. always go for the colonists or whatnot. remember, i said INSIDE YOUR BASE. as in: the freaking bedrooms. take into account that not every player likes to dig into a mountain, some prefer to build stuff "outside" and there they can drop through any constructed roof.

now, you get to year 3-5. maybe 30+ colonists. mech raids are huge. and if they get that close, it's basically game over with absolutely NO chance of survival. if you manage to keep a few guys alive, you won't survive much longer afterwards. and mechs don't give up, like raiders do.
makes me feel like the SNES Jurassic Park game... you played (and enjoyed) the game and then suddenly you are done and all you get is a disapointing stupid black screen with a text saying "congratulations" xD

Quote from: zandadoum on August 27, 2015, 12:58:45 PM

Quote from: TLHeart on August 27, 2015, 12:09:47 PM

Quote from: zandadoum on August 27, 2015, 11:44:29 AM

Quote from: kahlzun on August 27, 2015, 11:22:29 AM
Personally, I feel that the mechanoids are difficult, but about right.

It is good to have an enemy you fear to come, one which you must fight him on his terrain, away from your familiar ground with your turrets and your walls.
Or you can set fire to them and kill them with this (disclosure: unsure if it works in a12)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzA-6OrLPas

And what when a mech raid drops on top of your base?

So easy to kill when they drop INTO your base, hide inside, they will make their way to the turrets to die. And I can take shots at them while they move from the doorways, flank them, confuse them, oh so easy to take down any raid that drops into the base, as that is my strong hold.

seems like your experience is quite different from mine. granted, i only use to get drops "into" my base late game, but when that happens, the first thing they do is shoot a few inferno cannons around, setting everything on fire (i still build some stuff in wood as i think it looks nicer than granite or steel stuff for example)
second thing they do, is kill every single pet that happens to be closeby
third thing they do is one shot everyone that dares to peak out of a door.

and i have never happened them to go for the turrets first. always go for the colonists or whatnot. remember, i said INSIDE YOUR BASE. as in: the freaking bedrooms. take into account that not every player likes to dig into a mountain, some prefer to build stuff "outside" and there they can drop through any constructed roof.

now, you get to year 3-5. maybe 30+ colonists. mech raids are huge. and if they get that close, it's basically game over with absolutely NO chance of survival. if you manage to keep a few guys alive, you won't survive much longer afterwards. and mechs don't give up, like raiders do.
makes me feel like the SNES Jurassic Park game... you played (and enjoyed) the game and then suddenly you are done and all you get is a disapointing stupid black screen with a text saying "congratulations" xD

I never build into a mountain. I build open bases, where when they land inside the base, they have LOS to a  turret. They will always target the turret first. I also pause the game, move each colonist, fire, duck for cover, rinse and repeat.  And in close quarter combat, which inside my base it will be, emp grenades and frag grenades take mechs down quickly. A mech can ONLY target one thing at a time, so that colonist hides, while the others all take a shot, the mech turns to change targets, that target hides, and the others take a shot.  It is all about tactics.

A mech trapped inside a bedroom, I just let him destroy that bedroom, will keep him occupied while I destroy his buddies.

Wood bases are vulnerable to fire, that is a decision you make, and have to live with the consequences of that decision.  Understand how fire works, 2 tile wide firebreaks stop the spread of fire. Floors do not burn.

Mechs NEED to be powerful, and NO they are not over powered, just difficult, until you understand how to flank, and destroy.

I have had 30 mechs land in the housing complex of my base, I had 28 colonist at the time... I lost ZERO colonist. Now it took a whole lot of rebuilding from the fires, but the colony survived. That was in 11.

In 12, I have had the 2 poison ships early, followed quickly by the evil ship... just popped them open one at a time. The mechs are tethered to the ship, and can not range long distance from the ship, until the ship is below 50%.  I only had 4 colonist, lost none. Survival rifle, shotgun from raider, plasteel knife and shield, and a pistol. Again about tactics, not a head on group assault. Lots of micro management of positions.

You want to play on extreme, accept the consequences that you will be destroyed at some point.

Quote from: TLHeart on August 27, 2015, 01:21:30 PM
I never build into a mountain. I build open bases, where when they land inside the base, they have LOS to a  turret.

This is interesting. In my longer games I've found that my turrets simply won't cover the entirety, or even the majority, of the colony. Could you post a screenshot of one of your bases? I'm very curious to see what trade-offs you're making to get this to work.

QuoteLots of micro management of positions.

Again, this is the crux of the issue. No other threat requires the same level of micromanagement as mechanoids. They're a spike in the difficulty that is problematic, in terms of how the game progresses, when they arrive early.

I have hundreds of hours in Rimworld, and have been with the mechanoids from the beginning, and I'd like in.

First of all, I sympathize with everyone that fear for an easier game. Rimworld is not supposed to be easy, the way I interpret the game, we make a story of a colony as we play. The unlimited playability comes from the fact that no two colonies are the like.

But every colony gets raided by mechs.

Mechanoids are a problem - not because they are hard, solar flares and blights can also be "hard" all depending on your colony and situation. They are a problem because the difficulty stops following a progressive path. We veterans of Rimworld know that even in 12a we can still pause, attack, hide as the mech shoots and rinse and repeat. For a new player however - the experience as I understand many of these worried posts - is that they get slaughtered. And not even new play, but your average player even. 

Mechs can be strong - but not that early in the game. The problem as I see mechanoids, is that they come very early on, and they wreck havoc on unprepared colonies. Against a strong raid, you can always fight defensively, lose structures instead of men. With mechs a scythe might simply walk up and shred your colonists, I get this problem. I get this problem because I introduce friends to this game, and they share their experiences.

On the other hand. Mechanoid attack might in some, and often the case in early attacks, offer the grand prize. An AI. I do not think the reward justifies this seemingly unbalanced early game attack that whilst random, seems inevitable at any normal or higher difficulty.

The solution will have to be adding weaker mech attacks, and then send those early on. Medium wealth colonies might not be prepared for such an attack that we are seeing today.

My concerns are for players on cassandra classic at "rough." Players on a higher difficulty or on random storyteller should be more experienced in the game.

Quote from: Ithildae on August 27, 2015, 02:00:43 PM
My concerns are for players on cassandra classic at "rough." Players on a higher difficulty or on random storyteller should be more experienced in the game.

Cassandra Rough player chiming in here.

I've always found the Manhunter Warg packs of 20+ to be a bigger threat than any of the Mechanoid ships or raids I've gotten. While I won't deny that my first encounter with them was pretty bad, So was my first encounter with sappers. (Molotovs into the same wall as my bedrooms = 500 degree deathrooms). I probably lost more to sappers than I ever have to Mechanoids. Once you realise, "Oh, These things have better weapons than me", you just have to treat them as the threat they are, I.E., Carefully.  I look forward to the bastards at this point, As I need the Plasteel

I think it's important to have a deadly threat early in the game. Mechanoids are the game's wake-up call boss (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WakeUpCallBoss). They teach you that sometimes the game is simply not fair, that you can be heavily outgunned and overpowered by the enemy, and that you must make up for that in different ways. You might lose a couple of colonists or even entire colonies until you find what their weakpoints are and how to effectively use them, but those skills are needed once you get into a late game battle against overwhelming odds.

Quoteplayskool-izing

Based Tynan

Anyways OP if you want an easier Randy Random (a semi-spontaneous mode just w/ the events not being able to be within <week month or year>) just ask someone to mod it or code that stuff yourself.

Quote from: Bob_Namg on August 27, 2015, 06:41:04 PM

Quoteplayskool-izing

Based Tynan

Anyways OP if you want an easier Randy Random (a semi-spontaneous mode just w/ the events not being able to be within <week month or year>) just ask someone to mod it or code that stuff yourself.

this has nothing to do with RR (on any difficulty) anymore as people have complained about the same problems on ALL storytellers. just read through the past pages of this post

and thanks to the complaints Tynan found some bug(s?) with the Poison Ships at least.

Quote from: zandadoum on August 27, 2015, 07:01:36 PM

Quote from: Bob_Namg on August 27, 2015, 06:41:04 PM

Quoteplayskool-izing

Based Tynan

Anyways OP if you want an easier Randy Random (a semi-spontaneous mode just w/ the events not being able to be within <week month or year>) just ask someone to mod it or code that stuff yourself.

this has nothing to do with RR (on any difficulty) anymore as people have complained about the same problems on ALL storytellers. just read through the past pages of this post

and thanks to the complaints Tynan found some bug(s?) with the Poison Ships at least.

Actually, those were not bugs, they were happening as intended. He just nerf the event to stop people from complaining that the game is hard.

Quote from: TLHeart on August 27, 2015, 10:18:34 PM
Actually, those were not bugs, they were happening as intended. He just nerf the event to stop people from complaining that the game is hard.

See, I've a feeling that folk aren't actually reading what's being said. Complaints that the game is hard, or that Randy is random, aren't justified. First, it's an alpha. Difficulty is kind of a crapshoot. Second, Randy's whole reason to exist is to be random. It wouldn't make sense for him to be constrained.

However, there is an issue insofar as early mechanoids represent a difficulty spike that throws progression out of whack. It's not that mechanoids are hard, it's that they're significantly harder to take on than any other threat. So you have a progression of threats that goes something like this: easy, easy, hard, easy, easy, moderate, moderate, very hard, moderate, moderate, stupidly hard, hard, hard.

I'm being overly simplistic here to make the point clearer but that's effectively the pattern. The threats start off being very easy to handle. Then you'll get a mechanoid event and the difficulty spikes. Then you're back to threats that are relatively easy to handle and progress according to the development of your colony. It's that inconsistent progression which is at fault here, and which Tynan has made attempts to rectify by pushing the start date of mechanoids back a little.

ongoing progression would get boring without those spikes though..

Quote from: TLHeart on August 27, 2015, 10:18:34 PM
Actually, those were not bugs, they were happening as intended. He just nerf the event to stop people from complaining that the game is hard.

wrong

Quote from: Tynan
I'm looking at the code and there may be some issues here anyway with the poison ships multiply the number of mechanoids. So I may have to fix that.

source: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=15502.msg163372#msg163372

so you can all get off your elitists horses, Tynan did read opinions, Tynan analyzed the situation, Tynan found some bugs in the code, Tynan adressed the issue as he saw fit.
END
OF
STORY

and as you see, people from all storytellers and difficulties are complaining that mechanoids are too OP, specially when thrown at you early game. having to recurr to cheesy tactics or mods is not how everyone wants to play his game.

User was temp-banned for this post in addition to previous inflammatory posts

This discussion has run its course.