mechanoids way to OP and more and more OP in every single patch?

zandadoum · August 23, 2015, 04:06:31 PM

Ok, I like challenges like the next guy... but one thing is a challenge, another thing is <this>...

alpha 12, new colony, randy extreme NO MODS!

6 month into the game, just barely managed to get half a dozen turrets and sun lamps running without draining batteries too much, only 5 colonists... 1 warg, 2 cows, 1 husky

toxic fallout, followed by 3 (!!!) poison ships, followed by one evil ship. all in less than a week of gametime

i haven't even got decent weapons yet, even less so train some1 to better shooting...

and now mechanoids are even more OP as their AI has been improved. if you try to snipe them, they actually move away now. whileas their accuracy, speed and fire rate still seems 1000% better than any of my guys, they just need to shoot you once and you are DEAD.
not to mention the fact that they stay at 1% hp for AGES before actually dying, if you actually manage to hit them.

i chose randy extreme for a challenge, not to be kicked out of a plane without a chute and the final words "have fun"

so, anyone noticed excessive increased difficulty to kill mechanoids early in game (without mods!)?

no need to tell me all your fancy strategies and tricks, mods, exploits or whatever to kill them, just let me know if you think they are too OP now or not.

b0rsuk · August 23, 2015, 04:09:12 PM

Hmm, Poison Ship poisons ground. I wonder if hydroponics are affected ?

zandadoum · August 23, 2015, 04:14:02 PM

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 04:09:12 PM
Hmm, Poison Ship poisons ground. I wonder if hydroponics are affected ?

totally relevant and helpful, thx

Goo Poni · August 23, 2015, 04:30:18 PM

Clearly don't seem to like challenges all that much when Randy -Random- on a high difficulty to inflate enemy counts throws you a curveball.

Also they stay at 1% HP forever. Last I checked, they don't bleed nor eat nor can they heal. They keep whatever damage they take. I've had crippled mechanoids squirm on the ground for several in-game months before noticing them still moving around and sending someone to go turn them off.

Mechanoids are always gonna be better than colonists in typical 1 to 1 combat and if you've only got 5 colonists and there's more than just the one Centipede, you'll be in for a fun time. The accuracy of the Centipedes barely matters to them because of how Rimworld's combat works. They either don't need to hit with their AoE flamethrower or they put so many rounds in the air with their charge blasters and miniguns that something will hit regardless. Scythers are a bit more balanced in that regard as they only put out a single shot, but they do meaty damage and Charge Lances are one of the only weapons, if not the only weapon that actually gets better accuracy at range.

TLHeart · August 23, 2015, 04:36:25 PM

Yes the mechs are more demanding in alpha 12...

Cassandra rough, to learn all the new content, I am at day 135, and this will be my 2 round of poison ships, which I dispatched, and now I have my 2nd evil ship... I only have 5 colonists, alive, have lost 4 to infections, battle deaths.

I have found the difficulty to be more extreme, even on Cassandra with all the changes to crop growing, and medical treatments.

b0rsuk · August 23, 2015, 04:44:48 PM

Also works against charge blaster and inferno cannon. Scythers are by far the most dangerous, unless you're caught without a personal shield in early game. Personal shield in cover makes an amazing decoy.

Does anyone know if Painstopper makes a colonist ignore burning ?

zandadoum · August 23, 2015, 04:50:48 PM

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 04:44:48 PM

Also works against charge blaster and inferno cannon. Scythers are by far the most dangerous, unless you're caught without a personal shield in early game.

Does anyone know if Painstopper makes a colonist ignore burning ?

1) screen shot shows a poison ship, which usually is easier than evil ship
2) 3 guys with charge rifles? dude, the best thing i got is a aweful sniper rifle and a shotgun. shields? never seen one in this first 6 month
and bonus:
3) previous toxic fallout took out all the trees, there's barely any cover

b0rsuk · August 23, 2015, 04:55:51 PM

The full screenshot is from January 7, 5501, on Randy Random Challenge (100%).

A poison ship is easier than psychic ship... that's why there are two. Or three. The first time they come there are two poison ships. Then three and each containing more mechanoids. And your reward is measly 140 silver per part. I've had a colony still more or less functioning with extreme psychic ship (-50 mood), because they don't break all the time. But when they shut down your plants, you're left without food and medicine.

zandadoum · August 23, 2015, 05:04:06 PM

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 04:55:51 PM
The full screenshot is from January 7, 5501, on Randy Random Challenge (100%).

A poison ship is easier than psychic ship... that's why there are two. Or three. The first time they come there are two poison ships. Then three and each containing more mechanoids. And your reward is measly 140 silver per part. I've had a colony still more or less functioning with extreme psychic ship (-50 mood), because they don't break all the time. But when they shut down your plants, you're left without food and medicine.

did you even read my opening post?

1 toxic fallout, 3 poison ship, 1 evil ship ALL AT ONCE and before even 6 month into the game.

it wouldn't be such a big deal, if it wasn't for the improved scyther AI, which now moves away/close to snipers and with 100000000000000% (ran out of more zeros) accuracy, fire rate and range

like i said, one thing is wanting a challenge (hence randy extreme) and a totally different thing is getting kicked out of a plane without a parachute.

b0rsuk · August 23, 2015, 05:09:31 PM

Well it's called extreme, isn't it ?
Does this happen consistently, or just a random fluke ? Does every game on extreme has this sort of first 6 months ?

zandadoum · August 23, 2015, 05:14:56 PM

Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 05:09:31 PM
Well it's called extreme, isn't it ?
Does this happen consistently, or just a random fluke ? Does every game on extreme has this sort of first 6 months ?

if i don't manage to save this colony, i'll find out with a new one xD

b0rsuk · August 23, 2015, 05:23:01 PM

Quote from: zandadoum on August 23, 2015, 05:14:56 PM
Quote from: b0rsuk on August 23, 2015, 05:09:31 PM
Well it's called extreme, isn't it ?
Does this happen consistently, or just a random fluke ? Does every game on extreme has this sort of first 6 months ?
if i don't manage to save this colony, i'll find out with a new one xD

I've had things like 3 raids within two days. Admittedly, I was asking for it because one of them was caused by me taking a refugee. Sometimes it's really rough, but cases like this are rare for me.

Tynan · August 23, 2015, 05:58:13 PM

Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to review the poison ship balance. It may be too hard - or it may be ok. You are on Randy Extreme. Not really supposed to be that survivable.

zandadoum · August 23, 2015, 06:12:55 PM

Quote from: Tynan on August 23, 2015, 05:58:13 PM
Interesting, thanks for the info. I'll have to review the poison ship balance. It may be too hard - or it may be ok. You are on Randy Extreme. Not really supposed to be that survivable.

In all fairness, I haven't encountered too much trouble with the poison ship itself. yes, I got 3 at the same time, but I didn't notice any huge impact really, maybe because they were far away from my base and crops (big map)
Also, they do spawn less mechanoids, right?

However the problem is the mechanoids themselves. IMO they are stupidly powerfull. Too huge range, too huge fire rate, too much damage and now, improved AI to counter sniper rifles it seems.
This is a huge problem when you get mechanoids early in the game.

The difference early game and late game is just the amount of mechanoids you get.
I think this should be changed, because 1-3 mechanoids in the first 6 month can totally ruin you because they are so OP.
I'd like to suggest to keep the numbers the same, but
1) make them easier to kill early game
2) make them spawn less times (even if you're playing randy extreme) in the first year

toxic fallout + 3 poison ships + 1 evil ship (with more mechanoids than I have colonist!) all at the same time and within the first 6 month? that shouldn't happen regardless what storyteller and difficulty you play. that's not a challenge, that's not fun.

Like I said, I do want a challenge, but when things get stupid like that, I just reload a previous save (over and over if needed) to get a different event. And where's the fun in that?

Tynan · August 23, 2015, 06:17:18 PM

Quote from: zandadoum on August 23, 2015, 06:12:55 PM
toxic fallout + 3 poison ships + 1 evil ship (with more mechanoids than I have colonist!) all at the same time and within the first 6 month? that shouldn't happen regardless what storyteller and difficulty you play. that's not a challenge, that's not fun.

Well. I don't agree with your conclusion.

If I disallowed certain combinations, he wouldn't be random any more. He'd just be another rubber-banded AI storyteller similar to Cassandra. But he's Randy Random, which is exactly what it says on the tin.

Where's the fun in that? It's in the fact that the system doesn't coddle you at all. Outcomes are true. It's fun if you're willing to just play out a scenario to death and let the drama unfold. Not everyone likes this, but some do.

If you want a balanced, steady, consistent storyteller experience, we have that. Cassandra can be hard as hell, but she won't do anything ridiculously out of line. Randy is exactly what his name suggests and I think playskool-izing him would just take away options to replace them with something the game already offers.