I was wondering if there has been any news or update in regards to the graphics for colonists. In the recent alphas the health system has been changed and new clothes such as pants have been added yet are invisible.
Same as if an arm or leg is blown off the colonist looks the same. Will this be changed in the future as I believe it would flesh out the game a little more seeing a few colonists with some bad bruises and one with a peg leg after a bad raid! ;D
I am pretty sure it has been said the art style is final
Oh ok. That's a pity, it would have been nice to see the colonists have a little more detail. Well having limbs at least. Would it be possible to mod it so this could be possible?
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
personally, I love the current graphics style, it helps me to not overstress my eyes with HD explosions and the like (the hind that shooters and stuff use).
simple but well done artwork > fancy HD up in your face artwork.
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
Abstract, and simple, sure i understand how that makes sense for this type of game, and the allocation of limited resources.
But the main issue in my opinion is that over most of the game, it's pretty hard to tell one pawn apart from another. In the early game before you have hats or helmets, hair does a pretty good job of distinguishing a small number of pawns, but unfortunately hats and helmets replace the hair layer, and the main visual distinguisher is gone. Skin color could be a way to differentiate one from another, but almost everybody is "white" in my experience.
As you add more colonists and more gear they all start to blend together distinguished only by the 5 body shapes, some of which look pretty similar with certain clothing. Presumably this will be worse in alpha 9 as gear will have durability, and have to be replaced more frequently, so you have less of a chance to remember a character by it's outfit.
It's a lot harder for your imagination to latch onto an nearly anonymous icon.
Quote from: Eleazar on January 20, 2015, 06:29:19 PM
Abstract, and simple, sure i understand how that makes sense for this type of game, and the allocation of limited resources.
But the main issue in my opinion is that over most of the game, it's pretty hard to tell one pawn apart from another. In the early game before you have hats or helmets, hair does a pretty good job of distinguishing a small number of pawns, but unfortunately hats and helmets replace the hair layer, and the main visual distinguisher is gone.
As you add more colonists and more gear they all start to blend together distinguished only by the 5 body shapes, some of which look pretty similar with certain clothing. Presumably this will be worse in alpha 9 as gear will have durability, and have to be replaced more frequently, so you have less of a chance to remember a character by it's outfit.
It's a lot harder for your imagination to latch onto an nearly anonymous icon.
So what you are really asking for is not so much a better looking game, but a better system for managing your colonists. something like Eds' mod that put a list on the top of the screen. I would image that Tynan will get around to better colonist management as the game evolves, but there are probably a very large amount of things hat will come before that.
The faces could maybe use a little tweaking but not much, I really like the way the game is right now to be honest and enjoy the graphics. Although maybe RimWorld faces could go the direction the Prison Architect did.
I do love the graphics the way they are now and I do believe that a little imagination can go a long way but a little visual help can also do the same, even more so. Such as having an old war veteran with a bionic arm and an old scar would make you wonder how he got them and what he went through or seeing your colonists with amputated limbs would upset you more as you know that they paid the price to survive a tough raid. With some graphical changes I think this could really add some depth to the backstory and emotional attachment to your colonists.
I'm quite happy with the graphics as they stand, for the reason Tynan mentioned above. Also pleased that he is prioritize more/better events over graphical issues, which I think is the correct direction to go. I imagine it is possible to mod the pawn graphics, if one desires.
Two things that helped me a lot, at least with initial colonists, is to use the EdBInterface and EdBPrepareCarefully mods - the first to have a bar at the top of the screen constantly reminding me of who has what face, and the later to make sure at least the initially colonists have distinct faces.
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
I agree with this, the current art style makes your brain image things, which is one of my favorite parts of this game. However, one thing that truly bothers me is the fact that you cannot see what pants a colonist is wearing. Even just having the bottom 1/5 of the colonist have the color of the pants would be great. It would keep the current art style, but you wouldn't have to look at the "Gear" tab to see what kind of pants they are wearing. I think it would be just a bit more aesthetically pleasing as well.
Try Sadler's Pawn State Icons (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9163.0) mod. Works wonders if you want more detail.
Quote from: StorymasterQ on January 20, 2015, 08:03:56 PM
Try Sadler's Pawn State Icons (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9163.0) mod. Works wonders if you want more detail.
Yeah that is a great mod and works wonders when my colonists are going insane and I dont know why :D maybe its just me but I guess I just want a little more detail on my colonists, not just so that I can distinguish them more easily from one another but to give them a little more depth as I mentioned earlier. I think I will try making a mod to do that. I don't have much experience but I've been wanting to try modding for a little while now and this may be what I will try doing.
Quote from: elStrages on January 20, 2015, 06:35:40 PM
So what you are really asking for is not so much a better looking game, but a better system for managing your colonists. something like Eds' mod that put a list on the top of the screen.
That's not what i'm asking for here.
I think EDb GUI mod makes a huge improvement to the game but doesn't really address what i'm complaining about. Too many similar looking pawns is still an issue when they are put up along the top of the screen in a row.
Quote from: BattleFalcon on January 20, 2015, 07:20:35 PM
However, one thing that truly bothers me is the fact that you cannot see what pants a colonist is wearing. Even just having the bottom 1/5 of the colonist have the color of the pants would be great. It would keep the current art style, but you wouldn't have to look at the "Gear" tab to see what kind of pants they are wearing. I think it would be just a bit more aesthetically pleasing as well.
I agree with that. It is a wasted opportunity to make pawns look different.
Not that i'm demeaning the work that's been done so far. But i don't think the graphic do everything they could with the stated constraints and goals.
Doesn't the name attached to the pawn make it clear who is who?
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 11:10:26 PM
Doesn't the name attached to the pawn make it clear who is who?
I would have thought so.
Maybe people need moustaches freckles and thicker eyebrows to play properly.
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 11:10:26 PM
Doesn't the name attached to the pawn make it clear who is who?
Kinda, but quiet frankly, most of the colonist end up wearing the exact same thing and looking exactly the same that it becomes difficult to attach information to the name.
Instead of being "This is Jeff, the bitching cool cyborg with power armour and a Sniper rifle, and this is Billy the farmer with farmers hat, overalls and shovel" it becomes "This is Joe, and he is wearing power armour and has a LMG (because everyone one is) and he does..... uh... just a sec... *check stats* farming, he's a farmer. And this guy right next to him, Leroy, also wearing power armour and toting a LMG, is.. *checks stats* a hauler. And Ralph, who looks like the last two guys, also with a LMG is *checks stats* a cook".
Anyway my point is that the very small amount of differences between colonists, is so minor that it becomes hard to attach information to the name unless they are a pawn I created and I know the name - everyone else is pretty much 'minions' until I check what they do.
You could rename your colonist to more helpful names though
Farmer1 farmer2 miner construct etc etc
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on January 21, 2015, 04:34:15 AM
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 11:10:26 PM
Doesn't the name attached to the pawn make it clear who is who?
Kinda, but quiet frankly, most of the colonist end up wearing the exact same thing and looking exactly the same that it becomes difficult to attach information to the name.
Instead of being "This is Jeff, the bitching cool cyborg with power armour and a Sniper rifle, and this is Billy the farmer with farmers hat, overalls and shovel" it becomes "This is Joe, and he is wearing power armour and has a LMG (because everyone one is) and he does..... uh... just a sec... *check stats* farming, he's a farmer. And this guy right next to him, Leroy, also wearing power armour and toting a LMG, is.. *checks stats* a hauler. And Ralph, who looks like the last two guys, also with a LMG is *checks stats* a cook".
Anyway my point is that the very small amount of differences between colonists, is so minor that it becomes hard to attach information to the name unless they are a pawn I created and I know the name - everyone else is pretty much 'minions' until I check what they do.
You can rename pawns. Attach an abbreviation, a letter/number combo to your colonists which you can identify them faster with. I add an F to my farmers for example. At some point i used numbers to indicate effectiveness but it became a chore. With 20+ colonists it's nice to see who are cannon fodder at a glance by finding everyone tagged with CF on the screen...
We litterally replied with the same thing as me lol
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 11:10:26 PM
Doesn't the name attached to the pawn make it clear who is who?
Plenty of people, possibly most people, are better at remembering faces or visual information and not so good at remembering lots of new names. And besides the name is only visible when you click on them.
Quote from: elStrages on January 21, 2015, 04:48:04 AM
You could rename your colonist to more helpful names though
Farmer1 farmer2 miner construct etc etc
You could but for me that would kill the feel that this is some kind of story, and reduce it to some kind of optimization puzzle. In other words that would hurt the best part of Rimworld.
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
Honestly, I never thought that there could be any particular reason to do it this way, I rather thought it was done out of convenience and to go with the art style you want to.
In any case, I would love to see a way to make every pawn visually unique in some way, as I for one am so absent minded that if I have more than 5 colonists I don't remember their names. Unless it's a special to me somehow (like exceptional doctor). So I'm in the same boat with Mikhail here.
I'm sure modding can create more variants of these, the spiked head guys for example are perfect example as long as you don't give them head gear. And I guess the gear they wear can go long ways too.
For visual side, I don't mind current pawn graphics. They actually look very pretty. <3
From a modding point of view. The pawns are the hardest to mod graphically as they don't have a set piece of code to change. They draw from the system it self. If there was a default image code line for human pawns bodies and heads I would happily make more faces and bodies tbh
One mod solution could be simply color coding each colonists apparel so that for example Jack wears always pink, Mike has red clothes and Bill has transparent because he's weird etc..
Just something what came into my mind suddenly and I had to blurt it out quickly :)
Well you can kind of do that already. Apparel colour is dictated by the material it is made out of. But across all armours might be useful. Tynan would have to add a colour change GUI and a new class for pawns to do so.
Here's my "cheapest suggestion" on the subject of pawn visual uniqueness: remove all stats from the hats and helmets. In other words makes them purely aesthetic.
That way we can leave the hair visible if it makes the pawn distinctive, or we can add some sort of hat or helmet to make them unique or to identify their role.
Its hard to resist going for any slight increase in survivability that's available in the current hats and helmets.
Quote from: Eleazar on January 21, 2015, 06:43:05 AM
Here's my "cheapest suggestion" on the subject of pawn visual uniqueness: remove all stats from the hats and helmets. In other words makes them purely aesthetic.
That way we can leave the hair visible if it makes the pawn distinctive, or we can add some sort of hat or helmet to make them unique or to identify their role.
Its hard to resist going for any slight increase in survivability that's available in the current hats and helmets.
That's actually not a bad idea. On one hand, I like "complexity" of having both helmets and armor with stat effects but it's true, everyone becomes Power Armor guys pretty quickly. With purely aesthetic headwear, at least there'd be a reason to wear that snazzy cowboy hat over Power Armor helmet.
Have some thoughts...
First one. About all-pawns-wear-power-armors. Even PAs different in colors, so by the time, you could have a blue one for your medic, green for farmers and black for S.W.A.T guys. And all other clothes with different colors could help you to determinate your specipic pawn.
Second. About names. Maybe, naming like "Farmer1", "Farmer2" etc isn't a brilliant idea, but you could try more natyral nicknames. Such as Seed, Driad, Peon for farmers, Mop for Cleaner, Brick and Hammer for builders and so on...
And the last. General. Maybe it's just my case, but I really don't have any problems with pawn identification, so I think current graphics is purely as good as it can be for Rimworld.
I agree that pawns could use a wee bit more immediately visible differences.
Yes the name makes it clear but it's still kind of awkward when, tending to wear a lot of the same gear, adapted to the same climate/conditions etc, most of your colonists look the same bar body shape. Now that I think about it it's easier to tell Dwarves apart immediately on most DF tilesets. And it seems to me you're precisely trying to bring a DF-like experience to a larger audience by making your game reasonably more readable, amongst other things. Personally I think even the names don't really cut it when your guys all look the same in parkas/power armor/helmets. Yes you get attached to the names and you know who your colonists are, but it's a little sad that the name is really the only solid way to tell them apart in those circumstances regardless.
That being said, I don't think anyone who understands what you're going for would have an issue with abstraction and simplicity per se.
Maybe there's no great way to go about it and it's indeed a waste of energy from a development perspective. Whatever happens happens.
I've created a texture mod to make the point that more individual appearances for pawns would enhance the game. It varies the eyes.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9505
Quote from: elStrages on January 21, 2015, 04:48:04 AM
You could rename your colonist to more helpful names though
Farmer1 farmer2 miner construct etc etc
The game is in Alpha - this is the time we should be asking "Is this the right way to do this" and not the time to be looking for workarounds.
In my opinion - we're asking the wrong question here. The right questions are "Why is it advantageous for everyone to weak power armor?" and "Why does my farmer look like a space marine?"
Clothes mask the character sprites, and at this point serve two purposes - armor values and temperature protection - as such there is a 'best fit' solution - that needs to change. A farmer wearing power armor needs to be a crappy farmer - there needs to be tradeoffs to wearing different garb - the farmer is safer in his power armor, but he keeps stepping on plants and breaking his tools.
Quote from: CrazyTalk on January 21, 2015, 11:25:13 AM
Quote from: elStrages on January 21, 2015, 04:48:04 AM
You could rename your colonist to more helpful names though
Farmer1 farmer2 miner construct etc etc
The game is in Alpha - this is the time we should be asking "Is this the right way to do this" and not the time to be looking for workarounds.
In my opinion - we're asking the wrong question here. The right questions are "Why is it advantageous for everyone to weak power armor?" and "Why does my farmer look like a space marine?"
Clothes mask the character sprites, and at this point serve two purposes - armor values and temperature protection - as such there is a 'best fit' solution - that needs to change. A farmer wearing power armor needs to be a crappy farmer - there needs to be tradeoffs to wearing different garb - the farmer is safer in his power armor, but he keeps stepping on plants and breaking his tools.
I think there's a -10% global work speed debuff on Power Armor actually, which is nowhere near enough. Power Armor should probably excluded most tasks being done, other than killing stuff or talking to people.
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 11:10:26 PM
Doesn't the name attached to the pawn make it clear who is who?
I actually did have an instance where I had two identical pawns (especially hilarious as one was male and one was female, heh) but I just gave them different clothes and changed their nicknames, and that solved that.
Quote from: CrazyTalk on January 21, 2015, 11:25:13 AM
...Clothes mask the character sprites, and at this point serve two purposes - armor values and temperature protection - as such there is a 'best fit' solution - that needs to change. A farmer wearing power armor needs to be a crappy farmer - there needs to be tradeoffs to wearing different garb - the farmer is safer in his power armor, but he keeps stepping on plants and breaking his tools.
Maybe, but there need to be other new systems in place to keep that from being a pain. Until your colony is pretty big and running smoothly, most of your pawns will have multiple jobs, and quite possibly defend the base when under a big attack. If you need to constantly change their gear so they can do whatever job well that will make the game less fun.
Quote from: Sartain on January 21, 2015, 11:27:52 AM
Quote from: CrazyTalk on January 21, 2015, 11:25:13 AM
Quote from: elStrages on January 21, 2015, 04:48:04 AM
You could rename your colonist to more helpful names though
Farmer1 farmer2 miner construct etc etc
The game is in Alpha - this is the time we should be asking "Is this the right way to do this" and not the time to be looking for workarounds.
In my opinion - we're asking the wrong question here. The right questions are "Why is it advantageous for everyone to weak power armor?" and "Why does my farmer look like a space marine?"
Clothes mask the character sprites, and at this point serve two purposes - armor values and temperature protection - as such there is a 'best fit' solution - that needs to change. A farmer wearing power armor needs to be a crappy farmer - there needs to be tradeoffs to wearing different garb - the farmer is safer in his power armor, but he keeps stepping on plants and breaking his tools.
I think there's a -10% global work speed debuff on Power Armor actually, which is nowhere near enough. Power Armor should probably excluded most tasks being done, other than killing stuff or talking to people.
I would have said the opposite isn't the point of power armour that it enhances the human body, I may be wrong. I would have thought it would have made tasks easier.
Quote from: Eleazar on January 21, 2015, 01:03:26 PM
Quote from: CrazyTalk on January 21, 2015, 11:25:13 AM
...Clothes mask the character sprites, and at this point serve two purposes - armor values and temperature protection - as such there is a 'best fit' solution - that needs to change. A farmer wearing power armor needs to be a crappy farmer - there needs to be tradeoffs to wearing different garb - the farmer is safer in his power armor, but he keeps stepping on plants and breaking his tools.
Maybe, but there need to be other new systems in place to keep that from being a pain. Until your colony is pretty big and running smoothly, most of your pawns will have multiple jobs, and quite possibly defend the base when under a big attack. If you need to constantly change their gear so they can do whatever job well that will make the game less fun.
You make a good point. Many colonists do different jobs and not all should be suited in power armour because they can withstand a raid imo. Colonists for mainly combat should have power armour and the rest different clothes with distinguishing features.
Even then with more parts to a pawn different clothes could be added such as gloves, boots or helmets which could help you tell them from each other. Maybe later with more features and roles it would be better like this.
This is clearly an issue that everyone cares about. The first post today (in the EST timezone) was on page 1, and now we're on page 3 halfway through the day. (And 2 replies were posted while I was typing this!) I don't think I've seen another thread grow this fast before.
With that said, I'm in the same boat as many others. I get attached to my colonists, and I like that. My colonies don't get that big - my biggest one had 13-15 max, and I felt like I really only "knew" 6 or 8 of them. The rest seemed kind of generic or bland.
I'm not sure if they really were bland, or if it was just that they joined the colony when I needed full-time haulers or gardeners (so I didn't interact with them very much). Also, it was in an arctic biome, which means parka, toque, & tribal wear for everyone, so everyone looked the same.
I would also love to see more ways of making pawns visually unique, and maybe having more ways of interacting with them (but not to the point of babying or micromanaging). I really don't like the idea of adding symbols (etc) to names just to differentiate them - that turns a unique colonist into a mere function.
I think what I really want is a way to see and interact with them as a unique "person". I really like the idea of clothing/armor that buffs certain "jobs" and debuffs others. What about equipable "tools" that do the same thing? A farmer could equip a hoe or a seed pouch instead of a firearm (or in addition to). A miner could equip a pick, etc. That, I think, would go a long way to making colonists less generic.
Quote from: Eleazar on January 21, 2015, 01:03:26 PM
Quote from: CrazyTalk on January 21, 2015, 11:25:13 AM
...Clothes mask the character sprites, and at this point serve two purposes - armor values and temperature protection - as such there is a 'best fit' solution - that needs to change. A farmer wearing power armor needs to be a crappy farmer - there needs to be tradeoffs to wearing different garb - the farmer is safer in his power armor, but he keeps stepping on plants and breaking his tools.
Maybe, but there need to be other new systems in place to keep that from being a pain. Until your colony is pretty big and running smoothly, most of your pawns will have multiple jobs, and quite possibly defend the base when under a big attack. If you need to constantly change their gear so they can do whatever job well that will make the game less fun.
Then take the switching away - making the changing in and out of power armor take some time - or make it a bionics thing.
I just don't see "everyone puts on their power armor for each assault" as a good thing - it takes away player choice, there's no decision to be made, etc. Putting large downsides to wearing power armor would make the Assassin/Bloodlust/etc type characters much more useful - they'd be full time military - with high end weaponry/armor, while the colonists that have day jobs are more like militia - drop the shovel and pick up a rifle.
i wish there was facial hair
Just building off what others have said, I think part of a solution to this would be:
Alternative things for colonists to carry, which would be MORE useful then a weapon (tools)
More clothes with different yet equal reasons to wear (eg .staw hat noticeably improves farming yet obviously low armour vs helmet improved armour but colonists get hot wearing it)
A way to rally troops automatically with X load out.
Ownership of equipment lockers
Less, but more intricate raids
This way there would reasons to have a large percentage of a mid-large sized colony population not wearing combat clothing or possibly even carrying a weapon while also maintaing a standing army. The colony would be more productive while also adding a lot of much needed 'flavor'. Using a auto equip would also mean the player would be encouraged to equip colonists with varied load outa knowing that in the event of a 'all hands on deck', there wouldn't be a mountain of clicking to change everyone into and out of combat gear. A tab somewhere to select a 'work' and a 'combat' load out (even researchable - a PA system calls everyone to duty?). With this, and equipment locker owner ship, once selecting the gear on this tab (from list of owned equip>similar to trade menu) the pawn would then automatically retrieve his/her gear from the stockpile, equip the current load out and store the other in his locker.
Most small incidents could be microed the same as normal - the best fighter enlisted and sent out, while the rest of the colony works, while a large surprised raid would send the army to the front lines while everyone else scrambles to get their gear.
Just two coins from some crazy squirrel...
You guys saying right things... and have some reasonable arguiments, but... Do you think, that Rimworld really suffers from topic-name issue. Is the external look of your pawn so emergent thing, that Ty should fix it immediatly?.. And should it be fixed at all?..
We all love the Aparello mod and all other, that brings us Right tools for a job, but, as for me, I don't really think that it is a main direction for Rimworld to go. I'm waiting for deeper colony survival simulation, not a look of that simulation.
Just a thoughts, don't want to offend anyone's opinion.
Quote from: Sartain on January 21, 2015, 11:27:52 AM
I think there's a -10% global work speed debuff on Power Armor actually, which is nowhere near enough. Power Armor should probably excluded most tasks being done, other than killing stuff or talking to people.
Just for the record here because this is a balance concern I'm jumping on uninvited, but 10% is really not enough to justify taking off power armor except for say artists. Maybe as the game grows it will become that way, but right now there are only very few jobs where that 10% penalty is going to make you want to switch gear. Once I get enough power armor and if the temperature reqs are satisfied, it's always on, the penalty is very soft.
Quote from: Enjoyment on January 21, 2015, 03:30:45 PM
You guys saying right things... and have some reasonable arguiments, but... Do you think, that Rimworld really suffers from topic-name issue. Is the external look of your pawn so emergent thing, that Ty should fix it immediatly?..
Clearly no. I wouldn't say, and I don't think many people here would claim it's an "emergent thing that needs to be fixed immediately". This is more of a background discussion and people hoping Tynan could make changes - even small ones - sometime in the future.
I'm gonna go check out that mod now.
Quote from: CrazyTalk on January 21, 2015, 11:25:13 AM
In my opinion - we're asking the wrong question here. The right questions are "Why is it advantageous for everyone to weak power armor?" and "Why does my farmer look like a space marine?"
Clothes mask the character sprites, and at this point serve two purposes - armor values and temperature protection - as such there is a 'best fit' solution - that needs to change. A farmer wearing power armor needs to be a crappy farmer - there needs to be tradeoffs to wearing different garb - the farmer is safer in his power armor, but he keeps stepping on plants and breaking his tools.
Good point. "Best fit" could be by design though, but if it's not and there are plans to spice things up in the future, then the discussion about pawn appearance being too similar becomes a moot point.
QuoteI think what I really want is a way to see and interact with them as a unique "person". I really like the idea of clothing/armor that buffs certain "jobs" and debuffs others. What about equipable "tools" that do the same thing? A farmer could equip a hoe or a seed pouch instead of a firearm (or in addition to). A miner could equip a pick, etc. That, I think, would go a long way to making colonists less generic.
+1 I like the idea of most clothing having a specific skill buff, and some a clear debuff (e.g. button up shirt - good for social, bad for manual labor). Power armor could increase strength, shooting and melee but reduce dexterity - impact crafting, cooking, etc.
To reduce the repetitiveness of switching gear prior to battle, perhaps add a button or right-click menu for colonists that is "Battle loadout" - the colonist goes to their assigned wardrobe/rack and switches their civilian clothing/tools for the last worn battle gear/weapons.
Besides those points, the "cheapest" solution to the visual problem is to add a new class of garb that is wholly superficial - e.g. facial hair, accessories - which could be selected at any time simply for the player to differentiate pawns. Unfortunately if the garb has attributes I fear that most will still be drawn to min-maxing rather than story-telling.
I would only add some facial hair :D
(http://s9.postimg.org/t6tbflf4f/faces.png)
Quote from: mrofa on January 22, 2015, 06:19:55 AM
I would only add some facial hair :D
(http://s9.postimg.org/t6tbflf4f/faces.png)
This post fills me full of rimworld joy
Tynan put in new image tags for pawn for facial hair! the modders will do te rest ;)
oh, beards and stuff would be awesome :) other than that I really wish characters had a bigger variety in skin colours.
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
For me, the problem isn't that the graphic are abstracted. It does indeed seems like a good choice for this kind of game.
My problem is that for games that last more than a year, all my characters start to look identical. They all start to wear the same armor and helmets (with a few differences). Yeah, the color varies a little bit, so does the pawns builds, but not that much.
At the start of a game, each colonist is identifiable at a glance. After a year, I need to look at their names in order to quickly id them.
I think that there are solutions to this problem though.
The first would be to let colonist store armors and weapons in a locker when they are safe. Another would be to add more variety in their equipment.
maybe we need a 'dye station' so that the colors of clothes can be customized.
There is something similar in the Edb prepare carefully mod where you can set clothes to custom colors.
synthread can be something other than the minty blue for example.
bill, dye powerarmor, set color, ingredients: power armor, berries
Quote from: OldVamp on January 23, 2015, 01:20:17 PM
maybe we need a 'dye station' so that the colors of clothes can be customized.
There is something similar in the Edb prepare carefully mod where you can set clothes to custom colors.
synthread can be something other than the minty blue for example.
bill, dye powerarmor, set color, ingredients: power armor, berries
That would be pretty good. It would definitely help with telling colonists apart. Or maybe similar to engraving weapons in the changelogs clothes could have something stitched on them.
I made an account for this comment:
I love the art style and the characters are pretty diverse and distinct. The only problem is you can only really see it if you zoom in and carefully look. My suggestion would be add a close up facial icon or full body icon on the individual character sheets so you can see the differences every time you look at the character. Perhaps also a smaller icon for each colonist on the Overlook screen. Perhaps add subtle details like a joywire artist will wear her cowboy hat slightly eschew while a commissioner will wear his cowboy hat straight. Perhaps hair can peak out under hats in the close up icons. The facial hair suggestion will help as well. Can even work with women colonists. Thicker or thinner lashes and eyebrows.
Anyway the human mind has facial recognition hardwired in our brains. You can keep it abstracted letting our minds fill in the blanks yet still help us identify each individual colonist as unique and distinct.
As mentioned by others after the first few colonists they just become a blur of haulers and cleaners and even the first colonists grow less distinct with each addition to the colony. I need more unique identifiable visual information to help solidify these characters as individual characters in my mind.
Quote from: hooc on January 23, 2015, 03:39:48 PM
My suggestion would be add a close up facial icon or full body icon on the individual character sheets so you can see the differences every time you look at the character. Perhaps also a smaller icon for each colonist on the Overlook screen...
I think that would be a good idea.
My personal preference is to not use mods, but I do have to say that the GUI mod that puts the colonist names/faces on the top of the screen is hugely appealing to me for this reason. I name my pawns a series of letters and numbers (like o7g4h3x4A8) to indicate their skills, but it also makes them even more anonymous to me. Being able to see faces might help me feel a little closer to them.
Also I'm going to try not naming them in such a manner next game but that's aside the point.
Quote from: pdxsean on January 23, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
My personal preference is to not use mods, but I do have to say that the GUI mod that puts the colonist names/faces on the top of the screen is hugely appealing to me for this reason. I name my pawns a series of letters and numbers (like o7g4h3x4A8) to indicate their skills, but it also makes them even more anonymous to me. Being able to see faces might help me feel a little closer to them.
Also I'm going to try not naming them in such a manner next game but that's aside the point.
at one point I tried to name my colonists after their two strongest skills or traits or so "Ivysoothe" for the herbalist with medical and growing skills =P "Ragegrowth" for bloodlust brawer with double flame growing
and I can recommend the Snappy dresser mod for anyone who doesn't really like using mods
(it adds a single dresser that lets you recolour your pawns clothes)
you can make them all vibrant plotches of colour and name them after fruits
Quote from: Shinzy on January 23, 2015, 07:20:56 PM
I can recommend the Snappy dresser mod for anyone who doesn't really like using mods
(it adds a single dresser that lets you recolour your pawns clothes)
you can make them all vibrant plotches of colour and name them after fruits
Can you link this please? Search isn't turning up any results besides this thread...
QuotePerhaps also a smaller icon for each colonist on the Overlook screen.
+1
Storytelling is the primary focus in this game, and I feel that a closer connection to my colonists would help those stories mean far more. I'm not going to shed a tear over Miner1 who died while digging a new tunnel, but I'm going to care about Johnny, the plucky and likable space miner from (Insert planet here). The problem is, if my colony is, say, deep in the arctic where everyone is wearing the same cold weather clothing, it gets difficult after a while to tell who is who. So many people mention names, but how do we recognize our friends on the street? Their face, their body, the clothes they wear, and their personality. If I'm in a room filled with people, and they're all white, have the same body style, are all wearing the same clothes, and have no features setting them apart, how am I realistically going to know who is who? "Bob, is that you?", I would ask, walking up to the first male I see. "Nope, it's Roger" he would say, annoyed because this is the fifth time today I've done this.
These colonists would actually mean something to me if I had a way to establish a connection with them, even if it was just a small visual element. That way, when I enlisted my entire town as an army and stood them in formation prior to the battle, I could notice blue hair poking out from under a helmet and know that it's Suzy, the cranky but hardworking chef, not Cook1.
Quote from: akiceabear on January 23, 2015, 11:34:48 PMCan you link this please? Search isn't turning up any results besides this thread...
Thar you go!
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9279.msg92080#msg92080
I haven't had troubles with bonding with any of my peoples (but then I've used some "visual enhancement" mods since alpha 5 and my guys have been looking very different from eachother)
but I'm sure as the development goes on Ty's gna add some extra flair
with that stat system in place and almost nothing taking advantage of it in vanilla
I don't quite see why pants must stay invisible?
Also, when it comes to headwear, why not let each colonist have 1 hat/helm they wear normally, and 1 hat/helm they keep in their inventory that they put on as soon as they are drafted.
That way you can have you mr. cowboy or whatever, but as soon as the battle starts he can get serious and put on the protective gear instead.
That or some designated locker that they store their equipment in when not drafted.
Maybe we should go DF style
☺
I'll join the choir here as well. The simple stylized look works well, but I'd like to have my pawns be more distinctive. They always end up all dressed in the same climate-appropriate clothing, and eventually power-armour. As pawns get killed and new ones join, it gets hard to tell them apart.
But the names.....i do get what people are saying and im one of those people who has a "uniform" i work towards for my colonists but ive never had confusion over whos who even when theyre all dressed the same, with that said I CANNOT play without EdBs interface now. I will literally wait for him to update before playing the next alpha (bar my playtime as a tester), so perhaps this is the key, does anyone using EdBs interface get confused?
Normally, I only lurk the forums. I've always wanted to participate, however I never really knew what to say, because most of my opinions are well voiced. However I haven't seen many people (if at all) defend the armor ordeal. Now again, this is just my opinion, but to me Rimworld isn't one of those very micro-managing games like Starcraft, or your other RTSes in the genre. While I realize this isn't really an RTS, let me tell you where my fear is coming in at.
People keep saying, "Nerf the power armor to the ground, to the point that anyone who wants to wear the armor wants them to be on guard duty 24/7, (the NPC in question has only combat related skills) or has to micro-manage their butts off every time an attack comes, and is defeated/left, (having to take the armor off so that they don't suffer huge demoralizing penalties)" basically. There are two skills in this game which is involved around fighting.
Shooting and melee alone determine how well they will fight in combat. (along with your micro-managing skills and base set up, but that's not a skill the NPC can level up) I would hope that this colonist is good at /something/ else, otherwise they aren't a really good colonist, unless you truly have the extra food to feed this NPC who becomes more of a burden then an actual benefit. While it is wonderful to have a hunter and fighter who is exceptional at what they do, but in the end if they haven't anything else at all, then they aren't a benefit. My point is, that after an attack, in the situation where this power armor is nerfed as heavily as people seem to want it to be, they'd be forced to micro-manage the armor of their colonists on and off for attacks.
I don't know about the rest of you, but sometimes I'm left without an attack for quite some time, but sometimes I'm with /a lot/ of attacks.. In another recent Randy Random game I actually have only been attacked /three/ times. But in my last one, I was attacked nearly immediately, and consistently every three days for almost a month. (I didn't think it was possible for them to attack in one or two days) So in this case scenario, you would force me to put my colonist in and out of all his armor every time they attack, and are defeated, simply because it's most beneficial to wear it in combat? A /very/ repetitive task, especially for something as simple as, "I don't want all of my colonists to look like troopers." However, I didn't come here just to rant, but also to offer an additional idea.
Perhaps instead of nerfing the power armor to the ground, how about buffing other 'armors'? It should satisfy both sides in this case. Have a worker's outfit, perhaps different kinds for different temperatures, which was made to aid colonists who focus on work. Say a Devilstrand worker's outfit which gives (as a full set, meaning all the pieces) 20% global work speed? (-10% for power armor, 20% for worker's outfit means a 30% difference) While you still could micro-manage the armor off and on for attacks, (and put on the worker's outfit) however it still provides a benefit for keeping the power armor on to your expertly trained warriors even in times of, 'peace'. (when you're not being attacked or suspect you're going to be for at least a bit) The benefit for your 'troops' in wearing the power armor in times of peace is because... you're always prepared for immediate attacks, or enemies who fall down on you while also satisfying the need for people not wanting all of their colonists to be wearing heavy armor when they're primarily workers.
That's my two cents! Heck, while we're throwing out ideas, the worker's outfit could also give a movement speed increase. Mainly this is so that some skills aren't left out of the loop. For example cooking is about 50% walking, so with the movement speed increase, you're also affecting the side of work where you're walking, and not only the side which is creating/destroying items/constructions. (or cleaning/hauling!)
Is it really necessary to make anything permanently set in stone? I mean, it's not as if anyone is asking for Skyrim-level graphic detail with hair and cloak blowing in the wind, highly detailed Daedric broadswords with 40 spikes growing out of every surface, amulets that prismatically refract light in every facet and dragonbone helmets that show detailed wear and dirt.
The pants request for example just asks for some simple way to recognize that a colonist is not partially naked without having to check his inventory. Being able to, at a glance, tell whether a colonist is fully clothed seems to be a worthy change, without sacrificing the simplicity of the original design.
To put another slant that may also hit home, being able to identify with and uniquely distinguish each and every colonist creates an emotional connection with the characters, so that what happens to each one (or at least some when we're talking large colonies) matters more to the player. (yes, I read at least part of your book Tynan).
these 3 mods have helped me a ton with differentiation and status
EdB Interface
Icons for each person
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=5258.0
pawn state icons
hot, cold, naked, sleepy
(would be nice if it integrated with EdB Interface)
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9163
Snappy Dresser
Recolor outfits
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=9279
Do you know of any problems with running EdB Interface and EdB Prepare Carefully along with the Epyk Pack (a collection of 44 mods ordered and tested to work together).
Quote from: GlassDeviant on January 30, 2015, 01:27:58 AM
Do you know of any problems with running EdB Interface and EdB Prepare Carefully along with the Epyk Pack (a collection of 44 mods ordered and tested to work together).
Pretty sure the Epyk Pack actually includes EdB Interface and Prepare Carefully...
Ah, you're absolutely right, they are under EdB alphabetically. I didn't look through the list thoroughly enough. Thank you.
Quote from: Dymetreus on January 29, 2015, 02:30:51 PM
<snip>
I think that power armor should be pretty much nerfed (and buffed) to were it is something that is only worth wearing during a fight
with the additon of a automated way to have colonists change between pre selected sets of clothing which would also have a wide range of additional buffs and nerfs. I commonly do recruit pawns who are only useful at combat, as long as they are VERY good at it. They hunt, and with the training mod, train all day. They form my assault squads and my vanguard.
I believe that if 'worker' pawns were far better off in 'worker' gear - preferably gear that buff/nerfs specific thing, but could also be quickly (but not instantly) changed into pre selected combat gear, it would go hand in hand with the 'everyone has a story' idea that this game is built on. We would more more reliably get 'Grizzled Joe, the hardass marine, who spends all day shooting' actually looking like his story AND standing out because 'Rose Lilly, the sweet talking cook, who spends her day talking to prisoners and prepairing food' is wearing a chef hat (for the +2 levels in cooking) and a sundress (+20% to talking), and not his power armour.
I acknowledge that changing pawns clothing and weapons before each battle, which is why I suggested a locker system as well as a 'action stations' button. Each pawn would 'own' a locker like a bed. They would also have 2 different loadouts: a standard loadout, and a 'action station' load out. When pawns were called to action (different to enlisting them - think of that more as direct control) they would go to their locker, deposit their standard clothes, equip their action loadout and then move to a dynamically selectable rally point. 'Action stations' could even be a job - click the button and the 'fighting' colonists load up and rally. To prevent people storing combat gear right on the line without thought, make lockers a possible target of raids.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on January 30, 2015, 12:37:22 PM
Quote from: Dymetreus on January 29, 2015, 02:30:51 PM
<snip>
<snip>
The advantage I mentioned, would then be swiftly departed. While the locker idea is all good for your standard attacks, but what if they /fall on top of you/? Of course this situation varies, but it's safe to say that it has a good chance to disrupt that. They'll either be in the way, on top of your colonists, etc. Especially later game when it can be Mechanoids.
You mentioned nerfed AND buffed, but didn't really explain what it should be buffed or nerfed at. You talk as if it's providing freedom, but I don't want EVERYONE to be wearing worker's gear.
Especially if that colonist is only combat oriented. It should be viable to wear on your combat colonists 24/7. Meaning their work speed should be affected, but not severely to the point that you feel forced to take it off if they are going to do anything else.
I still think the locker idea is a good one. Technically speaking it is already /only/ worth wearing during a fight, because it reduces work speed by 10%. People only wear it because either one, they are too lazy, or two, they want to be prepared for further fights which may surprise them. A buff to other/new gear would make the difference significant enough to choose in between. Never the less, I like your idea, but if the power armor honestly receives much more of a nerf, I'd probably drop it all together.
TL;DR, the locker idea is good and I'd like to see at least something like it implemented, but in the end, it wouldn't fully prepare you for enemies dropping on you. So again, the power armor doesn't need to be nerfed anymore then it already is, just simply buff up other/new gear.
That's sort of the point. You wold be force to choose between: taking the efficiency hit and having everyone 'ready to rumble' all day everyday, risk being caught unprepaired but get more done, or recruit colonist specifically to be armed guards who hang around in full combat gear all the time and deal with the extra mouths.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on January 30, 2015, 12:37:22 PM
I think that power armor should be pretty much nerfed (and buffed) to were it is something that is only worth wearing during a fight with the additon of a automated way to have colonists change between pre selected sets of clothing which would also have a wide range of additional buffs and nerfs.
I strongly agree. If the game is going to significantly penalize the player for not constantly changing his pawns outfits, then the game should provide an easy way of doing that. And by "easy" i mean automatic or semi-automatic. Trying to be "realistic" or "balanced" or whatever is never a good reason to put together game mechanics where optimal play is tedious. You shouldn't have to choose between succeeding and having fun.
But obviously if we have such a system we can't rely on outfit
at all to identify pawns, since that will be always changing.
I've always subscribed to the idea that if "realism" gets in the way of gameplay, it's not a good thing, but if it enhances the gameplay, it's a good thing. Making colonists have to run to get into their armor to be able to fight would be great for realism, but would detract from the game a little, so it puts me on the fence (much good, a little bad); however I'd probably end up not liking it in the end.
Quote from: GlassDeviant on January 31, 2015, 12:32:23 PM
I've always subscribed to the idea that if "realism" gets in the way of gameplay, it's not a good thing, but if it enhances the gameplay, it's a good thing. Making colonists have to run to get into their armor to be able to fight would be great for realism, but would detract from the game a little, so it puts me on the fence (much good, a little bad); however I'd probably end up not liking it in the end.
How does it detract from the game?
Everyone wearing power armor, or being able to swap instantly and automatically removes any decisions on inventory, which means you might as well just remove inventory - it's just a resource check at that point.
Games like this are about making meaningful choices - and for a choice to be meaningful, there has to be upsides and downsides to each option.
Mikhail is exactly right here - there should be options that are best for defense - having constant military colonists - but are resource intensive (you're feeding them but they're not working)- options that are worst for defense, but are resource light (all militia who aren't going to be ready in the "drop in" scenario) and everything in between.
With the locker system, everyone has work clothes on, and everyone has power armor in their locker - they change quickly - there's no choices there - we might as well just let everyone wear power armor and take away any downsides.
Quote from: CrazyTalk on January 31, 2015, 08:10:50 PMWith the locker system, everyone has work clothes on, and everyone has power armor in their locker - they change quickly - there's no choices there - we might as well just let everyone wear power armor and take away any downsides.
Ah but see, I envision the locker system adding more choices - do I put the lockers at everyone work station and hope that's where they are when an attack happens? do I put them all together in a secure room so worst case I fall back to there? do I put them 'on the line' so suiting up, and getting in position are the same thing and risk them being stolen/destroyed in combat?
Also, the types of armor having stats that would make them preferable to another in different circumstances would be important to - power armor giving large resilience buffs but large movement nerfs, body armour giving reasonable resilience and movement, helmets with optics that give high accuracy buffs but at reduced resilience compared to normal helmets, flight suits that offer little protection but markably increase movement speed - basically reasons to give the already fast good shooter some light gear and a sniper rifle to quickly move down the flanks, while slow strong colonists in power armour hold the line or other such scenarios.
Colonist stats could come in to play with this as well - strong colonist carry power armour better reducing the movement buff, accuracy buffs stack with colonist skills so a great shooter will benefit more from the optic helmet then a OK shooter,
Quote
I've always subscribed to the idea that if "realism" gets in the way of gameplay, it's not a good thing, but if it enhances the gameplay, it's a good thing. Making colonists have to run to get into their armor to be able to fight would be great for realism, but would detract from the game a little, so it puts me on the fence (much good, a little bad); however I'd probably end up not liking it in the end.
Quote
How does it detract from the game?
Everyone wearing power armor, or being able to swap instantly and automatically removes any decisions on inventory, which means you might as well just remove inventory - it's just a resource check at that point.
Games like this are about making meaningful choices - and for a choice to be meaningful, there has to be upsides and downsides to each option.
Mikhail is exactly right here - there should be options that are best for defense - having constant military colonists - but are resource intensive (you're feeding them but they're not working)- options that are worst for defense, but are resource light (all militia who aren't going to be ready in the "drop in" scenario) and everything in between.
With the locker system, everyone has work clothes on, and everyone has power armor in their locker - they change quickly - there's no choices there - we might as well just let everyone wear power armor and take away any downsides.
I think he's referring to the concept of realism *generally* getting in the way of well designed mechanics
On the subject of removing the intelligent decisions entirely by adding a more useful UI- Gnomoria has a quite potent Uniform system which (theoretically) allows you to change the assigned uniform of every gnome extremely easily, whereby they drop everything and go change their equipment . However - in Gnomoria- it's seldom a good idea to have all your non-soldiers do this because attacks are typically not seen with enough warning to allow you to arm all your civilians, and also the resource cost of creating all the requisite armour is exceptionally high, to the point where there are better things you could be spending your metals on.
It's also worth noting that wearing most armours in Gnomoria carries an exceptionally large speed penalty, a gnome in full metal armour can sometimes take up to 10x the time to do a simple task, it's a lot like Rimworld Brain Damage!
Useful UI and intelligent decisions aren't mutually exclusive, you can have your cake and eat it too.
Incidentally you're indulging in a bit of Reductio ad absurdum CrazyTalk :)
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
I couldn't agree more. thanks tyn
I don't want more detail, but my imagination is sabotaged by the current appearance of the pawns. I may be defective, but I don't see it and think "human", I think "crude placeholder image".
DF gets away with abstraction because it's literally using the same character for every dwarf, or at best separating by professions with graphic sets. The blobs are actually *too* detailed to trigger my imagination, I guess.
Quote from: Cerus on February 03, 2015, 06:20:47 PM
I don't want more detail, but my imagination is sabotaged by the current appearance of the pawns. I may be defective, but I don't see it and think "human", I think "crude placeholder image"
Thats more or less my opinion of them to be honest. I think that if they just were a little more 'human' like but still abstract enough for the imagination to do the rest would work wonders for them.
Jumping a lot of message here,
What I would really like is to know what my colonist are wearing just by sight.
For now I can't tell if they are wearing pant or not unless I check in the option.
This is a problem since clothes are being more and more importantto survival. They protect your colonist from both attack and weather, and from time to time you want to change.
And I also think adding "leggish" part animated or not would improve the immersion.
To get that I wouldn't mind making the colonist look smaller, we have a zoom and some colonist are already slightly bigger than cryptosleep casket.
Quote from: Kegereneku on February 10, 2015, 06:17:10 AM
Jumping a lot of message here,
What I would really like is to know what my colonist are wearing just by sight.
For now I can't tell if they are wearing pant or not unless I check in the option.
This is a problem since clothes are being more and more importantto survival. They protect your colonist from both attack and weather, and from time to time you want to change.
And I also think adding "leggish" part animated or not would improve the immersion.
To get that I wouldn't mind making the colonist look smaller, we have a zoom and some colonist are already slightly bigger than cryptosleep casket.
easiest way to fix the pants thing mite be by adding text on the side like "Colonist needs pants" or so, like all the other similar messages that appear there
Quote from: Kegereneku on February 10, 2015, 06:17:10 AM
Jumping a lot of message here,
What I would really like is to know what my colonist are wearing just by sight.
For now I can't tell if they are wearing pant or not unless I check in the option.
This is a problem since clothes are being more and more importantto survival. They protect your colonist from both attack and weather, and from time to time you want to change.
And I also think adding "leggish" part animated or not would improve the immersion.
To get that I wouldn't mind making the colonist look smaller, we have a zoom and some colonist are already slightly bigger than cryptosleep casket.
That's exactly what I noticed and still somewhat bugs me. Had more than a few colonists START the game without pants and didn't find out until mental breaks made me check "why".
Totally understand why the style was used though. And props for using a non-animated style. Moders will thank Tynan eventually for that ;) But yea, pants would be nice man lol. Eventually. Not like it's a hurry but it does feel "unfinished" without them.
Edit: So I was trying to figure out why it felt unfinished with pants because so many other clothing peaces aren't modeled ether. Think I figured it out. There's one jacket type which makes your dudes look nude underneath it. I think that's the problem spot.
^ I think it would be easy enough to pull a Veggie Tales, and just have pants etc cover the lower half(ish) of the colonist, and the shirt cover the top. As long as it doesn't look too much like a diaper. =P
lolz they all kinda remind me of kenny from south park so diapers may work :P
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
Thank you so much for this Tynan ... I believe it's the absurd simplicity of the little people that makes them so endearing to be honest. Their personalities and infinite character combinations are what make them individuals and goes back to pen & paper roleplay all the way. This game draws out the imagination and if you aren't charmed by taking care of tiny 'blobs' (my 5 year old's term) because of their text-based stories, then your imagination needs exercise like the rest. Too many games nowadays spoon feed everything including fancy flashy weapons, armor, etc. You're so right, it's much less engaging when there's no imagination at all there.
Eh... I read this post from Tynan, and although this is a logic acceptable like any other I really hope the graphic are NOT "that" final.
Compared to other game it's true that abstracted personality trait easily make a character feel more alive. But in our case the LACK OF PANTS is causing a gameplay problem as pointed out before : You need pant, you want to manage and improve pant technology, but you can't even see them. Who know if someone is wearing devilstrand or nothing unless you check ?
And speaking personally, precisely because it's a skin-color that touch the ground some character feel more like "blob" than human being, to the point I would have more emotional attachment to lemming (be it the video game one or the animal) than them (I sometime want to send my blobish colonist to their death and recruit human colonist). And generally speaking all character look to be too big for their environment and machine.
I don't suggest for more details. I wish to have the right details.
At worst I suppose there must be a mods for that somewhere...
Quote from: Kegereneku on February 11, 2015, 04:11:27 AM
I don't suggest for more details. I wish to have the right details.
I hear you about the pants issue - yes it's something you have to check for often, but don't you already check to see what pirates or corpses are wearing before stripping them for the good stuff? Micromanaging gear is just part of the game so I don't really find "Pants checks" to be that tedious for my colonists ... but then again I've never had more than 6 or 7 at one time in any of my games so far because I have been on low settings. I imagine if it's cranked up to super hard and you're dealing with 20+ colonists or enemies at once then yes it could get annoying to check pants, haha :P
Perhaps a "Gear Overview" page with the option to change out pieces would be helpful for all colonists at once.
Hell... long as my dudes don't look naked WITH clothing on.., I'll be just fine with it. Awful lot to ask peeps to ignore and no, my imagination isn't that good lol. I'll take a screeny sometime while in-game if I remember. Which is the screenshot key, printscreen?
^ F10. If you want to toggle the GUI, use F11 first.
Ah, thank you kindly sir. Will hopefully have one up tonight or tomorrow sometime. If I don't forget haha.
Pants showing in the bottom half would be nice just to know at a glance if they are wearing any. As for more complex, personally just some new hair/body/head styles would be nice once everything else on Tynan's TODO list is done. Arms and legs arnt really necessary though something to show bionics at a glance would be cool. Eyes replaced with glowing red dots. Metal shoulders/hips when naked. Superficial stuff like that. However, it shouldnt really be bothered with until all the other mechanics are done so he can do all the little things in a single pass to polish.
Somewhere I remember Tynan saying that the
design of the pawns could be changed if he finds someone who does a proper design rearrangement for him. He only said that the colonists will never be
more detailed or have more information on them.
Here I found it. If he stays true with his words the colonists may look different in the future:
QuoteIt looks a lot like Prison Architect. What's up with that?
Blame my (Tynan's) lack of art skill - especially with characters. I made the character art you see in the trailer as a stopgap, and borrowed the Prison Architect style because I'm not a good enough artist to develop a new one. They were never intended to be final. With this Kickstarter, we'll be able to get a real artist who can sit down and develop an original style for RimWorld.
Quote from: Skissor on February 12, 2015, 12:22:52 PM
Here I found it. If he stays true with his words the colonists may look different in the future....
Why would you think a really old quote is more overrides what he's said recently in the first page of this thread?
I'd prefer it if he was still open to making improvements, but he's gotta set his priorities as he thinks is best.
Quote from: Eleazar on February 12, 2015, 03:12:23 PM
Why would you think a really old quote is more overrides what he's said recently in the first page of this thread?
I'd prefer it if he was still open to making improvements, but he's gotta set his priorities as he thinks is best.
Because he didn't. I indirectly quoted him too. In this thread he said the colonists will never have a higher level of detail. He never said that the design wouldn't change. You do know that he is changing design for other stuff regularly anyway? Just look at the changelog.