I just had my first experience with this. I fail to spot a colonist walking off to take a bite out of a raider that was not yet dead the last time I looked.
Result = total of -40 mood, then they promptly went berserk. I promptly quit the game.
This 'feature' does nothing but force even more micromanagement when you are short of food.
Either allow us to set a minimum quality of meal for colonists and animals, or remove this rage inducing 'feature'. :-\
I think micromanaging food during a shortage is natural and logical.
As for setting a minimum quality food for your colonist I don't think a pawn should starve themselves to death because the player says no to eating corpses, I do however think that they should wait until they are at 25% starvation before eating animal corpses and 50% for human.
In short I quite like this feature so I say keep it.
Nooo I've been waiting for ages for this feature and you want it removed? Never!
By the way, there is a bug with food preference in A14, possibly part of the reason for your issues. But if you are totally out of food, your pawns do what they have to do to stay alive.
on the first public Alpha14 build I've had no actual issues, but I have had colonists eat raider corpses that were in a dumping stockpile, and I have no issues with it, even though one went beserk promptly after.
That -40 mood is supposed to be punishment for managing a vital resource (Food) so poorly. People do very questionable things when facing starvation sometimes, I think unless it's part of the food priority bug people report from time to time it's working as intended.
Quote from: Kashipoi on July 20, 2016, 03:03:52 PM
That -40 mood is supposed to be punishment for managing a vital resource (Food) so poorly. People do very questionable things when facing starvation sometimes, I think unless it's part of the food priority bug people report from time to time it's working as intended.
This it not about ' being punished' (jesus...) for 'managing poorly'. Starving comes with its own penalties. This is about having to play on normal speed for long periods of time because the games default behaviour is so entirely ridiculous I cannot trust it.
Forcing me to control pawns manually for 5-10 minutes after a raid just so they don't do something I don't want them to do is NOT a game play issue, it is a USER INTERFACE issue - if i forbid the items, then they will not do it.
I saw that this is a 'feature' that people requested. I have no idea why.
A similar mechanic would be: Pawns if they get unhappy commit suicide. But you can tell them not to with just a forbid button. But every time something on the map dies, everyones suicide button gets reset back to on. Forcing you to play on normal speed and micromange for... no damn reason whatsoever.
See the difference?
Humans eating raider corpses during periods of large starvation makes complete sense, and your making it seem like you can simply disable it by forbidding the corpses, so why are you upset about this?
Quote from: Dante King on July 21, 2016, 01:16:20 AM
Humans eating raider corpses during periods of large starvation makes complete sense, and your making it seem like you can simply disable it by forbidding the corpses, so why are you upset about this?
Please reread my post.
Im upset that the only way to control such behaviour is through intense micromanagement that wastes my time.
Possibly a bug, since the mechanic makes perfect sense, you have messed up and simply need to do better, aka, git gud. But I do think it's a bug or you not noticing that forbidding corpses would logically disallow colonists from eating them, but OFC I do agree on being able to control what a colonist/prisoner/tamed animal eats, I would adore that feature.
If this is a genuine bug/problem really depends a lot on bits of the situation we're not seeing...
If a colonist ran outside past a stocked freezer to eat a corpse outside, yeah this is a problem. If it was in the halls of the colony and there was barely any food and a colonist was nearby, it's working as intended.
The latter is one reason you assign a dumping zone for corpses that die in your home area, otherwise they die and end up unforbidden and you get problems.
People don't go berserk when they're forced to turn to cannibalism, there's plenty of historical evidence of that. Actually, people don't really go berserk. It's incredibly rare. The vast majority of humans do not have it in them in any way. It's a 1 in 10 million kind of thing.
We can all agree that hard mental breaks needs some major retooling.
I feel that this thread has some good things to say about this:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=21686.0 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=21686.0)
Quote from: gmillar on July 21, 2016, 05:31:35 AM
People don't go berserk when they're forced to turn to cannibalism, there's plenty of historical evidence of that. Actually, people don't really go berserk. It's incredibly rare. The vast majority of humans do not have it in them in any way. It's a 1 in 10 million kind of thing.
I second this. However, when someone does go berserk, the chances of "infecting" other people is certainly a "thing". Eating corpses ritually or as a mean of celebrating conquest has been documented among many cultures. People tend to eat what is available and most satisfying at that moment. In a time of famine, some might turn to eating rats, dogs, or horses that they would have otherwise not done. If someone is starving and the only option is a corpse, while it may not be ideal, is their only option. I imagine someone could get over the fact they are consuming a human corpse when nothing else is available, especially if the group supports one another. Doing so when you are by yourself would be considerably easier, while objections of a majority might make it a very difficult thing to do. If it isn't in your tradition, consuming someone you know would be very hard, while consuming a stranger (especially one that meant you harm) would be easier.
Rather than removing cannibalism, I'd prefer to just see the whole mood system improved. People go berserk too easily. It's a backwater colony on a world that wants you dead, you shouldn't start stabbing your mate because you have to sleep on the ground in a dirty spot for a few days.
But otherwise I think it's a neat feature. If you starve your pawns, they'll start eating corpses if it's the only food left.
I can fully agree with the cannibalism being resorted to too quickly. The problem isn't that humans resort to cannibalism, it's that they resort to it as soon as they're at the level of "starving", meaning as soon as their food gauge is empty. That's easy to do when you're on a "as soon as it comes in it goes out" level of colony early on.
What would make more sense to me would be for them to eat prepared human meat at the current stage, and then be willing to eat a corpse raw at say 30% malnutrition. I can understand it as a last resort, but it doesn't feel like my colonists are using it as a last resort.
Also I still think that acquired traits would be cool and that cannibalism would be a prime example of a good one to do.
I would dare say people shouldn't eat corpses unless either commanded, or starving intensely with no other options around. But they shouldn't if its just closer, this is dumb.
Quote from: Dante King on July 21, 2016, 03:39:22 AM
you have messed up and simply need to do better, aka, git gud.
Default tribal start with 5 randoms, ice sheet, and Cassandra Extreme. Launched the ship after 2 years.
Thanks for telling me to git gud. :D
Quote from: Kashipoi on July 21, 2016, 04:26:53 AM
The latter is one reason you assign a dumping zone for corpses that die in your home area, otherwise they die and end up unforbidden and you get problems.
This does not work. I cannot haul corpses to a dumping zone without a colonist having permission to access that dumping zone. If they have access to that dumping zone, they have access to eat the corpses there. QED.
Equally I cannot easily stop people eating corpses after a raid when some raider corpses are left unforbidden. I cannot unforbid a living raider, so after they die I have a matter of seconds on speed 3 to notice the have died before someone eats the corpse and gets -40 mood. This is impractical.
The mechanics are there to control what colonists eat, but right now they are so bad it is a huge micro hell to do it. This is not fun.
I am not against colonists being able to do this, but the default behaviour should be under my control. Ask anyone trying the tribal ice sheet start without giving themselves a ton of extra food, and you will get a similar responce. Probably including epithets concerning whoever asked for this to be added. 8)
Guess I need to mod it in myself.
Quote from: gmillar on July 21, 2016, 05:31:35 AM
People don't go berserk when they're forced to turn to cannibalism, there's plenty of historical evidence of that. Actually, people don't really go berserk. It's incredibly rare. The vast majority of humans do not have it in them in any way. It's a 1 in 10 million kind of thing.
Aye ... there was actually a very well known case of cannibalism less than 50 years ago,
when the survivors of a plane crash in a mountaineous region after a few days (waiting for rescue) had to eat the corpses of those who were not lucky enough to survive the crash (meaning that some of the survivors had to eat their friends).
It actually took more than 2 months till the survivors were rescued and they had to do lots of intelligent improvising (somehow reminding me of the people crashed in Rimworld ;) )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1972_Andes_flight_disaster#Cannibalism
And those were just normal people who were forced, by circumstances, to eat other humans
Haven't noticed this yet. Looks like playing a modded 100% cannibal colony can be even more interesting than last time! :D
Quote from: Britnoth on July 21, 2016, 12:34:01 AM
Quote from: Kashipoi on July 20, 2016, 03:03:52 PM
That -40 mood is supposed to be punishment for managing a vital resource (Food) so poorly. People do very questionable things when facing starvation sometimes, I think unless it's part of the food priority bug people report from time to time it's working as intended.
This it not about ' being punished' (jesus...) for 'managing poorly'. Starving comes with its own penalties. This is about having to play on normal speed for long periods of time because the games default behaviour is so entirely ridiculous I cannot trust it.
Forcing me to control pawns manually for 5-10 minutes after a raid just so they don't do something I don't want them to do is NOT a game play issue, it is a USER INTERFACE issue - if i forbid the items, then they will not do it.
I saw that this is a 'feature' that people requested. I have no idea why.
A similar mechanic would be: Pawns if they get unhappy commit suicide. But you can tell them not to with just a forbid button. But every time something on the map dies, everyones suicide button gets reset back to on. Forcing you to play on normal speed and micromange for... no damn reason whatsoever.
See the difference?
every human corpse is forbidden at first when they die, aren't they? So unless you unforbid them, no one would eat them, right? What am I missing?
I totally agree that the 100% game speed things forced on you when someone gets hurt is horrible, horrible, though, and I think it is one of the major problems with the game that it cannot be overridden.
Does save, exit, load reset the game speed?
If they die in your home area they start as unforbidden.
Quote from: Wex on July 23, 2016, 12:17:23 PM
If they die in your home area they start as unforbidden.
Thanks for filling in, I never noticed this.
people resort to eating grasses and dirt and dead animal carcasses waaaay before eating human carcasses
also i find it hilarious that suicide is 'too dark' for this game yet half the fandom is obsessed with the turn to cannibalism...
That and the fact a suicide game mechanic is incredibly stupid generally.
Quote from: JesterHell on July 20, 2016, 07:11:47 AM
I think micromanaging food during a shortage is natural and logical.
As for setting a minimum quality food for your colonist I don't think a pawn should starve themselves to death because the player says no to eating corpses, I do however think that they should wait until they are at 25% starvation before eating animal corpses and 50% for human.
In short I quite like this feature so I say keep it.
During a shortage is fine but I had a pawn pick up a corpse and eat it because the corpse was two squares closer than a freezer with 200+ meals in it. The prioritization is a little weird.
Quote from: Britnoth on July 21, 2016, 03:07:22 AM
Im upset that the only way to control such behaviour is through intense micromanagement that wastes my time.
Hey! What are you complaining about? EVERY GAME is just a waste of time. ;-))
One second more, one second less, it's no matter.
Wrong micromanaging teaches you for the future colonies.
Since A8 (or A9? even don't remember) when corpses were banned by default it's no problem with kitchen and anything with meat usage.
Quote from: Grax on July 24, 2016, 10:30:34 AM
Quote from: Britnoth on July 21, 2016, 03:07:22 AM
Im upset that the only way to control such behaviour is through intense micromanagement that wastes my time.
Hey! What are you complaining about? EVERY GAME is just a waste of time. ;-))
One second more, one second less, it's no matter.
Wrong micromanaging teaches you for the future colonies.
Since A8 (or A9? even don't remember) when corpses were banned by default it's no problem with kitchen and anything with meat usage.
1 more or less second wasnt the problem. 5-10 minutes on normal speed while i micro the hauling and forbidding of corpses however, was.
Human corpses were not forbidden by default, which is what let to this issue in the first place.
Quote from: Britnoth on July 25, 2016, 09:50:29 AM
1 more or less second wasnt the problem. 5-10 minutes on normal speed while i micro the hauling and forbidding of corpses however, was.
Heeeey.
Just look here. https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=13421.msg137547#msg137547
It won't take so long as you think. You just learn to micromanage. Some minutes to arrange and it'll get out of you hair forever.
Quote
Human corpses were not forbidden by default, which is what let to this issue in the first place.
Human corpses are forbidden for butchering and human meat is forbidden for kitchen by default. That's it.
Is one of your colonists named "Armin Meiwes"?
Idea :
Have a Second Level of "Starving" where eating humans corpse start looking like a possibility. (exception for cannibal)
That way you can have this level just before "dying".
To me it sound like the above would solve everything, for all other case, a minimal micromanagement is required. The game ain't gonna play itself and you are meant to deal with character with their own mentality, we call them pawn, but they aren't just brainless automation.
(while we are at it, what about someone starving going to hunt non-predator target autonomously ?)
Quote from: Kagemusha12 on July 25, 2016, 02:07:04 PM
Is one of your colonists named "Armin Meiwes"?
Nnooo, they're just beauty collectors. ;-)
Quote from: Britnoth on July 25, 2016, 09:50:29 AM
...
Human corpses were not forbidden by default, which is what let to this issue in the first place.
So your solution is to ask for the feature to be completely removed?
I would think a better, far more reasonable, suggestion would be:
"Please make all human corpses default to forbidden when a pawn dies."
Or maybe:
"Please add a single click button that mass forbids all human corpses on the map."
Asking to remove the feature completely is just overkill.
And even improbable for SURVIVAL game.
Quote from: Grax on July 25, 2016, 11:06:30 AM
Quote
Human corpses were not forbidden by default, which is what let to this issue in the first place.
Human corpses are forbidden for butchering and human meat is forbidden for kitchen by default. That's it.
No, as was explained in the thread, if they die in your home area the corpse is not forbidden by default.
I thought so too.
Corpse is not forbidden, meat is forbidden if there's butchery in touch.
Or you didn't arrange the burial place or corpse storage?
What's the problem?
Fck, guys, learn how to play already, why don't you?
Quote from: Grax on July 28, 2016, 06:09:50 PM
Corpse is not forbidden, meat is forbidden if there's butchery in touch.
Or you didn't arrange the burial place or corpse storage?
What's the problem?
Fck, guys, learn how to play already, why don't you?
Pawns will eat corpses out of corpse storage.
Pawns will eat corpses before they get buried.
Please learn to play the game first before swearing at people that have. 8)
Quote from: erdrik on July 27, 2016, 07:42:40 PM
So your solution is to ask for the feature to be completely removed?
Or let us actually control the quality of meals our pawns are allowed to eat, rather than running the game on normal speed checking if they are eating corpses / raw meat instead of waiting for the cook to make a meal every time I play on the ice sheet. Someone else who cannot even bother to read the opening post....
Quote from: Britnoth on July 29, 2016, 03:20:25 AM
Pawns will eat corpses out of corpse storage.
Pawns will eat corpses before they get buried.
Wtf? They're starving or what? You have no other food?
I've NEVER seen any human eating corpses. Cooked meals with human meat maybe, but not corpses.
The ideal solution to this I think is adding a way to control what pawns (and preferably animals too) get to eat - similar to how you set allowed medicine, or allowed clothing in the manage tab.
That would let you disallow human corpses (probably a good default), while not breaking canibal tribes and the like.
It would be nice if my pawns didn't just randomly eat all the lavish meals stored for emergencies when thy didn't need to - and restrict my dogs to eating kibble rather than wandering the base and eating all the best human-foods.
-Stigma
Quote from: Britnoth on July 29, 2016, 03:20:25 AM
Quote from: erdrik on July 27, 2016, 07:42:40 PM
So your solution is to ask for the feature to be completely removed?
Or let us actually control the quality of meals our pawns are allowed to eat, rather than running the game on normal speed checking if they are eating corpses ... Someone else who cannot even bother to read the opening post....
You are the one making assumptions here.
I read the entire thread.
Quote from: Britnoth on July 20, 2016, 06:38:16 AM
...
Either allow us to set a minimum quality of meal for colonists and animals, or remove this rage inducing 'feature'. :-\
You did
not make a reasonable suggestion.
You made an ultimatum. Which is incredibly rude and disrespectful to the dev, not to mention completely impotent.
You are not in a position to be handing out ultimatums. As Tynan has no obligations to one.
Im not opposed to being allowed to control the quality of meals colonists chose to eat.
But demanding an "Either, Or" situation is just asking to be negatively criticized.(
and deservedly so)
Quote from: Britnoth on July 20, 2016, 06:38:16 AM
I just had my first experience with this. I fail to spot a colonist walking off to take a bite out of a raider that was not yet dead the last time I looked.
Result = total of -40 mood, then they promptly went berserk. I promptly quit the game.
This 'feature' does nothing but force even more micromanagement when you are short of food.
Either allow us to set a minimum quality of meal for colonists and animals, or remove this rage inducing 'feature'. :-\
I dunno, that sounds just about spot on... dude is STARVING and there's a juicy raider right there to eat. Nomnomnom.. OMG what have I done? I just ATE A person!!! OMGINSANITY!
I think the game is functioning as intended.
Quote from: erdrik on July 29, 2016, 05:04:19 PMYou made an ultimatum.
#
This is clearly false. I did not threaten anyone or anything. Stop with the trolling.
Quote from: Britnoth on August 05, 2016, 06:24:40 PM
Quote from: erdrik on July 29, 2016, 05:04:19 PMYou made an ultimatum.
#
This is clearly false. I did not threaten anyone or anything. Stop with the trolling.
I think you need to stop trolling and learn to feed your pawns. They only eat corpses when they're starving and there is no food.
Quote from: Reviire on August 05, 2016, 08:24:37 PM
I think you need to stop trolling and learn to feed your pawns. They only eat corpses when they're starving and there is no food.
I am well aware of what they are doing thank you. I did spend the afternoon modding this broken behaviour out.
Maybe you should play on the ice sheet; it might change your tune.
Quote from: Britnoth on August 10, 2016, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Reviire on August 05, 2016, 08:24:37 PM
I think you need to stop trolling and learn to feed your pawns. They only eat corpses when they're starving and there is no food.
I am well aware of what they are doing thank you. I did spend the afternoon modding this broken behaviour out.
Maybe you should play on the ice sheet; it might change your tune.
...... Not everything in the game has to be balanced around ice sheets. In fact,
nothing in the game should be balanced with ice sheets in mind.
You are literally dropping your colonists into the most inhospitable environment on the planet, and you get pissy when non-cannibals are forced to eat humans, due to a lack of other food?
Game: working as intended.
The only issue I could see here is if colonists were prioritizing eating off corpses if meals were present, which was an issue in previous builds with colonists going after worse meals when better ones were nearby.
If that isn't the case, then maybe you should prioritize your food storage better if colonists are having to resort to raw cannibalism. If you're complaining about this and you're living in an area such as ice sheets or extreme desert, then maybe you weren't just up for the challenge, eh? ;D
on a slightly unrelated topic, what's the frequency of raids in an ice sheet compared to phoebe?
it's been awhile since i've last played in icesheets and the newer alphas was already tweaked to prevent raids from spawning during extreme temperatures..
so on an extremely cold/hot biome, this means that raids are gonna be far and few in between. so what's the average number of raids in an icesheet? is it comparable to phoebe on a temperate biome?
i'm guessing that ever since they changed the raid spawns in extreme temp, extreme biomes would actually get less raids than normal biomes on the same level of difficulty.
Quote from: Goldenpotatoes on August 10, 2016, 03:30:05 PM
The only issue I could see here is if colonists were prioritizing eating off corpses if meals were present, which was an issue in previous builds with colonists going after worse meals when better ones were nearby.
If that isn't the case, then maybe you should prioritize your food storage better if colonists are having to resort to raw cannibalism. If you're complaining about this and you're living in an area such as ice sheets or extreme desert, then maybe you weren't just up for the challenge, eh? ;D
Even if that was the case it is not an issue with "humans eating human corpses", so much as an issue with "colonists not properly prioritizing available meals".
In which case demanding the removal of "humans eating human corpses" is still unwarranted and miss-aimed overkill.
Quote from: Boston on August 10, 2016, 03:05:42 PM
Quote from: Britnoth on August 10, 2016, 01:58:35 PM
Quote from: Reviire on August 05, 2016, 08:24:37 PM
I think you need to stop trolling and learn to feed your pawns. They only eat corpses when they're starving and there is no food.
I am well aware of what they are doing thank you. I did spend the afternoon modding this broken behaviour out.
Maybe you should play on the ice sheet; it might change your tune.
...... Not everything in the game has to be balanced around ice sheets. In fact, nothing in the game should be balanced with ice sheets in mind.
You are literally dropping your colonists into the most inhospitable environment on the planet, and you get pissy when non-cannibals are forced to eat humans, due to a lack of other food?
Game: working as intended.
You still seem totally incapable of even the most basic of reading comprehension. So let me make it perfectly clear to you.
MY MOD DOES NOT CHANGE GAMEPLAY IN ANY WAY.
The game lets you control what pawns eat. Unfortunately the way it does this is extremely micromanagent intensive and therefore very, very annoying to do.
My mod stops them doing it unless I explicitly tell them to do so, instead of explicitly telling them not to do so. Repeatedly. Every damn corpse at a time.
Change to gameplay = zero.
Change to my mood = much better.
QuoteGame: working as intended.
I repeat.
Change to gameplay = zero.
Quote from: Britnoth on August 13, 2016, 09:30:42 PM
...
MY MOD DOES NOT CHANGE GAMEPLAY IN ANY WAY.
The game lets you control what pawns eat. Unfortunately the way it does this is extremely micromanagent intensive and therefore very, very annoying to do.
My mod stops them doing it unless I explicitly tell them to do so, instead of explicitly telling them not to do so. Repeatedly. Every damn corpse at a time.
Change to gameplay = zero.
...
Pawns eating things is a Gameplay Mechanic.
Being able to control what pawns eat is a Gameplay Mechanic.
Changing how you control what pawns eat is a change to Gameplay Mechanics.
If you want to make a mod to change a Gameplay Mechanic to something more bearable to you, you are free to do so and I would happily applaud your ingenuity for doing so.
Quote from: Britnoth on August 13, 2016, 09:30:42 PMThe game lets you control what pawns eat. Unfortunately the way it does this is extremely micromanagent intensive and therefore very, very annoying to do.
My mod stops them doing it unless I explicitly tell them to do so, instead of explicitly telling them not to do so. Repeatedly. Every damn corpse at a time.
Hello,
I agree with you.
May I convince you to share your mod with us ? It certainly sounds like something I and other players could enjoy.
Maybe you already did, and I didn't look in the right places ?