[1.0] Orassans 🐱

[Goldenpotatoes]

If this was the case, my Raiderpedes mod would be extremely hated. Since they overwrite the pirate faction def to put them as a pawn in the raids. However nobody noticed this. In reality small changes are good since they really don't impact much.


Edit: However this entire argument was stupid and to think that it wasted over 7 hours of everybody in the argument's time is ludicrous.

Pretty sure the point of the argument is that they removed power armor from being something that can spawn with spacers and didn't bother mentioning it because they personally didn't see the issue. Most people aren't going to care about the underlining method of adding/changing your content as long as you actually tell them what it effects gameplay-wise.

Montezuma probably pushed it a bit too much due to their own issues with the mod but it's still a valid point.

[DiamondBorne]

There are 2 identical childhood backstories in the latest update(Bully). Might be just a little rebundancy.

For anyone interest, i modified the backstory names to include the word Orassan infront of any backstory that explicitly said that it was an Orassan origins. To better help organize and unclutter all the new custom alien backstories when using Preparecarefully mod. I also removed said rebundant code above.


[attachment deleted by admin: too old]

[Diana Winters]

There are 2 identical childhood backstories in the latest update(Bully). Might be just a little rebundancy.

For anyone interest, i modified the backstory names to include the word Orassan infront of any backstory that explicitly said that it was an Orassan origins. To better help organize and unclutter all the new custom alien backstories when using Preparecarefully mod. I also removed said rebundant code above.

I will double check this when I return to my computer; but i do remember that 2 of them are very similar

Edit: Whoopsies, good catch

[Skcuske_Lobuk]

If this was the case, my Raiderpedes mod would be extremely hated. Since they overwrite the pirate faction def to put them as a pawn in the raids. However nobody noticed this. In reality small changes are good since they really don't impact much.


Edit: However this entire argument was stupid and to think that it wasted over 7 hours of everybody in the argument's time is ludicrous.

Pretty sure the point of the argument is that they removed power armor from being something that can spawn with spacers and didn't bother mentioning it because they personally didn't see the issue. Most people aren't going to care about the underlining method of adding/changing your content as long as you actually tell them what it effects gameplay-wise.

Montezuma probably pushed it a bit too much due to their own issues with the mod but it's still a valid point.

Just edit the xml files if you don't like it. If you are too lazy to do this, please don't have a tantrum over here. Only have a tantrum if your XML edit doesn't work, in which we will provide support.

[IHateRegistering]

Just edit the xml files if you don't like it. If you are too lazy to do this, please don't have a tantrum over here. Only have a tantrum if your XML edit doesn't work, in which we will provide support.

Man, you're a comedy gold mine, can't make that shit up. You are even bad at passive-aggressive parroting. You should never throw a tantrum because that's what spoiled children do.

[Ramsis]

Monty has been banned for two weeks. I grow tired of watching slap fights that go nowhere, at least bite or kick each other as well...

Behave, or I won't hold back on passing out the bans! 8D

[kubolek01]

Monty has been banned for two weeks. I grow tired of watching slap fights that go nowhere, at least bite or kick each other as well...

Behave, or I won't hold back on passing out the bans! 8D

We behave well, don't we? Bans are for reallly evil scums only.

[BlueTressym]

I'm not in the mood constantly looking through all my mods and see what the author has changed behind my back. Just stop constantly suggesting me to edit xml files. Thank you.

First off, nobody has changed anything behind your back, you are acting incredibly arrogant by saying this as authors have no obligation to fulfil your needs or to exercise care in making a mod. There is no negligence torts for mods, so if you don't like it, don't use it.

Second off, you are the person that has it installed, the author has no obligation to feed your likes or dislikes and can do whatever they want with it. If you don't like this, you can change it back in the XML. If you are too lazy to do this, please don't have a tantrum over here. Only have a tantrum if your XML edit doesn't work, in which we will provide support.

I completely agree that Montezuma has been an a**e throughout this.  However, editing XML files is not something that is as easy for everyone as those who know how make out.  Please don't take for granted that "laziness" is the only reason for someone to decide that don't want to change things in XML; for some of us it's more because we don't want to screw it up.  Just so you know, I have tried doing tinkering in the XML and some worked, but some royally ballsed things up. 

Furthermore, I must respectfully disagree with the assertions made here that modders do not have any responsibility to others when releasing mods.  Yes, if you are creating a mod for your own use, fine.  When, however, you are making something available that could potentially cause problems for others, then yes, you DO have a responsibility to make sure such potential is minimised.  Legal obligation?  No.  Moral obligation?  YES!  It is upsetting for people to find out that adding a mod has screwed their game up or caused something they didn't want.  No, there's no point being arsey about it but to say that people aren't allowed to be upset is really not fair or reasonable. 

A modder does, out of practicality if nothing else (getting numerous complaints from annoyed players isn't fun), have a duty of care in making sure that at their end the likelihood of problems is minimised and that the information about changes is made clear so that people know what they are getting into.  That way, they can make an INFORMED decision about whether or not to add the mod in question

I haven't for a moment supposed that the omission of the info that the Power Armour had the 'Spacer' tag removed by the mod was done other than because, as the author has stated, it didn't seem a problem for her. 

In any case, though, when you are making stuff that can affect other people's game, then letting THEM decide whether it's a problem is the more considerate thing to do.  This is particularly the case when "Just remove it" is not something can be done without the risk of screwing up the save.  As previously stated, that particular minor change can be reversed, as the author has described.  The principle of "Only the mod-maker's needs and wants matter" that several commenters have espoused though, seems a pretty self-centred one. 

All in all, "Orassans" is a wonderful mod; some give and take on all sides when it comes to resolving problems seems reasonable enough. 

[Diana Winters]

I completely agree that Montezuma has been an a**e throughout this.  However, editing XML files is not something that is as easy for everyone as those who know how make out.  Please don't take for granted that "laziness" is the only reason for someone to decide that don't want to change things in XML; for some of us it's more because we don't want to screw it up.  Just so you know, I have tried doing tinkering in the XML and some worked, but some royally ballsed things up. 

Furthermore, I must respectfully disagree with the assertions made here that modders do not have any responsibility to others when releasing mods.  Yes, if you are creating a mod for your own use, fine.  When, however, you are making something available that could potentially cause problems for others, then yes, you DO have a responsibility to make sure such potential is minimised.  Legal obligation?  No.  Moral obligation?  YES!  It is upsetting for people to find out that adding a mod has screwed their game up or caused something they didn't want.  No, there's no point being arsey about it but to say that people aren't allowed to be upset is really not fair or reasonable. 

A modder does, out of practicality if nothing else (getting numerous complaints from annoyed players isn't fun), have a duty of care in making sure that at their end the likelihood of problems is minimised and that the information about changes is made clear so that people know what they are getting into.  That way, they can make an INFORMED decision about whether or not to add the mod in question

I haven't for a moment supposed that the omission of the info that the Power Armour had the 'Spacer' tag removed by the mod was done other than because, as the author has stated, it didn't seem a problem for her. 

In any case, though, when you are making stuff that can affect other people's game, then letting THEM decide whether it's a problem is the more considerate thing to do.  This is particularly the case when "Just remove it" is not something can be done without the risk of screwing up the save.  As previously stated, that particular minor change can be reversed, as the author has described.  The principle of "Only the mod-maker's needs and wants matter" that several commenters have espoused though, seems a pretty self-centred one. 

All in all, "Orassans" is a wonderful mod; some give and take on all sides when it comes to resolving problems seems reasonable enough.

As I said earlier; I did mention that the spacer tag was removed from power armor back in A14, but those patch notes have since been removed to save space on the page. That guy was just looking for something to attack me on. And I use my mod, so I wouldn't like it if it broke my game (functionally), but since I don't plan on removing it,  I don't really care if it would break my saves if I removed it. Not that there is much I can do about it breaking saves if removed, as it adds new content (especially research.)

And editing XML is fairly easy in terms of balancing. Literally all you have to change are numerical values. I had 0 experience with XML when I started making this mod. All it is is copy/pasting vanilla XML and replacing a few words. Your complaints would be more valid if you had to edit C# to make balance changes, but you don't need to do so.

It is also very entitled of you to think that you are owed something from someone for free. I make $0 from this mod. I primarily make it for myself, for my own amusement. So yes, my own interests for the mod are foremost. It is not self-centered for a mod user to acknowledge that the mod maker does not have to share their mods and that the creator of the mod can do with it what they wish.

I do take into account what users say and try to fix bugs that they report, but my opinions are what are the most important for the content of this mod.

[Jdalt40]

No, there's no point being arsey about it but to say that people aren't allowed to be upset is really not fair or reasonable. 

To be honest I was just getting sick of it. You bring up some good points and I may have been harsh on my words, but it wasn't just about him being upset about it. I'd respect him if he was actually upset and handled the situation without going over the top, but when somebody is having a tantrum and is bringing no worthwhile communication to a thread which is made supposed to either support the mod or bring constructive criticism. It is probably time to tell the person to stop having a tantrum and change the XML himself, since he was well aware on how to change the XML. If he brought it up like "Hey Diana, I just noticed that power armour was removed from the spacer tag, are you able to change this?", he would've gotten a lot more support than being an general ass.

However I support your view on this about my comment before, it could've been a lot less harsh.

[Kiame]

I've been watching this unfold for a while now and i want to send some support for you Diana Winters; it sucks when modders offer things for free and get unnecessary backlash. It takes what should be fun and a community endeavor and makes it a chore.

Documentation of any kind for software development is (and probably always will be) a nightmare (i live it daily for work ). One suggestion is try to keep the first post as a living document. As people find quirks or things that are not mentioned, add them as a bullet list of things. Initially it's a PITA but once it's up-to-date it's rare it will ever have to be updated. In the future if anyone ever says, "What does this mod do?" they just have to look at the first page to know.

Let me be clear though, this is just a suggestion and I do not mean to say it should be done this way. As a free service it's totally up to you how you want to handle things! (i don't even follow this 'suggestion' in all of my mods  )

[Oblitus]

I've been watching this unfold for a while now and i want to send some support for you Diana Winters; it sucks when modders offer things for free and get unnecessary backlash. It takes what should be fun and a community endeavor and makes it a chore.

That's huge lie about mods being free for the user. User is investing his time to explore offered content. So by creating bad content you are stealing people's time. A lot of time, usually. And spoiling their experience with a game they otherwise like.

[Kiame]

That's huge lie about mods being free for the user. User is investing his time to explore offered content. So by creating bad content you are stealing people's time. A lot of time, usually. And spoiling their experience with a game they otherwise like.

It's a choice by users to use mods. It should be known that not all mods are made equal and mods that are deficient should be called out respectfully.

In the case of this mod there's nothing 'broken' IMO. And the definition of 'broken' will be different from one person to the next. I see a mod that's OP and i say that's 'broken' to myself, others may like that. Some mods could corrupt files - i know i've uploaded a fix to one of my mods that did this - and once someone mentioned it I quickly fixed it with an apology.

By far with this game - just in the shear number of used mods - the majority of modders are not out to hurt others. If the modder is new to a game or even modding in general mistakes will be made. Heck even experienced modders will add something that'll cause something to go wrong.

Users who decide to go off the beaten path of highly tested code which is the base game are taking a risk. The payouts can be huge. But like any dungeon crawl there will be times of frustration.

In my mind modding is a community endeavor. Mods are basically untested products - sure the modders will hopefully have done testing on their side but for the most part not extensive. Everyone in the community should work together in improving mods which are problematic.

What doesn't work are users is name calling and accusations of deceit on the part of the modders. In the same way modders should not imply commenters are out to get them or destroy their reputations. (Not calling anyone out for any of this in this theard - that's already been addressed by the forum admins)

I don't want to hijack this thread - which should only be on the Orassans  - I'd be happy to take this out to another thread if desired! (Sorry for the partial hijack Diana Winters)

[Diana Winters]

I've been watching this unfold for a while now and i want to send some support for you Diana Winters; it sucks when modders offer things for free and get unnecessary backlash. It takes what should be fun and a community endeavor and makes it a chore.

That's huge lie about mods being free for the user. User is investing his time to explore offered content. So by creating bad content you are stealing people's time. A lot of time, usually. And spoiling their experience with a game they otherwise like.

You make it sound like I'm some kind of vampire that can feed off your lifeforce to steal time from you. No. I do not force you to use my mod, you choose to spend your time using it. Your point would also be more valid if my mod actually broke the game, which it does not do. (Unless you use a conflicting mod, I suppose, but there is little incentive for me to make a patch (if I am even able to) unless I use said mod myself.)

And bad content? Rude. How would you like it if I told you that your content sucked and it was stealing my time?

[Ramsis]

I've been watching this unfold for a while now and i want to send some support for you Diana Winters; it sucks when modders offer things for free and get unnecessary backlash. It takes what should be fun and a community endeavor and makes it a chore.

That's huge lie about mods being free for the user. User is investing his time to explore offered content. So by creating bad content you are stealing people's time. A lot of time, usually. And spoiling their experience with a game they otherwise like.

Sheesh keep up the salty attitude and we'll see where on my ban-dartboard you land. Looking at a healthy two weeks but I mean hey, on a good day I'm not opposed to three weeks. Instead of attacking why not stay on the passive side of things, it slows down internal problems and keeps people like me from having to step in just for the sake of a slap in the mouth.

Or keep posting as you are, I'm good for some fun.