Tribes Vs. Colonies.

[boates]

     In short Tribes need a major buff, (or at least be labeled as more challenging than colonies.) and for many different reasons. Not sure if this has already been posted, but I love playing as a tribe and I've just noticed somethings that are relatively problematic with playing as one. I figured I'd make another lost post in all the posts on the forums to initiate discussion.
     1. Tribes can't even begin to fight machines, not until the very late game. Bow and arrows just don't do all that well against centipedes (Especially with inferno blasters.) And maybe you get lucky and get some EMP's and charged rifles. But without some significant pirate drops that you manage to kill, you can just call it a done deal. I know that normally machines don't drop until fairly late, but if they drop too early it can be devastating for a tribe.
     2. Colonies get a better chance to recruit pirates, while tribes get a better chance at recruiting tribes, pirates are normally who you are fighting. Since raids are ironically the main way of gaining recruits, Colonies have a better chance at gaining them. Unless you are at war with a tribe. Which for a tribe can cause a number of problems.
     3. Being at war with a tribe as a tribe. Since numbers is your primary advantage as a tribe, when you are at war with a tribe that advantage is taken away. The main way I've found of dealing with tribes insane numbers is having a lot of fire in a limited area. But as a tribe facing a tribe, the opposing tribe will always be much better than you in firepower and melee, and there are a lot less tactical options available to you, unless you set some really good traps. Which can be difficult outside of mountain type terrain.
     All this coupled with the staggeringly low research speed just makes tribes much more challenging than colonies. However facing pirates as a tribe is almost always very easy. As you normally have the numbers advantage and can ambush them around corners and kill them quickly. The problem becomes if you loose even one person it's very difficult to get them back.

[iamthepenthief]

The research speed...
you should be able to level up your tech level. Say once you learn all the neolithic skills your tech should upgrade to medieval... finish medieval and tech uogrades to industrial. They might curb the research struggle...

[BlackSmokeDMax]

The thing I do to speed up tribal research is shifts! As soon as I get a research bench, I assign my 2nd best researcher (or the best if the person is a night owl- bonus!) to the night shift. This way research is being done almost all day. As you get more pawns, you could always add more research benches as well. You'd be surprised how fast you can get things researched with adding some manpower to the effort.

[RazorHed]

If you dont want to be in a war with a tribe , then after you convert a few prisoners then capture/cure/release them till they become friendlies

[Mutineer]

I basically agree with original poster. One need to understand mechanics mach better to survive as a tribe even on low difficulty.

[Harold3456]

The tech thing has been posted to death (which should be a good indicator that players want it)! I personally love the idea of "research all neolithic to go to Medieval" and so on. It's an organic way to encourage players to work slowly up the tech tree, as opposed to skipping all the basics to get to mech suits and futuristic guns, while still giving them the option to do the latter.

[mew_the_pinkmin]

Grenades kill Mechs!!! there is almost always a grenadier among pirate raids, even early game.

[BetaSpectre]

RNG, Mechs early game before you get decent stuff from raiders is GG. You should tame animals if you can they help alot with fighting.

[Shurp]

Don't forget that you can speed up research with multiple benches.

From what I can tell great bows are pretty good weapons.  You're having trouble fighting mechs with them?  Grenades of course work well too if you can get them.  Build *walls* for cover (not sandbags, don't hide behind trees) when fighting inferno cannons.

Recruitment difficulty sounds like it could be a serious issue.  If you intentionally go to war with townies are you able to recruit them?

[boates]

Recruitment difficulty sounds like it could be a serious issue.  If you intentionally go to war with townies are you able to recruit them?

Yeah, the recruitment ratio only changes for the crash pod survivors. I believe pirates are lumped into the colonist category. So your recruitment chance with them is the same as the pirates. I've done a pretty long save file game where I fight towns and my recruitment chance for them is absolute crud. Normally around 90 to 99%

[Shurp]

So to get recruits you have to pick a fight with tribals. Who will at least pour into your killbox... But without turrets. Sounds like quite a challenge.  If it is a big killbox you can at least use great now range to kill chargers as they come at you...

[Britnoth]

RNG, Mechs early game before you get decent stuff from raiders is GG. You should tame animals if you can they help alot with fighting.

Mechanoids cannot raid you until day 45. If you sit on your hands for that long and die, it serves you right.

This whole thread is ridiculous. Tribals are supposed to be a tougher start. This is not a multiplayer wargame.

[boates]

RNG, Mechs early game before you get decent stuff from raiders is GG. You should tame animals if you can they help alot with fighting.

Mechanoids cannot raid you until day 45. If you sit on your hands for that long and die, it serves you right.

This whole thread is ridiculous. Tribals are supposed to be a tougher start. This is not a multiplayer wargame.

I never said it should be even. However to make Tribals viable they do need some source of actually obtaining new people, because people are going to die in real rimworld games. I also said that they should at least in form you that tribes aren't as easy as colonies, not that Colonies and Tribes should necessarily be the same difficulty. Did you read the post?

[Shurp]

Is there any way to code population maximums to the type of start?  It would be interesting if Tribal players had the opportunity to build larger colonies than other types.  It'd be an advantage partially offsetting the disadvantages that would encourage a different style of play.

[Britnoth]

Did you read the post?

Sadly.

     In short Tribes need a major buff, (or at least be labeled as more challenging than colonies.) and for many different reasons. Not sure if this has already been posted, but I love playing as a tribe and I've just noticed somethings that are relatively problematic with playing as one. I figured I'd make another lost post in all the posts on the forums to initiate discussion.
     1. Tribes can't even begin to fight machines, not until the very late game. Bow and arrows just don't do all that well against centipedes (Especially with inferno blasters.) And maybe you get lucky and get some EMP's and charged rifles. But without some significant pirate drops that you manage to kill, you can just call it a done deal. I know that normally machines don't drop until fairly late, but if they drop too early it can be devastating for a tribe.
     2. Colonies get a better chance to recruit pirates, while tribes get a better chance at recruiting tribes, pirates are normally who you are fighting. Since raids are ironically the main way of gaining recruits, Colonies have a better chance at gaining them. Unless you are at war with a tribe. Which for a tribe can cause a number of problems.
     3. Being at war with a tribe as a tribe. Since numbers is your primary advantage as a tribe, when you are at war with a tribe that advantage is taken away. The main way I've found of dealing with tribes insane numbers is having a lot of fire in a limited area. But as a tribe facing a tribe, the opposing tribe will always be much better than you in firepower and melee, and there are a lot less tactical options available to you, unless you set some really good traps. Which can be difficult outside of mountain type terrain.
     All this coupled with the staggeringly low research speed just makes tribes much more challenging than colonies. However facing pirates as a tribe is almost always very easy. As you normally have the numbers advantage and can ambush them around corners and kill them quickly. The problem becomes if you loose even one person it's very difficult to get them back.

Tribes do not need a 'buff' as balance between the starts is not something that is intended or required.

Plus, if it is not blindingly obvious that a scenario involving tribals running away from their village and starting with malnutrition isn't supposed to be a tough start, I don't know what is.

1. No mechanoid raids before day 45. You have ample time to research and build up weapons to deal with them. It isn't like a conventional mechanoid raid isnt a joke anyway. Ship parts can be cheesed after they land.

2. Tribal raids are 2-3 times the size of pirates later on. With adequate defences tribals end up with more people than colonies, not less. Most tribals seems to have better skills than pirates, too.

3. Tribals also have an easier time with early raids if are forced to fight. Five days in and you have 6 people and 3 dogs, enough to not be outnumbered even by a tribal raid attacking you. I suggest you learn to use traps properly.