Hello everybody,
I have a little idea i would like to see in vanilla game. How about adding a butchering spot. It might work like this:
-collonist have to be equiped with shiv/knife/sword to do the butchering
-less effective than butchering table (in sense of time or amount of meat received or both)
Considering that you usually start with edged weapon it would make sense. Also, take the situation when traveling and have to stop the caravan at place with barely enough wood to make a campfire or maybe after some tough raid when you need to feed the collonists urgently instead of cutting wood and making new butchering table.
I know there are already some mods for butchering spot but as far as I know they doesn't have the necessity to have the edged weapon which I consider being important in view of realism...
I nodded while reading this.
Actually, I had a desire to make MOD to makes knife as speedup tool for cooking(of course including butchering) and a harvesting. But on this point, your idea has reality than me.
And this will also help the game start in areas where nothing trees, and initial resources are difficult to obtain. If random start becomes easier it will make it easier to enjoy the features of various environments.
I think it will lead to good change.
while i do agree on butchering spots to be implemented into vanilla, i dont think it is a good idea to use any kind of system that checks for what weapon you are holding and according to that will make your task go faster or slower. butcher tables already dont require a knife, why would butcher spots? crafting spots dont require additional crafting tools either...
Quotebutcher tables already dont require a knife, why would butcher spots? crafting spots dont require additional crafting tools either...
Table include Knife set. (it's like kitchen storing knives) It is obvious if you imagine it slightly. This is point I felt reality in this idea than my idea.
sick puppy I got your point there and TBH I also don t think that having specific item should speed up some process like OopsLoops suggests but I agree with OopsLoops that butchering table already has a knife as a part of it.
Think about edged weapon necessity on butchering spot like this:
Can one butcher an animal by hand? I would say not, on the other hand, can one produce a shiv or club just by hand? I guess yeah kind of, like take a piece of rock, beat the sh*t out of it with another piece of rock till it gets some shape and voila you got yourself a club or shiv without a specific tool necessity. On the other hand I cannot imagine how one could extract a rib-eye steak without an edged weapon... and how about leather which also drops when butchering? Cannot be just torn away by hand IMO... That is my logic behind it...
I don't want to switch my cook's weapon every time he enters/leaves combat. Realistic, but not convenient for the gameplay.
For convenience u have your butchering table already.. This has totally different purpose.. Actually now it is pretty inconvenient to be forced to make butchering table everytime u have to stop somewhere and process some food during journeys to actually feed your colonist if u run out of reserves for example..
so butchering tables have all the tools for butchering and crafting spots dont need any tools? even your example itself says it: you need a rock to beat something else with it. the rock is a primitive NEOLITHIC tool. and i argue that you do indeed need tools, if primitive ones, to make stuff at crafting spots. crafting spots can produce shivs, clubs, shortbows, smokeleaf joints and tribalwears. tribalwear could be sewn with a needle made from bone or wood, maybe even the needle of a cactus or poisonous animal, heck maybe even a cobra's fangs could be used as improvised needles. otherwise it's gonna be hard to make a tribalwear from large pieces of leather and fur. shortbows need string. you dont have to pay for it, but the string has to come from somewhere, so...lastly, ever blazed the devil's weed? you CAN make it from hand without any tools, but come on, then it's gonna taste like your hand sweat. everyone uses tools for it and they are very simple ones at that. if neolithic people had 420, they sure as hell used tools early on to make it.
you can increase the workspeed of crafting spots with tool cabinets by the same percentage as any other workbench. so either none of the spots and workbenches have tools and you dont need any because you do everything by hand or all of them have and you do use them, but the tool cabinet has better quality ones (like wooden knives in comparison to steel knives)
now which one is it? do all of them have tools included? you might wonder how one can just "create" tools by putting work spots everywhere. well, seems like it, since the tools arent included in the game itself (as in code) one can assume that we do indeed get free tools. just like we get free butcher knives from metal when we build a butcher table put of wood or stone only.
the other option would be that aside from tool cabinets there arent any tools in the game and your pawns use their minecraft skills of punching blocks to mine, chop wood, clean the floors, operate and build stuff which makes kinda sense in the context of the game as they dont use ammo either.
if you want your pawns to have to use knives on the butcher spot you also have to make them carry axes to fell trees and pickaxes to mine, scalpels to do surgeries, hammers to build stuff and cutlery to eat and cook. i believe in vanilla this would be very bad.
and now if we dont have any tools seperate from workbenches in the game (neither coded nor implied) then that would mean that the tool cabinet has an important role logically
by the way, if you have seen a little movie called cannibal holocaust (18+) you would know that it is entirely possible to skin animals with your bare hands. pretty sure this is true for most things in rimworld
While I do agree that a temporary food production spot for butchering is something that could be useful, needing a certain weapon to use it is needlessly complicating things. It is already assumed that pawns use tools for their jobs. Axes to cut down trees, belt knives to harvest plants and perform miscellaneous tasks (such as improvised butchering at a spot on the ground - hint hint). If you want to add tools directly to the game, then look for a mod or use them as inventory-held modifiers rather than a micro-intensive equipping process.
Yes, we mostly using built-in tools in working space. it is not so many carry tools in us hands when we usually do something. (It's different when we go out to work somewhere) when I thought my idea "use knife as tool" I felt it is unnatural to it point. Knives are often not suitable tools. it opportunity to use Knife as a tool was surprisingly small. it was reason I stop thinking about my idea.
However, Butchering spot is one of the most appropriate of them. in the early days of survival, it feels realistic to use knives gained as weapons for various things.(The starting point of my idea was there)
But It is only an emergency measure. it is an alternative choice in an environment where Butcher table can not be prepared. and it is not used all the time. Is not it? (I apologize if it differs from your idea) I do not think it is complicated to need a knife equip for that.
Gonna +1 this, but screw the knife requirement.
No need for "does this person have a knife" or whatever, as woodcutting doesn't require an axe, and construction doesn't require a hammer or nails. Just increase required time and/or reduce yield is good enough.
hey, wait please. Everyone saying eliminate the need for a knife. But is not it too convenient? basically Butcher work is not thinks work efficiency very much. Can't make difference in working spead so big.
Isn't there no reason to make a Butcher table? Do you want to do so? if you want it, its will change this suggestion mean.
Is there any idea how to make a difference in existence value? I will be worried about it.
Quote from: //SHIFT on March 09, 2018, 05:59:14 PM
For convenience u have your butchering table already.. This has totally different purpose.. Actually now it is pretty inconvenient to be forced to make butchering table everytime u have to stop somewhere and process some food during journeys to actually feed your colonist if u run out of reserves for example..
Vanilla has a lot of things like that. We can't move almost any crafting table, we have to rebuild it. I personally using mod that allows player to relocate those, so I basically can travel with butchering table. It will be easier to include this mod in game rather than make second copy of some tables just for caravans, don't you think?
P.S. I still don't want to be forced to travel with melee cook/switch weapons all the time. Don't get me wrong; I like realistic things, but you can imagine how many players will be annoyed by those mechanics.
Quote from: OopsLoops on March 10, 2018, 09:40:00 AM
hey, wait please. Everyone saying eliminate the need for a knife. But is not it too convenient? basically Butcher work is not thinks work efficiency very much. Can't make difference in working spead so big.
Isn't there no reason to make a Butcher table? Do you want to do so? if you want it, its will change this suggestion mean.
Is there any idea how to make a difference in existence value? I will be worried about it.
you're worried that butcher spots are too good? it's the same as hand tailor workbenches compared to electric tailor workbenches, or fuelled stoves compared to electric stoves, or fuelled smithies compared to electric smithies, or double beds compared to royal beds, or flagstone compared to the other rock floor, or a shiv compared to a longsword and i could go on.
rimworld has always had many options and most importantly options where you can spend less resources and less time building something but you will get a worse version of something while you can just spend enough resources and time on building and you will get the better version of it.
if you spend no money at all, you can get a free butcher spot in no time to build at all. the butcher table will cost you 95 wood if i am correct (or any other resource) and it will butcher faster, giving you more leather and meat. that seems fair to me.
a rock chunk as an ingredient would be the only thing need to make it would be a good idea.
Just like our ancestors
Sick Puppy, you enumerated facilities now its can not think just like a butcher work.
First of point. Everything you mention is basically what someone is working on. The chef often does not leave the stoves and continues working there. Both sewing and blacksmith have many work processes, and once they start working, they continue working there for a long time. because, those difference in work efficiency accumulates and it make big difference.
The butcher is not like them. It does not always work. Meat to be processed with a butcher table is not always there. (Pet food is also created quickly and production is stopped) It is a common scene that no one is working there. That is what I said that I can not make a difference at work speed. it is a short time work, can not accumulate time, and cant be big difference.
The second point. no need fuel. simple. The reason to shift from fuelled stoves to electric stoves is often for save wood.
of course in butcher wrok, It can not be different.
Third point. originally, butcher tabel is not comfortable facility. On the contrary, this facility that provides unsanitary around it. Usually, it difference is determined by the difference in quality of the facility, but in this is not case either. It can not be different.
Finally, This is also a question. If make a difference with Yield Rate, makes Spot useless at all. Pawn's skill is a major factor in Yield fo meat and leather. In the early days that Spot will be used, the skill of Pown is also usually low, often not enough. If you make a difference that you can feel, it yield is too low and isnt it be utterly meaningless? For example, suppose 75 meat can be harvested originally, do you think that efficiency can fall to any degree?
These are the reason I felt it could not make a difference. I enumerated this as an objection because it makes it clear why I think so. And it is why I wanted to ask opinions on what points you should consider different.
and imo, the butcher's work is Originally, itself is somewhere... I felt it as "temporary" things in RimWorld. Actually, there would not be much people building a room for a butcher. almost people who make it in other rooms or if care about unsanitary thoughts, make it in an inconspicuous place. Is not it? Then the biggest point of view is "temporary things, and more temporary things".
I think it as "I can use it, but it is inconvenient" it is appropriate as a difference. For the reasons above, my opinion does not change on this point.
I am sorry to long post.
We've added this a little while ago, it'll be in next build.
I believe the only difference from butcher table is the work speed.
Quote from: Tynan on March 12, 2018, 11:40:29 AM
We've added this a little while ago, it'll be in next build.
I believe the only difference from butcher table is the work speed.
praise the lord
ok, Case closed. now I only hope is butcher table unnecessary and with spot will not be meaningless. I believe that there is a prospect for that point.
2018/03/14 16:19(in japan) edited
As an additional suggest. spot size more than 1 * 3 square.(Or need more space, Or settable number to 1) It is possible to cover work efficiency by installing multiple spots that would 0cost. If there are plenty of colonist, may be useful than tabel some time.
Quote from: Tynan on March 12, 2018, 11:40:29 AM
We've added this a little while ago, it'll be in next build.
I believe the only difference from butcher table is the work speed.
This begs the question of how different is the game going to be from what it is now to the final release?
Apparently cyclones have changed and now we have the very logical butchering spot (Very logical if your someone who has butchered whole animals before). Exciting times looking forward to the end result. :)