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RimWorld => Mods => Topic started by: Mackinz on September 20, 2016, 12:54:22 PM

Title: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Mackinz on September 20, 2016, 12:54:22 PM
Apologies if this not the appropriate forum section for this. Cross-post from Reddit (https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/53mhcu/i_think_one_or_more_of_my_mods_is_screwing_with/):

I installed a bunch of mods for Alpha 15 after successfully launching my first colony into space. With all these mods installed, I made a new colony and within a handful of hours I have been raided approximately 15 times, sometimes several in the same day. Getting a random cold snap while my colony is slowly dying of starvation was the last straw.
Does anyone know of a particular mod which does this? I am just playing on Cassandra Classic, Rough, which should not be this absurd. The frequency of incidents is astounding...
Here's my mod list:
(I play through Steam and use the Workshop.)
If anyone has some insight, please feel free to share.

Additional information from Reddit thread comments:
Game version 0.15.1284 (latest version)
Wealth is currently ~28,000, and the colony is 25 days old
Events that occur do not include just raids, as I am also getting an inordinate amount of visitors and traders coming by
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Dingo on September 20, 2016, 01:18:11 PM
It might not be a mod causing it, per se. Maybe you have so many extra things in your colony that wealth is ridiculously high and the storyteller thinks you need to be tested?
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Mackinz on September 20, 2016, 01:41:22 PM
Quote from: Dingo on September 20, 2016, 01:18:11 PM
It might not be a mod causing it, per se. Maybe you have so many extra things in your colony that wealth is ridiculously high and the storyteller thinks you need to be tested?
As I said at the end of the post, colony wealth is 28,000 and the colony has existed for 25 days. I doubt that's a factor in the number of raids I've gotten (~15 in 25 days?), whereas I understand that raids become stronger the higher your wealth.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: kaptain_kavern on September 20, 2016, 01:55:35 PM
Off-Topic

QuoteImproved Surgery for A Dog Said...
Wow I wasn't even aware of this one ^^ (I don't use steam at all >:()
If you need anything Dingo, we are here with Spoonshortage (contact us via the forum here please rather than Steam, to reach me also :P)

On-Topic

I don't know/use a quarter of those mods, but if you suspect a problem with storytellers you could try to a search in your mod folder for files that modify storytellers. That could help to identify the culprit.
Looking in the output_log.txt file could also give you clues
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Dingo on September 20, 2016, 02:08:02 PM
I use or have used a lot of those mods and I don't think any of them change storytellers. It could technically be a conflict with some of the DLL assemblies they use, I know Hospitality used to cause mod conflicts sometimes with pawn behaviour. Judging by the list I don't see how these mods would do what you're describing here, though...

Did you start a brand new game with ALL of them enabled? Also, how does your load order look?
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Mackinz on September 20, 2016, 02:19:40 PM
Quote from: Dingo on September 20, 2016, 02:08:02 PM
I use or have used a lot of those mods and I don't think any of them change storytellers. It could technically be a conflict with some of the DLL assemblies they use, I know Hospitality used to cause mod conflicts sometimes with pawn behaviour. Judging by the list I don't see how these mods would do what you're describing here, though...

Did you start a brand new game with ALL of them enabled? Also, how does your load order look?
I started a brand new game with all of them installed, yes. As for my load order... I can't take a screenshot of it right now but I'll post one when I can.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: BlueWinds on September 20, 2016, 02:38:50 PM
It's not the mods - A15 Casandra is simply brutal, regardless of difficulty. Events, events everywhere, every day, continually. Difficulty can make the raids smaller, but they'll still be occurring constantly.

I've been playing Phoebe Chillax, who's maybe a little bit slow, but still not as slow as she used to feel, and IMO a far more reasonable challenge. Looking forward to A16 and some rebalanced storytellers. ^^;;
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Mackinz on September 20, 2016, 03:03:21 PM
Quote from: BlueWinds on September 20, 2016, 02:38:50 PM
It's not the mods - A15 Casandra is simply brutal, regardless of difficulty. Events, events everywhere, every day, continually. Difficulty can make the raids smaller, but they'll still be occurring constantly.

I've been playing Phoebe Chillax, who's maybe a little bit slow, but still not as slow as she used to feel, and IMO a far more reasonable challenge. Looking forward to A16 and some rebalanced storytellers. ^^;;
My last colony, which I successfully played for five in game years, had 22 colonists that all evacuated into space, and was set to Cassandra Classic on Rough, was made in Alpha 15 Unstable a few days before the official release of Alpha 15. It didn't face nearly as much difficulty as my new colony.

I've been watching some Alpha 15 LPs that haven't faced as much difficulty either, at least supplied by the game as the skill level of one is... atrocious.

And I've had other colonies as well, during Alpha 14. Cassandra wasn't remotely this bloodthirsty. Unless I misread patch notes, there should have been no difficulty spike between A14 and A15, let alone A15 to A15C. That is why this ridiculous amount of events is so shocking to me.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Mackinz on September 20, 2016, 04:26:38 PM
Here is my load order:

(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/254841085407365712/EB542EAD0EB829A298F67D1E8920D45280B0CBE8/)
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/254841085407365827/DF7897BF0D07B82A4DA7D7CD839C1B795CCF0FA6/)
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/254841085407365929/77CD83B65953173720D777424803B9952166D6EB/)

Whether is it a good load order is another issue. I tried to organize it a bit.

Edit: I tried removing all my mods and starting a new colony. No issues. Two raids in~20 days. Average.

Now I will try with half the mods, mostly using UI or texture mods. I have a sneaking suspicion that the issue is related to Hospitality but I am not pointing fingers.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: BlueWinds on September 21, 2016, 02:48:06 PM
Ah, it seems I have an egg in my face then - I hadn't tested it without mods, just made some assumptions. Please let me know what you figure out! Will be good to report as a bug to whatever mod is causing it.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Mackinz on September 21, 2016, 03:02:44 PM
Quote from: BlueWinds on September 21, 2016, 02:48:06 PM
Ah, it seems I have an egg in my face then - I hadn't tested it without mods, just made some assumptions. Please let me know what you figure out! Will be good to report as a bug to whatever mod is causing it.
Feel free to share your own mod list. It may help narrow the issue down if we are/were suffering the same issue and we have similar mods installed.

Next...

After successfully developing a colony that has lasted till winter (on the same map as before) without seeing nearly the deluge of attacks, I believe I can rule out these mods:

(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/254841191096606593/E2289D3146570C6AF6FF98A5061150C24F37797C/)
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/254841191096606672/9570C21D3AB67A8F9ED774505F03AD90A3451A65/)
(http://images.akamai.steamusercontent.com/ugc/254841191096606831/545377710A613675FA1A349FF255DB45634D0E16/)

I will do some further testing by enabling more mods that are old-save compatible.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Dingo on September 21, 2016, 03:45:53 PM
If you had Hot Coffee version 1.0 or 1.01 installed you're gonna get a lot of errors when using 1.02 and above with an old save. I implemented a ton of changes to Toasty's original files. It's definitely not what caused your raids, just a different error you might experience.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Mackinz on September 21, 2016, 03:57:39 PM
Quote from: Dingo on September 21, 2016, 03:45:53 PM
If you had Hot Coffee version 1.0 or 1.01 installed you're gonna get a lot of errors when using 1.02 and above with an old save. I implemented a ton of changes to Toasty's original files. It's definitely not what caused your raids, just a different error you might experience.
I haven't checked the mods version, but I did have a hilarious interaction between it and Hospitality where a tribal visitor had ~500 coffee for sale and left me all of it as a thank you gift. That was on my constantly raided colony. I have not yet enabled the mod for my current colony.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: BlueWinds on September 21, 2016, 04:49:26 PM
Of your disabled mods, the only ones we have in common are:

Hospitality seems a pretty good guess - definitely the next one to try. I'm not at home right now so can't test things myself, but it seems a lot more likely than the RT mods.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Mackinz on September 21, 2016, 06:20:32 PM
Quote from: BlueWinds on September 21, 2016, 04:49:26 PM
Of your disabled mods, the only ones we have in common are:

  • Prepare Carefully
  • Hospitality
  • FishIndustry
  • RT Fuse
  • RT Solar Flare Shield

Hospitality seems a pretty good guess - definitely the next one to try. I'm not at home right now so can't test things myself, but it seems a lot more likely than the RT mods.
My question on Hospitality's Workshop page:

QuoteNot sure what the cause of my issue is, so it may or may not be related to Hospitality. Basically, my latest colony has seen a ridiculous number of events occur within 25 days. Mostly raids (1-4 raiders). I've been getting rather large parties of visitors and traders as well (7-9 people). Something has screwed my game up somewhere along the line. Does Hospitality have any effect on the frequency of visitors or traders showing up?

According to Orion:

QuoteIt does, but only very slightly... a few more visitors than usual.

In my opinion, Orion may have underestimated the effect of his change. Maybe, maybe not.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Master Bucketsmith on September 22, 2016, 06:42:08 AM
The two tiny mods you have from me do not alter anything in regards to colony wealth. Both have no value.
Just putting that out there. :D
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Coercion on September 22, 2016, 06:44:57 AM
I suggest that you do a playthrough without mods, and then start adding them slowly. This will allow you to get a good idea of the vanilla game and easily see what each mod does. Of course, you can play however you want.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Facepunch on September 22, 2016, 07:24:36 AM
Heh...reminds me of Randy Random. I've played with most of the mods you have, and I didn't have any issues. Hospitality is one of the ones I didn't try. Have you tried doing a colony without Hospitality?
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: BlueWinds on September 22, 2016, 03:17:30 PM
Quote from: Master Bucketsmith on September 22, 2016, 06:42:08 AM
The two tiny mods you have from me do not alter anything in regards to colony wealth. Both have no value.
Just putting that out there. :D

The issue here isn't raid size, it's raid frequency (which colony wealth doesn't affect). Like, 15 raids in 15 days frequency. Pretty sure it's hospitality at this point (especially since the dev has confirmed it does affect event frequency) - I'll verify for myself when I get home tonight.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Mackinz on September 22, 2016, 03:37:15 PM
Quote from: Coercion on September 22, 2016, 06:44:57 AM
I suggest that you do a playthrough without mods, and then start adding them slowly. This will allow you to get a good idea of the vanilla game and easily see what each mod does. Of course, you can play however you want.
I did just that, but instead of adding mods slowly I added a little under half of them at a time, twice. Some I have still not enabled, and I plan on creating another test colony with my current load order.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Master Bucketsmith on September 22, 2016, 03:51:22 PM
Quote from: BlueWinds on September 22, 2016, 03:17:30 PM
Quote from: Master Bucketsmith on September 22, 2016, 06:42:08 AM
The two tiny mods you have from me do not alter anything in regards to colony wealth. Both have no value.
Just putting that out there. :D

The issue here isn't raid size, it's raid frequency (which colony wealth doesn't affect). Like, 15 raids in 15 days frequency. Pretty sure it's hospitality at this point (especially since the dev has confirmed it does affect event frequency) - I'll verify for myself when I get home tonight.
Really? I thought colony wealth was factored into how often the vanilla three storytellers would send raids to 'balance out' having high wealth.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: BlueWinds on September 23, 2016, 11:42:13 AM
Take a look in Mods/Core/Defs/StorytellerDefs/Storytellers.xml:
Code Select

  <StorytellerDef>
    <defName>Cassandra</defName>
      ...
      <li Class="StorytellerCompProperties_ThreatCycle">
        <minDaysPassed>5</minDaysPassed>
        <mtbDaysThreatSmall>3.75</mtbDaysThreatSmall>
        <mtbDaysThreatBig>1.25</mtbDaysThreatBig>
        <threatCycleLength>9.2</threatCycleLength>
        <minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>2.1</minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>
      </li>
    </comps>
  </StorytellerDef>
  <StorytellerDef>
    <defName>Phoebe</defName>
    ...
      <li Class="StorytellerCompProperties_ThreatCycle">
        <minDaysPassed>5</minDaysPassed>
        <mtbDaysThreatSmall>8</mtbDaysThreatSmall>
        <mtbDaysThreatBig>1.25</mtbDaysThreatBig>
        <threatCycleLength>17</threatCycleLength>
        <minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>12.5</minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>
      </li>
    ...


Someone with a better understanding than I would should confirm - but I read this as "After each big threat, Casandra waits 2.1 days (minDaysBetweenThreatBigs), and then waits an average of an additional 1.25 days (mtbDaysThreatBig) before sending the next threat."

Colony wealth + difficulty + some other things are used to determine the size of the threats - how many raiders, mechanoids, manhunter animals, insects - but whether or not an incident occurs is determined by the storyteller + rng only (plus mods, of course).
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Facepunch on September 23, 2016, 06:25:46 PM
Quote from: BlueWinds on September 23, 2016, 11:42:13 AM
Take a look in Mods/Core/Defs/StorytellerDefs/Storytellers.xml:
Code Select

  <StorytellerDef>
    <defName>Cassandra</defName>
      ...
      <li Class="StorytellerCompProperties_ThreatCycle">
        <minDaysPassed>5</minDaysPassed>
        <mtbDaysThreatSmall>3.75</mtbDaysThreatSmall>
        <mtbDaysThreatBig>1.25</mtbDaysThreatBig>
        <threatCycleLength>9.2</threatCycleLength>
        <minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>2.1</minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>
      </li>
    </comps>
  </StorytellerDef>
  <StorytellerDef>
    <defName>Phoebe</defName>
    ...
      <li Class="StorytellerCompProperties_ThreatCycle">
        <minDaysPassed>5</minDaysPassed>
        <mtbDaysThreatSmall>8</mtbDaysThreatSmall>
        <mtbDaysThreatBig>1.25</mtbDaysThreatBig>
        <threatCycleLength>17</threatCycleLength>
        <minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>12.5</minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>
      </li>
    ...


Someone with a better understanding than I would should confirm - but I read this as "After each big threat, Casandra waits 2.1 days (minDaysBetweenThreatBigs), and then waits an average of an additional 1.25 days (mtbDaysThreatBig) before sending the next threat."

Colony wealth + difficulty + some other things are used to determine the size of the threats - how many raiders, mechanoids, manhunter animals, insects - but whether or not an incident occurs is determined by the storyteller + rng only (plus mods, of course).

Well, looks like you're correct. Learned something new, today.
Title: Re: One of my mods might be causing tons of incidents to occur
Post by: Master Bucketsmith on September 24, 2016, 03:47:16 AM
Quote from: BlueWinds on September 23, 2016, 11:42:13 AM
Take a look in Mods/Core/Defs/StorytellerDefs/Storytellers.xml:
Code Select

  <StorytellerDef>
    <defName>Cassandra</defName>
      ...
      <li Class="StorytellerCompProperties_ThreatCycle">
        <minDaysPassed>5</minDaysPassed>
        <mtbDaysThreatSmall>3.75</mtbDaysThreatSmall>
        <mtbDaysThreatBig>1.25</mtbDaysThreatBig>
        <threatCycleLength>9.2</threatCycleLength>
        <minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>2.1</minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>
      </li>
    </comps>
  </StorytellerDef>
  <StorytellerDef>
    <defName>Phoebe</defName>
    ...
      <li Class="StorytellerCompProperties_ThreatCycle">
        <minDaysPassed>5</minDaysPassed>
        <mtbDaysThreatSmall>8</mtbDaysThreatSmall>
        <mtbDaysThreatBig>1.25</mtbDaysThreatBig>
        <threatCycleLength>17</threatCycleLength>
        <minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>12.5</minDaysBetweenThreatBigs>
      </li>
    ...


Someone with a better understanding than I would should confirm - but I read this as "After each big threat, Casandra waits 2.1 days (minDaysBetweenThreatBigs), and then waits an average of an additional 1.25 days (mtbDaysThreatBig) before sending the next threat."

Colony wealth + difficulty + some other things are used to determine the size of the threats - how many raiders, mechanoids, manhunter animals, insects - but whether or not an incident occurs is determined by the storyteller + rng only (plus mods, of course).

While XML is a good starting point, there might be many mechanics and values 'hidden' in the C# code that are not defined by XML.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying I'm careful interpreting XML files as the complete package. :)

If the XML defines all values that define how often a raid should happen then I guess you're right! Thanks for sharing!
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