How to bring the colonies out into the open again?

[ZephyrSly]

Just thought of something that could affect people's desire to build mountain bases: a claustrophobia trait.

This would be useful as the debuff could take affect not only in completely enclosed mountain bases, but also in small rooms and buildings, and perhaps in other locations too?

Just thought I'd throw this idea in here.

Thanks,
Zeph

[EarthyTurtle]

Just thought of something that could affect people's desire to build mountain bases: a claustrophobia trait.

This would be useful as the debuff could take affect not only in completely enclosed mountain bases, but also in small rooms and buildings, and perhaps in other locations too?

Just thought I'd throw this idea in here.

Thanks,
Zeph

I think it's possible, it has a gameplay element. Though if you do that you'll also have to consider adding Agoraphobia as the opposite trait, for fair play.

[Noobshock]

Not that I particularly enjoy repeating myself but penalties for tunneling in aren't going to stop people from playing hyper conservatively, because the causes for that phenomenon are much stronger drives than any relatively soft penalty you'd impose on mountain bases.

In order to force people out as it stands, you'd have to make mountain tunneling so punishing that it would be borderline nonviable and detract from player choice overall. The real problem lies in exacerbated combat lethality, weapon range trumping almost everything, and lack of options to replace colonists. That's what needs to be addressed one way or another. If you want to keep high lethality and tension during combat, which can be a very good thing, then you need to provide extra ways to recruit/replace colonists. The rare slave ships and incapacitated raiders aren't enough for most players to want to risk their colonists in an "open" fight.

[ZephyrSly]

I have to agree with you Noobshock, Tynan would probably have to make tunnel bases non-viable to change the way people would play - however I think that'd be the polar opposite of what the game is about.

One of my favourite experiances in Rimworld is overcoming a problem in my own way with no limitations - if I was forced to make a decision or move in Rimworld, I'd feel limited and boxed in.

Also, if colonists were easier to acquire and more likley to die, I'd stop giving them backstories and viewing them as actual characters - they'd just become little pawns I'd send out to die, to be replaced quickly by a slave trader. I think that'd ruin the feel of the game, where every colonist matters.

[SimpleLogician]

Not that I particularly enjoy repeating myself but penalties for tunneling in aren't going to stop people from playing hyper conservatively, because the causes for that phenomenon are much stronger drives than any relatively soft penalty you'd impose on mountain bases.

In order to force people out as it stands, you'd have to make mountain tunneling so punishing that it would be borderline nonviable and detract from player choice overall. The real problem lies in exacerbated combat lethality, weapon range trumping almost everything, and lack of options to replace colonists. That's what needs to be addressed one way or another. If you want to keep high lethality and tension during combat, which can be a very good thing, then you need to provide extra ways to recruit/replace colonists. The rare slave ships and incapacitated raiders aren't enough for most players to want to risk their colonists in an "open" fight.

This is why I liked the idea of being able to build robots that would do manual labor for your colony. They could do just about anything mindless. But social, hunting, and defending the base would be barred from them. They'd also be pretty expensive or have various levels of them (EG a metal-only-costing one that can only perform one task selected when created, a plasteel, metal, and AI core costing one that would do all of the mindless tasks - through priority table - but still couldn't fight, and then a much more expensive one that could fight as well but still couldn't do social). It would also be nice to have a stealth mechanic with perception as a new skill. Then we could build cameras to spot raiders sneaking into the base to steal stuff and have some of the colonists on guard duty. Better yet, said robots could have to charge in sunlight periodically to keep going and if they ran out would have to be hauled into the sun to recharge.

[Noobshock]

Also, if colonists were easier to acquire and more likley to die, I'd stop giving them backstories and viewing them as actual characters - they'd just become little pawns I'd send out to die, to be replaced quickly by a slave trader. I think that'd ruin the feel of the game, where every colonist matters.

I think there's probably a more reasonable compromise between them being "easily replaceable" and what we have now. What we have now is scarcity on such a level that it drives people to use killboxes. We just need more options for recruitment, they don't have to be cheap or easy, and it doesn't have to make recruiting feel trivial. It just needs to be a little more open than the slave ship showing up once in a blue moon and the seemingly endless flow of incapacitated 99% tribals whose recruitment is a nightmare.

[Wex]

It would also be nice to have a stealth mechanic with perception as a new skill. Then we could build cameras to spot raiders sneaking into the base to steal stuff and have some of the colonists on guard duty.

I love this idea! Also, you could abduct sleeping siegers with a stealth approach! 

[stefanstr]

Really an excellent idea! Stealth/perception would be a much more useful skill than what art is going to be (I think).

[BinaryBlackhole]

Mountains have many advantages from thick roofs that  prevent enemies coming in in drop pods to been cheap constructions. My idea is to have a special enemy a giant worm that has a chance of leaving rocks or ore behind it [fills in tunnels effort to maintain them] . Basically being a tunneling mechanoid you would have to research ultrasonic sensors to detect it. Also how about resurrection tables if a body is in a suitable condition it needs all the important organs. Using blood extracted from colonists and 10000 electricity you could resurrect corpses that recently died resurrection would leave them immobilized for 2 days and make their skills all drop by 1-4 depending on medical skill. This would be fair as 1 they must bleed to death not die from bad injuries. 2 you are making colonists weaker as they lose blood. 3 corpses must be fresh you could only resurrect 1 person per resuscitation table every wave as patching his wounds and filling him or her with blood would take to long for more than one person to be resurrected.

[Coenmcj]

Really an excellent idea! Stealth/perception would be a much more useful skill than what art is going to be (I think).

If you thought people were turtling now, imagine how it'll be with an enemy you cannot see, checkpoints every 20 metres and an obscene amount of cameras around every corner.

[stefanstr]

If you thought people were turtling now, imagine how it'll be with an enemy you cannot see, checkpoints every 20 metres and an obscene amount of cameras around every corner.

A valid point. The more this discussion is going on the more I am inclined to think that the right approach is to simply balance out costs of an outdoor base vs an indoor base without any new mechanics to discourage people from turtling. (In reality, drilling into a mountain would require a lot of time and materials, whereas in Rimworld, it is actually cheaper than an outdoor base.)

BTW. I have just noticed this thread is the longest discussion this forum has ever seen apart from two or three pinned topics. Apart from feeding my ego as the OP, this is showing that how pivotal this problem is for Rimworld's design, and that it requires some more attention from Tynan.

[TrashMan]

Really an excellent idea! Stealth/perception would be a much more useful skill than what art is going to be (I think).

If you thought people were turtling now, imagine how it'll be with an enemy you cannot see, checkpoints every 20 metres and an obscene amount of cameras around every corner.

Honestly I don't see much of a difference. Outside colonies generally have walls, and indoor colonies are going to have the same problem of raiders sneaking in.

That's what guards/detectors are for.

[Johnny Masters]

about perception/stealth:
Might as well implement/re implement fog of war and drastically change how combat is dealt with from [waves] to [constant, dynamic, variable threats]

IMO Paranoia and vigilance are/should be part of the survival genre, that's why people kept and keep guard shifts. If its important to guard a modern city at night, imagine a vulnerable camp in a raider ridden (and hopefully, someday, beast-ridden) world?

Although the question would remain, how this in particular would help this thread issue i don't know

[ShadowDragon8685]

It wouldn't. If anything, it would make it worse, encouraging people to wall off only those outdoor bits they absolutely need and turn the rest into a barren hellscape.

[stefanstr]

The changelog mentions a new temperature mechanic. I think it might add an interesting variation to mountain colonies. Caves maintain a constant low temperature throughout the year (about 10C or 50F unless the cave is in a hot climate) which would make them better than outside colonies in winter, but worse in the summer (so you would have to heat them in the summer).

(Yes, I have basically posted the same thing in the changelog thread but I think it applies here, as well.)