EULA and forums

[Listen1]

I dealt very little with contracts of use and service, and once I made a "drawer-contract" for testing one equipment for a month. This contract had many, MANY notes that explicited told my costumer that if someone bumped the equipment and damaged it by even a tiny bit I had the right to charge my costumer in the value of the whole equipment and add a fine over this value.

That is only for legal actions, I would never risk to lose a costumer for $1.000,00. The same applies here.

On this forum, if we do not have a way to enforce the rules, by possible legal actions, we will not be able to fend of in extreme cases. Forum interaction is not mandatory, and you can watch and read everything without risking to fall under this rule set. Or you can follow the rules, as they are not something from another world.

And if all this still makes you feel bad, try using the reddit. Where you can follow events and express yourself out of the forum rules.

[Fluffy (l2032)]

But that is the point, isn't it?

If I were your customer, such a license would make me seriously (re-)consider working with you, or your products. I understand your intend, but a detailed procedure about what constitutes damages and how conflicts might be escalated, in combination with personal contact with you might make me feel better about it.

Like I said, I've had personal contact with Tynan, and I trust him not to abuse the license, from that, and because it would be a PR-nightmare for him. But many people have not had that personal contact, so a message from tynan about why and how (which was partially given here) the EULA is the way it is might help dissuade some of those discomforts.

I understand I can choose not to use the forums, or not to play/mod the game. But presumably Tynan wants us to do those things, so if there's simple ways to make that more likely, why not?

[Jinxed]

I like the nuance that people who are talking about options offer only two possible options:
1 - accept rules
2 - dont accept the rules and dont use the forums

I also find it amusing that they dont even consider a possibility of option I took
3- express your concerns and try to change the rules.

[MarcTheMerc]

Its my understanding these things have happened already in the passed the only change is there is now a Eula.

But if im correct in the trust i place with Tynan (which i did when i bought an alpha game from him) i can extend the trust to him not permabanning me for making a bug report in generral discussions for instance.

[Fluffy (l2032)]

I like the nuance that people who are talking about options offer only two possible options:
1 - accept rules
2 - dont accept the rules and dont use the forums

I also find it amusing that they dont even consider a possibility of option I took
3- express your concerns and try to change the rules.

I agree, and thats exactly what I'm trying to say.

Its my understanding these things have happened already in the passed the only change is there is now a Eula.

But if im correct in the trust i place with Tynan (which i did when i bought an alpha game from him) i can extend the trust to him not permabanning me for making a bug report in generral discussions for instance.

I personally agree there, but don't you think it would be a good idea if Tynan were to try and cultivate that trust with people who may not have it yet?

[wooaa]

While this is the first time I have seen an EULA explicitly connect use of forums and use of product ( and I do my best to read EULA for most things), I am not too worried. Tynan has shown to be a good person. He is active in the community, keeps in touch with the player base,  and made a good effort to make the EULA one of the clearest I have ever seen. As he said on the first page of this thread, he would only use it if you are constantly being abusive, and even then if all other methods had fail. It is unlikely that he will use this power for minor mess ups of if you say something critical of this fantastic game.
Furthermore, if Tynan  abused it, he would probably kill Rimworld. If people were getting their licenses revoked for minor things word of it would quickly spread. Any time someone googled rimwold, it would be a the first thing you saw. Youtube lets plays would be full of outrage. No one would buy the game.
Now, if a company that is less moral were to have this feature *coughEAcoughcough*, I would be concerned and would probably try to ask for a refund of some sort. But Ludeon is good, so its not a problem.

TL:DR, Tynan  wont abuse it and it would make to economic sense to.

potato.

[Listen1]

I like the nuance that people who are talking about options offer only two possible options:
1 - accept rules
2 - dont accept the rules and dont use the forums

I also find it amusing that they dont even consider a possibility of option I took
3- express your concerns and try to change the rules.

Sorry Jinxed, but in life you usually only have the first two. This place discussing our ideias and considering it, is one of the few I know that will let you do this.

Fluffy, it was a new costumer, that i've never worked with, and if I didn't do this contract, I would take too many risks. And my costumer thanked me and understood why we needed this contract, also saying that we were the only company that took the risk to help them

Since this dicussion is opened,

"If you participate in an official Ludeon discussion forum, or one controlled by Ludeon staff, you are required to follow the rules of that forum as they are written at any particular time you participate there. It means, for example, that if you distribute the Software to pirates, break rules on the forum, or break any other rule in this EULA, we can revoke your access to the game with no refund."

Maybe the last line can be changed to something like: "...or break any other rule in this EULA, the user will receive an infraction. Every infraction shall be informed and allowed a defense, if a user receives 3 strikes without a defense the license of the game can be revoked with no refunds."

I believe that a company needs to have the power to revoke a license. Not that they will need to use this power, only need to have it.

[Limdood]

Jinxed, EULAs often have extreme measures in them. 

If that line were NOT there, then that one instance of someone abusing the heck out of the forums to cause damage could not have the punishment escalated beyond an IP ban, which, as you read, was already circumvented by one user.

Businesses take their EULAs to the extreme to protect THEMSELVES.  they cover every eventuality, and permit themselves to use the most severe punishments.  you're not relying on their good nature not to punish you for nothing, you're counting on the fact that there is NOTHING in it for the developer to pursue legal action or ban a user.  It is often harmful to the company - at worst, lots of dollars spent on a public, humiliating lawsuit, at least, 1 less person playing the game, buying future products, and spreading positive word-of-mouth advertising.  The only times these companies use these bans is when the benefit outweighs the cost...losing a single person is preferable, for example, to having someone hack and undermine the integrity of the game (in a multiplayer setting - this is one of the most common reasons for bans).

In general, game companies will respond harshly to anything that has the potential to ruin their game for the masses.  While its true that the forums are not directly linked with the game, connecting game punishments to the forums as a last resort, when there is no other recourse to deal with an issue makes sense, even if it might make you a little worried.

As a related, but not necessarily relevant aside: the rimworld forums are one of the most helpful and supportive communities on a forum that i've run into.  There is an absolute minimum of the shaming, venom, and elitism that you find in many other early access forums (i always like coming here after the 7 days to die forums just to remind myself that not everyone on the internet is a dick)

[MarcTheMerc]

I personally agree there, but don't you think it would be a good idea if Tynan were to try and cultivate that trust with people who may not have it yet?
[/quote]

Yes i also agree though i can still vouch for Tynan.

[Bob_Namg]

Ultimately we managed to track down and message his parents.

LOL!
What a little punk, my goodness..

[KillTyrant]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvkHnVFS87I