Psychopaths

[zambasshik]

This game has no psychopaths. What!? I know, I know. The trait, it says "psychopath." The trait is wrong.

First some back story. I am currently a grad student for my Ph.D. in Clinical Psychology and already have my B.S. and Masters.

Simply replace every word "psychopath" with "sociopath" and all will be good. What's the difference you ask? Two men.

One walks into a bank, shoots 2 people, robs it, holds some other hostage, eats one, so and so forth. He is incapable of assimilating into society. They are always the black sheep and stick out as weird.

The second one is all those stories of serial killers and cannibals who live next door to you for years and you never knew. A sociopath is capable of assimilating flawlessly* into society so as not to be noticeable. They're actions are equally horrible and disjointed.

A "real" psychopath in this game, would do nothing but kill people. They would almost never work, haul, clean, hell even agree to join short of trying to trick you to get a nice shiny assault rifle to kill you with.

[Cimm0]

Blah blah blah.

I'm a mechanical engineer, things don't work this way in real life, they should have a machine shop which is a lot larger than a 1x3 table, there's no heat treatment facility or a HUGE blast furnace for melting metals from ore, they need to rename "smith" to "design engineer" etc. etc., oh god!

...it's a game, get over it.

[Spdskatr]

Lol. Geez, why so aggressive?
Tynan has kind of mentioned this kind of problem before. Think about it - which word sounds more attractive: sociopath or psychopath?

Words from his blog(about level 2 programming): The problem with level 2, though is that it works on abstract, mechanical-level analysis of systems, which doesn't relate directly to what players actually want from their games: emotions. People working at level 2 can end up 'balancing out the fun' of a great goofy design (happened during the dev of Magicka; they fixed it), or complexifying a game until it's so deep that it becomes intimidating and drives players away, or working endlessly on details that players just don't care about, or ignoring easy wins because they depend on mechanically-irrelevant pushing of emotional buttons.

See what he is saying? Adding unnecessary detail while degrading the overall attractiveness of the game is a big mistake.

Definition of psychopath by Merrian-Webster:
Definition of psychopath. : a mentally ill or unstable person; especially : a person affected with antisocial personality disorder.

Technically that doesn't have to mean that the person is violent or malevolent; they could have a chronic mental condition and still be considered to possess psychopathic behaviour.

Definition of Psychopath from Psychology Today: Psychopaths, and to a degree, sociopaths, show a lack of emotion, especially the social emotions, such as shame, guilt, and embarrassment

Proves my point.

Also from Psychology Today: The term "psychopath" was first applied to these people around 1900. The term was changed to "sociopath" in the 1930s to emphasize the damage they do to society. Currently researchers have returned to using the term "psychopath."

Words change.


EDIT: My backstory: A 3yo kid who likes roasting people and making very bad jokes. Currently has a PhD in Abrasive.

[fetusthebard]

Did you just provide a dictionary definition to a Psychologist?

I need to stop using these forums. They are bad for my blood pressure.

[cultist]

Psychopath is the pop culture/slang word for the second type of person you describe. If you actually have a degree in psychology, you should know this. I refuse to believe everyone you know can define the exact meaning of psychopath and what it means (but I'm sure you keep reminding them...)

People constantly call things by the technically wrong name, because the interpretation of words is highly dependent on who you are talking to and what you are talking about. To people with little or no knowledge of psychology, psychopath means "like that guy in Dexter". Yes that is wrong, but that's the common interpretation of the word.

[OFWG]

Did you just provide a dictionary definition to a Psychologist?

No, he corrected a student who was being incorrectly pedantic.

[zambasshik]

I am a student, I am also a psychologist licensed to preform therapy in the state of PA.

I understand why it wont be changed, I didn't think about appeal levels, psychology has a lot of problems with stigmas and pop culture miss-using and miss-understanding what we do and learn about.

For instance, Webster is not a good source for psych definitions, use the DSM5 for that. And neither is Psychology Today. The magazine is written by people with far less expertise than should be accepted; mostly journalism with psych minors intended for people who know nothing about psychology and still think Freud is largely accepted.

The difference between the two is as I stated; though the point about violence is true, not all psychopaths/sociopaths are violent. The definitions are NOT interchangeable will likely not be changed (at least not between eachother).

[mumblemumble]

On a strict definition aspect, I do think psychopath is slightly incorrect, but its not a huge issue. The pawns in question follow orders take care of things, realize that working together is important, but simply aren't sympathetic to others

As for the DSM, I have issues with it to begin with, and its been going...slightly downhill since the 80s. It seems they remove, or redefine stuff to combat "stigma" while combating stigma has nothing to do with mental health. DSM ALSO has removed many things which have no other basis than people protesting or "not having enough diagnoses.". This REALLY screws with mental health in general, as if someone has such an issue, they are SOL, as a doctor can lose their license for treating a mental health condition which "isn't there" legally, even if its clearly visible and an issue

This is why I have huge contention with the DSM and modern psychology : I myself had a thing called SEXUAL AVERSION disorder as a child, among other things : an intense fear, almost phobic, of sex, sexuality, and my own arousal, brought on by my feminist mothers mental abuse. I told my doctor that was something I wanted to work on, but they refused to help because sexual aversion disorder "didn't exist" anymore, since its in the DSM 4. Even if there was GREAT treatments for it years ago, they are locked away, and ILLEGAL to use, even if someone begs, and pleads for them, and this I think is extremely immoral.

Beyond that, I don't understand why people don't accept Freud, I've personally never seen contrary evidence saying many of his theories were bunk. At very least, his notes are extremely informative on how the mind works, and provide interesting ideas. I think the Oedipus / Electra complex is nowhere NEAR as strong as he makes it out to be, but our view on men and women IS very much shaped by our parents, and many of his thoughts still line up with observations of today.

Also, the whole idea of "these guys don't have qualifications" is sort of an appeal to authority. Rather than say they aren't qualified / wrong, explain why they are wrong using logic.

People who aren't qualified have been correct before.

psychology is a scientific field , which should be treated as such, with theories being tested, questions being asked, and only changing something when DATA backs it up. you wouldn't see a text book on mechanical physics throw out a page on pressure differentials because "its not common enough" would you? You ALSO wouldn't throw out something from medicine on muscle atrophy because a group of people with them protested and DEMAND it be removed, either..

Everything in psychology has SOME sort of a cause, but it seems many with to bury WHY it is.

[Spdskatr]

Words from his blog(about level 2 programming): The problem with level 2, though is that it works on abstract, mechanical-level analysis of systems, which doesn't relate directly to what players actually want from their games: emotions. People working at level 2 can end up 'balancing out the fun' of a great goofy design (happened during the dev of Magicka; they fixed it), or complexifying a game until it's so deep that it becomes intimidating and drives players away, or working endlessly on details that players just don't care about, or ignoring easy wins because they depend on mechanically-irrelevant pushing of emotional buttons.

This was my main point. Get it? Some people don't care about accuracy of language over having a damn fun time. There really isn't any point to changing the word, because more people would relate to the word "psychopath" than "sociopath", i.e. 3yo kids like me

[mumblemumble]

Well, I would argue that having the word mean what it means it important, but for something like a game it IS less important... Still, I have a big thing for using the actual proper words, and not jumbling up words used for other words, as this can quickly go downhill with people not understanding anyone else.

Not saying rimworld itself, with this will cause this, but out of habit, I REFUSE to use a word without knowing the definition, at LEAST loosely, because arguments over something caused by a word not using the same definition by different people is absolutely retarded...we should have the same definitions, and stick to them, not changing them, first because we must be able to understand what people MEAN by what they SAY, and second, because changing the definitions of words often invalidates old texts from years ago, unless there is understanding. I mean, look at the flinstones, you might assume everyone there is a homophile because "we'll have a gay old time" is in the theme song, but we only realize this isn't because its made clear, gay meant "happy" only 30 years ago.

However, if this information isn't passed on, if stuff isn't explained, ect things from the past might be interpreted as something which is completely different than what the author intended.

And this can lead to loss of information, ideas, fights over people misunderstanding (when nothing bad was REALLY said) and other problems.

Another interesting artifact of this is stigma on words SEPARATE from the definitions. For instance, love...many think love is sexual, in a lot of ways, but really, its not.  Many other words, like hurt, pain, fear, dislike, ect...are spectrum words often, theres many levels of them, from very subtle , to very high, but many people presume contexts on how intense it is simply because the word is said.


... This is why I try to go off of what others EXPLICITLY say, by definition first, assumptions second, and try not to make subjective assumptions, and say what I say as explicit and clear as possible.

[zambasshik]

Words from his blog(about level 2 programming): The problem with level 2, though is that it works on abstract, mechanical-level analysis of systems, which doesn't relate directly to what players actually want from their games: emotions. People working at level 2 can end up 'balancing out the fun' of a great goofy design (happened during the dev of Magicka; they fixed it), or complexifying a game until it's so deep that it becomes intimidating and drives players away, or working endlessly on details that players just don't care about, or ignoring easy wins because they depend on mechanically-irrelevant pushing of emotional buttons.

This was my main point. Get it? Some people don't care about accuracy of language over having a damn fun time. There really isn't any point to changing the word, because more people would relate to the word "psychopath" than "sociopath", i.e. 3yo kids like me

Some of Frued's Theories have been completely debunked. Mostly his development stuff. Besides that, his theories focused a lot about sex (id, ego, superego); some of that has had evidence not strongly correlating with what he said. As for the rest of his, he blames a lot problems on parenting. This was important at the time and some of it is still used, but has been heavily modified as more longitudinal studies have been conducted examining the relationship between nature and nurture (genes vs. environment) that show that a lot of what he attributed to "bad parenting" just wasn't the case. Also psychotherapy as a whole is still largely utilized but again, over the years it has changed dramatically.

[Bozobub]

EDIT: My backstory: A 3yo kid who likes roasting people and making very bad jokes. Currently has a PhD in Abrasive.

I like you already.  If I ever somehow identify you and you're of age, I owe you a beer.

And you damn near owed me a keyboard -.-' .  People around here drink soda, dammit! lol

[mumblemumble]

what he attributed to "bad parenting" just wasn't the case.

citation?

I think a big part of it is people think if you dont beat, rape, hit, malnorish, or verbally abuse your kid, you MUST be a good parent, but this is not the case.

I think many things happen psychologically with the parents honestly trying their best, but being oblivious to the immense damage it can cause.

[idle]

Hello. In the real world, words have different meanings depending on context. Children for instance love to come home to tell their parents that black and white aren't colours, because they have learned what a colour is in science class. For lots of people, colour is just used to describe an aspect of the surface appearance of objects, even if they understand colours scientifically. This is an equally viable way to use the word unless you try to bring that definition into a science context.

Psychopath is also like this. In an everyday context, it is a catch-all word for people who seem manipulative, evil, callous, lacking in the ability to empathize, or who display especially malicious or anti-social behaviour. Within psychology it takes on a more narrow meaning as a specific sub-category or brand of anti-social tendencies. Just imagine if all narrow meanings from all sorts of fields had to make it into everyone's vocabulary. Philosophy alone would require you to re-learn most of your language habits.

[mumblemumble]

The problem with multiple definitions is often they are not discussed. This is why one of my favorite questions is "define x" where x is the word in question.

This can lead to too many problems, like arguments, whos only origin is 2 people having different definitions.

For instance, imagine a man from another country where queer means odd. He sees a guy who intentionally acts strange to draw attention (as well as possibly acting "gangsta") and the foillowing exchange happens

Foreigner : You seem to be  rather queer acting
strange guy : You calling me gay asshole!?
Foreigner : Well, you act that way a bit too as well but I don't know why you connect the 2...
strange guy : Ill kick your ass!

These exchanges, under different contexts are FRIGHTFULLY COMMON in society, when you factor in snowflakes who use their own definitions (because they feel like it), ebonics, slang, ect.

I Just think being clear is more important...I'd rather be attacked for exactly what I mean than a misunderstanding any day.

so at very least, people need to factor in others might mean other words different, and UNDERSTAND this, and seek understanding...but most dont