Tone down insect hives. Give the player more time to respond.

[killer117]

Yeah i didnt understand why u guys wanted more delay time. The delays fine, my guys always get out in time. The only problem is that no matter what lvl my guys are at they just arent able to kill them. The only efective tactic ive found is making all the furniture out of wood, and if a bug hive spawns use a molotov and roast them in the room. It only works occasionly, and the thrower usually dies or at least loses a body part, but my 6 charge rifle weilding power armour wearing colonists got shreded in a fair fight so i dunno how else to kill them

FYI melee is significantly more effective than guns at close range.

Or, melee line with gun shooters behind, at least.

Everyone still seems focused on guns, but this is how the game is balanced. It just seems like the community hasn't realize it yet.

I did notice this, my guy with a greatsword did have more success than my best shooter. I mostly use gun due to the much larger number of melee enemies than good shooters and i find that if my guys have guns they have a much better chance of escaping injury free. But i have to agree that my troops in my underground base have a much harder time of it as opposed to melee troops, but id still think that my laser rifle troops should stand some kind of chance against bugs 

[AllenWL]

Yeah i didnt understand why u guys wanted more delay time. The delays fine, my guys always get out in time. The only problem is that no matter what lvl my guys are at they just arent able to kill them. The only efective tactic ive found is making all the furniture out of wood, and if a bug hive spawns use a molotov and roast them in the room. It only works occasionly, and the thrower usually dies or at least loses a body part, but my 6 charge rifle weilding power armour wearing colonists got shreded in a fair fight so i dunno how else to kill them

FYI melee is significantly more effective than guns at close range.

Or, melee line with gun shooters behind, at least.

Everyone still seems focused on guns, but this is how the game is balanced. It just seems like the community hasn't realize it yet.

I feel melee is very underestimated in the game community. Possibly due to people's aversions to
any and all damage to their pawns.

[Drahkon]

I'd say the problem with melee is the damage they take not the damage they do. The injuries add up very fast, parts are quite rare. If you don't have very good positioning, cover, or just outnumber your enemy they get ganged up on badly due to the 'hit the closest' AI. Also, insane mechanoid melee kills pure melee teams in no time unless heavily outnumbered and the tendency for friendly fire makes mixed setups rather sketchy outside of shielded decoys.

Melee at least doesn't have the problem of "He's eating my feet but I have a gun so I'll just keep trying to shoot him over and over until he chews his way up to my liver even though he interrupts me every single time" when attacked by a squirrel with them set to defend themselves.

Edit: I can spell, I swear I can. Really.

[RemingtonRyder]

I like the idea of these bugs having some kind of hierarchy. By which I mean that hives can do something other than just reproducing themselves.

For example, maybe an initial goal of this hierarchy is to clear space for a bigger hive, which is let's say a 2x2 building instead of the puny 1x1, and needs a clearance of 1 tile all around. If for some reason there aren't any digger or builder bugs available to accomplish that, it can choose to expend its energy spawning those instead of making a copy of itself.

One of the perks of having a bigger hive might be the ability to produce a greater variety of insect castes. Or perhaps a more centralised hive mind which is more organised - currently, digging bugs can tunnel away everything supporting the roof over the hives.

[killer117]

I see why melee is better, i do, but i still think an advanced laser rifle held by a power armour wearing soldier with sixteen shooting in a tight corridor, should be able to kill a couple bugs at least, rather than just annoy them with the light damage they take. Especially as hes got three simarly equipped but less skiled friends helping him

[RemingtonRyder]

Sometimes, no matter what enemy you're dealing with, a direct assault is going to be costly.

For example, if you can trap the bugs in a fairly enclosed space and roll in some molotovs (maybe with your ranged guys drawing attention) you can let the elements do the work of incapacitating the enemy.

In a mountain base it's actually quite easy to make that trap work - your internal walls are likely rock (or stone bricks because you get piles of it from digging so deep) and don't burn. You're often forced to compromise on room size because you don't quite have the same elbow room that you do outside. Finally, you sometimes need to dig tunnels for mining or to exhaust hot air from your coolers.

By the time I got an infestation in my current mountain colony, I'd already won because of how the battlefield was arranged. Even if the hives hadn't spawned in and next to an exhaust tunnel, I could have built a temporary tunnel into their nest and blammo, same tactic works.

[Mathenaut]

I feel melee is very underestimated in the game community. Possibly due to people's aversions to
any and all damage to their pawns.

This is because serious injuries proc randomly and are often irrecoverable and severe (i.e. scars). So yeah, people keep their pawns away from random permanent debuffs (and no, that's not 'realistic', which is why the response behavior is so extreme).

[whoishigh]

I feel melee is very underestimated in the game community. Possibly due to people's aversions to
any and all damage to their pawns.

This is because serious injuries proc randomly and are often irrecoverable and severe (i.e. scars). So yeah, people keep their pawns away from random permanent debuffs (and no, that's not 'realistic', which is why the response behavior is so extreme).

This. I'm fine with my colonists taking damage, I'm less fine with having a colony crippled by a year's worth of squirrel attacks.

Even then, the ability to make tactical decisions is supposed to be one of the main selling points behind this game. Who in their right mind is going to charge a massive, man-eating bug with little more than a stone club or a knife? I'll stick to a fireteam armed with shotguns, thanks.

[killer117]

Sometimes, no matter what enemy you're dealing with, a direct assault is going to be costly.

For example, if you can trap the bugs in a fairly enclosed space and roll in some molotovs (maybe with your ranged guys drawing attention) you can let the elements do the work of incapacitating the enemy.

In a mountain base it's actually quite easy to make that trap work - your internal walls are likely rock (or stone bricks because you get piles of it from digging so deep) and don't burn. You're often forced to compromise on room size because you don't quite have the same elbow room that you do outside. Finally, you sometimes need to dig tunnels for mining or to exhaust hot air from your coolers.

By the time I got an infestation in my current mountain colony, I'd already won because of how the battlefield was arranged. Even if the hives hadn't spawned in and next to an exhaust tunnel, I could have built a temporary tunnel into their nest and blammo, same tactic works.

I know my attack mathod may be costly, but id like it if my team killed just one spider. I loaded the save three times to see if my method of shooter to either side with somone opening the door, would work. Total i think i killed 3 megascarabs and a spelopede. For how advanced my troops are id like just 1 megaspider kill to be happy that my guys died in a fair fight, but seeing my advanced weapons only annoy them, while 2 melee hits was enough to end each of my colonists, i just reloaded and dev moded them away, cause thats just not right. I know the conditions aren't ideal, but for my lvl of gear i should still be making a sizeable dent in them at least, rather than annoying them

[Vaporisor]

Well, I have had a few bug ones, but one was almost really bad.  They just popped up in center of my prison with no warning and bam!!!!  My warden/high skilled doctor was right in the middle of it all treating prisoner from a raid.  Luckily didn't die, but was a tough one to rescue and took a serious high risk assault to break in.  Only reason was able to is I have an animal handler raising cougars and grizzlies that was able to release em all for a final push.

I feel the following change should be made.

1.  Red hive warning "One of your colonists hear digging from beneath your floors" or similar
2.  Make use of the new shader layer showing damage to show where they are digging through the flooring into your colony
3.  After a bit of time (on par with a raid dropping in), bugs and hives break in.

To comment on comments, what killer said is a risk.  Though if you have longer clear hallways, it is possible to sniper em out without the hard melee risks.  Not sure why the troubles though, my smaller group seemed to shoot em out if I had some range positioning to start the aggro then used hide and cover tactics to finish em off.  But in a very large one, they are quite difficult.

The fire strategy is a good one, but I had a colony pop up in a cooler once.  That is my entire food supply burned to burn em out, not good.  Grenades is an effective strategy if you are fast on moving em and have a couple.  Worst case can tunnel to near by them, making a doorway before breaching tunnel.  I set three guys or more near the doorway if I can that is within throwing range.  I have it hold open as I send my digger to breach the wall to the bugs.  Once the hole breaks, they throw their grenades and the digger runs past to close the door again.  Usually can do some damage to give the advantage.

[RemingtonRyder]

If you're not wild about the possibility of fire damage, a slower and more controlled approach to increasing temperatures is possible. It's resource intensive, as you'll need to set up a bunch of heaters in a neighbouring room, then deconstruct the adjoining wall and make a run for it.

Set the temperature for about 100C. In no time at all the bugs will be on the deck and you can mop up with ease. You'll need to re-freeze your food, of course, but it shouldn't spoil before you finish off the bugs.

[Vaporisor]

If you're not wild about the possibility of fire damage, a slower and more controlled approach to increasing temperatures is possible. It's resource intensive, as you'll need to set up a bunch of heaters in a neighbouring room, then deconstruct the adjoining wall and make a run for it.

Set the temperature for about 100C. In no time at all the bugs will be on the deck and you can mop up with ease. You'll need to re-freeze your food, of course, but it shouldn't spoil before you finish off the bugs.

Ooh, that is a good idea, I like the concept of cooking em out

[AllenWL]

I feel melee is very underestimated in the game community. Possibly due to people's aversions to
any and all damage to their pawns.

This is because serious injuries proc randomly and are often irrecoverable and severe (i.e. scars). So yeah, people keep their pawns away from random permanent debuffs (and no, that's not 'realistic', which is why the response behavior is so extreme).

In my opinion, unless you lose an entire limb or a hand/foot, it's not really that bad of a injury. Sure, they're less effective than uninjured people, but scars only do so much, and the -15 or so social from being disfigured isn't too bad. And unless it's a missing limb, even mediocre treatment is enough to heal them fully without scars.
Other then a few rare injuries like eyeball injuries or brain wounds, you rarely get 'random permanent debuffs'
...
Usually.

[Britnoth]

It already works this way, just the delay is really little - only 12 seconds before hives do the initial spawn. It's not much, but actually enough to move your pawns out of the way even if you have to deconstruct a steel wall or two. And it's actually longer than drop pod open time which is roughly 8.5 seconds.

What version are you playing where they wait for 12 seconds? It is more like 2 seconds for me...

If they spawn in a bedroom, they often incapacitate them before they can get out the door...

[AllenWL]

Could be the difference between the game speeds.

Though, I got an idea for insect hives.
Instead of all 4, 5 popping out at once, after the 'hive has opened up' warning, only one hive will spawn, then the other hives will pop up one by one with say, one hive every 1, 2 in-game hours. So when your colony has is as wealthy as can be with 50+ people or whatever, you don't get 10-something hives popping out at once with 10-something bugs out and about, but one hive, then another, then another, then another, till all hives are out.

Ex: You get a infestation, and due to your wealth, you get 5 hives.
Currently, all 5 pop out at once, then all spawn the bugs at once, basically throwing 5 bugs at your face within a in-game hour.
With my idea, a single hive will pop out first, then spawn it's bug after whatever delay it has. Then, somewhere between 1 and 2 (in-game)hours later, another hive will spawn, then 1, 2 hours after, another hive spawns, then another, until all five hives have spawned.

This way, it gives your colonists a chance to run away or at least not get horribly mauled instantly, and gives you some time to get your people assembled without 5+ bugs eating your walls, but still keeps hives a threat and doesn't leave defenseless hives around to kill.

The alert can change to say something like 'A underground insects are creating hives. They will create hives for (random time), after which the hives will reproduce on their own'