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Hope this doesn't sound too much like a 'how many weapons?' question, but is there a way to beat the game? 

When I beat FTL the first(and last time) my desire to play just evaporated.  Every time I'd try to play again and didn't run into some of the conditions that helped me win originally I'd get frustrated at the game 'screwing me over'. 

Laser swords? 

There's no endgame.

I have ideas about the idea of giving the colony long-term quests that act a little bit like the story sequence of some other games. There'd be a series of events leading to a conclusion. But there's no reason for me to force the colony to end afterwards.

The only trouble here is that right now you can get into a state where you've pretty much done and got everything in the game. Researched, built, and acquired everything. It's up to me now to extend the time until you get close to that by:

• Adding more content
• Designing systems to combine and recombine into new situations forever

Giving the premises of the game, one obvious end would be rebuilding a space ship and getting out of there.

Been thinking more about that. I think it's a good idea, it's been on the list for a while.

Of course most of the AI storytellers will make sure that not everyone gets out scot-free. Look forward to some crazy shit going down as you near completion of the escape ship.

I think it could be a really interesting long-term quest, what with having to acquire various parts by trading or manufacturing, and put them together.

I definitely agree with that :)

Edit: Now that I got to the point where I can trade, it struck me as odd that you would trade with passing spaceships when you are stranded on a moon after your spaceship crashed. I mean, can't you just ask for a ride home?  ???

Maybe you can't afford it?

It would have been a good reason if I weren't fully stocked on weapons of all sorts. I even have been able to buy a slave!  :o

I mean, it makes sense in a context where I would have to settle a piece of unknown land for a living, but it's less likely in a Robinson-like setting.

Who knows how expensive interplanetary travel is? Could cost a fortune!

Anyway, I'll have to think about that. It is a bit odd.

I have an idea for endgame. The spaceship idea seems nice, but what about if you make it so people get anxious the more spaceship you build, that they will be left behind. You could leave soon with one person, trying to get a stealth "win" out of it, but the longer and more you build on the ship, the more people will fit onto it, but also the more everyone thinks they are the person that will be left behind. That way, you would have a difficulty curve/endgame difficulty spike at the end, trying to rescue people, as they go mad while completing the final project. Could of course be counteracted by other mood affecting things, but maybe it can be done in-game.

So basically, making the ship means collecting lots of tough-to-get resources by trading, theft, construction, research, etc and assembling them into the ship.

I really want to do some drama at the end of the game where not all the colonists can go, or really bad things start happening just as you approach the finish line. Again, this is all storyteller-driven. Because that's how real stories work best - great challenge near the climactic finish line. No reason we can't generate that adaptively in a simulation.

It's also possible that colonists could start exhibiting some special behaviors when they anticipate being left behind (like pre-emptive psychotic breaks).

There could be a fixed timed deadline, like the approach of a killer asteroid or the eruption of a volcano, or the spread of a life-consuming disease, slowly razing everything that moves from the map. The last two examples are inspired by Outpost 2.

The tension could rise during a project as the workload increase by adding a similar happiness feature to Towns : colonists eventually grow tired or angry of working non-stop, and idling replenishes their happiness gauge. Drinking malted beverages or playing virtual reality game could help relaxing also.

The tension could further rise by interest matching : if two colonists that can't stand each other have to work together for an extended period of time, trouble will arise. That feature is inspired by Zafehouse Diaries (http://www.desura.com/games/zafehouse-diaries) which is a wonderful story-driven zombie survival game that I recommend to anyone.

I disapprove of a fixed deadline/ending time, because it would make the game too samey.

I think the player should be able to progress into more stressful gameplay by himself, similar to Dwarf Fortress. If you keep your value low, you wouldn't get nobles early. Similar here if you keep yourself hidden and low (maybe not researching, not sending active signals) you could get less activitiy (less raids).

But yea a fixed timed deadline sounds bad to me. I like endless gameplay. The deadline could be made for a story or challenge missions, but not the default game mode in my opinion.

I also like the player-controlled pace, like in AI:War where the enemy AI gets more poweful and aggressive when you destroy valuable targets (which makes some targets worthless, since the retaliation would be greater than the actual threat of the target). Until then, he's just sending small waves to keep the player on is toes.

The good thing is that since players choose which AI storyteller they want at game start, we can make different storytellers who approach these in different ways.

The simulation itself can handle a wide variety of story types - short, long, hard, easy, small population, large population, time-limited or no. Why limit the game to one?

So it's possible we could, say, create one storyteller who sends a meteor after a few seasons, thus time-limiting the game. Others wouldn't have to.

Quote from: Hypolite on September 17, 2013, 01:44:37 PM
It would have been a good reason if I weren't fully stocked on weapons of all sorts. I even have been able to buy a slave!  :o

I mean, it makes sense in a context where I would have to settle a piece of unknown land for a living, but it's less likely in a Robinson-like setting.

Now, I havnt played the game, but couldnt you make them Un-manned Trading stations that just kinda float/fly around searching for outposts/ships etc...

I think if you are able to create multiple storytellers, wouldn't they be things like "Spaceship arc" "Pirate arc" "Trading arc" "Wildlife arc" "Xeno Arc" and things like that and you would want to be able to have your storyteller to mix them together? I am currently unsure where the random context comes from. I think a mixing of story arcs that is randomized and could be customized by the player at the start would be a good thing (think setting Pirates to high would not mean more pirates but more pirate story arc events). Those story arcs shouldn't all be fixed (pirates always being negative), but be branching paths and somewhat randomized paths to give lots of re-playability. Imagine the pirate-arc having a randomized path of the pirates suddenly deciding to communicate with you, asking you to turn the area into a pirate base, which would suddenly mean that you, if you accept, would need to take care of several uncontrollable NPCs, but they would protect you (as long as you provide for them). In the end, there could be branching paths like them demanding you build a spaceship for them too, where you could do so, not do so (possible fight?) or try to secretly escape when they are busy fighting something.

I hope that made somewhat sense. People could decide to have a calm game by setting arcs to low/none, so story events wouldn't fire as much or even never to just try and survive.

So for endgame that would mean
"Spaceship arc" - build a spaceship to escape
"Trading arc" - maybe possible to get a trading spaceship to land, if you are really trade heavy, could trigger things from the pirate arc of course
"Pirate arc" - try to steal a pirate spaceship as a possible endgame, should it happen
"Wildlife arc" - I guess this would cause a lot of savage animals roaming your area in the search for food
"Environment arc" - dangerous environmental changes could happen (flooding, climate change, wildfire spreading to your area)
"Xeno arc" - hostile non-humans threaten your existance (could be sentient plants or people, natives from the homeworld)
"Science arc" - trying to build a teleporter to get you off planet could lead to the teleporter turning back on you, opening a portal to a "fun" place, which you must survive until you can reprogram the damn thing to work again (and try a second time)
"Society arc" - could lead to people demanding democracy, dicatorship or simly cause trouble from people starting to hate each other as things get better and better and they don't have to work with each other as often
"Economy arc" - Things like farming could cause endgame plants to mutate from your crops by science, so you can get better output or it could cause catastrophe

That's a few ideas for how to set up endgame.

Quote from: WolveNZ on September 18, 2013, 03:22:55 AM
Now, I havnt played the game, but couldnt you make them Un-manned Trading stations that just kinda float/fly around searching for outposts/ships etc...

Or it could be land trade instead of spaceship trade. It would make more sense in a "building a new spaceship" scenario. No outside communications, just trade with other moon dwellers.

Just an honest suggestion, but the best scenario to getting around the logic-trouble of trading with other spaceships; not just locals, would be solved by saying that the planet/moon you've crash-landed on is designated as a no-fly-zone/quarantined, or is a pre-spaceflight world that the greater galactic community are banned from interacting with.

That way you'd communicate to passing ships who'd airdrop supplies you bartered for. Pirates and slavers don't respect the law and could land remote-controlled shuttles on the surface to set up an assault/base or simply to cart off your colonists. [This way you could take apart shuttles that don't escape for materials and excuse the possibility of using it to leave because it only works thanks to greater ship in orbit.]

Thoughts? Comments?

In DF, the game increases attacks and their difficulty based on the cumulative value produced by the player. If you make a spaceship build the end-game goal, you can make it so that it requires a lot of valuable parts/fuel resources. It may be not so difficult to get the infrastructure in place to slowly churn these out, but as your stockpile grows each day, the ferocity of enemy attacks grows with it. This may not be linear growth either...

Point is that as you get closer to that finish line, you have to spend more and more resources/manpower on defense and triage. With any medium+ difficulty storyteller, this should mean that you would even need to start preparing in advance of the final spaceship run given how much value/ferocity would be built up over its course (simple passively reacting to the increased difficulty would not be sufficient for a typically experienced player).

Additionally, adding in new attack elements with certain levels of ferocity would create new situations in the later game. For example, adding in siege machines or other war machines or better weaponry. This makes sense since at first perhaps you're only under attack by roaming bands and local resistance, but as your value of production increases, you become a larger and juicier target that draws in more advanced, larger, and more coordinated attacks from afar. Hell, if aliens were found with a near-complete spaceship on Earth, what wouldn't we throw at them to get it?

Or even if the aliens eschewed a ship and just built up their tech and facilities. Each level up in tech should have a correspondingly higher (like 10x) amount of value attached to it, and the difficulty curve for assaults can also go up a level once the cumulative value also increases 10x or so of the previous value limit.

So, like basic furniture is $1 of value, as are basic walls. Basic power generators are like $5. Advanced power generators are $50. Hi-tech power generators $500. So, at $0-100 you get small bands attacking, at $101-1000 you get larger ones with basic vehicles, at $1001-10,000 you get like a modern army, at $10K-100K you get the whole deal, like a full on fortress defense.

Endgame Scenario:

-> the Federation of Planets find your Colony!
--> you*ve illegally settled on that planet
---> you leave, or you*ll be ereased
----> endless strom off sieges
-----> losing is FUN!  ;D

Quote from: xTAMERx on October 05, 2013, 12:19:44 PM
Endgame Scenario:

-> the Federation of Planets find your Colony!
--> you*ve illegally settled on that planet
---> you leave, or you*ll be ereased
----> endless strom off sieges
-----> losing is FUN!  ;D

Eh, "losing is fun" depends on the game.

Quote from: Yarkista on October 05, 2013, 01:38:19 PM

Quote from: xTAMERx on October 05, 2013, 12:19:44 PM
Endgame Scenario:

-> the Federation of Planets find your Colony!
--> you*ve illegally settled on that planet
---> you leave, or you*ll be ereased
----> endless strom off sieges
-----> losing is FUN!  ;D

Eh, "losing is fun" depends on the game.

If done within the right parameters losing can be fun.

If the sieges are just non stop critter throwing on your planet its not.
But if you can actually make something real out of it.
Regroup after a siege rebuild train up. Its like onslaught how long can you last before it becomes to hard.

Honestly... the fun about a simulation game is that i can play it again with a different gamexperience. At least for me. Endcontent could be nice, in a spirit of ending a story, but a goal itself like to build a escape ship or create a time/space teleporter (No, don´t try to test it! You will end up with a Teleglich! *wink,wink*) isn´t that mutch needed, i guess.

I would like to see that more effort goes into variarity of the things you can construct and the possibilitys of cross-interaction. Like a Water pump. First you pump water and use it to drink. Later you use it to synthesize chemicals, and then you could use it to create gas based fuel system, just as a example, or even create a new grenade with the gas or gas-driven tools/weapons that use compressed oxygen and so on.

I think loosing is fun could work pretty well with this Sim, btw. It only depends on what you can do and create. I really wouldn´t mind if i end up after days with 300 colonists and a giant smooth running mashine, then a virus hits my colony and boom i got a mass riot and chaos going on there! Muahaha. Yeah that would be fun and tottaly worth it as a "end"game content. :P

I'd rather have some sort of endgame where I create a thriving settlement that begins to attract people to it as they hear about it.

Depending on the lore of the game, I actually like the idea of eventually after having a successful, thriving outpost, you are contacted by the Federation and are offered membership as a colony of the Federation.  Then how the game continues from there I don't know.  Your outpost becomes the capital city of a colonization effort or is just a game ending scenario.

Quote from: Pheanox on October 05, 2013, 05:19:20 PM
Depending on the lore of the game, I actually like the idea of eventually after having a successful, thriving outpost, you are contacted by the Federation and are offered membership as a colony of the Federation.  Then how the game continues from there I don't know.  Your outpost becomes the capital city of a colonization effort or is just a game ending scenario.

Wow, I realy, realy like this idea, it would be a brilliant end game, or late game thing which could ebe expanded into more and more things.

Best idea I've heard so far on the foums.

That's a pretty good idea for a succession game style of play.  Build the colony up, and then send out new colonies.  Personally, I'd prefer a variety of goals, not just every game being "build a ship to escape".

Quote from: AspenShadow on October 05, 2013, 10:05:04 AM
Just an honest suggestion, but the best scenario to getting around the logic-trouble of trading with other spaceships; not just locals, would be solved by saying that the planet/moon you've crash-landed on is designated as a no-fly-zone/quarantined, or is a pre-spaceflight world that the greater galactic community are banned from interacting with.

That way you'd communicate to passing ships who'd airdrop supplies you bartered for. Pirates and slavers don't respect the law and could land remote-controlled shuttles on the surface to set up an assault/base or simply to cart off your colonists. [This way you could take apart shuttles that don't escape for materials and excuse the possibility of using it to leave because it only works thanks to greater ship in orbit.]

Thoughts? Comments?

I also think this needs more explanation in game. Maybe it's not completely the right topic to discuss this, but I'm with you on this.

Quote from: Pheanox on October 05, 2013, 05:19:20 PM
Depending on the lore of the game, I actually like the idea of eventually after having a successful, thriving outpost, you are contacted by the Federation and are offered membership as a colony of the Federation.  Then how the game continues from there I don't know.  Your outpost becomes the capital city of a colonization effort or is just a game ending scenario.

Also liking your idea! This sounds great, maybe there should be a 'pirate alternative' depending on your AI-storyteller or your gameplay. Also, the game doesn't have to end right there, maybe you can build up a colony after this and get some kind of perks from your previous game. (It may be that this is a bit to far away from the core game, just putting out my thoughts).

Well, since Tynan said you could find tech levels from primitive to god-like high tech, perhaps the landing pods all come with some kind of highly advanced Matter Transmitter (Not for use with living matter!).  Automated trading ships drop your goods in landing pods, and your transmitter will beam your goods up.  But if you try to beam yourself up, you turn inside out.

After your successful colony is approved by the Federation (Or whatever centralized government there is) a passenger ship is sent to your world to join.  Unfortunately, the ship breaks down, and 3 hopeful new colonists get stranded on yet another world...

New Game + mode.

Quote from: Pheanox on October 05, 2013, 06:02:45 PM
After your successful colony is approved by the Federation (Or whatever centralized government there is) a passenger ship is sent to your world to join.  Unfortunately, the ship breaks down, and 3 hopeful new colonists get stranded on yet another world...

New Game + mode.

Rinse and repeat

Perhaps it could be interesting if your colonists each had a personal desire / ambition for the colony. One that could change over time depending on what happened.

Examples might be:

1: Build a spaceship and leave
2: Build a successful colony
3: Join the pirate faction

Your first 3 colonists would all start with number 1. They've just crashed, their desire would be to try and leave. That then is a long term goal you could try for (assuming you want to reach an end-game) or ignore.

As time goes on, if your colonists start having children etc, spending more time in the colony, some of them might want to stay. So their ambition changes to 2: build a successful colony (by meeting certain criteria like population, food in storage, happiness etc).

The idea here is that no matter which you decide to aim for, some members of your colony will probably desire something else. You then get to make a choice on what to strive for.

So even if 9 out of 10 of your colonists desire to leave on a ship, some will want to stay -- that stubborn merc who has nothing to go back to but whom everyone respected decides to stay behind on his own... etc.

So every 'victory' could be a little bitter sweet. I like the idea that even in finishing up a game, I can still imagine the narratives of those who didn't get what they wanted. That even though my game has finished, the narratives of that universe still continue on a little in my head.

Unlike many, I find an endgame goal is essential for keeping my interest in a game. If I don't have some ultimate objective to direct my efforts to, I lose interest after a while. I've seen some good ideas for endgame scenarios in this thread, and I hope some of them will eventually be included in the game. Possibly the best way to go about it is to make them opt-in via the storyteller system; after all a lot of people prefer to play without set goals and endings.

Quote from: BTAxis on October 06, 2013, 05:50:56 AM
Unlike many, I find an endgame goal is essential for keeping my interest in a game. If I don't have some ultimate objective to direct my efforts to, I lose interest after a while. I've seen some good ideas for endgame scenarios in this thread, and I hope some of them will eventually be included in the game. Possibly the best way to go about it is to make them opt-in via the storyteller system; after all a lot of people prefer to play without set goals and endings.

There's at least one possible ending that is likely to get in:
You'll have the possibility to build a ship.
So if you want an ending, you build it and leave.
If you want to carry on colonizing, then you don't build it.

Most important thing is to make this end-game optional imo, though this assumes that the base game will be complex and open-ended enough to make it worthwhile to continue on.

Quote from: DNK on October 06, 2013, 07:49:56 AM
Most important thing is to make this end-game optional imo, though this assumes that the base game will be complex and open-ended enough to make it worthwhile to continue on.

Wut ?
Allow me to quote myself (the post right before yours):

Quote from: British on October 06, 2013, 06:04:48 AM
So if you want an ending, you build it and leave.
If you want to carry on colonizing, then you don't build it.

How is that *not* optional ? ???

And I'm not pulling it off thin air, here's what Tynan said on the KS comments, answering to that very question:
"Edward Leighton Bourque III
I absolutely adore this game idea, it looks like so much fun! Just please, if you want to add an endgame, make it completely optional.

Tynan Sylvester
@Edward - Endgame will definitely be optional. After all, I can't force you to build an escape ship.

It would be cool if you could turn your colony into the port where pirates and other "free spirits" came to spend their cash etc. Sort of like a free harbor. And you would have to defend your port from both internal and external threats of "anti-freedom forces".

About the spaceship paradox:

Lets assume that there are different ways to get faster than the light. So there might be tech levels that are able to cross to stars in the vicinity (<50 light years) but their method is not practical for greater distances (takes too long, uses too much of some scarce fuel, damaging health effects...). Your home civilization was some tech levels above and could produce ships with a range of more than 500 light years (maybe you even came on a prototype). Since it is a completely different method of hyperspace travel or uses wormholes instead of hyperspace you can't just capture and improve local ships. There is also no contact to your own civilization possible.

You also come in contact with other civilizations of your own tech level, but even for them travelling 500 light years is a mayor undertaking. They won't just transport you there because the round trip would cost them half their lives (or in the case of wormhole travel returning is likely to fail as you yourself found out, crashing on the planet was the best possible outcome of using the worm hole in that direction). Buying a ship from them might eventually be possible but your colony is aware that they can go home much faster if they build the ship themselves.

What about a 'Reavers' continuation option?
One game ends when you successfully build a ship and escape. Another game starts on the same map with new crashed landlanded colonists - except your old colony is still there and the old members who got left behind have all gone mad. Essentially your old colony is now your enemy, it'd be like playing against yourself.

Quote from: Ontogenesis on October 06, 2013, 03:48:30 PM
What about a 'Reavers' continuation option?
One game ends when you successfully build a ship and escape. Another game starts on the same map with new crashed landlanded colonists - except your old colony is still there and the old members who got left behind have all gone mad. Essentially your old colony is now your enemy, it'd be like playing against yourself.

So you have all your previous architecture and resources which makes most of the game pointless?

Quote from: Yarkista on October 06, 2013, 03:53:20 PM

Quote from: Ontogenesis on October 06, 2013, 03:48:30 PM
What about a 'Reavers' continuation option?
One game ends when you successfully build a ship and escape. Another game starts on the same map with new crashed landlanded colonists - except your old colony is still there and the old members who got left behind have all gone mad. Essentially your old colony is now your enemy, it'd be like playing against yourself.

So you have all your previous architecture and resources which makes most of the game pointless?

Well, you wouldn't have ownership over anything so wouldn't be able to use doors or access the gathered resources. Plus they'd be filled with hostile and chaotic survivors. You could also simulate a time gap and cause random heavy damage and structures to all the structures.
The basic idea is playing a post-apocalyptic version of your own previous world.

Quote from: Ontogenesis on October 06, 2013, 04:00:07 PM

Quote from: Yarkista on October 06, 2013, 03:53:20 PM

Quote from: Ontogenesis on October 06, 2013, 03:48:30 PM
What about a 'Reavers' continuation option?
One game ends when you successfully build a ship and escape. Another game starts on the same map with new crashed landlanded colonists - except your old colony is still there and the old members who got left behind have all gone mad. Essentially your old colony is now your enemy, it'd be like playing against yourself.

So you have all your previous architecture and resources which makes most of the game pointless?

Well, you wouldn't have ownership over anything so wouldn't be able to use doors or access the gathered resources. Plus they'd be filled with hostile and chaotic survivors. You could also simulate a time gap and cause random heavy damage and structures to all the structures.
The basic idea is playing a post-apocalyptic version of your own previous world.

Yea but it could be repaired and then you would have nothing to do, it just seems that it'd be fun for half an hour then become boring.

I think this is being over-complicated a little, games like this were never really designed with an end-game in mind and I hope this one doesn't have an end-game either.

If people want an end-game the viable possibilities I see are:

- If your base has expanded over a certain percentage of map, or have a certain population then you split from them and travel to a different sector of the same planet (that little map isn't all one world) and start anew with 1-3 chosen colonists from your old one.

- If you're being raided mercilessly by pirates and slavers then your base eventually falls and one of your colonists (choose) is kidnapped to be sold and once again has the worst luck to be jettisoned onto a RimWorld when the slavers get in trouble.

- An astronomical disaster (solar wind, sun expansion, black hole, etc.) forces you to vacate your world and colony by building a space-ship. Perhaps not everyone can fit when time's up depending on your effort put in and when you escape to the next RimWorld you have more/less people.

- Your colony has become a galactic hub famed for it's unusual and inspiring beginning, the Galactic Governing Body (GGB) has bestowed you with official recognition and asked that you select three of your best and brightest to start a new colony somewhere else in much the same fashion.

- You have succeeded in creating a great colony, unfortunately others don't see it that way and the GGB come in to take control of your colony for trumped-up charges. You are exiled for your crime to a RimWorld they're positive no-one could survive on... [Possibility of increasingly difficult worlds?]

- The latest Reaver idea was that you'd be incapable of using your old base (as a significant period of time or disaster has passed) and that you'd have to build up a new base from scratch interspersed with attacks from your old-game-colony. Really it's equivalent to starting a new game with an unfriendly high-tech tribe that gives you a sense of nostalgia.

I think if i would take a endgame, it would be intressting to get a choice in the end. The possibility of a spaceship to evacuate was discussed several times. But i would like a other way too.

I thought about that. Yes, you could evacuate. But the Universe is cruel and cold. So should you really go out there, back to the chaos where you used to live and the other refugees? Ã'r choose to make a final stand and show the local pirates/raiders that you won´t be a easy target and that you will stay on this world.

Somebody watched Voyager, the episode in the last season where Neelix decides to stay with his people? They make a final stand agains a aggression by deploying a shield-grid to defend themself. I thought about a similar possibility. Instead of investing ressources into a evacutation ship, you invest it in a planet-defense grid of some sort. Like Ground to Orbit defense weapons, a shield-grid or some kind of Sattelite Defense System, a final grand-project to claim the Planet and secure it as a real colony that can beginn to expand into a nation of the galactic community. And while you set up that final defenseline that will secure you from future pirate/mercenary/raider/slaver attacks, they will mount a last and massive offense, a real big one, with troops streaming down like rain to defeat you before you can secure that RimWorld.

At least that would be cool, i think. After that this new Nation could send out Scoutpartys to "new" RimWorlds, because you expanded the core of the Community further, and bam, you are crash again ^^

(Sorry for the long post - TL;DR - just very excited about the game!)
As an alternative option for “end game” mechanics, (and it depends on how much of a “meta game” Tynan wants in there) but as an option that jumped into my head:

1 - The game runs as is (with all the AI director events, etc) and the player decides to build the “escape ship”, and launches it and off it goes. At this stage, some of the colonists are left behind (and Tynan, I think, has hinted this “left behind” concept is planned to have !!fun!!, potentially even settlement ending, effects).
If the player “completes” this several times (say, 3).

2 - When enough have made their way back to “civilization”, where/whatever that may be, and so the existence of a “viable” human survivor’s enclave is known.  At this point, a MegaCorp of some sort would send an emissary, and set up a deal, either with the colony that launched the 3rd escape ship, or as a triggerable event once a new colony gets to a certain size (if launching an escape ship kills your colony). The deal is for a certain (horrendously large) volume of goods, the MegaCorp will tow a space station core into orbit (or sell the designs to make it). The goal then becomes to get sufficient materials off planet, either just with the one colony, or with several spread over the planet, if Tynan lets you have several active colonies (as saved games) on the same planet. It should probably be difficult for the player (since chasing this metagame mechanic would be done by a player looking for new challenges), so the player needs to “Launch” the goods, instead of having one of the travelling merchants picking it up. So they have to have enough colony development and size to have a basic space industry (and hence being attacked/challenged by appropriate scale/level of baddies). If you need a mechanism/story for this, say it’s because the big Cargo MegaCorp Freighters are run by computer (i.e. no/minimal crew or life support) and are too big/not programmed to enter anywhere near a poorly charted sun’s gravity well. To pick up the MegaCorp cargo, the player needs to get it launched to the edge of the solar system (where the Freighter travels). That would also explain why the travelling merchants won’t pick up passengers for transport back to civilization, cause they can’t get away from the solar system either, they just sell to the Freighters . .

3 - When you, through whatever system, get enough “paid” or delivered into the MegaCorp’s account, they deliver the starting module. The player then has the option to play on a “space station” map, and try to build that up, in that environment, with all that entails (minimal easy-to-aquire resources, food shortages, any power outages would be survival critical, no ability to hide in bomb-proof mountain sides, meteor showers blowing entire sections off/up). Enemies attacking you in orbit would likely bring ships with them, with appropriate levels of fire power.

4 â€" if you somehow survive all that, you can start selecting to send colonists to new (more challenging or different challenging) environments. Feel life is still not challenging enough? Target an ice world (no/minimal light for growing and power). Target a lava world (mineral rich, but no crop growing, no water and everything keeps catching on fire. Any above ground movement will need metal paths built). A planet with toxic gases in the atmosphere (anything above ground keeps breaking all the time, colonists keep getting sick and you’re in constant need of a doctor). Want an extra challenge? Instead of colonists, send political exiles (i.e., no supplies, no tech, no food. Equivalent of a “one pick embark” from dwarf fortress). If you want a reason for the player to be pushed to accept these challenges, say the harder planets have materials needed for starbase expansion (exotic materials for larger power generator, or for a field generator to increase structural strength of station or the weight of its own expansions will tear itself apart, designs from alien tech in a ruin on a planet which will allow a shield to protect against meteor shower). If you want a reason for a “1 pick” mission, say after population gets above a certain point, you start having coups all the time. You need to show authoritive power (get rid of dissidents) but not be a complete bloodthirsty murderous dictator (you need to give them a “chance of success” rather than just execution). So, I guess a “successful” 1 pick colony would effectively be a penal colony? And at that point you start getting more and more dissidents exiled to you.

5 - I guess the next step would then be taking the penal colony residents, and trying to take back over the star base . . ? 

So, if you want to chase an "end-game", then you work your way through the above. And if you want to play on a vanilla planet, just enjoying where the Narrator takes you, then just keep making small colonies on the first planet. The main thing behind the above would be to give a “storyline” reason for the player to be able to push the difficulty (planet/starting equipment). Of course, if Tynan is just planning to give you the option to “Set up game starting parameters manually” right from the start, I guess you don’t really need it  :).

I read the FAQs about the goal of the game: leaving the planet. But a alternative goal is possible in my mind: to conquer the nature of this strange place and to colonize the planet. My idea is influenced by Star Trek where settlers crashes on a strange world and they resolve to making this place to their new homeworld. Why not? Why should I leaving the place that I'm developed and cultivated? ;-)

How about a 'revenge' story teller and potentially a end game

Back story:
Something big happened in your home world. you were summoned but ambushed by an unknown spacecraft on your way home. You managed to get rid of the attacker but your ship were heavily damaged, so you force landed on a closest habitatable planet. Unfortunately, your ship is completely gone, only you and the other two crews survived the crash.
you are looking for another way home.

behind the story:
The attacker was a mercenary. The one who hired them is someone you know but not revealed until the end. Apparently he want to get rid of you on low profile, because only by doing so he can claim what he wanted for a long time.

The attack was failed. However, your absence/missing made his wish become true. He still couldn't openly send a force to hunt you down, so he chose to secretly hire mercenaries and/or let his henchmen disguised like pirates to attack your last know location at all cost. You can't leave this planet just yet, because none of those passing trade ships have the required speed to return home in time and they suspect that you are the target of those constant raids, so they won't take the risk to take you on board.

During the time of figuring out a way home, you built up a colony and met many people from different races. You helped, saved, supported their cause, in exchange you learnt a lot from them, their advanced technology, their society, and earned their trust.

You successfully fended off those attacks, but time is not on you side. Rumor says the power of your home world have changed hands. And more urgently is that a rumor amount traders says a huge fleet of mercenaries ships and a Colossus-class battleship is heading to your sector with unknown intentions....

The ending will be:
1) Escape route, capture those henchmen and their evidences in previous fight, manage to build a fast enough shuttle with alien cloak tech to return your home world avoiding being detected by the fleet. Unless you don't have enough 'evidences' by then, you are eventually arrested and executed, secretly.

2) Ultimatum route, you didn't built your shuttle in time, the fleet showed up in your planet's orbit, demanding you, life or dead. You are forced to confront them.
  2a) use weapon technology learn from aliens to destroy the Colossus-class battleship and a majority of mercenaries' ships. some of them landed on your planet, you fight them on the ground.
  2b) use jamming technology learn from aliens to make the orbital cannon on that Colossus-class battleship can not fix on your current location. force them fight you on the ground.
  2c) use shield technology learn from aliens to render their orbital cannon ineffective against you, you fight them on the ground.
  2d) you failed to naturalize the battleship, and even thought you fought bravely you lost the battle.
  additional choices:
  by earning enough trust from your alien allies, they will aid you in the final battle.
  by having high enough social skill and/or huge amount of rare resources, you manage to bribe the leader of mercenaries to leave the battle or persuade him turn against their employer.

  final battle on the planet.
  Depends on the choice you made, the one behind all of this could be on board of the battleship supervising this attack. if you naturalized his ship, he will personally lead the assault on the ground.

3) Diplomacy route, by raising your diplomacy relationship with all your alien allies, and achieve mutual peace treaties with all parties, and by acting as neutral ground to build newly found 'Rim Alliance' on your planet. They will eventually accept your task and help you found out who is behind all this. Then officially declaration was announced that this planet is under the protection of newly formed Alien alliance. The mercenary fleet never showed up....

PS: I also propose that, player have access to all the generic technologies that all the races in the galaxy knows. Alien technology can only be accessed (Tech tree revealed) by 'acquiring' an alien scientist. They can be still humanoid, but have different culture.

Honestly, I would prefer if there was never an endgame, and the story was based entirely on the colony at hand. That was ty's idea at first, if I recall, following the progression of the colony. Though theres not much showing for it, you can sort of tell by the colony name being requested by the colonists after things start out. I think in the future there will be more events.

As for an endgame though....I think there shouldn't be ANY rush at all to have an endgame, whatsoever, especially considering the game is very bare bones ATM, so adding an endgame NOW would mean hell for balancing.

QuoteAs for an endgame though....I think there shouldn't be ANY rush at all to have an endgame, whatsoever

I am not suggesting an end game for all the game mod. It is just one story teller. Something for the developer to consider.

Right, I know, just with games being in development, adding an endgame (gameplay wise) can be super problematic, because then everything after MUST fit between the beginning, and the end....which if you are in the middle of development, is an awful idea.

My comments are mainly to the people who say the game needs an endgame right NOW, which I believe would actually be quite the detriment to the game, this early.

In Prison Architect you can sell your prison and use the money to build a bigger one.

So how about this:

How about this:

Pack up and resettle
- Choose some equipment / tech to bring with you
- Choose some people to bring with you
- Choose a new and harder AI
- Extra challenges only present in new game +

Quote from: Nailernforce on November 12, 2013, 04:48:02 PM
In Prison Architect you can sell your prison and use the money to build a bigger one.

So how about this:

How about this:

Pack up and resettle
- Choose some equipment / tech to bring with you
- Choose some people to bring with you
- Choose a new and harder AI
- Extra challenges only present in new game +

Plot wise that makes little sense though...why would a colony abandon a perfectly good and safe base to move into a new, possibly more dangerous area?

Quote from: mumblemumble on November 12, 2013, 05:25:17 PM

Quote from: Nailernforce on November 12, 2013, 04:48:02 PM
In Prison Architect you can sell your prison and use the money to build a bigger one.

So how about this:

How about this:

Pack up and resettle
- Choose some equipment / tech to bring with you
- Choose some people to bring with you
- Choose a new and harder AI
- Extra challenges only present in new game +

Plot wise that makes little sense though...why would a colony abandon a perfectly good and safe base to move into a new, possibly more dangerous area?

2 groups form within the colony and one decides to break off.  One group stays and the other leaves for the new colony.

A lot of ideas in this thread are jiving with how I compare this game to Tunnel in the Sky by Robert Heinlein.  Especially regarding the desire to escape being replaced by the desire to stay.  Of course when the actual decision comes you can be surprised by the choice people make.

Quote from: mumblemumble on November 12, 2013, 05:25:17 PM

Quote from: Nailernforce on November 12, 2013, 04:48:02 PM
In Prison Architect you can sell your prison and use the money to build a bigger one.

So how about this:

How about this:

Pack up and resettle
- Choose some equipment / tech to bring with you
- Choose some people to bring with you
- Choose a new and harder AI
- Extra challenges only present in new game +

Plot wise that makes little sense though...why would a colony abandon a perfectly good and safe base to move into a new, possibly more dangerous area?

It could be driven by things like the planet becoming uninhabitable due to pollution/change, food is harder to grow, we have depleted the planets mineral resources, the only way for the colony to suvive and keep expanding is to find new land to exploit..?

Since when has mankind ever been content with the colonies they have?
It's only natural that once a colony has reached "city status" that some adventurous souls might want to go colonise somewhere else.

Quote from: Fodd on October 12, 2013, 10:12:00 AM
(Sorry for the long post - TL;DR - just very excited about the game!)
As an alternative option for “end game” mechanics, (and it depends on how much of a “meta game” Tynan wants in there) but as an option that jumped into my head:

im gonna say, i agree with 99% of your entire post, perfect, "never ending cycle" with the ability to then have plenty of challenges for the player who "is always looking for the next challenge" much like myself.

Quote from: Pheanox on October 05, 2013, 05:19:20 PM
Depending on the lore of the game, I actually like the idea of eventually after having a successful, thriving outpost, you are contacted by the Federation and are offered membership as a colony of the Federation.  Then how the game continues from there I don't know.  Your outpost becomes the capital city of a colonization effort or is just a game ending scenario.

I like the idea of this, but I think it could be expanded. What if each of the ships that flies by was of a different faction? Say, 3-7 active factions depending on random story teller values. Each factions could have different attitudes towards you (friendly, downright hostile, neutral), could take different actions (trade with you, not interact with you, actually launch attacks from orbit), and that kind of thing. You could gain or lose reputation by how you interact with them (get reputation for trading, perhaps get reputation/honor for defeating an attack from some people, being mean to their enemies, being friendly to their friends, etc.).

That way each faction could have its own endgame concept that would only be unlocked if you brought your friendliness/reputation with them up enough. Furthermore, the faction or factions that are opposed to the faction you're trying to endgame with could become your mortal enemy, launching harder attacks and disrupting your trading as you try to complete an endgame goal.

Some examples:

Trading Race: Often starts friendly to the player. Has lots of trading ships. Players gain reputation by trading with them and giving them favorable bargains. Endgame allows this race to set up a permanent trading post above the planet, and the settlers erect some kind of planet to space defense system to protect it. This allows your colony to thrive, always having access to a huge amount of trade resources that are updated regularly.

Religious Race: Often starts neutral to the player. Has few ships that are traveling on pilgrimages to holy sites, etc. Raise rep by being respectful, trading crafts that increase happiness, giving donations… End game offers you a holy artifact for your colony, but you have to build enough defenses and a specific storage place for it before they give it to you. It could offer the colony an overall huge happiness boost, and pilgrims might occasionally come to visit (as well as others trying to steal it).

Militaristic Race: Often starts hostile to the player. Gain rep with acts of war, valor in battle, treating prisoners well, showing 'honor,' returning their men who you've taken prisoner, and being direct in communication. End game offers you an escape from the planet if you agree to be part of their warfront. This would incur hostilities from many other factions who fear that this faction will become too strong. To successfully complete it, you would be required to complete huge amounts of militarization and perhaps to build a combat ready ship to join them.

Pirate Race: Often starts hostile to the player. Raise reputation by committing chaotic acts, stealing, using gibbet cages, etc. End game would involve joining them in a joint venture to "raid" another place (much like we're raided now). This would involve gathering supplies and weapons and moving to a new map, where a small colony currently exists. The pirates would want you to raze the colony to the ground (which you might not do, but could cause a fight with them). Unfortunately, the colonists caught you coming and sabotaged your ship even as you defeat them (so you can't leave, and must start anew).

"Federation" Race: Often starts friendly to the player. Gain reputation by having a stable, peaceful colony, getting along with other races, and trading. Endgame could offer you a chance for escaping the colony, a chance to become an official colony, or pretty much your colonists choice of how they want it to end. The Federation ending could be the catch-all, allowing you to have some end game drama but not necessarily changing anything major and allowing you to keep playing your colony as-is if you want.

I have a simple and elegant solution. Well, maybe not super simple in execution (but I'm not a coder). What if when you finish a play through by constructing and loading and launching a ship it creates a special save file and opens up a new option on the main menu of the game called "New Game+" or "The Journey Continues". By clicking on this menu and selecting your save you can start a new colony but the save file remembers which planet you settled on and does not allow you to select that planet again, so probably you will have to make a new one to land on. The new play through will load the difficulty setting from the pervious game completed and bump it up a notch (consecutively every time you do this). When the game starts it picks a random set of 3 (maybe 4?) crew members (exactly as you loaded them with gear and skills and health). But never fear you might get the other crew later on in the form of random events. As you keep playing may drop your other crew that you didn't get initially (though maybe there is a chance that they don't come back alive, scaling with story teller difficulty?). I think there definitely should be an element of tension to see who from your crew you will get and who was not so lucky to join you on your next adventure. The added difficulty on each consecutive play through makes each new game exciting because although your colonists are stronger the conditions are harsher. Additional option, the New Game+ mode generates the world for you automatically using the same size parameters (saved on the save file) and randomly picks your landing location (for more interesting difficulty ;b)

I think the plot rational for this can be that your ship contains an AI core and that in this world AI cores always inevitably go rogue and try to terminate the humans onboard by causing a self destruct sequence. The humans never catch onto this and think that it was a mechanical problem or software glitch each time that causes them to need to evacuate the ship ;b Maybe in this universe AI always goes evil inevitably if given enough resources and time ;b

I know that this kind of scaling difficulty and continuation sequence would keep me playing the game over and over. People could even brag on how many play throughs they survived, this could be a thing, think about it ;b

Dat necro ^

Sid Meiers had a bit of trouble with the end game in his early releases of Civilization.  Getting a spaceship built and launching it to Alpha Centauri was very anti-climactic. His Civilization 5 is interesting in that you can decide which of several victory conditions you satisfy.

YEEEEAAA SURE IS GETTIN NECRO UP IN HERE