The value of "Mystery"

[Tyrion4444]

I feel like Rimworld has lost a key component in its last few updates - the hard to grasp, but very strong value of "lack of information", or "mystery".

I DON'T want to know how the planet looks. I don't want to know where are the tribes located. I don't want to know where the roads, mountains, all the things are.

If you are not convinced, look at the recent Alien movies. We all want to know, where did this creature come from, who made it, the whole history.
We do.
But - what we want DOESN'T MATTER. Too much information ruins all the wondering, all the stuff our imagination creates when we are in the dark.
Specificity, clarity is BORING. It carries no tension!

Rimworld has lost a lot of its mystery with all this (imho) unnecessary information. It worked way better as a "single screen" game.

The planet, the actual "Rimworld" feels now way LESS threatening a place, than it used to. Now I know almost everything about it - its just another random planet.
I know, it was exactly the same before. BUT - I didn't know that for sure...

Does it have cities somewhere? I didn't know. Is it all habitable? I didn't know. Are there a lot of races/tribes/aliens? Is it 90% water? Does it have a wierd shape? Is it gigantic or tiny? What is lurking outside of my game screen, outside of my initial map? I didn't know... But now, unfortunatelly, I do know. And I hate it. I hate this new "more info is better" direction Rimworld is heading into.

It is deceptive, I understand. It feels like the more stuff you add, the better the game will be.

But games are like carefully cooked meals. Just because you are adding ingredients does not mean, that you are making it taste better.

[Mkok]

Well, we used to have the world map even before that :-)

But I kinda did like the game better before caravans were added. But that might be cause they seem kinda half-baked to me right now. But hey, if they werent added we would still be screaming we want them 

[A Friend]

The huge amount of possibilities that the World and Caravan system has opened up far outweighs the value of "Mystery".
Besides, it's still being worked on. A discovery feature might get included in the future that expands on the exploration aspect of the game.

Alternatively, you could just not look at the map and ignore the caravan feature entirely.

[Wizzy]

I disagree completely! I personally enjoy the world system and although i dont use the caravan system yet i have not doubt it will be a great asset once it has been fleshed out.

But that is just my opinion as what you have posted is yours.

"But games are like carefully cooked meals. Just because you are adding ingredients does not mean, that you are making it taste better."

^ fair comment however as far as im concerned everything in the game so far has been added with purpose and has enhanced the game.

[Gohihioh]

I would disagree too.
I don't think I find reasoning for Rimworld to have hidden map.
I don't think that Rimworld has anything and shouldn't have anything to do with mystery ala alien movies.
I don't think it would bring any good to gameplay and I don't think trying to implement that kind of thing would add to the Rimworld atmposhere.
I don't use caravans that often too(I would like to, but they need more work because right now it's mostly frustration) and I really enjoy the world map. I would love to use it more, I feel limited with being pretty much forced to play 'single screen'.

[SubZeroBricks]

I feel like Rimworld has lost a key component in its last few updates - the hard to grasp, but very strong value of "lack of information", or "mystery".

Perhaps the solution to your problem is playing a previous alpha. I'd recommend alpha 6.

[DaviBones]

I think a "fog of war" type mechanic would be a cool addition. You would start with just a 1-2 tile radius of revealed territory around your colony, and you can get information about nearby locations from visitors and caravans of other factions. You also reveal territory when sending out caravans. Roads would allow for quick travel and mapping.

I am surprised people don't like caravans, I think they are great fun in a17. You can often hit 2-3 quests in one caravan and visit a settlement while you're out if you stock up enough pemmican. You also have to be sure to have a solid fighting squad with a good doctor, and a construction specialist in case you need to set up camp for a day while someone heals... much more realistic when you have 6+ colonists. I have had a lot of success with caravans since I realized I needed to be very careful with who I was sending out.

[carbon]

I think a "fog of war" type mechanic would be a cool addition. You would start with just a 1-2 tile radius of revealed territory around your colony...

Even though I'm against fog-of-war on the base map, having it the world map does sound like a fun idea and not too onerous to implement.

I would support this being made a formal suggestion (on the appropriate subforum), assuming someone else hasn't brought up something similar already.

EDIT: I should qualify this post by saying that any implementation of world map fogging should be done as an opt-in selection at the time of world generation. Not an always-on feature.

[Limdood]

i disagree strongly with the OP.

I don't want a fog of war
I don't want to have to discover factions
I don't want to NOT be notified of events

I want to be able to craft an interesting story and play an interesting game.  I need information to do that.  Removal of information (addition of mystery...same thing according to the OP) removes meaningful choice.  I need to have information regarding a certain situation AT or BEFORE the moment i make the meaningful choice regarding it, not after.  Would i have rounded that outcropping to engage anyways? risking a 1 shot death?  maybe.  But i never got to make that decision.

If i walk around a rock outcropping and am killed by an offscreen sniper that i could never have known about, I lost my ability to make a meaningful choice, which is a less interactive, less engaging game.

If i land on the planet and end up in a ring of impassable mountains I could not see from picking my landing site and now i can't caravan anywhere, then again, my chance to make a meaningful decision was taken from me by only giving me the information when it was too late to do anything about it.  Would i have chosen that site?  maybe, but now i get no say in it.

If i'm hunted by a predator and am only notified when my bow-equipped pawn is actually melee-attacked by a bear, then the notification came too late for me to save the colonist and the game misses out on another opportunity to provide me with the information to make a meaningful decision.  Could i have saved the colonist by outrunning the bear, moving others to help, or both?  Maybe not, but i'll never know because I wasn't told until it was too late.

All of those are examples of "mystery" or lack of information.  All of those would (or do) fundamentally diminish Rimworld as a GAME.  Information = choice.  MEANINGFUL choice = good gameplay.

[Hans Lemurson]

Everybody loves mystery! (18s to 32s)
https://youtu.be/8kmu3tkvPiA?t=18s

[Sola]

I'm just gonna leave this here~

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7R6_Chr2vro

[dStreamline]

This concept of "mystery" is like the cocaine of plot design.

Used sparingly, and only with an express purpose in mind, does it actually become useful. Otherwise, it is much more of a cop-out for lazy writers, or in this case video game designers.

Tynan seems to be going in a good direction with Rimworld, expanding it in places where it would naturally want to go. Simply because there is more that can be seen doesn't mean that there is less mystery in the world, or the Rimworld universe in general.

There is still the question of the mechanoid origins, the ancient ruins, and the fact that some colonists may be hundreds or even THOUSANDS of years old (bringing into question how and why they ended up in the ancient ruins in the first place), as well as the nature of the precursor civilizations mentioned in-game. In short, the new world update has cast aside SOME mysteries (how could it not), and has added just the right blend of adventure and choice to an already fantastic experience. 

I couldn't disagree more with this comment...

[Bozobub]

Ehhh...  "Mystery."  *ptui*

Whatever.  If you ignore caravans, RimWorld plays largely the same as it has for a long time, barring constant balance changes, of course.  There hasn't been all that much "mystery" to the game since what, the 3rd game you played, right?  Admit it =) .

As mentioned above, "mystery", like any mechanic, is useful only when used sparingly.  Over-reliance = crutch, that simple; bad pulp (science/fantasy) fiction is riddled with "mystery".

This is the EXACT type of thing that should be in a mod.

[Tyrion4444]

Well... as all filmmakers know - you shouldn't ask your audiences what they want.



Consumers are good at consuming, but regarding desing, it is best left to the actual artists, who know how to guide and manipulate their audiences emotions. And thats what entertainment is all about...

I still think mystery would make the enjoyment of the game MUCH better, so I caution Tynan against listening to the voice of democracy. It kills all art

[Trylobyte]

Well... as all filmmakers know - you shouldn't ask your audiences what they want.



Consumers are good at consuming, but regarding desing, it is best left to the actual artists, who know how to guide and manipulate their audiences emotions. And thats what entertainment is all about...

I still think mystery would make the enjoyment of the game MUCH better, so I caution Tynan against listening to the voice of democracy. It kills all art

I don't mean to be that guy, but you've crossed the line between 'making a suggestion' and 'telling us what we want.'  The former is fine, the latter will tick people off.  If you want to let the artist make their art, then let Tynan design his game, eh?  It's fine to make suggestions (we have a whole forum for it!) but don't imply that you know what people like more than the people themselves.  Iknow how online games and their communities can get, hell, I used to play League of Legends, but I also don't think RimWorld is big enough to have reached the point where community feedback is so diluted as to be meaningless.

If he likes mystery and thinks it adds something he'll add it, if he'd rather give people information then that's what he'll do.  Personally I'm on the side that having more information lets me write a better story (or at least a story that's in the genre I like) and reduces the chance of 'cheap shots' and foreseeable disasters causing the premature end of a colony.  It's what the storytellers are there for too, to help you write the tale you want.