Colonists choose obviously sub-optimal food

[ARoamingShadow]

The colonists in my games have been eating basically the closest food source, regardless of what it is, save for corpses. They DO eat corpses if there is nothing else to eat, so that is alright, but if their path to the prepared food storage crosses paths with a harvested piece of meat/harvested crop, they tend to pick up whatever they run into first.

I tested it a bit and a thing I noticed that was especially strange about this is that if there IS prepared food around, but they eat raw food, they don't appear to get the mood debuff for eating raw food.

I included some pictures, in which some of my colonists are seen specifically going for the raw veggies when there are simple meals in the same storage room. In the last one, you can also see that one of them -did- prefer the pemmican that a raider dropped very near to them, but then it was also the closest food source to where they were as far as I can tell.

It should also be noted that the present save I am running is the default tribal scenario, and I am not using any mods.

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[Jey123456]

its a bug thats been known for a little while and is fixed in the community core library (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16599.0)

I fully expect it will be fixed in the next version of rimworld, but for now at least you have a fix available.

[1000101]

its a bug thats been known for a little while and is fixed in the community core library (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16599.0)

I fully expect it will be fixed in the next version of rimworld, but for now at least you have a fix available.

"For a little while?"  Known since day one, fixed in CCL on day one, released a bug fix on day two.

[Jey123456]

i suppose it depend on what you consider a long time or day one. The fix was commited to CCL 9 days ago, if you refer to day one of steam launch then yes i suppose, but its hardly since day one of alpha xD.

see commit id: fb0502fb680724fd39f226106d5802b09f577e89

to me, 9 days is a little while.

[1000101]

Well, this alpha only came out a little while ago, I'll grant you that. 

[Tynan]

I've been unable to repro this, though I've heard it reported a few times.

Can anyone post a save where it's actually in the process of happening?

Thanks.

[Havan_IronOak]

I've been unable to repro this, though I've heard it reported a few times.

Can anyone post a save where it's actually in the process of happening?

Thanks.

Not a save per second but proof that it's happening can be seen in Quill18s you tube let's play.

If it would be helpful, let me know and I'll go back and find the episode and the timestamp

[Kagemusha12]

In my case it is always a single coolonist who prefers raw meat over cooked meals..
He is called Jupiter, is a day one colonist and has the "Ascetic" trait ... maybe that has something to do with it?

All other of my colonists, while sometimes eating raw berries, will almost always prefer to eat cooked meals. They also will never ever eat raw meat if cooked meals are available.

[Tynan]

That's what I'm wondering.

Is there actually a bug, or are people just not understanding that ascetic colonists don't mind raw food?

[Calahan]

I have done some testing on this and have hopefully provided a method and save file that reproduces the oddities (or bugs) that players have been experiencing (Edit - And something that seems a major anomaly, or at least something I have no logical explanation for. Edit 2 - I should say that I have also been observing Pawns regularly having food preferences that from a player's perspective, I would consider to be wrong, or at best illogical).

The test involved 5 Pawns who had the Hungry moodlet. 2 of them had the Ascetic trait, 1 of them had the Cannibal trait, and 2 of them had no food preference traits (unless Green Thumb, Nudist, Chemical Fascination, or Slothful cause food preferences). The 5 Pawns had the following traits:-

Feeb - Chemical Fascination, Slothful
Christian - Green Thumb, Nudist
Bobe - Ascetic, Brawler, Slothful
Brows - Ascetic, Psychically sensitive
Jono - Fast Walker, Cannibal, Trigger-happy

These 5 Pawns were all Drafted, and positioned as such that they had a choice between food types. In some tests there was an equal distance between the choices (ie. adjacent), in other tests one of the food types was closer (ie. they were standing on it). The specifics of this are mentioned in the test description. All the flooring was wooden tiles. I have not (yet) tested to see if journey time as opposed to just physical distance makes a difference. The test was started by un-drafting all the Pawns simultaneously, and observing which food type they chose.

Please note that the Meals in this test were created via the scenario tool, and as such did not contain any specific ingredients (I can re-test with manufactured meals if required). Also please note that my comments are based on the results I expected to see as a player, and based on my understanding of the game and the influence of traits regarding food preferences. They are not based from examining the game code or anything like that.


Test #1 - Simple Meal vs Corn

When adjacent = Simple 1 - Corn 4
When standing on Simple = Simple 5 - Corn 0
When standing on Corn = Simple 0 - Corn 5

In this test it appears that when there was a closest option, the closest option was always chosen. When the distance was equal, it appears more Pawns chose Corn than was to be expected. If the Ascetic trait does cause Pawns to prefer raw food, then that only explains why 2 Pawns chose Corn. FYI - Feeb was the Pawn who chose the Simple Meal (no idea why). As a player, this result is hard to understand on several levels (eg. why did 2 of the non-Ascetic Pawns choose Corn?).

Test #2 - Simple Meal vs Potatoes

When adjacent = Simple 3 - Potatoes 2
When standing on Simple = Simple 5 - Potatoes 0
When standing on Potatoes = Simple 3 - Potatoes 2
When adjacent to Simple, and 1 tile gap to Potatoes = Simple 5 - Potatoes 0

The 2 Pawns who chose Potatoes were the two Ascetics, Bobe and Brows, which matches my understanding of the Ascetic trait. But they did not choose Potatoes when the Simple Meal was the closest choice. I theorised that this might be caused by them standing on the Simple Meals, so I relocated the stockpiles slightly so they Pawns were standing adjacent to the Simple Meals and 1 tile away from the Potatoes, and retested. But the same results occurred. If the Ascetic trait does cause Pawns to prefer raw food (vegetables) then as a player I would not expect a 1 tile difference in distance to override that preference.

Test #3 - Simple Meals vs Beef

I conducted the same 4 tests as I did in Test #2, but substituting Beef for Potatoes. I observed the exact same results as in Test #2.

Test #4 - Corn vs Potatoes

When adjacent = Corn 5 - Potatoes 0
When standing on Corn = Corn 5 - Potatoes 0
When standing on Potatoes = Corn 3 - Potatoes 2

These results made sense to me as a player (so I saw no need to conduct the 4th test). The 3 non-Ascetic Pawns always chose the Corn because that does not produce the negative "Ate raw food" moodlet, and the Ascetic Pawns always chose the closest food because it made no difference.


Choices involving Human Meat seem to be working as expected (again please note I did not test meals made in part of wholly from Human Meat)

Test #5 - Fine Meals vs Human Meat

When adjacent = Fine 4 - Human Meat 1
When standing on Fine = Fine 4 - Human Meat 1
When standing on Human Meat = Fine 4 - Human Meat 1

Test #6 - Pemmican vs Human Meat

When adjacent = Pemmican 4 - Human Meat 1
When standing on Pemmican = Pemmican 4 - Human Meat 1
When standing on Human Meat = Pemmican 4 - Human Meat 1

In both tests only the Cannibal chose the Human Meat. Please note the Pawns were only "Hungry". I did not test for when Pawns are starving.


Test #7 - Fine Meals vs Simple Meals

When adjacent = Fine 5 - Simple 0
When standing on Fine = Fine 5 - Simple 0
When standing on Simple = Fine 3 - Simple 2

Only one of these results make sense as a player, as why the 2 Ascetic Pawns chose Fine Meals instead of Simple makes no sense (Edit - The Ascetic Pawns did not receive the positive "Ate fine meal" moodlet, so that might explain their choices).

I had originally intended to continue testing at this point (including testing multiple choices), and was in the process of reconfiguring the stockpiles for the 4th test for Test #7. But I was forced to stop because I ran across an anomaly that makes so little sense I was left with no choice but to wait for input/explanation from a higher power. The anomaly was as follows...

If the setup involving the 2 Ascetic Pawns is like this...

F = Fine Meal
S = Simple Meal
P = Pawn (with Ascetic trait)

FF
PP
SS

Then the Pawns will choose the Fine Meals. But if the setup is like this...

SPF
SPF

..then they will choose the Simple Meals?!?!?

I have no explanation for this, since the distances involved are the same, and the only difference is the relative orientation of the meals in relation to the Pawns. But as such, I think any further testing on my part might be meaningless because there seems to be other factors involved that can not easily be explained (or at east not by me). I also have no idea how accurate or valuable Tests #1-6 are because all the choices were based on North-South orientation, and at the moment I haven't got the heart or motivation to test for East-West or other such orientation (if I do find the motivation then I will obviously update accordingly).

I know there is a tile preference order and orientation preference when it comes to Pawns and things like working on job, dropping items when Drafting etc, and it runs S, W, E, N, SW, NW, NE, SE, and this can affect which stockpile of materials a Pawn chooses (when looking for materials). But I did not think this affected something like food choices when the choice were not equal. Besides which, the results from Test #7 don't match the tile preference anyway, as if it did then the Ascetic Pawns would have chosen the Simple Meals because they were orientated to the South of the Pawns (the Fine Meals were to the North). (Edit - Unless there is a different orientation preference for choosing meals? But from my playing experience I have only ever observed one orientation preference that seems to apply to all aspects).

My head hurts now so.... the download link includes two save games. One of them is at the start of the test with neatly placed stockpiles (to show my workings and in case anyone else wants to run some tests). The other is a save game that demonstrates the anomaly (I have attached a screenshot corresponding to the anomaly save game).

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/97382000/Food%20Choice%20Test.rar

Re: Screenshot - This is taken from the Anomaly save game. If you load the save and un-Draft the 2 Ascetic Pawns to the North, then they will both choose the Simple Meals to the West of them. But if you move them to the two obvious spots in between the other Pawns, and then un-Draft them, they will choose the Fine Meals to their North. Any explanation for this would be appreciated.


Thank you for your time in reading this. If any further testing is required, then please let me know (by which time I will hopefully have regained some motivation).

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[faceclams]

Raw food is less efficient than making them into meals nutrition wise though, so I'd still rather they weigh meals over raw food, especially when the raw food merely doesn't give a mood penalty. If the raw food gave an extra mood bonus (like human meat with cannibals) then I'd understand the pawns seeking them out, but I just want them to trust that I'll get the corn lying outside hauled in and cooked eventually. I have a perfectly working food system going on but the colonists seem to have no faith in me

[Andy_Dandy]

It's not only ascetics that prefer raw food in the current versions, all kind of colonists seem to og for raw food if it's closer, especially corn and berries but often also raw meat and potetoes. They also prefer to eat the corn out of the food dispensers, and some times even meat, instead of eating the dispenser meals.

[Havan_IronOak]

Great testing Callahan! If you DO decide to go further with documenting this is there a way to test with meals containing insect meat? I understand that there's a mood debuted with that as well.

[DariusWolfe]

Raw food is less efficient than making them into meals nutrition wise though, so I'd still rather they weigh meals over raw food, especially when the raw food merely doesn't give a mood penalty.

This right here.

I've not experienced a lot of problems with colonists eating raw food when there were prepared meals available, but I can definitely understand the frustration, since food is often so scarce in the early game, and meat can get harder to find mid-game (esp. if there's some disaster or other that kills off a lot of animals). You want to make the most effective use of your food possible.

[BlackSmokeDMax]

Raw food is less efficient than making them into meals nutrition wise though, so I'd still rather they weigh meals over raw food, especially when the raw food merely doesn't give a mood penalty.

This right here.

I've not experienced a lot of problems with colonists eating raw food when there were prepared meals available, but I can definitely understand the frustration, since food is often so scarce in the early game, and meat can get harder to find mid-game (esp. if there's some disaster or other that kills off a lot of animals). You want to make the most effective use of your food possible.

I do agree with this. To possibly keep the Ascetic trait in the mix, possibly give a negative moodlet if the pawn eats a fine meal or higher. Or if the choice is between Fine meals or higher and raw food, then fine eat the raw food. That will be our fault for not having some simple meals available.