Is there any way to prevent pawns from eating food in their inventory, or a way to increase the maximum distance they have to be from a table to do so? I'm getting lots of negative thoughts from them just stopping whatever they're doing (or waking up), plopping down on the ground and eating their meal rather than go the 20 or 25 tiles to the table and chairs.
No way for the end user AFAIK. Tynan increased it during testing already. You can try providing more tables and chairs closer or inside bedrooms. Personally I don't think they should eat their inventory meal while inside the home zone, or if they do, they should look further for a table. This feature seems to me that it was primarily for colonists when they're out on assignment away from the home zone.
They eat the meal they are carrying when the are hungry. If there is a table close, they will use it, otherwise they eat it off the ground. A negative 4, which is very easy to overcome, with space, comfort, beauty. This does make them more productive, as they don't have to walk to the food storage, pick up a meal, go to the table, eat, then resume work...
20 to 25 cells is a long distance when they are hungry.
Yeah pretty much - as long as they can't eat the meal until the neg for being hungry is higher then -4 then it's still a instant mood gain. If someone was still on the verge of breaking you could then manually tell them to go eat that chocolate by the chair and table.
Couldn't you just 'people live here' up ya base by spreading around some tables and chairs, so ya pawns didn't have to eat their lunch of human meat and potatoes squatting in the hallway?
If there was a way to add small tables to their rooms, it wouldn't be so bad. I know there's mods out there that allow you to create module tables, but I hope there's a way to tweak this a bit. I like the idea of them going to eat at the closest table if they are in the home zone.
u can always make a small fridge that contains only the meals u have, and next to it u make a table, u can put this in the lounge or how u call their free time room. u can make the stockpile critical so that they fill it up, instead of leaving it in the main fridge, or u can just remove the meals from the main fridge all together.
that won't change the fact that the colonists now carry a meal with them, and stop to eat it when they get hungry, where ever they are. A great addition, as they no longer spend time walking back to get a meal, eat, the walk back to work. You will see a -4 for eating off the ground, but that is better than a -8 for hungry.
so u mean they r caring a meal all the time on them? i didn't see that happening so far
Yeah, it makes sense for them to eat when it's necessary, but for me I kinda like that everyone would wake up, go eat their meals together, and get their days going. A simple aesthetic thing, I'm sure I'll get used to it.
Quote from: Angiel on June 14, 2015, 05:17:12 PM
so u mean they r caring a meal all the time on them? i didn't see that happening so far
yes when there are meals available, they will pick one up and put it in their inventory, and then eat it later, when hungry... instead of having to walk back to base to get a meal.
Quote from: TLHeart on June 14, 2015, 08:54:42 AM
that won't change the fact that the colonists now carry a meal with them, and stop to eat it when they get hungry, where ever they are. A great addition, as they no longer spend time walking back to get a meal, eat, the walk back to work. You will see a -4 for eating off the ground, but that is better than a -8 for hungry.
A great addition for you maybe, but not for everyone, not everyone thinks the same way you do. I have no problem with the minuscule amount of productivity you lose, I do care about useless preventable negative mood benefits.
Quote from: TLHeart on June 13, 2015, 03:53:57 PM
My base is very efficient. and it is my base. I don't want to play your base. That is what makes rimworld a great game, different options for different people.
You literally said it yourself, different options for different people. All Tynan would have to do is add a slider for how far pawns look for tables. Changeable distance for table searching, and distance based sliders already exist in the game, surely it couldn't be too hard to implement. This way everyone's happy, we can all do it our own way
I don't find a 2 hour walk by my hunter a miniscule amount of time lost... or an hour walk by my miners... just to eat, and have a -8 for being hungry while making that walk.
Yes we have a radius restriction to get supplies for a production table....
A radius for eating that is set by the player for finding a table to eat at, would be an option. But also would not be as easy to code as the table radius were.
I would like to understand why you feel a -4 for a short period of time is a bad thing? And why is it useless?
Quote from: TLHeart on June 14, 2015, 10:24:41 PM
I don't find a 2 hour walk by my hunter a miniscule amount of time lost... or an hour walk by my miners... just to eat, and have a -8 for being hungry while making that walk.
Yes we have a radius restriction to get supplies for a production table....
A radius for eating that is set by the player for finding a table to eat at, would be an option. But also would not be as easy to code as the table radius were.
I would like to understand why you feel a -4 for a short period of time is a bad thing? And why is it useless?
And I don't ever have hunters out that need to take the walk, and only very very rarely have miners out far enough for it to be more then a 10 minute walk. Just like I (technically you) said, different people different play-styles. In this case though, Tynan implemented something that benefits some play-styles (yours) and hinders others (mine, and in this thread at least, the majority). Why should we have to suffer (negligible suffering, but still suffering) a mood bonus because of a new feature that helps other people only? And its not even like sappers, some people (not me) dont like sappers because they hinder their playstyles, but all they have to do is alter their styles, not change completely. We get a -4 punishment unless we completely change.
If radius isn't as easy as it seems to me (I'll wait for Tynan's answer on that, if he gives one) than at least give us the option to not let them pack meals. I had a full play through and needed the meal inventory slot once, one time the whole play though, because that's the way I play, while I got the -4 at least 10 times, if not more
Quote from: puddlejumper448 on June 14, 2015, 10:40:04 PM
And I don't ever have hunters out that need to take the walk, and only very very rarely have miners out far enough for it to be more then a 10 minute walk. Just like I (technically you) said, different people different play-styles. In this case though, Tynan implemented something that benefits some play-styles (yours) and hinders others (mine, and in this thread at least, the majority). Why should we have to suffer (negligible suffering, but still suffering) a mood bonus because of a new feature that helps other people only? And its not even like sappers, some people (not me) dont like sappers because they hinder their playstyles, but all they have to do is alter their styles, not change completely. We get a -4 punishment unless we completely change.
If radius isn't as easy as it seems to me (I'll wait for Tynan's answer on that, if he gives one) than at least give us the option to not let them pack meals. I had a full play through and needed the meal inventory slot once, one time the whole play though, because that's the way I play, while I got the -4 at least 10 times, if not more
As you just said, you have the choice to modify your play style, only slightly, as you expect those who don't like the sappers to do. It is no more of a change than you expect those who hate the sappers to do.
So a -4 for eating actually affects your colonists mood? That is just one very small part of the mood calculation. Or is it you just don't like seeing negative numbers?
Quote from: TLHeart on June 14, 2015, 10:48:43 PM
As you just said, you have the choice to modify your play style, only slightly, as you expect those who don't like the sappers to do. It is no more of a change than you expect those who hate the sappers to do.
So a -4 for eating actually affects your colonists mood? That is just one very small part of the mood calculation. Or is it you just don't like seeing negative numbers?
I would absolutely love for you to give me some ideas on how I can slightly modify my play-style to solve this. Should I put 5+ tables around my base so they will eat at one, not only wasting plenty of resources (4 extra tables and chairs at each one being 80 per set up, or 320 wasted resources) and also lose my bonuses when my colonists decide to relax socially at different tables, still punishing us just to make it a little more convenient for you. Thats the only way I can see, no thanks.
Does -4 affect my colony? not really. Can it affect
Any colony after a raid or during a psychic wave, yes, it very well could be the difference maker in those events.
You're not thinking about this logically. This doesn't negatively affect your game except in very specific circumstances.
Mood states are -very nearly- binary meaning that your colonists are either breaking down (0% productivity) or they're not (Very nearly 100% productivity).
Negative mood modifiers have almost no impact on a pawn unless it directly causes them to break down. The % based workspeed modifiers for very low or high moods are tiny.
Because being hungry is a -8 and eating every day is mandatory it's trivial to assume that eating on the floor immediately and suffering the -4 penalty (which in reality is +4 given the circumstances) is a significant improvement in colonist efficiency.
Walking to a table that is outside a colonist's search area involves a significant portion of time that they could spend doing literally anything else. You have to compare the time spent walking to the efficiency lost due to the tiny mood modifier. It's a non-contest.
For comparison think about comparing your meals being eaten off the ground to NPD meals which are also -4. Colonists won't carry NPD'd meals so they're forced to go back to it and use it every time they need to eat.However this means they'll always eat at a table and chair (Unless your base layout is asinine).
The result is the same -4 mood modifier (For much longer actually - NPD meal's penalty lasts 2x as long as eating off the ground) but you've lost a crapload of time every day because they had to walk back to the NPD to eat.
There's an argument to be made about the quality of the environment that you're forcing your colonists to eat in but most environmental modifiers are incredibly short-lived, their duration is entirely the speed at which it takes a colonist's mood to degrade.
I really don't rate it - especially since as I've already covered the effects of both high and low mood on work efficiency are tiny.
There are really only breakpoints that're worth paying attention to and the level of colony fragility required for eating off the ground to cause a chain reaction breaking everything in a high stress situation is comical.
You're not suffering as a result of this change at all.
Really though I doubt I'll change your mind, you're taking the stance that you're being persecuted for something aimed at other people, might as well convince a wall to fall over.
puddlejumper,
what bonus do you loose when colonist relax socially at a table by themselves? They get the mood bonus for relaxing socially, regardless of anyone else being around... Maybe you are talking about the social chat bonus, of +1, if they happen to actually chat with another person.
I get it you don't like the -4... and if a -4 is the difference between you surviving, or dying, I feel very sorry for your colonists. Especially since they get a -8 for being hungry. And you admit it really does not affect your colony, so it comes down to you just don't like seeing the negative number, and it really does not affect your colony in one way or another....
I think its more of a little OCD issue. I myself do prefer to see that my colonists have no negative mood buffs at all, even if they are extremely happy due to other positive mood buffs.
But having them package meals to go and eat whilst they are out working outside and thereby gain the negative buff for eating off the ground is a small price to pay to ensure that they are more efficient.
Perhaps, what one can do is that in addition to the 3 types of meals we can cook currently. Maybe a fourth option such as a lunch box meal can be made which is strictly for colonists to carry on them (like the Japanese Bento boxes). And eating these won't cause them to gain a negative mood buff.
Quote from: _alphaBeta_ on June 13, 2015, 08:52:16 AM
I don't think they should eat their inventory meal while inside the home zone
That's a good idea.
Here's Boboid posting a big long reply to me that has nothing to do with my point, then calls me a wall because he misunderstood my (mostly) clearly written argument. lol
Quote from: TLHeart on June 14, 2015, 11:35:17 PM
puddlejumper,
what bonus do you loose when colonist relax socially at a table by themselves? They get the mood bonus for relaxing socially, regardless of anyone else being around... Maybe you are talking about the social chat bonus, of +1, if they happen to actually chat with another person.
I get it you don't like the -4... and if a -4 is the difference between you surviving, or dying, I feel very sorry for your colonists. Especially since they get a -8 for being hungry. And you admit it really does not affect your colony, so it comes down to you just don't like seeing the negative number, and it really does not affect your colony in one way or another....
I admit we got a little off topic there, but this is what I'm trying to say here TL, because you do have some good points. Tynan implemented this feature, and its a good feature I agree, but it's a feature that doesn't bring my play style, and clearly at least a couple of other peoples, any benefit. So this feature helps probably 80% of players and hinders the other 20%. If he were to add a simple little checkbox that makes it so the selected colonist doesn't pack a meal and eats like they use to. This little check box won't affect you at all. This little check box will make a feature that currently helps 80% of people will now help 100% of people. Why not put it in? There is literally
no downside to it, but you guys are arguing against it. please tell me why he should't do that, I took 1 semester of coding in high school 7 years or so ago and i could almost completely code this, it couldn't take him more than 30 minutes. if not a check box than the home zone idea qouted above would even be good enough
Puddle,
I agreed that a player set radius would be an option to satisfy both. Now you have come up with another option, a check box to not pack a meal, also an option, or as was suggested, they don't use the packed meal in the home zone, which I disagree with, since my home zones do get large.
All OPTIONS, not get rid of this because I have to change my play style, which you want the people who hate sappers to do.
Discussions bring out ideas and solutions.
Quote from: TLHeart on June 15, 2015, 12:25:36 AM
Puddle,
I agreed that a player set radius would be an option to satisfy both. Now you have come up with another option, a check box to not pack a meal, also an option, or as was suggested, they don't use the packed meal in the home zone.
All OPTIONS, not get rid of this because I have to change my play style, which you want the people who hate sappers to do.
Discussions bring out ideas and solutions.
Yeah I never said or meant to imply get rid of it completely, and if I did it it was just a mistype, sorry for any confusion
Also to Tynan, if they pack meals, you should make them eat their packed meal at the closest table if they are in the home zone instead of not eating their packed meal while they are in the home zone, else their inventory meal would spoil if they didnt eat outside of it ever :P
QuoteIf he were to add a simple little checkbox that makes it so the selected colonist doesn't pack a meal and eats like they use to. This little check box won't affect you at all. This little check box will make a feature that currently helps 80% of people will now help 100% of people. Why not put it in?
Every checkbox has a cost. Not just in implementation (which is cheap) but in interface/training burden for players. It seems like a tiny cost, but the benefit here is tiny also. Go down that road and you quite quickly end up with dozens and dozens of tiny options for configuring every tiny little thing - and none of them really make stories or support meaningful decisions. There's just no meat on that feature; it's an "OCD pleaser" at best and the better way to handle that is to elegantly remove the initial cause of the OCD distress.
Trust me man. Lots of game designers are crushed under the weight of hundreds of "little checkboxes" that add up to nothing more than a maze of meaningless minutiae rules. This game is about story; if the player is doing something it should tie into a story.
Well let's break this down. What are we trying to solve here? I agree there's an issue. In my typical mountain base layouts the freezer and "kitchen table(s)" is/are on the way out of my base. I don't think colonists should be getting up in the morning and pulling out their inventory meal and consuming it on their bedroom floor. This is especially so when they need to walk past the table and additional meals to go outside. This doesn't make logical sense, and has negative impacts in-game. As a quick tangent, colonists tend to inventory a lesser quality meal for their inventory if given a choice. Management of meals is a slightly different discussion, but my point here is that the player can still control via forbidding/unforbidding which meals their colonists consume. The meal they chose to stock the night before may not be the best meal for the next day, especially if the colony has fallen on hard times and you need the mood boost from a better meal. Not only do you miss the bonus the next morning but you also are hit with the "ate on the floor" debuff, and sometimes that does matter.
As I said earlier, I believe this feature is to avoid colonists from starving "on the other side of the map." I believe this is supported by the fact that colonists take lesser quality meals with them. This all implies to me that the "inventory meal" is meant to sustain life, and in that context I'd agree that the "ate of floor" debuff is negligible. In other contexts, this feature does more harm than good for me.
Also as I said earlier, I believe restricting this behavior in the home zone would help the issue, or at least increasing the search radius in this case. Again, keep in mind what this feature was for. Let's work the problem with some examples to see where the current system is breaking down vs. where proposed solutions would break down. Setting the example, here is a screenshot of my last setup during testing. This should be more zoomed out, but it's all I had handy at the moment right now. This is a mountain base, the autodoor to the east goes outside. My problem is colonists eating in their bedrooms that are visible to the west. It's not that far to me. I worked around this in testing by putting another table and chairs immediately south of that block of bedrooms in the main room. I don't feel this should be necessary. I can post more later, but I would see no impact of colonists going back to this table in the common room if anywhere in my home zone, which includes a large outside portion of land as well. Seems to me most people IRL would do this rather than eating on the ground. Can anyone provide some counter examples for consideration and further discussion?
(http://s25.postimg.org/lxkwkconv/screenshot35.jpg) (http://s25.postimg.org/5mkso1c67/screenshot35.png)
maybe a bit ot, but yesterday i got to lough about it.
got this male colonist, Mai - he got hooked to beer, ending in drunkeness lying down the floor.
i clicked him to look up his mood, and he got the "eating from the ground" buff. remindes me of the hoff:
[spoiler]
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-pRVa3yKbfZg/UaYqmlUtXfI/AAAAAAAAEe4/a0wFn3R918k/s1600/thehoff.jpg)
[/spoiler]
;D