I Thought originally the Prison Architect assets where placeholders.. is that still the case?
Looking at a title like Judgement you can appreciate the difference scale / detail / animations make on the characters (the only good part in my opinion, the game otherwise doesn't look appealing, but the "colonists" are well animated and detailed at least).
When this game hits Steam a lot of people are going to post how it's ripped of from P.A... which is so far from the truth but at a glance yeah you can see why people would say "why am I paying for a PA mod?".
Just wondering if this game will have it's own unique look at some point. The simplified icon art is OK but it would be pretty mind blowing with a gritty sci-fi look and realistic graphics instead of the icon / simplified look.. imho.. many will disagree with me here and I respect that.
I wouldn't mind improved graphics and animations, but i can say i played P.A. and i just couldn't get into it.
This on the other hand, i simply cant stop playing.
I'll take this smooth gameplay over what's considered 'good graphics' any day. Besides, the graphics just kinda work. Not too much, not too little.
Eh. The graphics are original, Rimworld has it's own artists, although yeah they look similar to PA. And it's true some people say the PA and Rimworld copycat thing, although the only real similar aspects is really the building method. The colonists look entirely different, gameplay is a world away, prisons are very limited in Rimworld compared to PA.
I have zero issue with the graphics as they are. In fact, I'd prefer they stay as they are. They are a part of the charm of the game. As for them being similar to prison architect, I never once even thought of that until you brought it up. And on that not, it wouldn't be the first time that games share graphical similarities. Terraria and Starbound, for example. Graphically, they look similar. But the similarities end there. The two games are entirely different and that is what will make RimWorld stand on its own, just as it already does.
The gfx will hold people back from playing this game. It held me back until I saw a video and could make any sense of what I was looking at. I didn't have that same problem with prison architect, its images are easier to determine what you are looking at. Rimworld is a lot more complex than Prison Architect and has "items" and "structures" which aren't immediately obvious from the graphics. You look at PA and realize its a prison, it even has text which gives you an idea of what each room is. I look at the "Shower" text and then these weird circle graphics that look nothing like showers and think "oh thats a shower, ok".
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NHVUEtyp2zY/maxresdefault.jpg)
People will look at screenshots like this below and wonder what they are looking at, there are no great visual clues and aren't that many things which are obvious. The graphics look better than PA above, but it doesn't actually change the issue that if you don't mind "indie 2d graphics" you just don't know what most of it is you are looking at. Which is the problem, imo. They just need to concentrate on videos for the marketing, or maybe add a bit of text to the rooms (optional) for screenshots so people can understand it better. Some graphics tweaks would certainly help, for people who know the game we don't have a problem looking at the image below and knowing what everything is, but people who have never touched the game will have little idea and that will hurt conversions.
(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/27/26025/rimworld-ref-screen2.jpg)
And an example which will probably help people here understand better. Look at dwarf fortress below, there are people who can look at this and it makes as much sense as the Rimworld graphics do to us. But you are wondering "what is that?" right? "What am I looking at exactly?" Does it make you want to play Dwarf Fortress? If you don't care about graphics then you would likely be playing Dwarf Fortress as it has probably the most options and "gameplay" of any game ever created.
(http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/thatdude-df-aboveground-640x385.png)
Quote from: hoochy on April 19, 2016, 01:14:04 AM
The gfx will hold people back from playing this game.
Then why you're playing an outdated alpha ? It looks different in up-to-date version.
You know, it's funny, because I can pull DOZENS of screencaps of games I know nothing about and look at them and I'll get the exact same " thought" of "wtf am I looking at?" From Commodore 64 games to Star Citizen. A screencap will tell you NOTHING about a game, no matter how "informative" it is if you know nothing baout the game. Do you know how this is resolved? Research. Talking to people. Watching people play. Playing the game.
If the graphics were going to hold this game back, how is there so many people playing it already?
Quote from: Silvador on April 19, 2016, 02:24:05 AM
You know, it's funny, because I can pull DOZENS of screencaps of games I know nothing about and look at them and I'll get the exact same " thought" of "wtf am I looking at?" From Commodore 64 games to Star Citizen. A screencap will tell you NOTHING about a game, no matter how "informative" it is if you know nothing baout the game. Do you know how this is resolved? Research. Talking to people. Watching people play. Playing the game.
You know what a Commodore 64 is, which means you've been playing games with basic graphics and "WTFing" for a lot of your life already at screenshots. So you are not "the norm" and neither am I, yet I was put off this game for some months because even though I knew basically what the game was the screenshots and non informative videos I saw were not interesting enough and I couldn't really understand the actual gameplay.
Quote from: Silvador on April 19, 2016, 02:24:05 AMIf the graphics were going to hold this game back, how is there so many people playing it already?
I didn't mean holding it back from being successful, it already is very successful, just holding it back from being as successful as it could be. We all know the gameplay is great, but people who haven't played it don't, and to get people to play it they need to basically understand some aspects of the game, and know what they are going to get, right? The visuals help portray that to them. I'm never going to play Dwarf Fortress while it looks like something I would have found on a Commodore 64 BBS in 1985, no matter how good the game play is.
Actually, I only know what a Commodore 64 is because of the internet. My gaming experience goes back no further than a decade and a half. Compared to some, I'm still a noobie. But my point still remains.
And this game is still in alpha, it's still being developed. Near as I can tell, much of its renown comes from word of mouth. I didn't even know this game existed before a friend told me about it and shared the download link. From there I played the game, learned about it, and moved to support it. When it is finally released publicly, on Steam and in whatever other way, there will likely be a great deal more people to spread the word about it and that alone will make its sales explode on steam. Take a look at Minecraft and see how its renown grew. More than half of its player base was established long before it was even officially completed and released because of word of mouth. This game doesn't need screencaps to sell it. Being a great game to play and having great supports is what will see its success.
As for Dwarf Fortress, I've played it. And while the interface can seem a bit daunting at first, I still greatly enjoyed it and it was its complexity and learning curve that halted me from playing it... also because of other games like it that were similar and easier to learn. But that's not to say I won't return to Dwarf Fortress some day. And frankly, I think that if Dwarf Fortress did change its interface, it would cease to be the Dwarf Fortress that is known and loved by its players.
A game's appearance isn't what defines it or its success. You can play an ugly ass game and still love it. Just because people don't immediately know anything about what they are looking at doesn't mean they will turn away from it. A book's cover doesn't stop people from reading it, nor does a DVD cover stop a person from watching the movie. What stops people from being a part of a following is not knowing anything about that following and that which is being followed and pictures won't ever change that, no matter what it is.
There's a balance there though, DF is partially so deep because Toady has ignored UI/graphics. That allows him to put focus completely on gameplay. Obviously you could throw more money at it, and hire more artists/developers - but then you hit the next hurdle: if it costs more, it'll have to have more of that fabled 'mass market appeal' to make financial sense, which generally just means dumbing the game down. I don't think just adding better graphics alone is going to make much difference for the kind of people who aren't willing to spend an hour or two investigating how stuff works.
It's a path that could be taken, but personally I'm happy with the direction RimWorld has taken - and in the end I think this is as much a passion project for Tynan as anything else. If he wanted to develop big games, he could have stayed with his former employers (I vaguely recall him working on the Bioshock games? - he worked on AAA productions in any case).
Also, counterexample; every screenshot of Europa Universalis, Crusader Kings, Hearts of Iron, basically Paradox's entire catalogue will have you go into complete information overload. These games appeal because a growing niche of gamers loves the depth to these games, not so much because of their clear graphics or UI [/sarcasm]. Getting started with these games probably means days, if not weeks, of figuring out how stuff works - something that hasn't really changed all that much even with the graphics and UI improvements in the latest installments/DLC's.
As much as we want to think that looks don't matter, they really do. Rimworld doesn't need next-gen cutting edge graphics, but it definitely needs to move away from borrowing Prison Architect's style. There's no denying the two are exceedingly similar, and that can and will hurt future sales when exposed to the fickle Steam masses.
I don't mind the graphics but my GF never picked up RimWorld only because "it's ugly." And that although she finds the concept interesting.
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
Wow, that's really disappointing. When I bought the game, the idea was that these were placeholders. Specifically because of the following description on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tynansylvester/rimworld/description):
"It looks a lot like Prison Architect. What's up with that?
Blame my (Tynan's) lack of art skill - especially with characters. I made the character art you see in the trailer as a stopgap, and borrowed the Prison Architect style because I'm not a good enough artist to develop a new one. They were never intended to be final. With this Kickstarter, we'll be able to get a real artist who can sit down and develop an original style for RimWorld."
Very, very disappointing.
Placeholder doesn't necessarily mean what it currently is will not be the final result. A placeholder is just that, a temp object for occupying the place while a decision is pending. There's nothing that says what is currently a placeholder can't be made the official thing. Frankly, I like the style. It's not a common style and is kinda cute.
Some may be disappointed that it's not gunna change, but I'm quite thankful. If it really bothers people that much, maybe they can get together, find an artist, and make a graphical mod.
Quote from: Aarkreinsil on April 19, 2016, 07:34:52 AM
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
Summed up perfectly. The man knows his stuff.
as half the thread has said so far, realistically better graphics would require compromises to be made, and I think improved graphics are worth those compromises, so I think its good they stay the way they are
and tbh, I don't have any problems with the graphics as they are right now anyway
I played Prison Architect before Rimworld and to be honest the simillarities are what attracted me to the game in the first place.
Now i notice the differences like Prison Architect has more of a 'blue printy' look to it. whereas rimworld seems more... Gritty in a way, like it's graphics have more substance in a way.
The bit on minimalist graphics for more content is very true. Granted, I'm glad its not asci graphics, but if tynan went into full animations for everything, and physically represented injuries, we probably, content wise, would be backwards an update, maybe 2. Object damage overlay is nice, but I'd much rather keep the sliding around pawns, and possibly add z levels, than have animations for everything.
When i saw the original Pre-Alpha on Kickstarter, the graphics as well as concept and design really drew me in. I was part of the community saying we loved the way the game looks, that whilst it can (and has) take on its own unique flavour of the PA style abstractions... it shouldnt do more than it is.
Its simple, but its far from ugly, and games with this kind of art tend to last much longer, look less dated in years to come, than those that go for pseudo-realistic graphics
RImworld graphics DO have that symbolic feel to them. It's the same reason I prefer Ultima IV graphics to Ultima V (ancient RPG games). The games are tile-based, but IV displays individual characters, and big objects like walls, doors, pools of water, chests, monsters etc. Ultima V tries to be as literal as the low resolution permits, which means you suddenly see torches on walls, specific kinds of food on table, bushes and other cosmetic stuff. I have a hypothesis that true symbolic graphics don't bother me, because they don't try to appeal to my sense of aesthetics. Detailed, literal graphics set off my sense of aesthetics, and I'm hard to please in that area.
For the record I LIKE graphics of most roguelike games, but Dwarf Fortress turns me off. Not because it's hard to understand or learn, but because it's messy. Roguelikes usually have good visual clarity once you learn the symbols, DF is terrible at that. And I get the same vibe as in Ultima V - DF tries to be very literal, and pack as many symbols as possible.
Quote from: whoishigh on April 19, 2016, 07:56:20 AM
Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM
The graphics are deliberately abstracted. This helps story generation because it allows your brain to create the images instead of trying to make the game do it. Your brain can imagine much better than any software system.
That, and I'd much rather put more effort into simulating interesting events rather than making more detailed pixels to express the simple events we already have. Lots of games have detailed graphics; almost no games have detailed simulation.
So yeah, the current graphics are final.
You could mod them to be more detailed if you wished, but I think you'd just be walking into a trap and making the game (paradoxically) less engaging.
Wow, that's really disappointing. When I bought the game, the idea was that these were placeholders. Specifically because of the following description on Kickstarter (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tynansylvester/rimworld/description):
"It looks a lot like Prison Architect. What's up with that?
Blame my (Tynan's) lack of art skill - especially with characters. I made the character art you see in the trailer as a stopgap, and borrowed the Prison Architect style because I'm not a good enough artist to develop a new one. They were never intended to be final. With this Kickstarter, we'll be able to get a real artist who can sit down and develop an original style for RimWorld."
Very, very disappointing.
if you read the quote you might have noticed that that is from toady... the guy that made df not tynan the creator of rimworld
Quote from: 1st Lt. Spartan714 on April 20, 2016, 12:07:59 AM
if you read the quote you might have noticed that that is from toady... the guy that made df not tynan the creator of rimworld
Funny how it says "Quote from: Tynan on January 20, 2015, 04:46:21 PM"
Dwarf Fortress would be the best selling game of all time if it had Prison Architect level graphics (core). You can say the only reason it has the gameplay it does is because it doesn't have to worry about gfx and you would be partially right.
Most of us here discussing this don't need The Witcher graphics to play a game, but most people need to know, easily, what they are looking at and I think Rimworld currently fails that test. I can say that at least for me. Obviously a lot here are attracted to the gfx Rimword has in some kinda retro way, which seems strange to me. I don't really need great graphics to play a game but if you want me to playtest a game you need to let me know easily what you are doing.
The graphics being as they are also allow modders to be included a lot more than most other games.
Quote from: hoochy on April 20, 2016, 12:29:15 PM
A complex resource management and planning game would be the best selling game of all time if it had Prison Architect level graphics (core).
I suppose it would sell more than Angry Birds, too ?
Quotemost people need to know, easily, what they are looking at and I think Rimworld currently fails that test. I can say that at least for me.
Specifics please. I think "I don't know what I'm looking at" is a red herring in Rimworld. When you start, you're seeing only very basic things - some animals, plants, and a couple of scattered items. Rifles, medicine, wood, are not hard to figure out by looking at them. Survival rations and steel are not obvious. Plants which are harvested for fruit could be more obvious. Steel, silver veins in mountains are not obvious, but I doubt you would recognize a silver vein if you saw it in real life. Water is a bigger problem, it would benefit from some kind of ripple effect.
When you start constructing stuff, then - unless your memory is weak - you have the benefit of choosing the construction type first, so you're learning the way it looks at the moment you're placing it. Really, Rimworld is not a typical roguelike game where you're travelling through a generated world, encountering doors, chests, strange monsters. Vast majority of creatures you encounter are humans. Manhunter packs are labeled. Cargo pods rarely contain something that isn't meat, so you're not having strange items, objects, buildings thrown at you!
I don't see how you can't tell what you're looking at in Rimworld. It's pretty easy to tell if you've played, and saying you can't tell if you haven't would apply to many games.
Quote from: hoochy on April 20, 2016, 12:29:15 PM
Dwarf Fortress would be the best selling game of all time if it had Prison Architect level graphics (core).
Might wanna take a look at Gnomoria. It is hands down the closest to Dwarf Fortress you'll get, without actually playing Dwarf Fortress, and aside from the 3D view, the graphics are no more complex than PA and Rimworld.
Quote from: hoochy on April 19, 2016, 01:14:04 AM
The gfx will hold people back from playing this game. It held me back until I saw a video and could make any sense of what I was looking at. I didn't have that same problem with prison architect, its images are easier to determine what you are looking at. Rimworld is a lot more complex than Prison Architect and has "items" and "structures" which aren't immediately obvious from the graphics. You look at PA and realize its a prison, it even has text which gives you an idea of what each room is. I look at the "Shower" text and then these weird circle graphics that look nothing like showers and think "oh thats a shower, ok".
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/NHVUEtyp2zY/maxresdefault.jpg)
People will look at screenshots like this below and wonder what they are looking at, there are no great visual clues and aren't that many things which are obvious. The graphics look better than PA above, but it doesn't actually change the issue that if you don't mind "indie 2d graphics" you just don't know what most of it is you are looking at. Which is the problem, imo. They just need to concentrate on videos for the marketing, or maybe add a bit of text to the rooms (optional) for screenshots so people can understand it better. Some graphics tweaks would certainly help, for people who know the game we don't have a problem looking at the image below and knowing what everything is, but people who have never touched the game will have little idea and that will hurt conversions.
(http://media.moddb.com/images/mods/1/27/26025/rimworld-ref-screen2.jpg)
And an example which will probably help people here understand better. Look at dwarf fortress below, there are people who can look at this and it makes as much sense as the Rimworld graphics do to us. But you are wondering "what is that?" right? "What am I looking at exactly?" Does it make you want to play Dwarf Fortress? If you don't care about graphics then you would likely be playing Dwarf Fortress as it has probably the most options and "gameplay" of any game ever created.
(http://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/thatdude-df-aboveground-640x385.png)
Heaven forbid two games have the same art style! Who cares? I play games to have fun not to judge how it looks.
Quote from: b0rsuk on April 20, 2016, 12:52:42 PM
Quote from: hoochy on April 20, 2016, 12:29:15 PM
A complex resource management and planning game would be the best selling game of all time if it had Prison Architect level graphics (core).
I suppose it would sell more than Angry Birds, too ?
Quotemost people need to know, easily, what they are looking at and I think Rimworld currently fails that test. I can say that at least for me.
Specifics please. I think "I don't know what I'm looking at" is a red herring in Rimworld. When you start, you're seeing only very basic things - some animals, plants, and a couple of scattered items. Rifles, medicine, wood, are not hard to figure out by looking at them. Survival rations and steel are not obvious. Plants which are harvested for fruit could be more obvious. Steel, silver veins in mountains are not obvious, but I doubt you would recognize a silver vein if you saw it in real life. Water is a bigger problem, it would benefit from some kind of ripple effect.
When you start constructing stuff, then - unless your memory is weak - you have the benefit of choosing the construction type first, so you're learning the way it looks at the moment you're placing it. Really, Rimworld is not a typical roguelike game where you're travelling through a generated world, encountering doors, chests, strange monsters. Vast majority of creatures you encounter are humans. Manhunter packs are labeled. Cargo pods rarely contain something that isn't meat, so you're not having strange items, objects, buildings thrown at you!
I had no problem learning what is what once I saw someone playing it and describing what he is doing it, I also had no problem playing it myself, mostly. I was just talking about my first impressions when I gave the game limited time, basically just look at it to see if I'm interested in it. ie What most people do when checking out a game to play. I didn't have this problem with Factorio even though its an arguably more complex game with "2d indie graphics".
If someone who has never played the game before can look at a screenshot and understand even half of what is on the screen then they deserve a medal. :) A game like Rimworld is like an ugly person with a good personality. If you take your time to get to know it, you realize there is a beautiful soul in there. That is true with most good complex games, but there are still improvements you can make to a game to make it visually more cohesive.
To pretend this game wouldn't be doing better, and have done a lot better if it had better graphics is a bit silly. It should go without saying. That doesn't mean the game isn't doing well atm, because obviously it is. And it will obviously do a lot more sales when it goes on Steam, even with its current graphics. Factorio did 2 or 3 times their whole sales after a month on steam, though it has multiplayer which encourages Steam sales. Either way Tynan has been rewarded pretty well for a great game, and will hopefully continue to be.
QuoteA game like Rimworld is like an ugly person with a good personality. If you take your time to get to know it, you realize there is a beautiful soul in there. That is true with most good complex games, but there are still improvements you can make to a game to make it visually more cohesive.
I don't quite get why this isn't enough. I've had relatively little issues figuring out what stuff is, and I'm a little confused on where you'd want to go to make it 'easier to understand' or alternatively prettier. Print room labels on the floors - just for screenshot sakes?
Agreed. If you can't be bothered to put in the time to find out about the game, and judge it by first impressions alone, then your judgement is shallow and invalid.
"Never judge a book by its cover."
Factorio is your example? I can't work out what that game is from a couple screenshots. I watched Nerd3 play it. And most gamers who see a game of the type or style they are interested in will research it further. For example, when KSP was released as EA on steam people were asking for aliens to fight and warp drives to travel to other solar systems and universes
If anything it'll be blessed not to have the impulse buyers and I'll informed crowd, as all they'll do is demand dumb stuff for the game.
I watched the trailer for Factorio on Steam and honestly, it intrigued me. I admit that I didn't fully understand the precise mechanics of the game, or immediately recognise all the objects and methods used in it, but I understood the basic, core concept. Build and defend. That in and of itself was enough to pique my interests, along with its more unique theme of an overall industrial and factory style 'base'. It's a genre I already enjoy, and an interesting theme I've not seen before and would like to try.
It's aesthetics never once came up in my consideration of whether or not to try playing it.
QuoteIf anything it'll be blessed not to have the impulse buyers and I'll informed crowd, as all they'll do is demand dumb stuff for the game.
This is the point I'm trying to make. RimWorld is great because of the relatively deep simulation it offers, not because of it's graphics. Given that there's a limited amount of resources to spend on the game, I'd rather have them go to the simulation. Increasing the amount of available resources would necessarily mean increasing the market for the game. Sure, graphics
might pay for themselves, but it's a slippery slope towards 'dumbing down' the game to make it appeal to that elusive 'mass market' - something pretty much every AAA title suffers from.
All in all it's not a bad suggestion, and I'm sure particular areas of the games' graphics could use some attention - but for me it's far from a priority, and I have grown quite attached to the art style.
Finally, as skully pointed out, it also makes it so that the entry barrier for modders is really low. Virtually anyone with a modicum of coding and/or art skills can create mods, which makes for a nicely varied modding scene. To me, that is a massive part of the games' appeal!
And on a final note, there's quite a few successful indie and even some bigger titles (e.g. Factorio, anything Paradox) that would be truly incomprehensible from screenshots, and even let's plays usually keep you scratching your head about wtf is going on - it's researching and discovering things while you play that is actually part of these games appeal.
You have a point, but don't expect things to change much. Rimworld is a niche game, just like DF. I could never get into the latter because the graphics are way more abstract than Rimworld. Also, it's much more complex and does a poor job of explaining its complexity. Rimworld hits a sweet spot for me in terms of "deep simulation". It's complex (and A13 added a ton of depth to colonists), but not too complex. It has descriptive text for pretty much every object in the game, which I appreciate. It makes it easier to learn and identify things. And finally, it has a Sims-style mood/character building system that I absolutely adore. It's a weird mixed bag of a lot of ideas from different types of simulation games, and it's almost guaranteed not to have mass appeal. The people who love it will love it in spite of graphics, but most will simply not "get it".
Quote from: cultist on April 21, 2016, 11:02:25 AM
You have a point, but don't expect things to change much. Rimworld is a niche game, just like DF. I could never get into the latter because the graphics are way more abstract than Rimworld. Also, it's much more complex and does a poor job of explaining its complexity. Rimworld hits a sweet spot for me in terms of "deep simulation". It's complex (and A13 added a ton of depth to colonists), but not too complex. It has descriptive text for pretty much every object in the game, which I appreciate. It makes it easier to learn and identify things. And finally, it has a Sims-style mood/character building system that I absolutely adore. It's a weird mixed bag of a lot of ideas from different types of simulation games, and it's almost guaranteed not to have mass appeal. The people who love it will love it in spite of graphics, but most will simply not "get it".
I don't think your conclusion is necessarily right. There are millions of gamers from the 80s and 90s that would love something like Rimworld if they could be told about it and could understand it better. Back when games used to be more complex instead of a rollercoaster guided point and click adventure. ;) Let alone the extra millions of new gamers that probably are similar. But of course it is niche in comparison to the whole game market, but if you can sell over 1 million copies then you are doing pretty well for yourself, especially an indie game. I think Rimworld as is could probably get there if it was on Steam. My opinions and comments are mainly about bringing it into that next level.
To say Rimworld wouldn't be better if the graphics were better, if there were proper animations for all the movements, etc is a bit silly. Of course it would be, but in the end it isn't *necessarily* to have a good game. If Rimworld had another competitor that was nearly exactly the same but with better graphics then it wouldn't be doing anywhere near as well. Just like anything coming out now has to somehow be better than Rimworld to be noticed in the same genre.
Quote from: hoochy on April 23, 2016, 08:07:29 AM
If Rimworld had another competitor that was nearly exactly the same but with better graphics then it wouldn't be doing anywhere near as well. Just like anything coming out now has to somehow be better than Rimworld to be noticed in the same genre.
Towns ? Gnomoria ? Goblin Camp ? Maia (sci-fi colony game, 3D graphics) ? Castle Story (good 3D graphics)? Which of them has worse graphics ? They're all less popular than Rimworld. Many of them are also less developed, yet they are not new games. Almost as if making good graphics drained a lot of development effort...
Quote from: b0rsuk on April 23, 2016, 09:00:11 AM
Quote from: hoochy on April 23, 2016, 08:07:29 AM
If Rimworld had another competitor that was nearly exactly the same but with better graphics then it wouldn't be doing anywhere near as well. Just like anything coming out now has to somehow be better than Rimworld to be noticed in the same genre.
Towns ? Gnomoria ? Goblin Camp ? Maia (sci-fi colony game, 3D graphics) ? Castle Story (good 3D graphics)? Which of them has worse graphics ? They're all less popular than Rimworld. Many of them are also less developed, yet they are not new games. Almost as if making good graphics drained a lot of development effort...
They aren't Rimworld in concept or gameplay though. If you had Rimworld as it is right now, yet with better graphics, who would choose the worse graphics option? People with crap PCs maybe? Animation and better graphics wouldn't necessarily be slower, but of course it takes more time to do them, and more money, which is why Rimworld doesn't have them. Not really sure why you are arguing with me unless you believe better graphics would make Rimworld worse, all other things being equal.
Quote from: hoochy on April 23, 2016, 09:23:04 AM
Quote from: b0rsuk on April 23, 2016, 09:00:11 AMIf you had Rimworld as it is right now, yet with better graphics, who would choose the worse graphics option?
What kind of argument is this? you were responding to soeone saying that graphics use up LOTS of dev time and money.
There IS no rimworld as it is now with better graphics.
If it had better graphics from the start, it wouldn't have the gameplay it does now.
If it starts getting better graphics now, then we're done getting new content for quite some time.
By all means, make a poll....would you rather the devs spend their future time on...
[ ]Graphics
[X]Gameplay
(you can see I already voted)
Maia is and always was awful. Same with Towns and Castle-story. I regret buying them. Gnomoria doesn't have "better" graphics, and is no longer in early access. In fact, the only one of these that is remotely like Rimworld is Gnomoria, but it's also different enough to not really compete against eachother.
Looking at these titles, there's a clear correlation between 'bad' graphics and good gameplay, vs 'good' graphics and terrible gameplay. I'd say that Tynan made the right call here.
When you go with minimalistic graphics, they can come in 2 flavor. Appealing and repulsive. For me Dwarf Fortress and Gnomoria graphics are repulsive. I don't like to look at them. RimWorld is appealing.
I really like the way it feels, and has alot of room for improvment (even whole graphics mod) Imagine if all the vegetation trembles with the wind and get's wet with the rain?
Also, imagine the temperature of your gpu. Yeah...
I think the ART for rimworld is spot on. do not change. the ART for Mario back in the day was spot on as well. ive never looked at realistic graphics or graphics in general as a thing. if it matched the game style then the art is fine. no need for realism where the game dont need it. as for DF if everyone hates it because of the art everyone needs to try out "lazy newb pack". adds a lot of art and even some mouse controls ;) but alas i am playing rimworld instead of dwarf fortress purely because it is more user friendly. like i can use the mouse on everything if i want instead of using keyboard only. not because of the "graphics" i find exploring and figuring out what stuff is in a game as part of the game. every game. you are not expected to know what you are looking at from a screen shot. thats half he fun! figuring out what stuff is and how the systems work etc.
like someone else stated other games spent to much time on graphics(probably) its a shame towns never got finished and hasnt been updated in a long time. gnomaria is shallow compared to RW and DF and only tiny tiny updates happen for gnomaria what? once a year?
I would much prefer the production focus to be on the simulation and the stories it tells. plus like i said for me any way the ART to RW is perfect for what it is. i dont need to see feet and knees moving and hands moving back and forth i think it might look goofy but maybe tynan works it out i would be ok with it as long as the art matched the game. i have faith in tynans choices as a developer thus far.