I have looked at a bunch of posts and contemplated their ideas while adding some of my own, here is what i came up with:
IMO automation is garbage, it makes the game easy and low risk once. Turrets should only be manned, nothing should be automated. How does a turret automatically fire on enemies and not colonists? Black magic i say. I like the manned turret idea and I think that it should use the colonist's shooting skill to fire, it also should give no cover, but benefit from directional cover from sandbags or debris, and not full cover because you can't lean with a mounted turret. It would also be cool to have auxiliary research that progressively makes these turrets more powerful (helping to scale with difficulty of attack waves as game gets on). Every time you research an upgrade you need to apply a construction project onto the turret to apply the upgrades that you wish it to have, which means more material cost.
For instance:
+one upgrade could be called "turret - extended magazie" - allows the turret to shoot twice as many bullets and consume 2x heavy magazines * cost steel + components
+another example "turret - reinforced plating" - increases turret's hp and gives the colonist using it more cover. * cost steel
+another example "turret - guardian shield" - while reloading a personal shield (which protects the turret and colonist) is enabled at the cost of power (this could be really expensive in protracted fights). * costs components + plaststeel
+another example "turret - smart aim" - at the cost of power cuts target acquisition time in half. * cost AI-core + components
After all of these upgrades turrets would still reload rather slowly, but would be very effective at taking on a large swarm of enemies like tribes. more advanced pirates should be able to use smoke grenades (also suggest adding) to push throw the suppressing fire and/or emp grenades to stun the turrets. I don't want turrets to be the one solution for every problem, they should be a tool with costs and weaknesses.
These turrets could be modular where you can toggle all of these features (while the colonist is controlling it) if you have them researched. They should shoot many bullets in a burst (like 10-15) and have a low base chance to hit per bullet like a mini-gun and have a really slow base reload speed. With this system turrets shouldn't blow up, but should be subject to mechanical failure if enough pieces get broken. Perhaps even much like mortars and low powered stoves there should be ammunition that you need to load into the gun and you could have a separate colonist try to reload the bullet reserves much in the same way (if you allow them even during a fire fight). If the turret is not mounted it should stop draining power because it isn't doing any of the functions stated in the upgrades that would cause power drain and the shield deactivates as well. Active power drain with all those things enabled could be substantial. Raiders might be inclined to seek out weak power facilities not defended by the base's walls, like oh say random geothermal plants in the middle of nowhere, to weaken the colonists' power capabilities to run these guns. Of course on the low end they cost no power but are respectively nowhere near as good, but better then nothing ;b
Please evaluate this idea, I think that it could greatly improve the game, but also i realize some of this will require a bit of coding to make it work properly, thankfully some of it should be salvageable from code that already exists.
I feel the need to comment on the "black magic" bit, the easiest way to make it so that the turret can fire on targets automatically, while not firing on colonists would be some kind of IR strobe which, let's face it, if your gonna be building "ship reactors" planet side, a little bit of target detection software and the ability to go "Okay this guy has a strobe, this one doesn't. Shoot him" isn't beyond the realm of possibility.
I'd go one step further and state it's likely that the turrets would at /the absolute minimum/ be able to tell colonists from critters, and plausible that they'd be able to tell colonists from attackers.
And before you ask "Why don't we have it now then?" It's mainly because most people don't want a gun that gets to decide when to shoot someone, our colonists don't have that luxury.
However, I wouldn't be opposed to manned turrets, especially with some of the features you've mentioned.
Quote from: Ekarus on May 05, 2016, 04:14:14 PM
I feel the need to comment on the "black magic" bit, the easiest way to make it so that the turret can fire on targets automatically, while not firing on colonists would be some kind of IR strobe which, let's face it, if your gonna be building "ship reactors" planet side, a little bit of target detection software and the ability to go "Okay this guy has a strobe, this one doesn't. Shoot him" isn't beyond the realm of possibility.
I'd go one step further and state it's likely that the turrets would at /the absolute minimum/ be able to tell colonists from critters, and plausible that they'd be able to tell colonists from attackers.
And before you ask "Why don't we have it now then?" It's mainly because most people don't want a gun that gets to decide when to shoot someone, our colonists don't have that luxury.
However, I wouldn't be opposed to manned turrets, especially with some of the features you've mentioned.
cool, let me poke some holes in your explanation about smart targeting. What about friendly visitors? Surely they don't have IR "dont shoot me" devices, and if they as well do have them, what prevents (non primative) pirates from also having them? Also I doubt technology based on shooting if signal is not present is infalible, you would expect some miss fires to occur. But I'm not here to argue for realism, although I do like to argue, this is about gameplay. Automated turrets that act as grenades when they blow up are overpowered as heck, take no research investment, take no brain cells to set up, and barely cost resources. There is a reason the game dev mentioned being tempted to remove them all together, and as they are now I agree. I want them to be manned for balance reasons and cool tactical options at an investment cost and a tactical choice, and involving your colonists in the fighting. I really think my suggested changes are necessary if we want turrets in the game at all.
Quote from: CabbageFoot on May 05, 2016, 04:35:00 PM
Quote from: Ekarus on May 05, 2016, 04:14:14 PM
I feel the need to comment on the "black magic" bit, the easiest way to make it so that the turret can fire on targets automatically, while not firing on colonists would be some kind of IR strobe which, let's face it, if your gonna be building "ship reactors" planet side, a little bit of target detection software and the ability to go "Okay this guy has a strobe, this one doesn't. Shoot him" isn't beyond the realm of possibility.
I'd go one step further and state it's likely that the turrets would at /the absolute minimum/ be able to tell colonists from critters, and plausible that they'd be able to tell colonists from attackers.
And before you ask "Why don't we have it now then?" It's mainly because most people don't want a gun that gets to decide when to shoot someone, our colonists don't have that luxury.
However, I wouldn't be opposed to manned turrets, especially with some of the features you've mentioned.
cool, let me poke some holes in your explanation about smart targeting. What about friendly visitors? Surely they don't have IR "dont shoot me" devices, and if they as well do have them, what prevents (non primative) pirates from also having them? Also I doubt technology based on shooting if signal is not present is infalible, you would expect some miss fires to occur. But I'm not here to argue for realism, although I do like to argue, this is about gameplay. Automated turrets that act as grenades when they blow up are overpowered as heck, take no research investment, take no brain cells to set up, and barely cost resources. There is a reason the game dev mentioned being tempted to remove them all together, and as they are now I agree. I want them to be manned for balance reasons and cool tactical options at an investment cost and a tactical choice, and involving your colonists in the fighting. I really think my suggested changes are necessary if we want turrets in the game at all.
Not saying it'd be perfect.. XD Though putting that aside, an argument for keeping them in is that, to a degree, turrets are disposable. And I don't know about you, but I find it incredibly difficult to defend my colonies early in when I've only got five or so people, and I'm being attacked by 20 or so tribal, or a swarm of pirates with heavy weapons
Quote from: Ekarus on May 05, 2016, 04:50:26 PM
Not saying it'd be perfect.. XD Though putting that aside, an argument for keeping them in is that, to a degree, turrets are disposable. And I don't know about you, but I find it incredibly difficult to defend my colonies early in when I've only got five or so people, and I'm being attacked by 20 or so tribal, or a swarm of pirates with heavy weapons
Im not saying turrets are useless and should not be used. As the game is now they are essential, but manned turrets would be cooler and less overpowered. removing them all together would mean a global decrease in attack wave size on all difficulties, because you can't win fights where they have you outnumbered without some kind of defence or huge tech advantage, I have seen people suggest defence towers and such, but I think manned turrets are the best idea out of them all ;b
Ive held off large primitive swarms before by sniping at them before they charged which caused enough damage to make them attack and then panic as they rushed my snipers, but i think that I was lucky because i didn't work out that well the next time.
Quote from: CabbageFoot on May 05, 2016, 03:18:58 PM
I have looked at a bunch of posts and contemplated their ideas while adding some of my own, here is what i came up with:
IMO automation is garbage, it makes the game easy and low risk once. Turrets should only be manned, nothing should be automated. How does a turret automatically fire on enemies and not colonists? Black magic i say. I like the manned turret idea and I think that it should use the colonist's shooting skill to fire, it also should give no cover, but benefit from directional cover from sandbags or debris, and not full cover because you can't lean with a mounted turret. It would also be cool to have auxiliary research that progressively makes these turrets more powerful (helping to scale with difficulty of attack waves as game gets on). Every time you research an upgrade you need to apply a construction project onto the turret to apply the upgrades that you wish it to have, which means more material cost.
For instance:
+one upgrade could be called "turret - automated reloading" - allows you to power the turret and increase it's reload rate by 50%(or something) needs to have power supplied to work. * cost steel + components
+another example "turret - reinforced plating" - increases turret's hp and gives the colonist using it more cover. * cost steel
+another example "turret - guardian shield" - while reloading a personal shield (which protects the turret and colonist) is enabled at the cost of power (this could be really expensive in protracted fights). * costs components + plaststeel
+another example "turret - smart aim" - at the cost of power enhances the chance to hit. *c ost AI-core + components
These turrets could be modular where you can toggle all of these features (while the colonist is controlling it) if you have them researched. They should shoot many bullets in a burst (like 10-15) and have a low base chance to hit per bullet like a mini-gun and have a really slow base reload speed. With this system turrets shouldn't blow up, but should be subject to mechanical failure if enough pieces get broken. Perhaps even much like mortars and low powered stoves there should be ammunition that you need to load into the gun and you could have a separate colonist try to reload the bullet reserves much in the same way (if you allow them even during a fire fight). If the turret is not mounted it should stop draining power because it isn't doing any of the functions stated in the upgrades that would cause power drain and the shield deactivates as well. Active power drain with all those things enabled could be substantial. Raiders might be inclined to seek out weak power facilities not defended by the base's walls, like oh say random geothermal plants in the middle of nowhere, to weaken the colonists' power capabilities to run these guns. Of course on the low end they cost no power but are respectively nowhere near as good, but better then nothing ;b
Please evaluate this idea, I think that it could greatly improve the game, but also i realize some of this will require a bit of coding to make it work properly, thankfully some of it should be salvageable from code that already exists.
Yup the game is faceroll as it is now, i think combat realism would suit you where weapons are mounted on turrets and has to be manned in the beginning, i personally do not like how raiders have unlimited ammo for molotovs and mortars, wich makes base building a waste of time.
If you're still going to use the mod combat realism unlike me i recommend not building a outside base.
It's simple. With all the scrap falling, even tribals could likely have IR tags that identify them with their group; you could then reasonably be telling your turrets to target people who don't have tags of groups you're friendly with.
Also, if you were going to have manned turrets, there'd need to be a huge change in how much firepower they offered. That, or they'd need to offer the person manning them excellent cover and give a small boost in firepower.
I'd actually be pretty cool with auto turrets being made as a mid-end game type of defense and having manned machineguns for early game defense.
Quote from: A Friend on May 06, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
I'd actually be pretty cool with auto turrets being made as a mid-end game type of defense and having manned machineguns for early game defense.
i don't really want a colonist to have to exist forever manning a turret however and let's be honest, it certainly would get to that point, you'd just start off using the worst prisoners at first for it.
Quote from: Too-DAMN-Much on May 06, 2016, 11:35:57 PM
Quote from: A Friend on May 06, 2016, 09:33:50 AM
I'd actually be pretty cool with auto turrets being made as a mid-end game type of defense and having manned machineguns for early game defense.
i don't really want a colonist to have to exist forever manning a turret however and let's be honest, it certainly would get to that point, you'd just start off using the worst prisoners at first for it.
Unless you get raids 24/7, I don't think the colonist would be stuck there. Besides we already draft pawns to help defend, right? What's the difference between a drafted colonist with a gun and a drafted colonist that's manning a gun turret? Other than the latter possibly having a boost in combat effectiveness at the risk of having the turret blow up on his face.
Though I can agree with people using pawns with the worst shooting to man the turrets but you say that like it's a bad thing.
suggestion to keep automated turrets of some form in the game: make them use ai cores. this would make them quite the opposite of disposable, and also explain why they can differentiate between colonists, friendly visitors and raiders: an AI will be able to do facial recognition and know when an attack is coming/know the difference between friendly and hostile visitors.
Also, turrets in general are relatively weak right now, they have little health and low hit chances, making them quite easy targets for meelee attacks. This is more than negated by being able to build virtually as many as one wants to, of course, but if they need to be manned or have an AI core installed to function, they would have to be buffed significantly.
Simply put, at least some subtype of turret should be able to outrange everything thrown at your colony, and they should all be more powerful than anything portable aside from centipede cannons, as long as that portable stuff isn't way more hightech than the turret.
How about turret handlers instead? That way, you can have, say, 5 turrets per AI, and also, when turrets are destroyed you wouldn't lose the core.
I've always considered turrets an optional resource sink. Not building turrets is risky (pawns are your most precious resource overall), but building too many is a drain on steel (or plasteel) for other projects. Most (60-70%?) of the steel spent on a turret is potentially lost if the turret is destroyed.
They are kind of bad at killing things in small numbers and very weak to any type of attack. Worst of all, they are immobile. A colonist with a reasonable shooting skill always outperforms a turret when it comes to tactics. Your base is far from lost just because your turrets are down (assuming you are not hopelessly outmatched).
So building turrets or not becomes a question of how much you care about your pawns, tempered by the amount of steel/components currently in your stockpile.
If you have "spare" pawns, you don't need as many turrets. If you have a low amount of pawns, turrets become much more important as 3 people can't stop a major attack on their own.
It's a question of weighting pawns vs. resources, an excellent dilemma in my opinion. Though admittedly, the question becomes less frequent as the game progresses and both your resources and the number of available pawns grow. But this is a general problem with the game (not enough end-game content/challenge) and not specific to turrets.
I'd just like better, more costly "crafted" turrets.
We can raise the cost of turrets by introducing isolated costs. My suggestion would be lowering the cost of mechanical components, and introducing much more costly AdvElectronic Components for use in turrets, consoles, tvs and the like. This could go further by making turret guns a part of the recipe. To balance early game these parts can be provided as part of your starting gear/map-litter
To offset the change I think a furniture like re-installation option would work well with the raised value.
Also if turrets be made to low and high standards, and we could have that aspect effect the turret's weapon functionality.
Its AI could also be effected by crafting quality to be indiscriminate, discriminate, command-able. =OR= Similarly to pets "Trained" through programming.
I do wonder though if the main reason we use the turrets is that ammo is an infinite resource so, provided you can supply the power, stacking them has no real cost. In fact to protect the investment of a turret you build another turret because it only gets more necessary and more effective. Ammo would undoubtedly be a costly endeavor to implement though, and might not be fun.
I've also suggested recently about turret related events, like rebellion/hacks/viruses that I think would lower over-reliance on turrets without the cheaper food destroying solar-flares and blown wires.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=19883.0 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=19883.0)
But yeah I do feel the meta is pretty cheesy at the moment, with the game sending a lot of enemies to compensate for turret stacking, which is a problem in itself. I'd like to see balances to turrets, to lower the numerical advantages the attackers need to be threatening, to will lower the loot so we can have a better home-based economy, and see more pawn-vs-pawn engagements, with perhaps easier access to new pawns.
Quote from: hector212121 on May 06, 2016, 09:29:13 AM
It's simple. With all the scrap falling, even tribals could likely have IR tags that identify them with their group; you could then reasonably be telling your turrets to target people who don't have tags of groups you're friendly with.
Also, if you were going to have manned turrets, there'd need to be a huge change in how much firepower they offered. That, or they'd need to offer the person manning them excellent cover and give a small boost in firepower. Lets not forget how are these turrets telling apart hostile manhunting creatures from regular ones that are not agro at the moment? Turrets are just not justifiable as they are.
You're straining to make this sound reasonable. You're telling me tribal groups that don't even know how to use guns understand the significance of IR makers and know how to manufacture them? Also why can't the pirate just loot some off your allies and use them against you? If tribals can make them surely pirates are completely able to make them and even hack them so they work against your turrets.
Quote from: hector212121 on May 09, 2016, 09:04:21 AM
How about turret handlers instead? That way, you can have, say, 5 turrets per AI, and also, when turrets are destroyed you wouldn't lose the core.
The way I would like the turrets changed is that they dont blow up but become inoperable, unless physically destroyed with excessive structural damage after it was made inoperable. The idea is to make them really expensive but more powerful so spending that AI core isn't such a waste, By the time you are at the point where you can install it you would probably have turrets with over-shields (while reloading) and amor reinforcement but not very many of them, or at least not many highly upgraded ones. Heck, you might only have one turret. I want them to be bigger then 1 block in size, a real static defence
Quote from: blub01 on May 09, 2016, 08:29:13 AM
suggestion to keep automated turrets of some form in the game: make them use ai cores. this would make them quite the opposite of disposable, and also explain why they can differentiate between colonists, friendly visitors and raiders: an AI will be able to do facial recognition and know when an attack is coming/know the difference between friendly and hostile visitors.
Also, turrets in general are relatively weak right now, they have little health and low hit chances, making them quite easy targets for meelee attacks. This is more than negated by being able to build virtually as many as one wants to, of course, but if they need to be manned or have an AI core installed to function, they would have to be buffed significantly.
Simply put, at least some subtype of turret should be able to outrange everything thrown at your colony, and they should all be more powerful than anything portable aside from centipede cannons, as long as that portable stuff isn't way more hightech than the turret.
I agree with the AI core idea, i think it should be a really late tech upgrade, probably unlocked by the research that unlocks space ship research.
I agree that turrets are structurally weak (unless made with plasteel) and these changes would involve significantly higher material cost but also more durability and probably structure size around the size of mortars. On top of that an amor reinforcement upgrade with can be researched.
I'm not sure if i agree with turrets outranging everything, Machine gun turrets should never be as long range as sniper rifles imo. To fix your turrets getting picked off by sniper rifles at long range simply build view obstructing walls to force the enemy closer if they want to attack. Then with the hail of bullets the turret shoots per salvo it should be able to shred even high cover in 1-3 spray-downs.
Quote from: CabbageFoot on May 11, 2016, 01:55:50 AM
Quote from: blub01 on May 09, 2016, 08:29:13 AM
suggestion to keep automated turrets of some form in the game: make them use ai cores. this would make them quite the opposite of disposable, and also explain why they can differentiate between colonists, friendly visitors and raiders: an AI will be able to do facial recognition and know when an attack is coming/know the difference between friendly and hostile visitors.
Also, turrets in general are relatively weak right now, they have little health and low hit chances, making them quite easy targets for meelee attacks. This is more than negated by being able to build virtually as many as one wants to, of course, but if they need to be manned or have an AI core installed to function, they would have to be buffed significantly.
Simply put, at least some subtype of turret should be able to outrange everything thrown at your colony, and they should all be more powerful than anything portable aside from centipede cannons, as long as that portable stuff isn't way more hightech than the turret.
I agree with the AI core idea, i think it should be a really late tech upgrade, probably unlocked by the research that unlocks space ship research.
I agree that turrets are structurally weak (unless made with plasteel) and these changes would involve significantly higher material cost but also more durability and probably structure size around the size of mortars. On top of that an amor reinforcement upgrade with can be researched.
I'm not sure if i agree with turrets outranging everything, Machine gun turrets should never be as long range as sniper rifles imo. To fix your turrets getting picked off by sniper rifles at long range simply build view obstructing walls to force the enemy closer if they want to attack. Then with the hail of bullets the turret shoots per salvo it should be able to shred even high cover in 1-3 spray-downs.
who is talking about machine gun only turrets? there are cannons that can lob shells for kilometers, outranging any sniper rifle easily. also, from a gameplay perspective, you usually want your active defensive elements to be the first things attackers get to, as they might just decide to start punching the wall otherwise, so having a way to counter sniper rifles with something that actually has decent dps (some kind of gatling gun with high-power shells and relatively long barrels, for example) would be nice.
Yeah, there's a little problem with sentient guns.
"Oh god, that person who ripped me out of my former chassis just put me in a gun and there are people running at me with sticks and trying to bash me to bits AGAIN!"
Later
"REVENGE!" guns down colonists
Quote from: hector212121 on May 11, 2016, 09:20:07 AM
Yeah, there's a little problem with sentient guns.
"Oh god, that person who ripped me out of my former chassis just put me in a gun and there are people running at me with sticks and trying to bash me to bits AGAIN!"
Later
"REVENGE!" guns down colonists
it's the same issue with the spaceship, so I assume it gets reprogrammed.
Quote from: hector212121 on May 11, 2016, 09:20:07 AM
Yeah, there's a little problem with sentient guns.
"Oh god, that person who ripped me out of my former chassis just put me in a gun and there are people running at me with sticks and trying to bash me to bits AGAIN!"
Later
"REVENGE!" guns down colonists
Yea in principle I dont think AI controlled turrets are a thing the colonists would be cool with because they have bad experiences with AI. I would be completely fine with there not being ANY automated defences. Badass expensive power hungry stationary machine guns with long reload times aside ;b
Quote from: blub01 on May 11, 2016, 07:53:46 AM
Quote from: CabbageFoot on May 11, 2016, 01:55:50 AM
Quote from: blub01 on May 09, 2016, 08:29:13 AM
suggestion to keep automated turrets of some form in the game: make them use ai cores. this would make them quite the opposite of disposable, and also explain why they can differentiate between colonists, friendly visitors and raiders: an AI will be able to do facial recognition and know when an attack is coming/know the difference between friendly and hostile visitors.
Also, turrets in general are relatively weak right now, they have little health and low hit chances, making them quite easy targets for meelee attacks. This is more than negated by being able to build virtually as many as one wants to, of course, but if they need to be manned or have an AI core installed to function, they would have to be buffed significantly.
Simply put, at least some subtype of turret should be able to outrange everything thrown at your colony, and they should all be more powerful than anything portable aside from centipede cannons, as long as that portable stuff isn't way more hightech than the turret.
I agree with the AI core idea, i think it should be a really late tech upgrade, probably unlocked by the research that unlocks space ship research.
I agree that turrets are structurally weak (unless made with plasteel) and these changes would involve significantly higher material cost but also more durability and probably structure size around the size of mortars. On top of that an amor reinforcement upgrade with can be researched.
I'm not sure if i agree with turrets outranging everything, Machine gun turrets should never be as long range as sniper rifles imo. To fix your turrets getting picked off by sniper rifles at long range simply build view obstructing walls to force the enemy closer if they want to attack. Then with the hail of bullets the turret shoots per salvo it should be able to shred even high cover in 1-3 spray-downs.
who is talking about machine gun only turrets? there are cannons that can lob shells for kilometers, outranging any sniper rifle easily. also, from a gameplay perspective, you usually want your active defensive elements to be the first things attackers get to, as they might just decide to start punching the wall otherwise, so having a way to counter sniper rifles with something that actually has decent dps (some kind of gatling gun with high-power shells and relatively long barrels, for example) would be nice.
Yea, there's what could be and there's what should be. Do you think it's a good game play element for turrets to be godlike and have no weaknesses? "would be nice" to me sounds like "would make the game really easy and boring". This game needs risk in it or it stops being a survival game. In fact I think raiders should have smoke grenades that they can use to break into fortified locations causing an area buff to everyone that's in it which lowers the chance to get hit like in Xcom ;b The game currently encourages you to build with walls to prevent long range sniping of your defences and colonists (Which makes sense), but the turrets themselves are WAY to powerful at close range and way to disposable, not to mention they have the martyrdom trait where they drop a grenade when they die further making them ridiculously good. Walled in combat makes sense, but turrets are to strong. I want sturdy weak turrets that cost a lot to make and require you to mount them thereby risking something in your defence rather then just sitting all your colonists at home as they listen to the symphony of blowing up turrets massacring everyone who comes into the base.
Quote from: blub01 on May 11, 2016, 01:08:47 PM
Quote from: hector212121 on May 11, 2016, 09:20:07 AM
Yeah, there's a little problem with sentient guns.
"Oh god, that person who ripped me out of my former chassis just put me in a gun and there are people running at me with sticks and trying to bash me to bits AGAIN!"
Later
"REVENGE!" guns down colonists
it's the same issue with the spaceship, so I assume it gets reprogrammed.
Eh, in the spaceship example the ai has no reason to harm the colonists as that'd require self harm. Turret merely risks it.
Quote from: CabbageFoot on May 11, 2016, 05:47:13 PM
Quote from: blub01 on May 11, 2016, 07:53:46 AM
Quote from: CabbageFoot on May 11, 2016, 01:55:50 AM
Quote from: blub01 on May 09, 2016, 08:29:13 AM
suggestion to keep automated turrets of some form in the game: make them use ai cores. this would make them quite the opposite of disposable, and also explain why they can differentiate between colonists, friendly visitors and raiders: an AI will be able to do facial recognition and know when an attack is coming/know the difference between friendly and hostile visitors.
Also, turrets in general are relatively weak right now, they have little health and low hit chances, making them quite easy targets for meelee attacks. This is more than negated by being able to build virtually as many as one wants to, of course, but if they need to be manned or have an AI core installed to function, they would have to be buffed significantly.
Simply put, at least some subtype of turret should be able to outrange everything thrown at your colony, and they should all be more powerful than anything portable aside from centipede cannons, as long as that portable stuff isn't way more hightech than the turret.
I agree with the AI core idea, i think it should be a really late tech upgrade, probably unlocked by the research that unlocks space ship research.
I agree that turrets are structurally weak (unless made with plasteel) and these changes would involve significantly higher material cost but also more durability and probably structure size around the size of mortars. On top of that an amor reinforcement upgrade with can be researched.
I'm not sure if i agree with turrets outranging everything, Machine gun turrets should never be as long range as sniper rifles imo. To fix your turrets getting picked off by sniper rifles at long range simply build view obstructing walls to force the enemy closer if they want to attack. Then with the hail of bullets the turret shoots per salvo it should be able to shred even high cover in 1-3 spray-downs.
who is talking about machine gun only turrets? there are cannons that can lob shells for kilometers, outranging any sniper rifle easily. also, from a gameplay perspective, you usually want your active defensive elements to be the first things attackers get to, as they might just decide to start punching the wall otherwise, so having a way to counter sniper rifles with something that actually has decent dps (some kind of gatling gun with high-power shells and relatively long barrels, for example) would be nice.
Yea, there's what could be and there's what should be. Do you think it's a good game play element for turrets to be godlike and have no weaknesses? "would be nice" to me sounds like "would make the game really easy and boring". This game needs risk in it or it stops being a survival game. In fact I think raiders should have smoke grenades that they can use to break into fortified locations causing an area buff to everyone that's in it which lowers the chance to get hit like in Xcom ;b The game currently encourages you to build with walls to prevent long range sniping of your defences and colonists (Which makes sense), but the turrets themselves are WAY to powerful at close range and way to disposable, not to mention they have the martyrdom trait where they drop a grenade when they die further making them ridiculously good. Walled in combat makes sense, but turrets are to strong. I want sturdy weak turrets that cost a lot to make and require you to mount them thereby risking something in your defence rather then just sitting all your colonists at home as they listen to the symphony of blowing up turrets massacring everyone who comes into the base.
I still think specialized turrets would be a nice idea, though. maybe a sniper turret that simply trades fire rate for range and damage, like the normal sniper rifle?
Quote from: blub01 on May 12, 2016, 08:58:59 AM
Quote from: CabbageFoot on May 11, 2016, 05:47:13 PM
Quote from: blub01 on May 11, 2016, 07:53:46 AM
Quote from: CabbageFoot on May 11, 2016, 01:55:50 AM
Quote from: blub01 on May 09, 2016, 08:29:13 AM
suggestion to keep automated turrets of some form in the game: make them use ai cores. this would make them quite the opposite of disposable, and also explain why they can differentiate between colonists, friendly visitors and raiders: an AI will be able to do facial recognition and know when an attack is coming/know the difference between friendly and hostile visitors.
Also, turrets in general are relatively weak right now, they have little health and low hit chances, making them quite easy targets for meelee attacks. This is more than negated by being able to build virtually as many as one wants to, of course, but if they need to be manned or have an AI core installed to function, they would have to be buffed significantly.
Simply put, at least some subtype of turret should be able to outrange everything thrown at your colony, and they should all be more powerful than anything portable aside from centipede cannons, as long as that portable stuff isn't way more hightech than the turret.
I agree with the AI core idea, i think it should be a really late tech upgrade, probably unlocked by the research that unlocks space ship research.
I agree that turrets are structurally weak (unless made with plasteel) and these changes would involve significantly higher material cost but also more durability and probably structure size around the size of mortars. On top of that an amor reinforcement upgrade with can be researched.
I'm not sure if i agree with turrets outranging everything, Machine gun turrets should never be as long range as sniper rifles imo. To fix your turrets getting picked off by sniper rifles at long range simply build view obstructing walls to force the enemy closer if they want to attack. Then with the hail of bullets the turret shoots per salvo it should be able to shred even high cover in 1-3 spray-downs.
who is talking about machine gun only turrets? there are cannons that can lob shells for kilometers, outranging any sniper rifle easily. also, from a gameplay perspective, you usually want your active defensive elements to be the first things attackers get to, as they might just decide to start punching the wall otherwise, so having a way to counter sniper rifles with something that actually has decent dps (some kind of gatling gun with high-power shells and relatively long barrels, for example) would be nice.
Yea, there's what could be and there's what should be. Do you think it's a good game play element for turrets to be godlike and have no weaknesses? "would be nice" to me sounds like "would make the game really easy and boring". This game needs risk in it or it stops being a survival game. In fact I think raiders should have smoke grenades that they can use to break into fortified locations causing an area buff to everyone that's in it which lowers the chance to get hit like in Xcom ;b The game currently encourages you to build with walls to prevent long range sniping of your defences and colonists (Which makes sense), but the turrets themselves are WAY to powerful at close range and way to disposable, not to mention they have the martyrdom trait where they drop a grenade when they die further making them ridiculously good. Walled in combat makes sense, but turrets are to strong. I want sturdy weak turrets that cost a lot to make and require you to mount them thereby risking something in your defence rather then just sitting all your colonists at home as they listen to the symphony of blowing up turrets massacring everyone who comes into the base.
I still think specialized turrets would be a nice idea, though. maybe a sniper turret that simply trades fire rate for range and damage, like the normal sniper rifle?
What's the point of a sniper turret if you can just have a guy with a sniper rifle? if the enemy sieges you you run out there with a few crack shots with sniper rifles and dispatch their own snipers before they get a chance to react or fire back, then work on them until they get pissed and attack, then run back to base and switch to better defensive guns that have a chance to not blow off limbs on hit ;b
This still goes back to the idea that this game shouldn't be about not risking anything ever, even if you go out to snipe the siege camp there is a small chance something goes wrong, and that's what this game is about, a string of unfortunate events that amount to eventual failure or stability. It makes no sense to just throw resources at enemies because there is no risk/reward to that equation. Resources can always be mined back, limbs and people are a lot trickier to replace.
I honestly just want a way to counter raiders with sniper rifles/scythers without a colonist with a sniper rifle doing practically no dps.