I think this has been mentioned a few times, but I think the way plants spread could use some tweaking. Anyone who plays on a larger map and goes through a Toxic Fallout will wind up with a map that's completely devoid of any wild plants except at the fringes, large fires out in the wilderness can prove unrecoverable for wild plants as well. As the plants try to repopulate, they'll hit various barriers they won't spread past like hills, rough rock floors, desert sand, marshes/water, etc. This will tend to make the majority of the map's outdoors interior completely barren for the remainder of the game. Could the code for wild plants reseeding to be maybe tweaked a bit to make it easier for wild plants to cast their seeds over unplantable barriers (hills/rock/marsh/etc.)? Really kinda sucks that an event will have everlasting effects like this.
Or have colonists craft some kind of "seed bombs (fast growing seeds)" which are then launched away via mortars :D
Quote from: Chibiabos on May 19, 2016, 07:39:31 PM
I think this has been mentioned a few times, but I think the way plants spread could use some tweaking. Anyone who plays on a larger map and goes through a Toxic Fallout will wind up with a map that's completely devoid of any wild plants except at the fringes, large fires out in the wilderness can prove unrecoverable for wild plants as well. As the plants try to repopulate, they'll hit various barriers they won't spread past like hills, rough rock floors, desert sand, marshes/water, etc. This will tend to make the majority of the map's outdoors interior completely barren for the remainder of the game. Could the code for wild plants reseeding to be maybe tweaked a bit to make it easier for wild plants to cast their seeds over unplantable barriers (hills/rock/marsh/etc.)? Really kinda sucks that an event will have everlasting effects like this.
I think an easier way of doing this would be having grass grow after rain since grass doesn't send it's seeds into the air, they stay in the ground. So aslong as there was grass there at some point there would be seeds. Maybe have an invisible passive tile trait called "Seeded"?
Whether or not the seedbank itself has been poisoned by the toxic fall out is an open question. But yeah, I can't think of any plants in Rimworld that wouldn't produce a seedbank, so spontaneous regrowth once the soil because livable for the plants would be expected to occur. I'd really love it if after raining in the extreme desert biome we could see massive flower blooms. Here's an example from the Atacama desert which is one of the driest deserts on the planet after rain: (http://www.telesurtv.net/__export/1446481677040/sites/telesur/img/multimedia/2015/11/02/florecer_desierto_guy_tal_14.jpg)
Quote from: des on May 19, 2016, 09:28:52 PM
I think an easier way of doing this would be having grass grow after rain since grass doesn't send it's seeds into the air, they stay in the ground. So aslong as there was grass there at some point there would be seeds. Maybe have an invisible passive tile trait called "Seeded"?
More realistic would be how nature does it -- when herbivores eat plants, the plants get a benefit by the herbivores eating the seeds, then the herbivores roaming and ... depositing ... those seeds with a rather fertile plop.
In-game this could be as simple as whenever an animal would make "animal filth" but its on a fertile tile, it instead plops a seedling of a wild plant.
I don't think a spreading via animals would be fast enough to repopulate the map in any feasible amount of time. Especially once hunting etc. is factored in.
I like the idea of the seed bank, that way the map can recover without requiring a third party, and it wouldn't take nearly as long as growing in from the edge of the map, especially on a 400*400 map.
Quote from: Damien Hart on May 20, 2016, 12:18:02 AM
I don't think a spreading via animals would be fast enough to repopulate the map in any feasible amount of time. Especially once hunting etc. is factored in.
I like the idea of the seed bank, that way the map can recover without requiring a third party, and it wouldn't take nearly as long as growing in from the edge of the map, especially on a 400*400 map.
Its slow, but at least it'd eventually work. At present most maps I play never regrow in their interior after a Toxic Fallout.
Why not both? Plants aren't entirely dependent on animals for spreading seeds, but animals along with ideal weather (rain and such) helps promote growth. Soil fertility could be directly linked to germination cycles as well.
As far as toxic fallout, maybe radiation should be a thing to deter plant growth and fades over time?
The plants are really memory intensive, I know that Tynan wants to eventually make them not be "things" and instead just have them be like part of the tile background like snow, so adding animal dispersion may bit intensive. That said I'm not sure how much seed is really transported in the waste of herbivores versus just being transported in their fur versus bird/insect/wind/water dispersion.
Quote from: Songleaves on May 20, 2016, 01:35:33 AM
The plants are really memory intensive, I know that Tynan wants to eventually make them not be "things" and instead just have them be like part of the tile background like snow, so adding animal dispersion may bit intensive. That said I'm not sure how much seed is really transported in the waste of herbivores versus just being transported in their fur versus bird/insect/wind/water dispersion.
Quite a bit. Herbivores and plants have co-evolved to be mutually beneficial, though some seeds do disperse on their own, many carry in animal waste. Doing so carries numerous benefits for the plant: ensures the survival of the species, makes it competitive at reclaiming areas, and the waste enshrouding the seeds is good and fertile and will let those seeds grow strong and fast.
Alternative idea :
Have an Event which is a gigantic storm of pollen passing through the map.
A little note : It doesn't need to be harmful to colonist, we have enough of those.
Quote from: Kegereneku on May 20, 2016, 01:00:44 PM
Alternative idea :
Have an Event which is a gigantic storm of pollen passing through the map.
A little note : It doesn't need to be harmful to colonist, we have enough of those.
Actually maybe it should, but just a little. Coughing, sneezing, sometimes vomiting, nothing serious but enough to slow down their work. And increases dirt on floors.
Quote from: Chibiabos on May 20, 2016, 02:38:55 PM
Quote from: Kegereneku on May 20, 2016, 01:00:44 PM
Alternative idea :
Have an Event which is a gigantic storm of pollen passing through the map.
A little note : It doesn't need to be harmful to colonist, we have enough of those.
Actually maybe it should, but just a little. Coughing, sneezing, sometimes vomiting, nothing serious but enough to slow down their work. And increases dirt on floors.
Oh well, maybe some dirt. But frankly you have already infinite possibility of bad event to be made. (Dust Storm for example, which would damage your plant, may kill it if it last too long)
So I though that maybe, maybe we could have a Nice friendly event (and not a Night of the Triffid as you go stargazing).
You mustn't suffer from allergies if you view a pollen storm as a nice, friendly event. >_<
Quote from: Songleaves on May 20, 2016, 08:06:31 PM
You mustn't suffer from allergies if you view a pollen storm as a nice, friendly event. >_<
I've actually had my share of allergies, lot of them.
If its the name the problem, I have no problem with a "Miraculous Growth" Events as a more exotic GOOD events. We really need something better than Pod Drop.
Pollen doesn't actually grow new plants; I think you guys mean something like a ton of seeds being blown in, which is a nice idea.
A pollen storm would probably increase everything outdoors' growing speed (in gameplay terms anyway), which would also be an interesting option, like an alternative to the toxic fallout. I agree though, it should come with a health effect (hayfever) for most colonists. Tasks could be interrupted by sneezing and coughing, they'd have minor pain, and it should lessen their rest effectiveness. It could build up like the toxic fallout, so being exposed for a short time would just be coughing/sneezing, then pain (sinus pain, sore throat), then it affects rest effectiveness. It would also wear off on its own like toxic build up, maybe over about 8 hours for full build up, just enough to ruin your night's sleep.
Quote from: Chibiabos on May 20, 2016, 12:36:13 AM
Its slow, but at least it'd eventually work. At present most maps I play never regrow in their interior after a Toxic Fallout.
Then I'm sure you've also noticed that the animals rarely stray to the interior when all the food is at the map edge. That being said, the combination of this and the seed bank might make it make more sense; a reason for the animals to move inward, as opposed to making them do so abitrarily just to spread seeds.
Now that you say it outloud I feel idiot.
Yeah, we are talking of a massive arrival of seeds.
By the way, did you know that BIRD are a big vector for seeds. ** Cough ** Cough **
Quote from: Kegereneku on May 21, 2016, 04:17:35 PM
Now that you say it outloud I feel idiot.
Yeah, we are talking of a massive arrival of seeds.
By the way, did you know that BIRD are a big vector for seeds. ** Cough ** Cough **
I did, as I mentioned. I wish we had birds in game ... maybe at least one each of a bird-of-prey (eagle/hawk/etc.), a vulture/carrion-eater and maybe a larger herbivorous/omnivorous bird (crane being a large omnivorous bird). They'd be fast and quick, able to fly over hills/mountains. Would be nifty to have release-trained hawks to peck at enemies (would be even more awesome if they could do actual falconry, culling and bringing back small game to their handler such as squirrels, rabbits or smaller birds) :P
I am a firm believer that simple is best. During toxic fallout or fire event, flag a seed on plant destruction, or have that seed just part of plant growth. Invisible to the player, but after rain, trees and plants.
It also could add flavour. Weather affecting maps. Rare rainstorms, deserts bloom, etc.
I honestly can't think of any Rimworld plants that IRL whose seeds are primarily transported by mammals eating them. When acorns are eaten they get destroyed, oaks primarily get their acorns spread via squirrels and certain types of birds. Poplars are primarily wind dispersed. Grass is variable, but usually primarily abiotic, with wild oates having one of the coolest seed dispersion methods out there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0yEZKKlVH0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0yEZKKlVH0)
Most fruits are distributed via stool. That is why the seed bearing portion of the plant has evolved to be so attractive to animals and easily digested. Animals eat the fruit whole, and a hard shell prevents the seed from being digested. Then the animal defecates and seed is sitting inside a wonderfully fertile planting of poo!
I guess only one we got are maybe the raspberry?
Typically I imagine the smaller berries as being primarily dispersed by birds, but yeah I think raspberries are the best one we have on Rimworld for dispersal by mammal stools:
http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/shrub/rubida/all.html#87 (http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/shrub/rubida/all.html#87)
QuoteSeed dispersal: Red raspberry seed is readily dispersed by birds and
mammals [87,100]. After they mature, the highly sought-after fruit
rarely remains on the plants for long [10]. Birds have been observed to
deposit 2,429 to 2,834 viable seeds per acre (6,000 to 7,000/ha)
annually in beech-birch-maple forests of New Hampshire [34]. Mammals
such as mice and chipmunks may be important dispersal agents in some
areas [59].
Is this real life
Quote from: charkesd on May 21, 2016, 10:24:02 PM
Is this real life
I will not let this break into song. Thread emergency interrupt!
But having the map come back more naturally really does help player immersion in a longer game. Special events like flowering after rain in deserts would add some atmosphere as well. The latter just a side effect that could be applied with an environmental recovery mechanic.
Grass seeds have several dispersion methods, including indirectly by animals (it does not include through animal stool): http://homeguides.sfgate.com/grasses-disperse-seeds-67097.html
Quote from: Kegereneku on May 21, 2016, 04:17:35 PM
By the way, did you know that BIRD are a big vector for seeds. ** Cough ** Cough **
Did you know there are no birds in Rimworld ?
Quote from: b0rsuk on May 22, 2016, 02:25:42 PM
Did you know there are no birds in Rimworld ?
That's a crock. Bock, bock, bock ...
Sooo... bump?
Stop talking so much about "Real Life ways to repopulate flora" and focus on the "In-game version of this lol"
There has to be some bits of coding that could help this be possible, but I have yet to find out how... :(
Could well be dispersed over time in the surrounding of parent plant.
Like grass.
Plants matures, seeds, drops in the surrounding squares, new plants grow, perhaps with a need for temperature/season and rain to start it up.
Not 100% of times, of course, but let's say 30%/50% of the seeds germinate ?
Should be easy to adjust in a post-apocalyptic scenario so that the hidden, dormant seeds get a higher chance of starting a new population of plants all over (let's call it a situation of lesser competition, no adult plants, plenty of space and nutrients available... they just find better conditions to grow in a barren area).
That would encourage, as well, to leave some trees untouched to get to 100% growth, perhaps some more to let them produce/disperse seeds.
You cut them early ? Sorry man, no seeds for you !
:)
Quote from: Chibiabos on May 19, 2016, 07:39:31 PM
I think this has been mentioned a few times, but I think the way plants spread could use some tweaking. Anyone who plays on a larger map and goes through a Toxic Fallout will wind up with a map that's completely devoid of any wild plants except at the fringes, large fires out in the wilderness can prove unrecoverable for wild plants as well. As the plants try to repopulate, they'll hit various barriers they won't spread past like hills, rough rock floors, desert sand, marshes/water, etc. This will tend to make the majority of the map's outdoors interior completely barren for the remainder of the game. Could the code for wild plants reseeding to be maybe tweaked a bit to make it easier for wild plants to cast their seeds over unplantable barriers (hills/rock/marsh/etc.)? Really kinda sucks that an event will have everlasting effects like this.
Yea I'm going through beaver infestation right now grr can't find the beavers and they are eating my trees I want replanting of wild plants. Any beaver infestation is bad even songs.
You can plant your own trees in any growing zone, and the Strawberries are the same as the wild Raspberry bushes. Aside from maybe Agave (I haven't had much experiences on maps with Agave), every useful plant can be planted by the player, even dandelions. I'm not sure what it is that you are all looking for, except maybe grass? Planting haygrass is more effective for feeding animals and natural grass is more dangerous than anything because it's highly flammable, so aside from aesthetics you really shouldn't worry about it too much. If you leave it alone, it will grow back within a few seasons anyway
Strawberries are different in a crucial aspect: they don't self-spread beyond their planted areas, neither do dandelions. It isn't really practical to farm the entire map when its been de-foliated by events.
This severely limits foraging for untame herbivores, which in turn means limited hunting for untame carnivores, and your map winds up largely lifeless.
Lack of meat (beyond whatever you already have tamed) can then become a significant effect.
And no, even after many seasons, maps with hills, mountains or boreal maps with waterways never regrow foliage in the interior because the seed distribution doesn't cross those barriers.