Im tired of the pawns going berserk and dying its just too much rng. We need a way to control how colonists deal damage when it comes to melee. I want to maybe allocate 20% of the hits to legs, 20% to arms, & 30% to chest. But instead since we can't control the RNG dice the berserk colonist takes 80% of the hits to the chest and dies before reaching the required pain threshhold to become unconscious.
Humn, I wonder if maybe limbs should stop being usable at say, 25% health, rather than when broken. This would enable disabling without destroying blows for like say, a hit to the leg making them unable to walk, but the leg is still attatched, but just not able to support the persons weight under it. This would make combat vastly different, but also more realistic too, and incidentally make incaps slightly easier. I also think melee should effect stun chance, and pain output, with higher ranks doing slightly higher pain per blow, which would emulate a skilled melee person incapacitating faster, while not necessarily doing crushing, breaking blows.
Perhaps a mid-game solution could be some form of KO gas/spray
That has to be researched (and then produced in a workshop) that could be used as a melee weapöon against berserking colonists (and only against colonists (and maybe prisoners) ... not against animals or enemy humans) and knocks them out with 1-3 successful hits.
Sounds good. I have an idea. There could be an Officer job. Perhaps it could be combined with Warden. So if someone goes berserk, this colonist will automatically seek them out and pacify them. I think thats a very good idea tbh. Its simple, and you make it so if a berserker is downed by an officer the chance of him dying should be much much lower. If the officer is equipped with a ranged weapon he will not use it. If he is equipped with a sharp melee weapon he will not use it. However if you equip him with a club, he will become a mean son of a bitch able to down anyone that fall out of line. You will probably want to make your brawler an officer.
Perhaps if the warden/officer has high social skill, he can calm the berserker without using force.
I'd like the ability to set which body parts each colonists will aim for, each colonist could have their precision strike tab, sort of like the outfit manager tab. Kind of like in fallout 1/2/3/4, for berserk control you could distribute hits done by each colonist so most of the hits don't land on the same body part. This could double for combat purposes too where you could either aim for the head or legs to kill or incapacitate enemy. The time it takes between attacks could be increased to balance this out if precision strikes/shots are used and the accuracy could suffer too for precision attacks.
But one thing is certain I'll take the accuracy and attack cooldown penalty when im trying to NOT kill my colonists, if its 10 pawns vs 1 berserk pawn, there should be no deaths involved.
Quote from: prototype2001 on July 23, 2016, 09:56:03 PM
Im tired of the pawns going berserk and dying its just too much rng.
I stopped reading after this. Berserk is not RNG.
Quote from: Britnoth on July 24, 2016, 05:20:44 AM
Quote from: prototype2001 on July 23, 2016, 09:56:03 PM
Im tired of the pawns going berserk and dying its just too much rng.
I stopped reading after this. Berserk is not RNG.
The RNG part is the berserk colonist getting hit in the same spot and dying.
You don't understand this topic, i guess not reading any of it may have something to do with it.
Thanks for your input and keep us informed.
Tranquilizer darts could be a neolithic solution. Clothing could affect how likely they are to be knocked out. Body armour, kevlar helmets etc. prevent tranq. darts from working but tshirts, jackets etc. do not.
Made with herbal medicine or something?
Tynan has already responded to the concept of non-lethal takedowns in general with the fact it'd be way too overpowered.
Being able to subdue pawns without risk of injury is extremely useful for many scenarios (taking prisoners, downing hostile pawns, ect). If armor/padding effected it then they'd be next to useless for the suggested purpose as mid-game you've probably started gearing up colonists in some semi-capable gear so they don't die as quick in combat (hopefully).
As for hit RNG, that's just how the combat system works. Either upgrade to better ways of disabling (blunt weapons help here a lot for pain thresholds), or stop putting yourself in situations that cause hard breaks to be a constant issue.
Actually, what if, like in real life, headshots had a good chance to knock out? This way a punch in the head will just knock someone down, rather than kill them?
I think berserk simply happens too often and once you're into a messy situation, it happens to repeat one after another, grinding your pawns to death.
Why not limit the berserk reaction to pawns with the violent trait? For balance e.g. make it more common for prisoners to attack a warden together - prisoners with violent trait can still go berser, too.
It also doesn't help beatings with fists can kill pretty easily with toro shots. Really, it would take a pretty severe beating from JUST punches to the torso to actually KILL you, and I'm pretty sure someone would collapse LONG before they died from their generic "torso" falling apart.
Tynan has said that the unarmed damage will need to be looked at. Right now it is just unreasonably effective/lethal.
Losing someone to a berserk colonist by being punched in the torso 8 times (compared to just 6 right now, or 5 if you have a scar) was fairly rare before this alpha.
You can easily be killed by 1 good punch. Never mind 3-4. Though I suppose for gameplay balance reasons....
but don't you have a "attempt arrest" ability with drafted pawns? where you can try to arrest the berzerker? I never tried it, but perhaps if you get 3 ppl on 1 guy you can restrain him to a bed or something without taking/doing too much damage.
How about making blunt weapons inflict more pain but do less damage in general? Like, decrease current damage to 75%, yet increase current pain by 25%? I know it's possible from Glittertech's Orion Corp pacifiers.
Quote from: Lightzy on July 25, 2016, 10:42:13 PM
You can easily be killed by 1 good punch. Never mind 3-4. Though I suppose for gameplay balance reasons....
but don't you have a "attempt arrest" ability with drafted pawns? where you can try to arrest the berzerker? I never tried it, but perhaps if you get 3 ppl on 1 guy you can restrain him to a bed or something without taking/doing too much damage.
This is true, and reflects the fighting skill of the person throwing the punches.
But the same kind of skills applies to taking someone down without hurting.
I can understand the notion that ranged non-lethal take downs would be overpowered in gaining colonists, but in close combat, especially against allies there should be the option for something that every damn cop in the world is trained to do !
Perhaps just have an effect added to the game where colonists melee attacking a berserk colonist will not inflict lethal wounds? Or perhaps inflict them at a lower rate. It wouldn't have to even be something we as a user control. Just the fact that they are apart of your faction could trigger a less lethal response. If your friend is loosing his mind your response is not going to be kill him, at least not at first. So a colonist would naturally try to neutralize their friend in a less harmful way.
This would require some tweeking on many levels. Not exactly sure how it would be done though....
I think it would be nice to have some kind of targeting system a bit like the pipboy from fallout (ie the VATs system from fallout 3 and 4). Every kind of "race" would have its own targeting system.
I would be totally content with a priority system.
Like the response to attack system is now implemented. Flee, Fight, Ignore
There could be Kill, Wound, Capture/Subdue ( with the last one being melee only )
With kill being the combat as it is now,
Wound would slow down the cooldown to express the longer aim time, but would reduce the killshot percentage
Capture/subdue would be for melee trying to k.o the enemy which would be heavily influenced by the weapon carried.
I think the real issue is that the system suggests that our colonists, and humans in general, are a bunch of fragile and unstable individuals. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the mental/emotional aspects of the game. However, there should be a wider spectrum of bonuses and penalties to colonist happiness and unhappiness. As it stands, humans seem to have been all raised in some feminist liberal society composed of individuals with some form of depression or anxiety disorder.
Quote from: Vagabond on July 28, 2016, 12:04:23 AM
I think the real issue is that the system suggests that our colonists, and humans in general, are a bunch of fragile and unstable individuals. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the mental/emotional aspects of the game. However, there should be a wider spectrum of bonuses and penalties to colonist happiness and unhappiness. As it stands, humans seem to have been all raised in some feminist liberal society composed of individuals with some form of depression or anxiety disorder.
Not that I'm disagreeing with you here, but that's a bit of a cheap shot that really can't go anywhere productive.
I agree with the suggestions for non-lethal takedowns being the default approach for subduing friendlies, and I'd even make it an option for trying to take hostiles alive. Maybe a Social check to get a sufficiently wounded/outnumbered enemy to surrender?
Quote from: Vagabond on July 28, 2016, 12:04:23 AM
As it stands, humans seem to have been all raised in some feminist liberal society composed of individuals with some form of depression or anxiety disorder.
I know it's standard internet behavior (sigh) to equate the words "liberal" and "feminism" with "horrible", but at least try to imagine you are discussing with real people who may not share your opinions.
It would probably make sense to add the following two at the same time:
Slots: Ranged Slot, Melee Slot, Grenade Slot
Called shots: Legs Shot, Arms Shot, Head Shot, Torso Shot...
--||-- strikes: as per above
N/A throws: grenades can't be called shots
I think the game is not close enough that it can emulate subduing techniques (unless the pawns are supposed to dance around each other like expert dodgers from dwarf fortress)
I have another idea: Make strikes visible, so that melee weapons show up properly in swings and thrusts. This could come together with a parrying/shielding system. The way this would work is that the graphics are coincidental with each other, stacking up in advance if there's a dodge, strike, etc...
So how would what I mentioned fit with other suggestions?
Tazers, Clubs, Sleep Gas
It fits pretty snugly there, with the different weapon slots.
Want to have a weapon that doesn't fit into any of the slots because you want one of each plus this one? Just add a slot for "inactive" weapons, which is basically just a way to store more weapons on one character.
*added* Still, martial arts like judo would be nice.