Neurotamine is used to produce medicine as well as some drugs.
But there is no way of getting it. (Maybe via trading...)
This is a bug, or so it should be?
Yeah, there's no way to make your own neutroamine. It's a design decision - probably to keep you from producing too much medicine and drugs to an OP game-breaking level. So definitely not a bug.
I've only seen it sold by a trader once, so is it rare?
No. Lots of orbital traders have it.
Neutroamine may available from orbital traders and caravan traders of these types: bulk goods, exotic goods, and pirate merchants. Not combat suppliers.
Quote from: Jimyoda on September 12, 2016, 02:40:28 PM
Yeah, there's no way to make your own neutroamine. It's a design decision - probably to keep you from producing too much medicine and drugs to an OP game-breaking level. So definitely not a bug.
Is there any reference that it's dev's decision?
It can also drop in cargo pods.
When you think about it, not being able to craft neutroamine is a good thing.
Quote from: Dinoabunai on September 12, 2016, 03:37:22 PM
Is there any reference that it's dev's decision?
https://ludeon.com/blog/2016/08/alpha-15-tutorial-and-drugs-released/ -
You can now produce medicine from herbal medicine, neutroamine (a precursor chemical
you buy), and cloth. Requires research.
Yes, it's deliberate. It balances the economy, and it makes trade meaningful.
I'm not sure why some people assume everything should be makeable with zero trading. Trade is an essential, core part of the game. You can't skip it any more easily than you can skip farming.
It's a 12-person colony; you can make any medieval tech on your own but for advanced modern-like drugs you need to trade. Haven't y'all seen Breaking Bad?
Quote from: Tynan on September 12, 2016, 11:20:26 PM
Yes, it's deliberate. It balances the economy, and it makes trade meaningful.
I'm not sure why some people assume everything should be makeable with zero trading. Trade is an essential, core part of the game. You can't skip it any more easily than you can skip farming.
It's a 12-person colony; you can make any medieval tech on your own but for advanced modern-like drugs you need to trade. Haven't y'all seen Breaking Bad?
Perfectly stated, that last part was the best though.
Quote from: Tynan on September 12, 2016, 11:20:26 PM
I'm not sure why some people assume everything should be makeable with zero trading.
I think it's because some of us came to this as a survival game rather than a tower defence or Civilization-lite. I know I was surprised to see how much constant contact there is with external forces in the game. I was anticipating more of a squad-baed Stranded Deep-in-space when I got RimWorld, where I'd scrounge for supplies to scratch my way up from neo-lithic to space-faring while trying to avoid starvation, frostbite, and insanity borne of isolation and despair. Instead of having to agonize over whether to eat the corn now and survive or starve over the winter and hope we don't die so there's something to plant in the spring, which I thought would be the sort of decisions I'd be making, I'm given an infinite amount of anything I care to plant, and then face regular tower defence mini-games in defence of it.
Not saying the game is bad, just very different from what I expected. I expect others may be the same. If I had a choice, I'd remove all trading from the game, myself, and make basic survival much harder.
I think the question of how much trade is part of the game is separate from how much combat is part of the game. One could eliminate trade and have a strong emphasis on combat (see: real tower defense games). Or, one could eliminate combat and have a strong emphasis on trade.
If you do want to remove traders entirely that'd be an interesting and very easy-to-make mod!
Quote from: Tynan on September 12, 2016, 11:20:26 PM
Yes, it's deliberate. It balances the economy, and it makes trade meaningful.
I'm not sure why some people assume everything should be makeable with zero trading. Trade is an essential, core part of the game. You can't skip it any more easily than you can skip farming.
It's a 12-person colony; you can make any medieval tech on your own but for advanced modern-like drugs you need to trade. Haven't y'all seen Breaking Bad?
TIL: Charge Rifles and Power Armor are medieval tech in RimWorld.
Jokes aside, Malariblock feels pretty underpowered for the fact it takes 5 Neutroamine to make (and isn't really worth buying, either), especially when compared to Medicine.
Between Malaria outbreaks being basically random and that the drug only lasts 5 days, and that Medicine can both be used to help recover from Malaria and everything else that it's useful for instead -- at 1/5th the rate of trader-only materials and not disappearing after 5 days, to boot.
There's just really no reason I can see to make/buy Malariblock as it currently is. Even if you have an exceptionally old/highly damaged kidney(s) pawn who will probably die to Malaria even with Medicine being used to treat them, you would be better off just stocking up on some Luciferium for them. It costs 2.5x as much as Malariblock, but lasts just as long, has a host of other benefits, saves against all other diseases, and is just as likely to be stocked by traders at around half the quantity of Malariblock, with the only drawbacks being that running out is inevitably death (which even then can be mitigated with a Cryopod) and that you can't ever craft it.
Would make more sense if Malariblock either lasted for a few seasons at its current crafting cost, or if it instantly/rapidly cured Malaria at either the same or an increased cost.
That or making Medicine cost more Neutroamine, I guess.
Quote from: Tynan on September 12, 2016, 11:20:26 PM
Yes, it's deliberate. It balances the economy, and it makes trade meaningful.
I'm not sure why some people assume everything should be makeable with zero trading. Trade is an essential, core part of the game. You can't skip it any more easily than you can skip farming.
It's a 12-person colony; you can make any medieval tech on your own but for advanced modern-like drugs you need to trade. Haven't y'all seen Breaking Bad?
Well, OK then. But is there a reference in-game that you can't produce it and should buy it instead?
Quote from: Tynan on September 13, 2016, 12:16:19 AM
I think the question of how much trade is part of the game is separate from how much combat is part of the game. One could eliminate trade and have a strong emphasis on combat (see: real tower defense games). Or, one could eliminate combat and have a strong emphasis on trade.
If you do want to remove traders entirely that'd be an interesting and very easy-to-make mod!
I expected it to be craftable because virtually everything else is. I'm not saying everything
should be craftable, merely that I've built up that expectation from the rest of the game. If I can build charge rifles and power armor, not making personal shields feels strange. If I can craft components, not being able to make neutramine feels strange.
I'd be interested to see the design decision (which I happen to like!) enforced more evenly, then it wouldn't feel so surprising. Remove the crafting of charge rifles + power armor would be a good start - they feel further out of colony-level scope than a particular chemical.
if you really need it to be craftable, mods can help u there.
people like different playstyles. thats why mods exist.
Medicine wasn't craftable before either. Now it is, but needs a non-craftable resource. That doesn't look like much of a change first, but neutroamine is also used as an ingredient in other drugs.
I think it would be neat if neurostuff could be produced, but only through a gross process of boiling down, and processing dead bodies, so its unpleasant, unhealthy, and unclean, but can produce it pretty cheap, with the downside of people being miserable doing it.
Quote from: mumblemumble on September 13, 2016, 01:29:26 PM
I think it would be neat if neurostuff could be produced, but only through a gross process of boiling down, and processing dead bodies, so its unpleasant, unhealthy, and unclean, but can produce it pretty cheap, with the downside of people being miserable doing it.
Now that sounds like a great mod!
Quote from: mumblemumble on September 13, 2016, 01:29:26 PM
I think it would be neat if neurostuff could be produced, but only through a gross process of boiling down, and processing dead bodies, so its unpleasant, unhealthy, and unclean, but can produce it pretty cheap, with the downside of people being miserable doing it.
Neat idea. +1
Was about to hit post, then I just realized something horribly fantastic. Drugee colonists would literally kill their comrades for drugs when the cupboards have no more drug-making ingredients. Oh boy. Now that's life (and death) on a rimworld.
I dont like the fact, that its not possible to make your own medicine. I too thought this was a survival game. And the colony should be able to sustain itself and evolve completely on its own. They can build space ships and energy weapons but are unable to make their own med stuff? Thats unrealistic imho.
And its limiting the sandboxy feel I like about the game. The devs should really think about that "forcing players to a certain play style" - minecraft did very well without that.
Just my 2ct.
I think a good way to have both the ability to craft everything or nearly everything but make trading very important would be using the research tree and making specialization a possibly. Such as maybe making it very difficult to get all possible technologies.
It would be cool if my colony could manufacture drugs but yours can make charged rifles and it would be a huge cost sink to try to and do both. Hope you guys understand what I mean.
You can get Neutroamine as cheap as 6-7 silver each from one of the traders; forgot if it was the Exotic one though. It's one of the few consumable things worth spending silver on - Chocolate being another. Personally I wish Tynan would come up with even more such trade-only commodities.
However, I understand for certain scenario's, personal gameplay preferences and various other reasons it's still nice to be able to craft it. But I don't think it should be changed in vanilla. With the mod I uploaded today (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=26108.0) there should be three alternative mods now that allows you to craft neutroamine I believe.
Quote from: ShadowTani on September 14, 2016, 11:15:02 PM
You can get Neutroamine as cheap as 6-7 silver each from one of the traders; forgot if it was the Exotic one though. It's one of the few consumable things worth spending silver on - Chocolate being another. Personally I wish Tynan would come up with even more such trade-only commodities.
However, I understand for certain scenario's, personal gameplay preferences and various other reasons it's still nice to be able to craft it. But I don't think it should be changed in vanilla. With the mod I uploaded today (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=26108.0) there should be three alternative mods now that allows you to craft neutroamine I believe.
Well neutroamine is a give take thing, i agree it shouldnt be craftable right away even with reasearch, because lets be honest some chems and drugs wont be produceable by a small colony pretty much peroid, many things need other things to make them, I.E tools to make tools, many modern drugs require special labs tons of chems plants and christ knows what else, now one idea is having a crafting table you can buy directly from traders along with special reasearch tables to learn how to grow special plants to make the drug or perhaps even buy bulk chems for cheap but have them be toxic and add a -15 to -25 mood buff and make the colonist sick as hell unless you get special very rapidly degradeing clothing that costs a lot of money and need it in a sealed room.
Honestly i would love to see production benches and such sold by traders that have upgrades and special benefits but require specilized components only able to be bought from traders if they break down, perhaps even shielded benches that will work off battery power in a solar flare or even hydroponics benches that do.
Would make trading a much larger part of the game.
I actually love the idea that neutroamine could be milked from boomalopes, that would give you a way to get it, just a very inconvenient one.
Quote from: rollo on September 15, 2016, 03:09:58 PM
I actually love the idea that neutroamine could be milked from boomalopes, that would give you a way to get it, just a very inconvenient one.
And a very dangerous one. Even if you kept them in a room somewhere out of the way, any kind of fire/explosion/whatever would instantly become a quasi-nuclear blast which would wipe out your whole herd.
The tighter the herd is, the worse that aspect is, but the more spread out it is the more likely some random errant thing is to set them off.
Add to that low production (one at a time, once a season to once a year, somewhere in there), and you'd be able to set up a supply, but it'd be a minor one at best, unless you REALLY invested in it. Which ultimately would be comparable to setting up any major industry to fund buying the stuff in the first place.
Quote from: rollo on September 15, 2016, 03:09:58 PM
I actually love the idea that neutroamine could be milked from boomalopes, that would give you a way to get it, just a very inconvenient one.
Wow that's a great idea. Trading is still important then, unless you want a herd of highly explosive animal stock. Also adds some interesting lore to the game.
(If that came across as sarcastic like I think it sounds, no I am being sincere not sarcastic.)
Plus it's very strange that colonists CAN build spaceships, produce complicated drugs and combat-stims, make EMP weapons, but neurotamine... it's just beyond their understanding. It's wierd.
Quote from: Tynan on September 12, 2016, 11:20:26 PM
Yes, it's deliberate. It balances the economy, and it makes trade meaningful.
Making trade meaningful by forcing you to buy a required ingredient just makes the research and production of your own drugs meaningless.
Why go about setting up your own drug or medicine production if you need to trade for a key ingredient, and the traders that sell it also come with their own drugs or medicine for sale? As do raiders?
I would suggest that either the ingredients need to be produced yourself, OR the availability of drugs from traders needs a serious rethink to make drug production more than a novelty.
The affects of the drugs themselves are also borked as hell right now. Beer is a massive waste of time. Smokeleaf is easy to use but gets people killed. While luciferium, go juice and wake up are god tier items that turn your pawns into supermen.
I think it might be interesting if everything were available/craftable in the game, but not necessarily in the same biome, so trading still required. So e.g. if you want to make your own chocolate, start in a tropical area, otherwise you'll need to trade for it.
Quote from: bclewis on September 19, 2016, 06:03:07 PM
I think it might be interesting if everything were available/craftable in the game, but not necessarily in the same biome, so trading still required. So e.g. if you want to make your own chocolate, start in a tropical area, otherwise you'll need to trade for it.
Each Biome having a unique resource to craft an otherwise uncraftable product would be neat.
Alternatively though, maybe make it unethical to acquire? Either harvest from the dead or make it an infection that you need to keep people sick to harvest it. A raw good that can fight back would help keep things from being too easy.
Otherwise it needs to be made in zero-g or something to explain why traders can have it but you cant make it.
Now that I have seen it in game I have to say, You can either buy the medicine out right or buy the thing to make the medicine with the right research and worktable. So what's the point? You could just as easily make the production of the drug difficult so that trade is easier or more important rather then refusing to allow it and having a system of Purchase Drug vs Purchase and then Make the Drug.
A bunch if effort for nothing in my opinion. You can make trade important without out right forcing it.
To clarify, what the point in buying the ingredients instead of buying the medicine? There seams to be plenty of drug to go around anyway and prevents an entire play style or three.
I disagree about neutroamine. I actually think it is too available as is.
In previous builds, I relied heavily on herbal medicine throughout the entirety of my colony. In A15, I had a 500+ stockpile of medicine fairly early on in the colony and never got lower than this.
If you are able to cheaply craft neutroamine, this is going to greatly reduce the risk associated with health problems.
I'm not at my gaming PC right now, but offhand I think I typically pay 7-8 silver for a neutroamine, where a single unit of medicine can cost 35+ silver. 3 cloth and one herbal medicine are free to grow, so you are getting very cheap medicine even if you aren't able to produce 100% of it on your own.
Some chemical reactions to produce certain medicines require heating to >1000 deg C and applying high pressure etc, it is believable to me that a rimworld colony would be capable of producing some technology like a cooler but not able to produce complex medicine.
What about being able to extract a neutro precursor at a low rate(from individual animals) from Boomalopes/rats which you'd then turn into neutro at the drug table. Afterall the description from the Boomalope is "Engineered for chemicals production, the boomalope grows a large sac of volatile chemicals on its back. Though it is weak and fragile for its size, other animals have learned to avoid it because of the huge explosion it produces when it dies."
It'd also introduce a risk/reward thing. You'd get a steady supply of neutro as the reward, with the risk being, if anything goes wrong with your farmed boomers,old age, accident etc etc, it could spell potential disaster.
Quote from: RayvenQ on September 29, 2016, 03:31:34 AM
What about being able to extract a neutro precursor at a low rate(from individual animals) from Boomalopes/rats which you'd then turn into neutro at the drug table. Afterall the description from the Boomalope is "Engineered for chemicals production, the boomalope grows a large sac of volatile chemicals on its back. Though it is weak and fragile for its size, other animals have learned to avoid it because of the huge explosion it produces when it dies."
It'd also introduce a risk/reward thing. You'd get a steady supply of neutro as the reward, with the risk being, if anything goes wrong with your farmed boomers,old age, accident etc etc, it could spell potential disaster.
It's already been done. Here's the mod:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=26108.0 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=26108.0)
Quote from: delheit on September 28, 2016, 08:37:34 AM
To clarify, what the point in buying the ingredients instead of buying the medicine? There seams to be plenty of drug to go around anyway and prevents an entire play style or three.
To me, it's the same as grilling a steak vs going to a steakhouse. I can buy a nice ribbeye for less than $20 and grilling it costs me next to nothing. If I went to a nice restaurant, I might end up spending $60 or more for that same piece of meat.
So you can spend ~40 silver and buy medicine straight up, or you can spend ~6 silver on neutroamine, grow the rest of the stuff yourself, and have a TON of medicien available for a little bit of work and about only 15% of the cost.
I think a good balance would be you can craft about everything but for stuff like nutroamine, power armor, charge rifles, ect.. it should be significantly cheaper to buy them from traders. So you would not want to make netro your self, but you can if you need it and cant get a trader.
there is a mod to produce neutroamine.... just be aware that to produce any useful amounts, you basically have a giant explosive in your base.... a selfreplicating bomb that requires a lot of food