From the start I seemed to acquire at least 1 charge rifle every pirate raid, later on getting about 5 per raid. It seemed very uncommon for the raiders to be equipped with survival rifles, shotguns and LMG's and I haven't even seen a single one use an assault rifle (I was playing tribal start, Randy Extreme and most of the raids have been sappers/all melee/tribals. Its possible this problem is because of the difficulty and lack of normal attackers)
This ruins the balance because charge rifles are just in general better than all other guns (except sometimes snipers). After nearly 4 years, a colony total wealth of 275,000 and 23 colonist, instead of having varied soldiers with assault rifles, survival rifles, LMG's, Heavy SMG's, shotguns, I just have everyone use the superior charge rifles, which feels kind of boring. And unlike armor which deteriorates and can be damaged by attacks, as long as guns are equipped or indoors they can easily last the entirety of the game at 100%.
Anyone else notice this too? I think it would be fair to have the charge rifles be a late game weapon used mostly by power armored pirates. BTW this isn't me complaining about the difficulty, I just want to see more varied firearms in combat.
Yeah, they seem to be too universally good. The only downside is the short range, which is bad in some situations. So I keep some sniper rifles and assault rifles around. Those are also great weapons for hunters.
The only other weapons I use at that stage is a minigun for some of the bad shooters when outdoors and replace that with a shotgun for indoors (when fighting insects).
But the other weapons I only use at the beginning of the game
Yeah, you're right. I'm rebalancing weapons overall and I will be keeping this in mind.
I must be super unlucky, then. I've literally never seen one in-game, except on a trader, more expensive than I'm willing to pay.
Quote from: Tynan on September 23, 2016, 09:28:20 PM
Yeah, you're right. I'm rebalancing weapons overall and I will be keeping this in mind.
Noooo my glorious charge riflesssssss....
Jk, I get endless clubs.
Nah, there's definitely an increase in the number of charge rifles at the higher difficulties. On my normal Randy game, I had 3 charge rifles after 2 years. On my Intense Cassandra game, I had 3 within less than a year.
Even on Cassandra Rough I could have 8 people with charge rifles now. Just another raid with three of them, though they were all aweful/poor. But that entire raid was half-assed. In any case there isn't really a point in researching them and building them yourself.
They're worth building yourself if (a) you have lots of plasteel lying around and can't be bothered to build a ship and (b) you want to use *good* rifles instead of the shoddy/damaged ones the pirates drop.
Building them is more reliable of course, but I usually have enough pirates dropping good quality rifles in perfect or near perfect condition. Maybe if you have one of those huge colonies, but I tend to have less than a dozen people.
I've seen the same happening in Let's Play videos
The problem with charge rifles isn't just that they are pretty powerful and relatively common/easy to make. The problem is that there are no workable alternatives. The following weapons are what I consider actually usable given the difficulty of the game in general and the toughness of mechs in particular:
A few Snipers are good to force enemies to come closer and have a response to enemy snipers. Also they are good against mechs and when hunting dangerous animals. They suffer from low dps and a dead zone, so they cannot be used as a mass infantry weapon.
Survival Rifles are an okay substitute and have no "dead zone", but are overall too low on dps and still too low on punch to be more than a stop-gap solution until better stuff is available for everyone.
Bows are a way to make your guys have a decent ranged weapon that is almost free before you have enough loot/tech.
Charge Rifles pack a solid punch, are very strong against un/weakly armored foes and are plentiful and not that expensive to craft. Their only downside is one that is shared by half of the weapons not listed up there and manageable in solid defensive positions.
And, well, that's it.
Everything else sucks.
Since even medium sized animals have a bazillion hp, quite some opponents have decent armor and animals are hard to hit, those pistols, smgs, assault rifles and miniguns simply deal too low damage. Most of them suffer from cannot-penetrate-mech-armor-syndrome heavily. The shotguns are almost there because they pack decent punch, decent dps and good accuracy - but they cannot even be used to safely hunt a potentially aggressive animal because you are dead before firing the second shot.
A full weapon rebalance is very much needed.
Agreed, the problem is not so much that charge rifles are awesome as that all the other weapons (with the exception of sniper rifles and survival rifles) are awful.
The assault rifle and the LMG are the worst offenders. Assault rifle damage should be the same as the hunting rifle -- especially if it's an AK-47. So should LMG damage, and the LMG should be capable of putting out 100 rounds per minute without overheating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCwjRfzlHng
The operator will probably wear out before the rifle does... although you will want someone else carrying all the ammo and the spare barrels.
_ Charged Rifle is the best weapon for common shooters although it lacks of range and good accuracy like Assault Rifle. The key is damage ! 13 damage per shot is just insane, 3 shots per burst, means 39 damage potentially. While other weapon lacks of damage vs armored foe, or very high hp monster.
_ Survival rifle is low on dps except vs human withou armor, because the rate of fire is subpar. Charged Rifle is a all round weapon, very good accuracy, long range, but the damage per shot is 7, it's just some scratches to centipedes or thrumbo, even muffalo could withstand those damage. LMG is good, but still too low accuracy, mini gun is for non shooting skill colonists because of it's hardcode in missing accuracy at range.
_ So we have no choice but Charged Rifle, the best dps Rifle. Even though it's pretty short range and so so accuracy, the dps is just so high and enough to pierce through high armored foes.
_ The game needs more weapons, rifles etc to fill the gaps between bows and guns, and between Assault rifle, Charged rifle and Sniper rifle.
p/s: i personally love to add AK-47 into the game lol
Maybe weapons need to use ammo. Small ammo for pistols and auto pistols , shotgun shells , medium ammo for assault rifles and large ammo for snipers, and charge packs for charge rifles . Maybe grenades and molotovs could have a limited number of uses too
small and medium ammo made from steel
Large made from steel and plasteel
charge ammo made from plasteel and uranium at a new charge station bench
then a new piece of clothing , the ammo belt could be made , otherwise youd need stockpiles of ammo nearby
Are they? Maybe I haven't gotten to that wealth level yet (I don't pay much attention), but during late-game, I usually have at least one charge rifle per raid/siege.
Really? I'm in about my third year and I've only been seeing them since like, middle of year 2? And it's still only one or two per raid.
I have a ballistic, "realistic" weapon pack which afaik should only make them rarer, with the bigger variety of conventional firearms. But I still get 1-3 per pirate raid.
I think Outlanders favor conventional ballistic weapons (I could be totally wrong, but that's my impression) whilst Tribals of course just bring Neolithic.
Well..... given that its the year 3000 or so, Lee Enfields, Uzi's and M16's should be as rare as 1000 year old guns today, and Charged Rifles (assuming they are the 'current' tech in game) should be as plentiful as AK-47 (variants) are today..
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on September 26, 2016, 12:22:44 AM
Well..... given that its the year 3000 or so, Lee Enfields, Uzi's and M16's should be as rare as 1000 year old guns today, and Charged Rifles (assuming they are the 'current' tech in game) should be as plentiful as AK-47 (variants) are today..
Hmm... I can see your point. I guess it depends on the rate of human expansion; often the limiting factor for the mass production of goods isn't technological know-how, but rather industrial base. If humans are expanding slowly relative to their industrial base, you're completely right; we should see high-tech EVERYTHING! If, however, humanity is expanding about as fast as they can build ships, then one would expect significantly less complicated devices to be the norm.
For instance, today we have the technical know-how to build flying cars (http://www.aeromobil.com/#s-video), but we lack the industrial base to make it economically viable. A more relevant example is self-aiming rifles (http://www.tracking-point.com/), which exist and are therefore possible, but again due to the lack of an industrial base to provide inexpensive components, doesn't exist on any wide scale.
So I guess the question I'm left with is one about Rimworld lore: how fast are people expanding? Are Urbworlds the norm, and Rimworlds just for the crazy pilgrims and unfortunate shipwrecks? Or do rim worlds outnumber developed ones ten to one, making the frontier the norm, and civilization only rare patches?
Hmm... I wonder if Tynan will weigh in on this. :p Nah, prolly more fun to let us debate and see what fan theories we come up with. ^ ^
Quote from: christhekiller on September 25, 2016, 08:24:11 PM
Really? I'm in about my third year and I've only been seeing them since like, middle of year 2? And it's still only one or two per raid.
same, it varies per playtrough, but it seems like that there is little middle ground here
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on September 26, 2016, 12:22:44 AM
Well..... given that its the year 3000 or so, Lee Enfields, Uzi's and M16's should be as rare as 1000 year old guns today, and Charged Rifles (assuming they are the 'current' tech in game) should be as plentiful as AK-47 (variants) are today..
Yes if you want to look at it from a realism point of view, but gameplay is more important than realism. You can also argue that thousands of years from now laser weaponry will be developed that is super accurate and disintegrates targets on hit and everyone has all these different types of super guns, but that would just make for boring gameplay. The best gear shouldn't be available immediately and so easily.
Tech level should determine the armament of attackers. Seeing how common drop pods are it makes sense that the people in them commonly have charge rifles. But you're right that the best weapon in the game shouldn't be so common. There should be rare weapons BETTER than the CR!
Quote from: Shurp on September 26, 2016, 04:49:38 PM
Tech level should determine the armament of attackers. Seeing how common drop pods are it makes sense that the people in them commonly have charge rifles. But you're right that the best weapon in the game shouldn't be so common. There should be rare weapons BETTER than the CR!
Huh, I really like that point of view. This goes double since, at least the way I play, my colony inevitably ends up making charge rifles, which would seem to imply that they're fairly common. Your idea of having weapons BETTER than charge rifles would provide much rarer ultra-weapons. Good idea, Shurp!
I see where you are coming from with the industrial base arguement, but when a colonist can bash together a solar panel, geothermal generator, a planet to space radio or literally all the parts needed to make a spaceship with nothing more then whatever that flashing tool is, I don't see why they couldn't make what ever their times equivalent of a AK-47 is (assuming it's the Charge Rifle).
I could actually see with all of the weapons in game having some fluffier names given to them, and a reskinning. I really doesnt make any sense at all for them to be using 20th/21st century guns. In Firefly, Malcom uses a pistol that looks very similar to a 18/19th century six shooter, but it's a actually a gauss/coil gun that holds six slugs. The props name is 'Moses Brothers Self-Defense Engine Frontier Model B' obviously inspired by the 'Colt 'Peacemaker' Single Action Frontier Six Shooter, Model P'.
Instead of a 'survival rifle' it could be a 'Rimington Frontier Varmint Rail, Model 2886', with some fluff about it being a old-timey railgun. A 'pistol' could be a 'M2911 'Tribalstopper' Army Special'. A 'PDW' could be a ''Shaved' Warg Personal Liberator', with some fluff about it being a coilgun that shaves a metal rod for ammo (Warg=Colt).
Following this the lesser guns would still be 'old' but only a few hundred year, and so comparable with current ingame tech and futuristic. Given the tech the colonist have access too, rail/coil guns would be an easy first step - it's just propelling metal with magnets. It would probably be easier for them to do that then make gunpowder.
This would just bring all the weapons together so they feel like they are comparable on the battle field. Then Charged Rifles COULD be the King of the firefight, but modern weapons like they would be rare out on the rim. People would have to make do with leaver action rail guns, double barrel sonic disrupters and six shooting coil cannons, which would be a lot more powerful then their 18/19/20/21st century counterparts, and so could be made more on par with the Charged Rifle then they currently are.
Why do people in Warhammer 40k use cartridge-based firearms, including a literal M2 Browning HMG, unchanged for 38,000 years ( I am not kidding. The Heavy Stubber is a M2 Browning), as well as literal black powder weapons, when they could have the option to use laser rifles, guns that shoot miniature suns at people, and MARTIAN DEATH RAYS?
Because the older guns are cheap, to make and to repair, can be made in lower-tech facilities compared to the "modern" stuff, and , well ...... they work. A bullet to the face is still a bullet to the face.
For the person talking about railguns and such, you do realize that they are stupidly expensive to make, right? The rails need to be re-machined after almost every shot, the ammunition has to be made to exacting specifications, etc. You can make an assault rifle in a shitty machine shop with poor tools.
"It's just propelling metal with magnets", is kinda like " it is just fusing atoms together, right?" -eyeroll-
You apparently have no idea how complicated things really are.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 10:51:28 AM
Why do people in Warhammer 40k use cartridge-based firearms, including a literal M2 Browning HMG, unchanged for 38,000 years ( I am not kidding. The Heavy Stubber is a M2 Browning), as well as literal black powder weapons, when they could have the option to use laser rifles, guns that shoot miniature suns at people, and MARTIAN DEATH RAYS
...... Because it's a fictional universe and they could field literally whatever they want?
Also, yeah when your culture has handheld tools that can build anything, that are probably based on some crazy similar tech, it would be easier to make rail guns then it would be gun powder. One is utilising the tech you have access to in a difference way (assuming the wonder tool uses a awesome battery and electricty in some way, and isn't gun powder powered), while the other is creating a chemical you don't have, to put in a case you have to make, to cap with another material you have to find, to put into a weapon that uses ancient tech. If you are in the futur and have access to awesome batteries and super magnets, yeah I reckon it would be easier making a rail gun then a powder gun.
Any 'problems' rail guns have now, are completely irrelevant - it's 1000 years in the future. That's like a 10th century surgeon saying that heart surgery is impossible because the person would run out of the four essential life fluids.
It isn't just about how modern the tech it - it's about how familiar your are with it. By your reasoning you should be able to make a longbow in ya backyard in half a day with no reference. I bet you would be able to make a reasonable gun before you could make a reasonable bow simply because the technology used in a gun is current, and at least somewhat social memory. I know the chemistry and mechanics behind a bullet and gun. I have no idea they type of wood, how to arrange the grain, how to prepair it, how to optimally attach string, optimal bow lengths etc etc. give me an afternoon and I could make a zipgun that would kill, but I would probably have made a bow that would hurt.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on September 27, 2016, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 10:51:28 AM
Why do people in Warhammer 40k use cartridge-based firearms, including a literal M2 Browning HMG, unchanged for 38,000 years ( I am not kidding. The Heavy Stubber is a M2 Browning), as well as literal black powder weapons, when they could have the option to use laser rifles, guns that shoot miniature suns at people, and MARTIAN DEATH RAYS
So is Rimworld.
...... Because it's a fictional universe and they could field literally whatever they want?
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 01:30:40 PM
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on September 27, 2016, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 10:51:28 AM
Why do people in Warhammer 40k use cartridge-based firearms, including a literal M2 Browning HMG, unchanged for 38,000 years ( I am not kidding. The Heavy Stubber is a M2 Browning), as well as literal black powder weapons, when they could have the option to use laser rifles, guns that shoot miniature suns at people, and MARTIAN DEATH RAYS
So is Rimworld.
...... Because it's a fictional universe and they could field literally whatever they want?
A: ya fucked up ya quote.
B: I'm not saying they should use particular guns, because realisum (using 40k as a reference?). I'm saying they should use interesting guns because it's the year 3000 so it should seem like it. If everyone is going to use Lee Enfields and M-16's, why bother to set it in the future at all? Instead of 'Rimworld' it could be 'Shipwreaked 1987' and I wouldn't be able to tell.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on September 27, 2016, 01:23:04 PM
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 10:51:28 AM
Why do people in Warhammer 40k use cartridge-based firearms, including a literal M2 Browning HMG, unchanged for 38,000 years ( I am not kidding. The Heavy Stubber is a M2 Browning), as well as literal black powder weapons, when they could have the option to use laser rifles, guns that shoot miniature suns at people, and MARTIAN DEATH RAYS
...... Because it's a fictional universe and they could field literally whatever they want?
Also, yeah when your culture has handheld tools that can build anything, that are probably based on some crazy similar tech, it would be easier to make rail guns then it would be gun powder. One is utilising the tech you have access to in a difference way (assuming the wonder tool uses a awesome battery and electricty in some way, and isn't gun powder powered), while the other is creating a chemical you don't have, to put in a case you have to make, to cap with another material you have to find, to put into a weapon that uses ancient tech. If you are in the futur and have access to awesome batteries and super magnets, yeah I reckon it would be easier making a rail gun then a powder gun.
Any 'problems' rail guns have now, are completely irrelevant - it's 1000 years in the future. That's like a 10th century surgeon saying that heart surgery is impossible because the person would run out of the four essential life fluids.
It isn't just about how modern the tech it - it's about how familiar your are with it. By your reasoning you should be able to make a longbow in ya backyard in half a day with no reference. I bet you would be able to make a reasonable gun before you could make a reasonable bow simply because the technology used in a gun is current, and at least somewhat social memory. I know the chemistry and mechanics behind a bullet and gun. I have no idea they type of wood, how to arrange the grain, how to prepair it, how to optimally attach string, optimal bow lengths etc etc. give me an afternoon and I could make a zipgun that would kill, but I would probably have made a bow that would hurt.
They aren't using miraculous hand tools, they are using hammers, axes, welding torches. Do you even pay attention in-game? Take a listen to some of the sounds they make whenever the colonists work at a task. Chop down trees? Axe sounds. Mine some rock? Pickaxe. Build something? Hammer and saw. Work on something mechanical? Welding torch. All tools that would likely be a part of any colonization effort, and
specifically mentioned as existing in the fiction primer.
The colonists also
don't have access to "awesome batteries" and "super magnets". First of all, where are you seeing magnets in-game? As far as I can tell, there are
none. As for batteries, they actually kind of suck. Generally, the trend for more advanced technology is to get more compact and more efficient. Batteries that take up the same amount of space as a bed and explode on an alarmingly-regular basis are not "awesome". They sound like cribbed-together junk. Which is what they are. Modern batteries are more efficient.
I can build a bow in my backyard, actually. A bow is far simpler to make than a firearm, which in turn is far simpler to make than a railgun.
Take a look at the fiction primer of Rimworld sometime, and you will realize that a large part of the theme of Rimworld is how technology is unsustainable. The whole reason there are tribes and "modern" people on the Rimworlds is
specifically because they couldn't sustain all the superawesome shit they had on Glitterworlds. It is why components and breakdowns were added, and why there are specifically non-powered versions of almost every workbench in the game. If you can't support your current level of technology, TECH DOWN. Stop using DEW and use cartridge-based firearms. Stop using firearms and use bows and arrows.
You might be able to crib together a zipgun, but could you
sustain it? Make new parts for it when they break, make new ammunition (not find new ammunition, but make new ones)? Chances are almost overwhelmingly likely
no.
A railgun, or other advanced technology for that matter, is that multiplied by 100000. Hell, "modern" technology in and of itself is unsustainable. Can you build a refrigerator, without the internet or a guide telling you how? How about a windmill? A heater? You do realize that, if society were to somehow collapse in real life, humanity would be back to the Iron Age within a couple of generations, and we
would never be able to have another Industrial Revolution? We used up all the resources.
I consider myself pretty familiar with most examples of modern technology, but that doesn't mean I could reproduce it. I know the mechanics behind a computer, but I couldn't build one out of scrap. I know the mechanics behind an internal combustion engine, but I couldn't build one from scrap.
Such as it is in Rimworld. The colonists come from planets with advanced technology (in some cases. In many cases, they come from worlds with similar technology to our own, or
even less),
but that doesn't mean they know how to build it, or how it functions Again,
sustainability and reproduction is keyOh, and the setting is clearly in the future. Are you missing the space ships flying by, the mechanic killer-bots, and the Directed Energy Weapons?
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on September 27, 2016, 01:57:27 PM
B: I'm not saying they should use particular guns, because realisum (using 40k as a reference?). I'm saying they should use interesting guns because it's the year 3000 so it should seem like it. If everyone is going to use Lee Enfields and M-16's, why bother to set it in the future at all? Instead of 'Rimworld' it could be 'Shipwreaked 1987' and I wouldn't be able to tell.
Well the guns have been renamed in the newer alphas to more generic names like lee enfields to survival rifle, and m16 to assault rifle ect. so these guns are probably not weapons brought from 20/21th century earth. They were most likely manufactured on the rimworld by factions/corporations who's tech level does not exceed the 20th century.
One of the interesting things about rimworld is the colliding time periods. You have the tribals with primitive technology, Raiders with modern weapons, and super advanced mechiniods. So maybe it would be cool to have an advanced faction with advanced weapons.
I'm not sure if you're arguing you want laser/rail/particle guns to replace all gunpowdered weapons or if you want both. If gunpowdered weapons were replaced by the future guns, would the damage output be the same? If yes then it's just a reskin and not very interesting.
If the future guns are more damaging/accurate/faster then that just throws off the balance of the game completely. Tribals have less deadly weaponry than pirates but they make up for that weakness by having 2x as many soldiers. Would futuristic factions have less soldiers than gunpowdered factions to balance it out? Then once a futuristic faction is defeated during a raid your colony has probably collected a bunch of future guns. This will obsolete your gunpowdered weapons making them as useless as bows are now.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on September 27, 2016, 10:41:47 AM
I see where you are coming from with the industrial base arguement, but when a colonist can bash together a solar panel, geothermal generator, a planet to space radio or literally all the parts needed to make a spaceship with nothing more then whatever that flashing tool is, I don't see why they couldn't make what ever their times equivalent of a AK-47 is (assuming it's the Charge Rifle).
A good point; I hadn't even considered that. Given that a colony can manufacture their own charge rifles, it would seem to support the notion of them being more common. This is, of course, assuming that other rimworlds have similar settlers and similar tech levels to the ones we play, but I feel confident in that assumption. So, in a way, charge rifles being that common makes sense; if your faction has researched machining, pulse rifles, and component assembly, there isn't much reason why you wouldn't crank out charge rifles. (Well, aside from potentially losing money on it; the information I have on firearm profitability is dated [A13] but that's what I have to go on.) This could account for how common they are.
However, I worry that I may have sidetracked Boston and Mikhail. The very real issue of game balance, as Nick points out, remains. When you get one to three charge rifles per pirate raid, they no longer seem rare, and as others such as Shurp have pointed out, they present a dominant strategy; arming colonists with snipers, charge rifles, and miniguns (as well as a few grenadiers) seems to work better than any combination I've found which uses the many guns in the game, such as shotguns, PDWs, machine pistols, and so on.
Unfortunately, I'm not quite sure how to solve that; perhaps for the one-hand weapons (pistol, machine pistol, etc.) a very short aim time is in order, making them close-quarters surprise weapons. (The idea being a pistol is a lot easier to maneuver and bring to bear than a longarm.) However, with the way combat currently works, a one-shot incapacitation seems unlikely, rendering that advantage minimal. I do feel that somehow specializing the guns for roles would be useful, I'm just not sure how one would go about that. Though, once I looked at the weapon stats, it seems that's already in place.
Really, the only thing that comes to mind is perhaps increasing the cooldown of the charge rifle from 40 ticks (as the postiol) to 80 (as the LMG or HSMG). I say this because, on paper, the guns DO look balanced; the HSMG for instance has only slightly less damage (10 vs 13) than the pulse rifle, comparable accuracy, slightly reduced range but a larger burst. If the above suggested were introduced, they'd also have similar warm-up and cooldown speeds.
I'll also say that having the assault rifle have half the damage of the survival rifle seems a little odd, assuming they're of similar calibers. Bringing AR damage to 18 would be overkill, mind, given the AR's burst. I'm not sure. Maybe a general damage buff for non-CR weapons is in order?
_ Guys, i just want some more weapon that balanced :) Charged Rifle is balanced as a high end weapon. Now we need some weapons that fill the gap between AR and CR, for example : i edited High Caliber mod that i deleted all stuff except AK-74, change it to AK-47 ( both cartridge size, icon, name etc ) It deals 15 damage per shot, but only 2 shots each burts ( 30 damage in total ) and has the same other stat like AR, is it balanced yet ? :3 The mats needed to craft AK-47 is 300 steel ( 150 steel and 6 components ) We need more mats to craft it than AR because of balancing, higher power means more expensive in game.
Quote from: brcruchairman on September 27, 2016, 08:02:29 PM
I'll also say that having the assault rifle have half the damage of the survival rifle seems a little odd, assuming they're of similar calibers. Bringing AR damage to 18 would be overkill, mind, given the AR's burst. I'm not sure. Maybe a general damage buff for non-CR weapons is in order?
They aren't. The Assault Rifle is based off the M16, which is 5.66 x 45mm. The Survival Rifle is based off a Short Magazine Lee Enfield, which is .303 British. 5.66mm is .223 in diameter.
The survival rifle should be
far more lethal than the assault rifle, it fires a larger + heavier bullet at roughly the same velocity, and impacts with over 1000 more Joules of force.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 09:50:28 PM
They aren't. The Assault Rifle is based off the M16, which is 5.66 x 45mm. The Survival Rifle is based off a Short Magazine Lee Enfield, which is .303 British. 5.66mm is .223 in diameter.
The survival rifle should be far more lethal than the assault rifle, it fires a larger + heavier bullet at roughly the same velocity, and impacts with over 1000 more Joules of force.
This is a good point. However, the question remains of how much of that energy is transferred to the target, and how much is wasted by being left over after the round punches through. The 5.66 x 45 mm tumbles a bit, yeah? That'd transfer more energy to the target, in a similar fashion to hollow points. However, that's purely academic, because, as you pointed out, they AREN'T the same caliber, so regardless of tumbling or energy transfer, the difference in damage remains justified based on the different bullet characteristics in the first place. So, thank you for pointing out my flawed assumption! Assuming they're of similar calibers doesn't seem to be a good assumption at all. :p
But yeah, as iceteazz says, some more balancing would be handy. :)
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
They aren't using miraculous hand tools, they are using hammers, axes, welding torches. Do you even pay attention in-game? Take a listen to some of the sounds they make whenever the colonists work at a task. Chop down trees? Axe sounds. Mine some rock? Pickaxe. Build something? Hammer and saw. Work on something mechanical? Welding torch. All tools that would likely be a part of any colonization effort, and specifically mentioned as existing in the fiction primer.
Well the 'rock' they mine, isn't a ore, its a prefabricated steel or plasteel structure, so yeah they aren't beating that apart with a pick. Also, unless its been removed since it went to steam, the flash and spark when they hit stuff implies that it isn't a regular 20th century tool. The fact that its a man portable axe/wrench/welder/solider/hammer/surgical tool/whatever else they need, I imagine its something akin to a sonic screw driver - a sort of jack-of-all-trades device that can become what it needs to, using some future tech that would sound like magic to us, but would be as ubiquitous as a Swiss Army Knife to the Rim people.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
The colonists also don't have access to "awesome batteries" and "super magnets". First of all, where are you seeing magnets in-game? As far as I can tell, there are none. As for batteries, they actually kind of suck. Generally, the trend for more advanced technology is to get more compact and more efficient. Batteries that take up the same amount of space as a bed and explode on an alarmingly-regular basis are not "awesome". They sound like cribbed-together junk. Which is what they are. Modern batteries are more efficient.
Well given that this wonder tool never runs dry, it has some pretty awesome power generation/storage capabilities. Also it can be used to make a reactor that can power a spaceship, so its got to have some tech. Their batteries are able to charge and discharge amounts of power that for us is insane (you create a battery bank the size of a single bed that is able to power a house and then be recharged in a matter of minutes)- so yeah they are futuristic and awesome, even if a bit dodgy. As for magnets - you cant make a reactor or even a simple electronic door without magnets - even if you don't make a 'magnet' in-game, the things they produce imply they they are able to make them.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
I can build a bow in my backyard, actually. A bow is far simpler to make than a firearm, which in turn is far simpler to make than a railgun.
I'm going to say 'No, you cant'. I don't doubt that you would be able to make something that looks exactly like a bow, maybe even move a arrow through the air enough to embed in a light target. You would not be able to make a actual combat bow - the necessary knowledge in wood is amazingly high. You have to use the wood from the right part, of the right tree, at the right time of year, prepare it in the right way, have a working knowledge of that particular woods compression and tensile strengths, run the grain the the appropriate direction, shape the wood in the correct way to optimism that particular pieces characteristics.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
Take a look at the fiction primer of Rimworld sometime, and you will realize that a large part of the theme of Rimworld is how technology is unsustainable. The whole reason there are tribes and "modern" people on the Rimworlds is specifically because they couldn't sustain all the superawesome shit they had on Glitterworlds. It is why components and breakdowns were added, and why there are specifically non-powered versions of almost every workbench in the game. If you can't support your current level of technology, TECH DOWN. Stop using DEW and use cartridge-based firearms. Stop using firearms and use bows and arrows.
Thats one way to interpret it. Ty has never said that tho - a lot of the unpowered stuff was simply added because us as a fan base asked for it because it turned out that people really dug the tribal stuff.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
You might be able to crib together a zipgun, but could you sustain it? Make new parts for it when they break, make new ammunition (not find new ammunition, but make new ones)? Chances are almost overwhelmingly likely no.
If I had a tool like they did that made parts, yeah I reckon I could. The chemical side of it would be when it got hard, because you would have to source specific chemicals to make ancient recipes, which is why I suggest they would use more current, and familiar tech.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
A railgun, or other advanced technology for that matter, is that multiplied by 100000. Hell, "modern" technology in and of itself is unsustainable. Can you build a refrigerator, without the internet or a guide telling you how? How about a windmill? A heater? You do realize that, if society were to somehow collapse in real life, humanity would be back to the Iron Age within a couple of generations, and we would never be able to have another Industrial Revolution? We used up all the resources.
I.... I dont get this one. Yeah I could build a refrigerator - not a modern one, but a kerosene one quite easily. But then a windmill? Thats just a wooden structure, which I've built more then a couple of, with a supported bearing, a sail and a universal joint - so yeah I could make that too. If I had to make everything my self (except the initial tool) I'd replace nails with wooden dowels, but yeah its doable. And then a heater; a fire - done. ? If you are talking about a spaceheater, thats just a heating element (a controlled short circuit) with a fan behind it - you could do the same (and I have done in my shed) with a fire and a fan. I really dont get if you are saying those things would be hard to make - if I was stuck in the wild, with a tool that was capable of fabricating 'parts' like theirs is, none of those things you listed would be outside my knowledge to construct, given enough time, manpower and desire. A bow on the other hand uses a whole heap of principles that I have no familiar basis with.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
I consider myself pretty familiar with most examples of modern technology, but that doesn't mean I could reproduce it. I know the mechanics behind a computer, but I couldn't build one out of scrap. I know the mechanics behind an internal combustion engine, but I couldn't build one from scrap.
Same here, yet the Rimworld people do (cyro pods must use a computer. that spaceship has a computer in it somewhere. etc etc). Either they are all nuclear scientists, or those tools help them.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
Oh, and the setting is clearly in the future. Are you missing the space ships flying by, the mechanic killer-bots, and the Directed Energy Weapons?
Pretty much yeah - all the cool futuristic stuff is largely incidental - the spaceships could (and are) get replaced by local caravans, the mechs almost seem jarring when I encounter them simply because how out of place they feel in context. I'm sitting in my cave, guarding my cotton plantation with bolt action rifles behind sandbags, running the power off burning wood, raising cows and then ROBOTS.
Rimworld feels 90% modern with 10% future shoehorned - and for no reason - the futuristic stuff always feel almost the same as its 1000 year counter part. What I'm suggesting is making the 'old' stuff 100-400 years old, plainly inspired by 1000 year old stuff.
Relating more directly to this post - what you could then do would be buff some of the lower tier weapons slightly to make them more competitive with the charged rifle in certain situations (eg: slightly extend the survival rifles firepower and rate to make it a more solid step between the sniper and the charged rifle; make the pistol more accurate at shorter range with a bit more punch and slightly shorter aim time and next-to-no move cool down etc etc), nerfing the Charged a little in terms of its universal-ness (lower damage, increase fire rate, lower accuracy).
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on September 27, 2016, 10:43:36 PM
I imagine its something akin to a sonic screw driver - a sort of jack-of-all-trades device that can become what it needs to, using some future tech that would sound like magic to us, but would be as ubiquitous as a Swiss Army Knife to the Rim people.
Those first two words invalidate everything that come after them. You "can imagine" whatever you like, but you would, well..... you would be wrong. Sorry.
Plus, you do realize that steel sparks when struck with another piece of steel, right? This is how modern firestarters work. I can take my knife and strike a spark off of almost anything steel with enough carbon content. There goes your argument.
Quote
Well given that this wonder tool never runs dry
There is no wonder tool, pal. All you have is headcanon.
Quote
I'm going to say 'No, you cant'. I don't doubt that you would be able to make something that looks exactly like a bow, maybe even move a arrow through the air enough to embed in a light target. You would not be able to make a actual combat bow - the necessary knowledge in wood is amazingly high. You have to use the wood from the right part, of the right tree, at the right time of year, prepare it in the right way, have a working knowledge of that particular woods compression and tensile strengths, run the grain the the appropriate direction, shape the wood in the correct way to optimism that particular pieces characteristics.
I....... I have a bow sitting right next to me. I made it with my own two hands. How are you going to tell me I didn't? I
hunt deer with it. I've
killed deer with it. It draws 60lbs at 24 inches.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
Thats one way to interpret it. Ty has never said that tho - a lot of the unpowered stuff was simply added because us as a fan base asked for it because it turned out that people really dug the tribal stuff.
Considering how the nonpowered stuff was added in the same update that added components, breakdowns and other calamities, it is a little more complicated and involved than "lol lemme add this cuz tribal"
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
If I had a tool like they did that made parts, yeah I reckon I could. The chemical side of it would be when it got hard, because you would have to source specific chemicals to make ancient recipes, which is why I suggest they would use more current, and familiar tech.
NO FUCKING WONDERTOOL EXISTS IN THE GAME. You keep on referring to this "wonder tool" that flat-out
doesn't exist. Your
entire argument is based on this. Stop.
Quote
I.... I dont get this one. Yeah I could build a refrigerator - not a modern one, but a kerosene one quite easily. But then a windmill? Thats just a wooden structure, which I've built more then a couple of, with a supported bearing, a sail and a universal joint - so yeah I could make that too. If I had to make everything my self (except the initial tool) I'd replace nails with wooden dowels, but yeah its doable. And then a heater; a fire - done. ? If you are talking about a spaceheater, thats just a heating element (a controlled short circuit) with a fan behind it - you could do the same (and I have done in my shed) with a fire and a fan. I really dont get if you are saying those things would be hard to make - if I was stuck in the wild, with a tool that was capable of fabricating 'parts' like theirs is, none of those things you listed would be outside my knowledge to construct, given enough time, manpower and desire
1) Awesome, you know the principles behind the Einstein Refrigeration process. Quick question:
where are you gonna get the parts, boyo? The pipes, the flux, the
kerosene?
2) -eyeroll- The windmill we have in game, imbecile, with attached dynamo for generating power. Where are you gonna get the gears, sprockets, the oil, the dynamo?
3) No, imbecile,
the heater (and cooler, and vent) we have in-game, not a fucking fire with a fan behind it. Where are you gonna get the wires, the controls,
the electricity?
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 02:45:28 PM
Same here, yet the Rimworld people do (cyro pods must use a computer. that spaceship has a computer in it somewhere. etc etc). Either they are all nuclear scientists, or those tools help them.
Or, almost infinitely more likely, they are capable of building said things due to gameplay, and the fact that the game isn't out of Alpha yet.
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 11:06:08 PM
1) Awesome, you know the principles behind the Einstein Refrigeration process. Quick question: where are you gonna get the parts, boyo? The pipes, the flux, the kerosene?
2) -eyeroll- The windmill we have in game, imbecile, with attached dynamo for generating power. Where are you gonna get the gears, sprockets, the oil, the dynamo?
3) No, imbecile, the heater (and cooler, and vent) we have in-game, not a fucking fire with a fan behind it. Where are you gonna get the wires, the controls, the electricity?
A: nice 'tude.
B: the same place they get their gunpowder, copper casing and primers?
They build a nuclear reactor, and a cryogenic freezer with their hands. They have some kind of tool.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on September 27, 2016, 11:11:35 PM
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 11:06:08 PM
1) Awesome, you know the principles behind the Einstein Refrigeration process. Quick question: where are you gonna get the parts, boyo? The pipes, the flux, the kerosene?
2) -eyeroll- The windmill we have in game, imbecile, with attached dynamo for generating power. Where are you gonna get the gears, sprockets, the oil, the dynamo?
3) No, imbecile, the heater (and cooler, and vent) we have in-game, not a fucking fire with a fan behind it. Where are you gonna get the wires, the controls, the electricity?
A: nice 'tude.
B: the same place they get their gunpowder, copper casing and primers?
They build a nuclear reactor, and a cryogenic freezer with their hands. They have some kind of tool.
Hey, you were the one that brought up a campfire, when you knew perfectly well what I was referring to.
They do have tools. Hand tools.
You do realize that nuclear reactors are built, maintained and serviced using regular hand and power-tools, right?
Literal wrenches They are glorified steam turbines. All they have to do is move water around. Pipes and pumps.
A 17 year old actually built a reactor in his backyard. Didn't work, but he didn't have no fancy-shmancy sonic screwdriver.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hahn
Anyways, I am done discussing this with you. It is evident we do not, and will not, see eye to eye.
Reactors may be put together with tools, the parts are made on industrial construction lines - something the colonists do on the spot
with their sparking wonder tools. Also love the irony in 'pffh gunpowder, copper and primers? easy fix. Pipes, gears, oil and wires? Impossible hurdle!'
Quote from: Boston on September 27, 2016, 11:20:54 PM
Anyways, I am done discussing this with you. It is evident we do not, and will not, see eye to eye.
No worries. Wanta call me a imbecile a few more times first? Get it outa ya system?
How about everyone just chill out before I start passing around punishment? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
_ Chill dudes, we are talking about Charged Rifle, not other stuff or why we can't make rail guns but space ships and orbital trading are common. And don't ask me why they can transport your goods on the ground to their space ship in trading lol.
_ We need some more guns to fill the gap between AR and CR. or make those gun less powerfull in close range so other close range weapons could be used.
Quote from: iceteazz on September 28, 2016, 02:37:27 AM
_ Chill dudes, we are talking about Charged Rifle, not other stuff or why we can't make rail guns but space ships and orbital trading are common. And don't ask me why they can transport your goods on the ground to their space ship in trading lol.
_ We need some more guns to fill the gap between AR and CR. or make those gun less powerfull in close range so other close range weapons could be used.
I was never really not chilled - he started yellin', screaming' n calling me names over it - my reply was more a 'well if ya wanta be that way' then anything else.
But yeah - that's pretty much my point ey? We have charge rifles, bionics and genetically modified exploding rats - why be happy with 'fun' when it could have the same in-game theme as the rest of it. Sure current fire arms might be a niche thing, but you figure a better stand in for a low level gun would be a low quality/old current tech weapon, then a ancient completely different weapon.
Ya last point is what I was sayin @ the end of my last big post where it all came back around - if we scootched the low level guns up towards the Charged a bit more, brought the charged down a bit and put 'modern' gun if to match/better the AR I think it would fill out nicely.
Change of subject: an M16 round is faster than a survival rifle round. But the survival rifle round still packs more punch:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British
783 m/s, 3574J
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington
900 m/s, 1807J
So the "Assault Rifle" should be pushed up from 7 to at least 9.
The AK47 round is surprisingly not that more deadly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9739mm
738 m/s, 2,179J
A damage of 11 might work there. In any case, 7 is not nearly enough.
Quote from: Shurp on September 29, 2016, 05:46:37 PM
Change of subject: an M16 round is faster than a survival rifle round. But the survival rifle round still packs more punch:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.303_British
783 m/s, 3574J
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.223_Remington
900 m/s, 1807J
So the "Assault Rifle" should be pushed up from 7 to at least 9.
The AK47 round is surprisingly not that more deadly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.62%C3%9739mm
738 m/s, 2,179J
A damage of 11 might work there. In any case, 7 is not nearly enough.
_ We need a rebalanced the gun system, because how can heavy smg deal 10 damage per shot but for Assault Rifle it's only 7. We don't need to get a Real weapon system in the game, we need balanced weapons. You can make AK-47 hit harder than Charged Rifle, but it should be more expensive and need more ingredients to craft, that's it.
Most weapons lack balance with one another, so yeah that needs to be fixed... but it would be nice to see more weapons between "industrial" and "spacer" tech.
Something along the lines of neolithic->standard ballistic->magnetic (gauss)->charge (plasma) weapons. I think having a pretty equal amount of variety in that many categories would make the game flow a lot more smoothly, as far as combat goes.
My input:
I'd like to see weapon tiers like above: pre-gunpowder, then modern-ish guns, then one or two tiers above that. Each tier with upgrades over everything before it, but no direct upgrades. That is, no weapon (or ranged weapon at least) has literally every stat equal or better than any weapon one tier below it. So kinda like how it currently is (charge rifle is an overall better assault rifle, but with worse range and longer burst, for example).
After that, comparable variants (different modern assault rifles, for example) would be neat.
I like the idea of something "in between" modern ballistic weapons and plasma weapons. But magnetic weapons sound boring. A railgun is just a fast bullet. Why not do something exciting like *nuclear* weaponry? You know that uranium that shows up here and there but seems useless? How about fission hand grenades and bullets?
Just wanted to chime in once more:
This thread seems to run away to "add stuff"-land. I do not think more weapons are neccessary (or helpful in the current situation). The actual amount and names of the current weapons are sufficient to give each of them a niche - the problem is just that most of them do not have one right now.
Re-tuning the current weapons so that most feel useful and have something unique going for them should be a priority. Adding anything else can safely be left to modders.
My suggestion:
Shortbows, Pilae, Grenades and the superweapons do not need to be rebalanced much (even though I dislike the ridiculousness of the rocket launchers, since nothing helps you against those).
Low-Tier-Weapons:
These three weapons form the "core", are better than the barbaric weapons and fullfull three distinctive roles. Basically a bad assault rifle (smg), a bad sniper rifle (bow) and a bad shotgun (pistol). These three weapons should also form the bulk of early game raider equipment and slowly phase out to give room to more mid-tier stuff.
Great Bow
Since it nowadays comes after quite some tech, it could stand to be a bit stronger. Some more range and a small increase damage, to make it stand out more as an upgrade to the other barbaric weapons and not too shabby an option to equip a colonist with if you want a long range weapons and all you rifles are already in use.
Pistol
Rework it into a heavy pistol (or revolver, befitting the mood) and up the damage quite a bit (20?) while slightly lowering its rate of fire. A hand cannon that is overall not that strong, but a solid backup until you find a good rifle.
SMG
One is enough. Use the stats of the heavy one with the range of the small one. Attack speed roughly in-between them. Should basically be almost as good as the assault rifle with a bit less range.
Mid-Tier-Weapons
These will form the core of most of the game. At the beginning, they will be rare (besides the starting survival rifle, obviously). After a few raids, these will become the common items to loot. These are the items players would want to craft a few of when they first get the appropriate tech.
Survival Rifle
Stays more or less like it is now. A very slight damage buff (perhaps greatbow, pistol and this one all share 20 damage?). Works well as a baseline "cannot go wrong" weapon.
Shotgun
If it keeps its mechanics as a single shot weapon, up the damage significantly. 30 at the very least. Slightly lower attack speed. That way, its a faster shooting close range heavy damage weapon. Almost the same punch as a sniper, much better dps. Dps better than most weapons, but the range of 16 hurts. If too good, make the accurracy fall off quicker.
Assault Rifle
More damage per shot than right now. About 10 should do the trick. It should have the highest dps of all the weapons until this tier, but only closely edge out shotgun and smg. Its main benefit will be the good range to go with that. Its main drawback will be the low punch per shot.
High-Tier-Weapons
These weapons should require an additional, expensive tech - or one smaller tech, each (enhanced optics for the sniper, something technical sounding for the charger, high-velocity-barrels or something like that for the lmg). They are slightly better and much more expensive to craft and much rarer as drops (and therefore, as enemy weaponry).
Sniper Rifle
More or less stays like it is. If it needs a slight buff, make it attack a tad faster.
Charge Rifle
More or less stays like it is. Perhaps +1 dmg per shot since we buffed the assault rifle.
LMG
Burst count up to 12 or so. Longer warmup, a bit lower cooldown. Should have the highest sustained dps, but stays at the relatively low dmg per bullet. Gains a bit of range.
PS
Oh, and weapon ranges should be homogenized a bit. Most follow the 4-jump-rule, but there are some strange outliers. I suggest giving all weapons one of 16/24/32/40. 2-3 spaces more or less do not make a real difference in practice, but 8-tile-brackets feel noticable.
Balancing weapons already in the game is all well and good, and it's good to stay on-topic. I get that.
If there are no plans to add more weapon types for different tech levels, then balancing now is a fine option. As long as all of the potential vanilla game weapons get into the game before any major effort spent balancing is done. You could balance all of the current weapons in the game right now perfectly, and then muck it all up with the addition of a single weapon. (Fairly easily, too)
Also, balancing weapons is easiest done in a spreadsheet, where you can visualize the effectiveness of a weapon more easily. At least, that's what I use when I balance them for my play throughs :)
The idea that charge rifles are more common because they are modern brings up a very interesting question. If its common as a gun on the GLITTERWORLDS, how are they being supplied regularly to there?
Compare this to say, a tribal village out in the middle of nowhere, or just a frontier town. In the tribal village, a bow is MUCH more common as it is easy to produce, and nobody goes to the village to sell guns. Thus, little, if any guns show up.
Compare to a frontier town, they might produce their own firearms, wagons, axels ect, but NOT have state of the art laser sights, night vision, ect. This is because it must either come from WITHIN the area, or an outside source.
I guess with all the trade ships, its not farfetched to get a few, but I agree they should be rarer.
I think it would be good if colonists needed a certain level of weapon skills to use them safely. If a colonist has a lower rank, the accuracy and speed drops and there is the possibility that the colonist will damage himself or damage the weapon.
If a charge rifle blow your hand away, it will be less used ...
Quote from: PrZe77 on October 06, 2016, 06:05:16 AM
I think it would be good if colonists needed a certain level of weapon skills to use them safely. If a colonist has a lower rank, the accuracy and speed drops and there is the possibility that the colonist will damage himself or damage the weapon.
If a charge rifle blow your hand away, it will be less used ...
Not only is that an unrealistic change (how much more difficult can squeezing one trigger vs another be), but also would require more micromanagement (making sure there isnt a bad shooter that picks up the wrong weapon), add frustration (why can't my guy shoot that rifle, why do guns always explode in my face, why is that nice high-tech drop I got useless for the next 7 months), and add absolutely no positive gameplay elements.
my question is why do we assume that glitterworlds are common? i would think modern (i.e real life) level tech + or - a few years is more common, i think i read someplace that glitterworlds were quite rare infact as most worlds tended to either regress due to resource lack/lack of skilled people or bombed them selves back to the stone age.
sure CR would find there way to the open market any weapon will but we can make a few safe ASSUMPTIONS based on cannon, First glitterworlds are advanced and very low crime and most peoples needs are met so few people would wish or need to own a weapon so they wouldnt be all that common for john doe to own in most cases, Second glitterworlds do fail and go to war so some weapons on the market is obviously going to happen, Third some glitterworlds may be happy to trade weapons but others wont due to culture.
I think the problem is we can make them and power armor at a work bench easily, what we need to have happen is make them rare and very expensive and if you do craft them or power armor you need special parts from traders to finish them and make them work.
this would slove a lot of the CRs problems, Though this would still leave a lot of the other issues woth other weapons that were told are being worked on.
I made a weapon rebalancing mod in that the charge rifle was refurbished as a PDW 3.0. It has the same range, but increased damage, accuracy in all departments and a drastically low warm-up rate, meaning it is a great hit-and-run firearm that gets outclassed by the Assault Rifle in long-range firefights, but better in nearly every other field. So it's not a Pump Shotgun 2.0 anymore, but something like a sidegrade from the Assault Rifle with more effectiveness nearly everywhere but longer range capabilities.
Quote from: Arctic_fox on October 06, 2016, 12:29:55 PM
my question is why do we assume that glitterworlds are common? i would think modern (i.e real life) level tech + or - a few years is more common, i think i read someplace that glitterworlds were quite rare infact as most worlds tended to either regress due to resource lack/lack of skilled people or bombed them selves back to the stone age.
sure CR would find there way to the open market any weapon will but we can make a few safe ASSUMPTIONS based on cannon, First glitterworlds are advanced and very low crime and most peoples needs are met so few people would wish or need to own a weapon so they wouldnt be all that common for john doe to own in most cases, Second glitterworlds do fail and go to war so some weapons on the market is obviously going to happen, Third some glitterworlds may be happy to trade weapons but others wont due to culture.
I think the problem is we can make them and power armor at a work bench easily, what we need to have happen is make them rare and very expensive and if you do craft them or power armor you need special parts from traders to finish them and make them work.
this would slove a lot of the CRs problems, Though this would still leave a lot of the other issues woth other weapons that were told are being worked on.
I always took the assumption there's a line between modern and glitterworld tech which the CR fits in, where wars were still being fought (but in much less frequency) and the CR was the upgrade from common firearms those worlds invented.
Been testing it for the past two months. Since the gun is as common as it is in Vanilla, it's still an upgrade, but not as drastic as before, and I like it how it is.