Shot at a poison ship to trigger the bots to come out. They popped out and blew my head off before my firing cooldown finished. (so I couldn't move behind the wall)
Kind of bullcrap imo
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Never "open" a mech ship part without setting up a combat area first, and never with just one guy (or if you somehow feel the need to, do it with a sniper rifle from 40 spaces away).
I usually build at least a few quick mini walls - one space wall, 1-2 free, and so on - in medium distance so I do not get outranged by Scythers. Put a guy behind each of them, have someone with a short firing cooldown weapon fire at the ship, pause the second they appear and assess and target.
If you have one guy with a personal shield, have that one stand to the side, but closer to the mechs and run around like a headless chicken. This will draw most of the fire and is usually pretty safe to do as long as you run him out if his shield goes down and take care to not stand in fire if they pack inferno cannons (which is basically the one centipede weapon that is really problematic, since the other two miss about 99% of their shots).
I find the scythers to be the real threat with those precautions and target them first if at all possible. They die pretty quickly, but they are accurate and pack a mean punch.
A couple notes. First, put sandbags at the edges of those walls your guy died leaning out from behind. If the square he leans over has a sandbag it will provide cover.
Second, use any other pawn (preferably one with a shield) and just run around randomly out in the open, but closer to the bots than your pawns that are firing at them. If you do it right you can avoid any damage. The runner should be either right at the cusp of the enemy's range or near an obstacle they can run behind when the enemy starts firing. It's important that you don't run behind cover or out of range until the enemy starts firing or else they'll switch to one of your other pawns as a target.
I just put a few explosive IEDs around the ship and plink it once. Any scythers that spawn instantly die or get downed usually. Then I order my 8 mortars to fire a volley because explosions are fun even when they don't hit anything. Then I mop up with my sniper team that's waiting just out of range.
What I did in the past with enough materials was to build a power line close by, surround the ship with turrets, and then hide my pawns behind walls and ping it. The turrets would wreck any that came out and the explosions from the turrets blowing up would usually knock them out. The rest would be so low on hp I'd have no problem mopping them up.
But that was pre-A16 though, haven had an encounter in my current playthrough yet since i'm still pretty early and playing on Phobe Basebuilder to get a feel for A16. Its been quite awhile since I last played.
Quote from: Euzio on January 31, 2017, 09:56:23 PM
What I did in the past with enough materials was to build a power line close by, surround the ship with turrets, and then hide my pawns behind walls and ping it. The turrets would wreck any that came out and the explosions from the turrets blowing up would usually knock them out. The rest would be so low on hp I'd have no problem mopping them up.
But that was pre-A16 though, haven had an encounter in my current playthrough yet since i'm still pretty early and playing on Phobe Basebuilder to get a feel for A16. Its been quite awhile since I last played.
That is the luxurious route when you are advanced enough that you can affort such shenanigans. 2 sandbagged turrets about 5-6 spaces in front of your guys are usually enough to soak fire until you are mostly done with them.
Similarly, the above mentioned explosive traps are a nice solution that costs a bit of tech and material.
Nobody mentioned EMP nades, so I'm gonna: use EMP grenades, but put your good armor on those who you will send to throw them. And build good cover for them, as they need to be near the ship.
edit: And btw EMP nades don't kill them, they just stun them, so you'll still need shooters and some guys with normal nades. Usually I give grenades to melee guys, so I can keep firepower at max level.
All of these answers are bad. Just use a sniper to trigger the mechs and mop them up with his greater range. I've had a dozen or so ship parts on my sea ice playthrough its like a free steel silver and plasteel delivery.
That was unlucky, but why do you send a person without a helmet or kevlar vest in 5501 ? Also, survival rifle has longer range and you start with it. It would help if you brought a decoy colonist with you, just in case someone needs to catch bullets it should be your least valuable colonist. And if not, you would have someone nearby to rescue a downed colonist. And it was a POISON ship in a DESERT, it should be low priority so you can take your time and prepare.
You just got URBed man.
Just open it from max range and let others do the job, it will be treated as raid. Or prepare brawler with shield to wreck them.
Mad cuz bad.
It's absolutely bullshit that assault rifle has cooldown long enough to get a colonist killed with charge lances. Assault rifles are known for their short cooldown, and mechanoid weapons - for long.
This is the reason why I plant explosive IEDs around the clown car mechanoid ship.
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Send your least favorite colonist with a sniper rifle and armor to trigger the ship 40 tiles away. Make sure they're in good cover too and you have the ship surrounded with 4-8 explosive IED's. The mechanoids will spawn and trigger the IED's causing damage to themselves and the ship. When the ship reaches low enough HP, the mechanoids will attack your colony directly.
Quote from: RimworldOx on February 01, 2017, 02:59:08 AM
Mad cuz bad.
How about some suggestions for our friend instead of insults? :P
This setup works very well for a firefight against almost anything:
# <-- wall
= <-- sandbag
@ <-- pawn
@ @ @ @
#=##=##=##=#
Inferno cannon shots, miniguns, heavy charge blasters almost always hit the walls.
Scythers and others can hit your pawns but usually don't because you have both hard cover from the wall and soft cover from the sandbag.
Melee attackers can be a problem. Make sure to have a few melee weapons stashed in a stockpile behind you to grab and hack any brawlers.
And... why are you sending a lone colonist against a ship part? Like suggested above, use a sniper rifle if you're going to pull that stunt.
Quote from: Stormfox on January 31, 2017, 08:08:29 PM
Never "open" a mech ship part without setting up a combat area first, and never with just one guy (or if you somehow feel the need to, do it with a sniper rifle from 40 spaces away).
I usually build at least a few quick mini walls - one space wall, 1-2 free, and so on - in medium distance so I do not get outranged by Scythers. Put a guy behind each of them, have someone with a short firing cooldown weapon fire at the ship, pause the second they appear and assess and target.
If you have one guy with a personal shield, have that one stand to the side, but closer to the mechs and run around like a headless chicken. This will draw most of the fire and is usually pretty safe to do as long as you run him out if his shield goes down and take care to not stand in fire if they pack inferno cannons (which is basically the one centipede weapon that is really problematic, since the other two miss about 99% of their shots).
I find the scythers to be the real threat with those precautions and target them first if at all possible. They die pretty quickly, but they are accurate and pack a mean punch.
On the other hand, if you have a quality sniper on a quality shooter you can solo the things with him.
http://i.imgur.com/cHoLf2b.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7UMfU6C.jpg
Try that with a more ordinary pawn though and you'll starve on your sub-10% hit rate and have to rotate.
I do follow you, im often lazy and ask 3 guys to trow EMP grenades at the spaceship before i open it.
but it still amaze me that quite often they manage to pull of a number of shots.
almost like they exit the ship pre-aimed.
but as the rest have said, their are many good strategies, but to expect the mecks to aim when exiting the ship
is something i have stopped expecting.
I know it is frustrating, but we all learn things like this the hard way. If you shoot a crashed ship and are within range of the Scythers attack, your pawn will very likely take significant damage. Like others said, pop them with a sniper rifle with an escape path back to your base or this will happen again.
Thanks everyone for the advice. =)
I think popping the ship with the sniper is probably best.
If I don't have a sniper rifle, then maybe I'll make a wall with a doorway and hold it open with 2nd colonist, and have the 1st shoot through the doorway. That way I can pull pawn #2 back to shut the door since he won't be on cooldown.
Opening the ship was not especially dangerous in previous alphas as long as I built a wall to block the bots' line of fire with that I could run behind. I didn't realize that the cooldown on the assault rifle was long enough for the robots to exit the ship, aim and fire before I could move. =0
Just a thought: how close to the ship can you build without triggering it? Maybe one could build a small room around it, then throw a molotow inside and wait for them to burn out.
Quote from: Greenbear on February 01, 2017, 07:34:41 PM
Just a thought: how close to the ship can you build without triggering it? Maybe one could build a small room around it, then throw a molotow inside and wait for them to burn out.
The ships do nothing until they get damaged. Build everything you ever wished for around it.
Quote from: Guilty Omelette on February 01, 2017, 06:17:07 PM
If I don't have a sniper rifle, then maybe I'll make a wall with a doorway and hold it open with 2nd colonist, and have the 1st shoot through the doorway. That way I can pull pawn #2 back to shut the door since he won't be on cooldown.
That is needlessly complicated. Use the wall thingy I explained above (with extra luxury by placing sandbags in between them if you like). No need to "hold the door" or move around.
Quote
Opening the ship was not especially dangerous in previous alphas as long as I built a wall to block the bots' line of fire with that I could run behind. I didn't realize that the cooldown on the assault rifle was long enough for the robots to exit the ship, aim and fire before I could move. =0
As far as I know, nothing has changed with the way poison/psychic ships work recently (read: within the past year and about 5 alphas). It is probably just you not remembering them as particularly difficult from ages ago.
Quote from: Stormfox on February 01, 2017, 10:15:37 PM
As far as I know, nothing has changed with the way poison/psychic ships work recently (read: within the past year and about 5 alphas). It is probably just you not remembering them as particularly difficult from ages ago.
It's not poison/psychic ships that changed, it's the cooldowns from using weapons that were increased in A16.
Quote from: Stormfox on February 01, 2017, 10:15:37 PM
The ships do nothing until they get damaged. Build everything you ever wished for around it.
I can't help but laugh at the thought of Engie from Ice Sheet Survival Challenge using a ship part as a wall for her bedroom :)
Another possible way to deal with psychic ship parts:
Before the ship lands, breed up a huge army of dogs and chickens. (Chickens breed and grow fast; dogs provide some stiffening to your horribly wimpy army.)
When the ship part lands, send your 70-chicken-strong attack force out to take care of it while you keep your colonists inside.
Alternately laugh and cry as your army is devastated by intelligent war-machines. Groan in frustration at your single-digit framerates, and sigh in catharsis as it goes up again with every dead animal.
Quote from: Greenbear on February 01, 2017, 07:34:41 PM
Just a thought: how close to the ship can you build without triggering it? Maybe one could build a small room around it, then throw a molotow inside and wait for them to burn out.
You can build around the ship to your heart's content, but they will just smash their way out once you trigger them. In previous alphas, it was possible to incinerate them like this, but for a while now they have been smart enough to dig their way out (along with wild animals and neutral NPCs). Centipedes dig really fast too, so there is no way they will burn up.
Quote from: Shurp on February 02, 2017, 12:14:04 AM
I can't help but laugh at the thought of Engie from Ice Sheet Survival Challenge using a ship part as a wall for her bedroom :)
TOTALLY doable as long as it's a POISON ship.
1. let 1 colonist, e.g. Bob, stay close to enemy's ranger users than others.
2. All enemies agree to shoot Bob.
3. All enemies warm up their guns.
4. Bob runs into cover and stay behind some wall blocks.
5. All enemies lose their sights on their target (Bob). Everyone warm up times are reset.
6. Bob shows up again. He giggles at all enemies.
7. All enemies agree to shoot Bob.
8. Go to 3.
9. ? ? ?
10. Profit!!!
and thus 2 vs infinite number of range users is never a problem.
NOT EXPLOIT, I SWEAR.
Quote from: Pathing on February 02, 2017, 06:35:10 AM
1. let 1 colonist, e.g. Bob, stay close to enemy's ranger users than others.
2. All enemies agree to shoot Bob.
3. All enemies warm up their guns.
4. Bob runs into cover and stay behind some wall blocks.
5. All enemies lose their sights on their target (Bob). Everyone warm up times are reset.
6. Bob shows up again. He giggles at all enemies.
7. All enemies agree to shoot Bob.
8. Go to 3.
9. ? ? ?
10. Profit!!!
and thus 2 vs infinite number of range users is never a problem.
NOT EXPLOIT, I SWEAR.
Don't the enemies switch targets when their current one moves out of their LoF? I may be wrong, but I think that their cooldowns won't reset as you seem to be suggesting.
Quote from: Guilty Omelette on February 01, 2017, 06:17:07 PM
Thanks everyone for the advice. =)
I think popping the ship with the sniper is probably best.
If I don't have a sniper rifle, then maybe I'll make a wall with a doorway and hold it open with 2nd colonist, and have the 1st shoot through the doorway. That way I can pull pawn #2 back to shut the door since he won't be on cooldown.
Opening the ship was not especially dangerous in previous alphas as long as I built a wall to block the bots' line of fire with that I could run behind. I didn't realize that the cooldown on the assault rifle was long enough for the robots to exit the ship, aim and fire before I could move. =0
If the following conditions are true:
1) You're firing from wall cover at near max range for AR and during your firing animation, you order your soldier back behind it
2) Despite doing this, the mechs can shoot you before you take cover
3) The wiki stats on warmup and cooldown are accurate
Then the situation you describe is a bug and you should report it as one. According to wiki heavy charge and inferno have the fastest warmups, at 100 ticks. These are both slower than AR cooldown and none of the weapons in this game are hit scan.
1) pop ship with snipers...keep snipers running into and our of their range til everything is dead.
- boring, takes a while, micromanagement intensive, and feels like cheating. Feel free to do whatever you want though.
2) place a couple shielded pawns in COVER close to the ship...don't run them around. Have the rest of your pawns stand behind and to the side (or behind and between 2 shield users) so you don't shoot over your own shielded pawns. Have backup shielded pawns standing by to put out fires and take spots of burning pawns...
- still messes with mechanics. Gets your nonviolent pawns in on the action as shield decoys or fire extinguishers.
3) layered grenades. manually spread your pawns around the ship and throw a regular grenade. 1 second after you tell the pawn to throw the trigger grenade, tell the emp grenadiers to throw their grenades evenly around the ship. Also have the other grenadiers throw their regular grenades at this time. This means when the first grenade blows, the others are already landed and about to explode. You can do this without EMP grenades if you use enough...kills scythers very fast.
- not as cheaty, more tactical. Risky if you miss coverage on all areas. Grenades are awesome on trigger happy pawns. Can use shielded pawns to draw fire if you want, especially if you don't have enough EMP.
I think weapon cooldowns should be possible to cancel. I shouldn't have to reload a crossbow immediately after shooting, I may want to duck behind cover first. It could have very simple implementation - you can cancel cooldown anytime by ordering a colonist to move. As soon as he stops, he will start his cooldown (reloading/cocking) from scratch. Until it's done, he can only move, not shoot.
Quote from: b0rsuk on February 02, 2017, 11:29:05 AM
I think weapon cooldowns should be possible to cancel. I shouldn't have to reload a crossbow immediately after shooting, I may want to duck behind cover first. It could have very simple implementation - you can cancel cooldown anytime by ordering a colonist to move. As soon as he stops, he will start his cooldown (reloading/cocking) from scratch. Until it's done, he can only move, not shoot.
I agree with you but I suspect that warm-ups and cooldowns were changed by the developer specifically to stop us from doing things like this. =)
Having an unarmed colonist open and then immediately close a door that 4 other SWAT pawns are stacked on works a dream because you can fire a salvo without triggering any return fire.
Sadly i think Tynan has a dislike of tactics like these because he fears that it will trivialize combat and rob it off its tension.
I don't bother with armor at all because every time i trade fire with raiders, i seem to always end up with my favorite colonist getting a brain injury through his power armor helmet.
Yes, cooldowns are probably one of tynanisms. But for many players it's aggravating as it removes the feeling of player agency. It feels clunky.
I don't mind cooldowns in principle. It gives an apparently intentional advantage to some weapons that otherwise would lack a niche, like CQB firearms. It also gives the charge rifle a substantial advantage as it's tied for 1st with 40 ticks.
What bothered me is that the OP's story seems to imply that, on spawning, mech volley gets to ignore weapon warm-up ticks for that weapon which would be a cheap-shot.
As for which ways to handle ships are "cheaty" vs not, I see no reason that should be given time of day :p. There's no functional logical consistency in differentiating between player tactics that work against the AI when they would not against a human, especially if said tactics share in outcome.
Take the sniper vs shielded pawns in cover example. The former takes much longer to get rid of the ship, and both get rid of the ship with nearly zero risk when executed properly. So why would one method with 0 risk + similar outcome be considered less fair, especially when it has arguably inferior tradeoffs?
Using cover better than the AI uses it is on that exact same curve. Unless one uses a pre-arranged, objective criteria to evaluate "exploit" vs "playing within design", any decision on which category a tactic falls into is necessary arbitrary regardless of who makes it (even Tynan!). An arbitrary decision might be more time-efficient than alternatives and present better value than pushing a better standard on something relatively low-impact, but it is still arbitrary unless the reasoning is self-consistent.
Neither cover nor personal shield protects against inferno cannon. Inferno cannon grants some degree of resistance, but you still catch fire often when hit. And when that happens, other mechs will perforate you.
Which reminds me - some people gave terrible advice on the first page, that you should equip a personal shield and run in the open like a headless chicken, and don't go into cover because they will switch targets. Completely not true. Mechanoids simply shoot the closest target they can see. If you're partially visible (sandbags, leaning around corners) they will shoot.
Quote from: b0rsuk on February 02, 2017, 01:02:07 PM
Neither cover nor personal shield protects against inferno cannon. Inferno cannon grants some degree of resistance, but you still catch fire often when hit. And when that happens, other mechs will perforate you.
Which reminds me - some people gave terrible advice on the first page, that you should equip a personal shield and run in the open like a headless chicken, and don't go into cover because they will switch targets. Completely not true. Mechanoids simply shoot the closest target they can see. If you're partially visible (sandbags, leaning around corners) they will shoot.
The headless chicken strategy works great if you do it right. You have to let the mechs start firing
then run out of range or behind cover. That way they will not switch targets, instead restarting their cooldown. With a personal shield you are very unlikely to take any damage from the 1 or 2 shots that may hit before you get out of range.
Seriously though, with this strategy I take zero or almost zero damage fighting mechs.
Inferno cannon has enough range and projectile travel time that it will struggle to hit pawns moving full speed. I suppose doing that isn't obvious to everyone though, and it has problems as numbers grow since you only get a few dodges before the whole area is on fire.
Against non-ship mech raids I often fight centipedes by popping out of a door (interior door held open), shooting them with an assault rifle, survival rifle, or charge rifle, then going back in until the stop "waiting for targets", repeating ad-nauseum. It's painstaking, but effective if you're running rock walls.
The real issue here is that the mech don't leave the ship. If they did, however, you could isolate scyther from centipedes due to speed difference, with inferno cannons trivially kited (should be considered within design given move speed choices). These things are practically made for sniper rifle/mortars with current rules and behaviors. If you change behaviors the tactics to win also change.
Moral of the story: running around is for inferno cannon. But it makes it worse against instant weapons.
And if you have a TON of steel and aren't in any rush you can have your mortars target the ship from a safe distance.
In fact, if you are willing to waste a lot of steel/shells to avoid risking damage to a pawn, you can sit back and mortar the ship to oblivion. The mechs will raid you when it gets to a %, I can't remember but I think it's around 50%. When they charge your base, you get the scythers way before the centipedes (Unless the ship landed right outside your base) since they are so much faster.
But I can only pull this off in stable colonies that I should have already built a spaceship on.