Would be interesting if there would be a second value associated to an object. A sort of HP baseline that get degraded after receiving damages. In this way you can't just keep 5 colonist behind 5 doors and survive to any raid.
This would make the whole think more real, over time the baseline would degrade and the top HP of a door would became lower (i.e. after reaching 100hp a steal door would lower its hp baseline from 250hp to 150hp, thus after being damaged it would last less).
To increase again the baseline the colonists would require resources.
So like an upkeep cost for built items? Seems ok, but what stops me needing to click on every door in my base to check their health when I'm low on supplies?
If you are low in supplies you could just stop repairing. It just feels unnatural that without using resources I can have a shiny door in 3 seconds. Or that I can stop an elephant breaking a door forever by putting a colonist behind it repairing.
Yes, this would be a good change. The exploit of having a high skill constructor repairing a door indefinitely while raiders beat on it is something we have all probably done at some point. This change would fix it and add a bit of realism to the situation.
Or at least require the door to be repaired from the same side it was damaged from.
The biggest problem I have with this suggestion is it will add an unreasonable amount of player based micromanagement tasks. I agree that the repair ability does need some balance work though, I just don't see this as a good way of doing that. I am interested in the general idea though.
No micromanagement at all.
Reasonably after some years you would end up with portions of the base ruined that have to be rebuilt.
Would be even more interesting to see a base after 2 years having the scars of many battles. Now it is kind of lame, the base gets automatically shining after each battle in half a day.
My idea is that a door that has 250/250 after getting damaged gets a 50/120 and then can be repaired to 120, but not anymore to 250, unless is rebuilt.
.... OR let's say you click on the door and get a button that says rebuild. Then you pay 50% of the cost to build it and get's repaired back to 100% (250/250).
In this way there would be no micromanagement, double click a door (select all doors) and click rebuild. Do that same double clicking on a wall. End.
Kind of easy I think, but adds a new dimension.
So basically you want there to be 3 clicks before pawns repair stuff? Screw that. Forget to do that once and half ya base is ruined a month later....
I think having repair costs would be a good addition. It would probably require having a separate task for repair, though, so you could disable automatic repairs when your colony is low on resources, and so you can assign specific pawns to the repair task.
I prefer the idea of damaged structures not being repairable to their full value because that leads to more tradeoffs. Use the resources/time now to fix it or wait until it's further damaged for a better return on the work? It also would create vulnerabilities in bases and defensive structures that take more time and effort to fix than the current 20 seconds of magic soldering.
Quote from: Aerial on March 03, 2017, 08:51:23 AM
I think having repair costs would be a good addition. It would probably require having a separate task for repair, though, so you could disable automatic repairs when your colony is low on resources, and so you can assign specific pawns to the repair task.
Like pre A15 *rofl* Yes. I would like that very much.
I don't like the Idea of a degrading health baseline .. that just sounds to gamey.
A resource need based on the percentage of the damage would best.
That need would be calculated from the health percentage and the ressources needed to build.
Stuff Door, Stuff Wall and Stuff Autodoor for example :
Wall : 5 Stuff; 100/5 = 20. Every 20% Repair require one stuff, less require none.
Door: 25 Stuff; 100/25 = 4. Every 4% Repair require one stuff.
Now it gets interesting multiple Stuff
Auto: 25 Stuff, 40 Steel, 2 Components; 100/ 25 = 4 ; 100 / 40 = 2.5 ; 100 /2 =50;
So Every 2.5 % cost 1 Steel, every 4 % one Stuff, and every 50% one Component
So 50% Damage would require : 1 Component; 20 Steel and 12 Stuff ( 48%, 2% are free ).
Suddenly all Stockpiles are Indoors ;D
With this feature I would suggest a common HP degradation over time, with the
addition of degraded Machines getting a malus on production.
This would replace the breakdown mechanic and limit the bzzzt event to gear under 50% ..
Also it would keep your builders busy and slow down the growth of a colony and a turret killbox would get expensive.
And it is an incentive to trade for raw goods :)
Quote from: SpaceDorf on March 03, 2017, 10:12:38 AM
Quote from: Aerial on March 03, 2017, 08:51:23 AM
I think having repair costs would be a good addition. It would probably require having a separate task for repair, though, so you could disable automatic repairs when your colony is low on resources, and so you can assign specific pawns to the repair task.
Like pre A15 *rofl* Yes. I would like that very much.
I only started playing toward the end of A16 so I'm unfamiliar with what the previous mechanic might have been.
QuoteI don't like the Idea of a degrading health baseline .. that just sounds to gamey.
A resource need based on the percentage of the damage would best.
That need would be calculated from the health percentage and the ressources needed to build.
Actually, I think the degrading health baseline would be less gamey (i.e. more like reality) since I can't expect to repair a granite wall that's been pulverized by artillery fire back to like new condition. Rather, I have to replace it.
However, I will readily concede that it might make for a less fun game mechanic compared to what you outline below.
QuoteStuff Door, Stuff Wall and Stuff Autodoor for example :
Wall : 5 Stuff; 100/5 = 20. Every 20% Repair require one stuff, less require none.
Door: 25 Stuff; 100/25 = 4. Every 4% Repair require one stuff.
Now it gets interesting multiple Stuff
Auto: 25 Stuff, 40 Steel, 2 Components; 100/ 25 = 4 ; 100 / 40 = 2.5 ; 100 /2 =50;
So Every 2.5 % cost 1 Steel, every 4 % one Stuff, and every 50% one Component
So 50% Damage would require : 1 Component; 20 Steel and 12 Stuff ( 48%, 2% are free ).
Suddenly all Stockpiles are Indoors ;D
With this feature I would suggest a common HP degradation over time, with the
addition of degraded Machines getting a malus on production.
This would replace the breakdown mechanic and limit the bzzzt event to gear under 50% ..
Also it would keep your builders busy and slow down the growth of a colony and a turret killbox would get expensive.
And it is an incentive to trade for raw goods :)
All good points.
Pre A15( please don't nail me to the alpha version, maybe I am off by one ) Repair had its own work priority setting, right next to construction before it was absorbed into construction.
And repairing a wall using 4-5 blocks is basically replacing it. Only automated.
There is also a mod that sets a new Building Designation for when a structure is destroyed completely.
This should be included in the repair/replace suggestion.
====== EDIT ======
when you are low on ressources there should be a toggle to use no materials for repair, or only on selected buildings.
I don't give a frack about your door, Steve, this steel goes into the thermal generator and the cooling system for the freezer, comprende ?
I think the baseline (total HP) should get reduced over time. It is easy to implement, adds more fun and reality to the game.
Yes I agree, resources should be used to repair.
About the post A16, I find it quite weird grouping repair with build priority. Unless were no relevant reasons to do so.
Do developers still read the suggesstion forum?
Yes they do, and post polls .. look at the poll for the a17 release ..
absolutely against items not being able to be repaired to their full ORIGINAL value...no no no no no.
This doesn't actually solve the problem you think it solves. So it's pretty pointless.
It's pretty cool to have colonists sitting behind a door holding it up. It's certainly scary to have raiders beating on a door. Perhaps the only issue is that the repair rate is too fast, but that can be solved by raiders getting bored and setting fire to all your stuff.
If baseline HP (max HP) degrades over time with repair, it would have the effect that player would have to MANUALLY replace all walls at certain intervals.
Quote from: b0rsuk on March 08, 2017, 01:22:49 PM
If baseline HP (max HP) degrades over time with repair, it would have the effect that player would have to MANUALLY replace all walls at certain intervals.
Yes. The real question is whether that would result in an interesting/fun additional game play element.
My opinion is that it would add a new element to the game because the player would have to weigh the risk with weaker walls due to damage vs replacement costs in materials and pawn time. It adds an additional element of randomness to the threat from enemies since the storyteller (I assume) would have no knowledge of the repair condition of your structures. So what would otherwise have been an ordinary raid becomes a fight for survival because part of your defensive structure is still battle-damaged from the last encounter. And it means construction skills remain important throughout the game, rather than having their usefulness decline sharply once a base is complete. I am also speculating that the game re-balance that would be required with this mechanic would allow raid sizes to scale up a little slower and extend the length of the mid-game some.
On the other hand, it might also add a frustration factor because the player has to keep spending resources and time on rebuilding the same things rather than expanding. That might start feeling repetitive and dull. Without being able to play the mechanic, we're all just speculating about how it might impact our personal play styles.
I think manually replacing walls is currently very unfun. Try building initially out of wood then replacing it with stone. It takes a lot of micromanagement. Not only you have to designate some walls for deconstruction. You need to prioritize hauling wood left, because otherwise your constructor will haul wood from stone blueprint one by one, and go for 5 stone after hauling each piece of wood. If you deconstruct everything at the same time, roof will collapse. One more thing you need to oversee.
The title of this thread made me think of something else. Small groups of builders can build ridiculous castles in Rimworld because walls don't need maintenance. I think walls should gradually lose HP, not max HP, just HP. Especially after rain, storms and other harsh weather.
Quote from: b0rsuk on March 14, 2017, 09:38:39 AM
I think manually replacing walls is currently very unfun. Try building initially out of wood then replacing it with stone. It takes a lot of micromanagement. Not only you have to designate some walls for deconstruction. You need to prioritize hauling wood left, because otherwise your constructor will haul wood from stone blueprint one by one, and go for 5 stone after hauling each piece of wood. If you deconstruct everything at the same time, roof will collapse. One more thing you need to oversee.
I agree. There would need to be a task that deconstructed and rebuilt wall blocks in small sets as part of the game mechanic if the above were to be implemented. The way deconstruction and construction are ordered now would cause too much micromanagement to be fun in the current scheme, as you point out.
QuoteThe title of this thread made me think of something else. Small groups of builders can build ridiculous castles in Rimworld because walls don't need maintenance. I think walls should gradually lose HP, not max HP, just HP. Especially after rain, storms and other harsh weather.
I like the idea of weather damage a lot. And I'd be pretty happy with walls only losing HP rather than max HP as long as there was a resource cost to repair back to full.