Sebastian Despy has been a liability to the colony for over a year now. He's a story writer medieval lord, incapable of dumb labor or skilled labor. Which means he spends all his time researching technologies I don't need. He at least can shoot a gun straight so I hadn't killed him off yet...
Except now his worthless son just landed in a drop pod. Incapable of violent, screw that.
So I just stripped Sebastian naked and sent him out to freeze to death next to his son. Two birds, one stone.
Quote from: Shurp on March 28, 2017, 09:42:31 PM
So I just stripped Sebastian naked and sent him out to freeze to death next to his son. Two birds, one stone.
I may have misheard, but what I'm pretty sure you said was that you gave Sebastian an exciting new opportunity to found a family-owned meat-packing business.
Man shurp, you're still this picky? :P
Next time just arrest him, so he is a training partner for your warden.
And your Doc can pratice at him after the whole colony gave him some headnuts once the day.
It helps colonist are so incredibly stupid and lazy. It's hard to relate to them.
Come on, he gave those two guys the manliest bonding experience there is.
They died for their believs .. Together as Father and Son.
Quote from: Greep on March 28, 2017, 10:16:49 PM
Man shurp, you're still this picky? :P
I've gotten better. I now accept 0-skill shooters and hand them a pistol to shoot walls for a while, so long as they're not *prohibited* from farming/mining/etc. I figure they'll be useful at it eventually even if not off the bat. And it has worked beautifully. I now have 14 colonists with assault rifles wiping out the hordes that show up.
Ooops, 13 I mean ;-> Yeah, it was a beautiful bonding experience.
(I discovered that it's easier to convince him to freeze to death if you put a medical sleeping spot and order him to rest until healed as soon as he has frostbite. Just remember to turn off your doctors so they don't run out to treat him)
Quote from: b0rsuk on March 29, 2017, 03:50:25 AM
It helps colonist are so incredibly stupid and lazy. It's hard to relate to them.
Unless they're too smart and very neurotic. But then you hate them more xD
I would've used them for manhunter thrumbo herding in that case ::)
You can choose not to be evil. It usually adds extra difficulty but the option is there. When I get undesirable colonists or some of my guys become undesirable due to a better alternative I just send them to my mining penal colony.
Most of the time I don't even accept people with annoying traits or incapabilities. I'm not even recruiting prisoners anymore, hell I don't even imprison raiders anymore (organ harvesting too profitable). I don't butcher humanlikes either (human leather too profitable). Randy makes sure I get a few poor sods crashing once in a while, sometimes I get a few visitors downed by wildlife or temperature mismatch; those can also offer to join. I tend to keep my individual colonies rather small nowadays.
The trash gets to hit rocks in the mining camp, they form a small community and usually get by. A few beserk breaks here and there helps keeping the population in line. They stay until they expire or until they actually form a stable colony themselves. The camp helps them concentrate on their work.
Quote from: b0rsuk on March 29, 2017, 03:50:25 AM
It helps colonist are so incredibly stupid and lazy. It's hard to relate to them.
I can relate
I just arrest and sell my bad ones into slavery.
Wow, I had a total derp moment just now and read PotatoeTater's post above as:
Quote from: PotatoeTater on March 29, 2017, 10:41:42 AM
I just arrest my smelly and bad ones into slavery.
LOL ;D
Quote from: Shurp on March 29, 2017, 07:01:31 AM
I've gotten better. I now accept 0-skill shooters and hand them a pistol to shoot walls for a while, so long as they're not *prohibited* from farming/mining/etc...
Alternatively, you can have them aim at Rock or Compacted Steel or something, and they (slowly) mine while getting better at shooting. Just have them do it at point blank range to avoid "training accidents". ;)
EDIT - On the original topic, I would argue that the game doesn't *make* you evil, but rather gives you opportunities to express the evil that's already within you. Don't think about that too hard. ;)
[quote author=milon link=topic=31396.msg321919#msg321919
EDIT - On the original topic, I would argue that the game doesn't *make* you evil, but rather gives you opportunities to express the evil that's already within you. Don't think about that too hard. ;)
[/quote]
Why not ?
How often is it, that I wish I could just sell off some co-worker or shoot someone into space ...
So Rimworld only is the opportunity to live out these desires in a save environment.
*going to rename some prisoners*
Quote from: milon on March 29, 2017, 11:29:40 AM
Wow, I had a total derp moment just now and read PotatoeTater's post above as:
Quote from: PotatoeTater on March 29, 2017, 10:41:42 AM
I just arrest my smelly and bad ones into slavery.
LOL ;D
They usually are smelly too :P
I send the craps on a solo caravan to nowhere with zero food . I'm almost positive you miss the colony member died debuff this way.
Is this just me or this game makes you despise lazy people ? Those who spend lots of their time 'idle', because they have literally nothing to do.
I just started playing Rimworld last week, but I've spent years playing Dwarf Fortress. The above all sounds perfectly reasonable to me. What is this "evil" of which you speak?
I have noticed that I'm generally more careful with my pawns than I am with my dorfs, but that's only because there are fewer of them in Rimworld. When you get a new batch every spring and don't have a storyteller trying to put limits on how many you can have, it's easier to shrug it off if one walks in front of a minecart or needs to be used for ‼SCIENCE‼.
Quote from: b0rsuk on March 29, 2017, 04:58:42 PM
Is this just me or this game makes you despise lazy people ? Those who spend lots of their time 'idle', because they have literally nothing to do.
Welcome to the real world, Neo!
Quote from: milon on March 29, 2017, 11:29:40 AM
EDIT - On the original topic, I would argue that the game doesn't *make* you evil, but rather gives you opportunities to express the evil that's already within you. Don't think about that too hard. ;)
I know, I know. I'd throw the trolley switch so hard it would snap off.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolley_problem
QuoteThis game makes you evil
It does not make you Evil, it just shows you the Evil lurking within.
The game makes you hang around with people you despise or hate. It forces bad colonists on you (wanderers, or chased colonists with unknown stats, or rescued people you healed) with no way to refuse and no good way to send them on their way.
In this aspect, Rimworld reminds me of A.D.O.M. That game's author, Thomas Biskup, really likes cats. So he added a side quest, where if you avoid killing any cats for most of the game, you get a very good artifact ring, and you skip a difficult boss enemy (Cat Lord). Sounds fun, right ? Most cats in the game are hostile from the start, often faster than you, and will chase you across entire levels. Seeing a cat at the end of a corridor typically means you have to backtrack, find a room with a door, pull it there, somehow outmanever the cat (by using a loop, Coward mode with low health, etc), lock it inside, and resume the exploration. Or make one of you step on a teleportation trap. Or spend teleportation charges. You will have to do it often. There are not enough rats in the game to pacify cats by feeding them. The bottom line: Thomas Biskup, a fan of cats, made his game's players hate cats. Good job!
And to add insult to the injury:
Quote
You hit something with full force and slay it. [+496xp]
Suddenly the cat's spirit rises from its lifeless body.
Moaning pathetically, it plunges into the ground.
You hear a faint echoing roar filled with hate and sorrow!
Me, chasing down a limping fleeing tribal (who's caravan I massacred so I can get more tribal raids), with a shotgun, only on the off chance that she'll be downed instead of killed.
What?
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
Y'all are just min-maxers. The game is perfectly playable with a colony of useless geezers. You just have to adjust your expectations (or the difficulty setting).
True, I could just play on "Peaceful", but where is the fun in that? I want to have massive shootouts where my well armed and trained soldiers are ganged up 3:1 by rampaging outlanders. Having half a dozen colonists cowering in the corner breaks the mood.
Quote from: b0rsuk on March 30, 2017, 03:43:05 AM
The game makes you hang around with people you despise or hate. It forces bad colonists on you (wanderers, or chased colonists with unknown stats, or rescued people you healed) with no way to refuse and no good way to send them on their way.
You make it sound like Work .. or High School ..
Quote from: SpaceDorf on April 02, 2017, 07:30:57 AM
Quote from: b0rsuk on March 30, 2017, 03:43:05 AM
The game makes you hang around with people you despise or hate. It forces bad colonists on you (wanderers, or chased colonists with unknown stats, or rescued people you healed) with no way to refuse and no good way to send them on their way.
You make it sound like Work .. or High School ..
But I haven't came up with
the idea of forcing lazy and stupid people onto player. When there's some strange annoying part of Rimworld that would be easy to fix, you can bet it was a conscious design idea. Examples: it's bloody hard to capture people instead of killing them, no way to exile colonists, no way to lock doors instead of forbidding them, no item stacking or increased stack capacity, no turning off machines at night or when walking away from worktables.
This backfires in sad and hilarious ways, because you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink. For instance in absence of more humanitarian exile option, people devise schemes to murder undesirable colonists. Prisoners may jailbreak ? Remove a leg (I don't do that, but many people brag about it).
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/ef/d0/33/efd0333b48f4eced39ab5e7c5bbf7a68.jpg) | Quote from: b0rsuk on March 30, 2017, 03:43:05 AM
It forces bad colonists on you (wanderers, or chased colonists with unknown stats, or rescued people you healed) with no way to refuse and no good way to send them on their way.
On the first post (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=31306.0) of the [WIP] Backstories thread is attached a file called Backstories.html, and it's really handy for chased colonists or wanderers that don't present their bio.
I use it like this:- Save a copy to the desktop
- In-game someone comes along who only tells you their main employment.
- Tab out and double-click on the Backstories.html
- It opens in a browser and you can search for that backstory name, and see all the buffs/nerfs
|
That's too much work. Devmode / Destroy Tool is much easier when a trigger-happy pawn shows up.
*click* that's another colonist the pirates will never get.
Quote from: b0rsuk on April 02, 2017, 09:15:27 AM
Quote from: SpaceDorf on April 02, 2017, 07:30:57 AM
The game makes you hang around with people you despise or hate. It forces bad colonists on you (wanderers, or chased colonists with unknown stats, or rescued people you healed) with no way to refuse and no good way to send them on their way.
You make it sound like Work .. or High School ..
You are right in what you are saying, but I think you misunderstood my Joke.
I wanted to express that those places also force all kind of people on you and you have to deal with it ..
And I disagree on the humanity of this decission .. because it is the human way to accept and help other people, regardless of their abilities or failures.
And deciding that some people have to go because of this .. yeap .. this is pretty much one of the definitions of being evil or at least bad, racist or something in that direction. Exile was considered a a punishment worse than death in some cultures ..
Still, the game does not stop you from doing this.
So build all the "Work"- Camps you want .. Americans, Germans and Russians did it .. so it can't be wrong ;D ;D
Or follow the other British/European tradition and call it Colonisation ..
Quote from: milon on March 29, 2017, 11:29:40 AM
EDIT - On the original topic, I would argue that the game doesn't *make* you evil, but rather gives you opportunities to express the evil that's already within you. Don't think about that too hard. ;)
That would be my argument, too. If you're making all your decisions based on your own strategies, anyway.
But you could be a writerly/actorly RP sort, carefully considering what
this particular pawn would do in
this particular situation.
I had Emmy the sex slave come to our colony for sanctuary from the pirates chasing her, once - incapable of violence, but brilliant at medicine and at social skills. We captured some raiders - the same pirates who'd captured and abused her, before she escaped, yes? Another colonist, one of our best shooters but with terrible cataracts, was badly in need of some new eyes, so Emmy, as a skilled surgeon, extracted them from the captured raiders. The other colonists found this a bit unsettling, but y'know... Emmy went through a lot at these guys' hands, and we did get a colonist back in the action for badly needed hunting and defense.
Emmy had absolutely no interest in recruiting these raiders, and they were too hostile to us anyway (90%+), but all her fellow colonists did insist on feeding them. We're not monsters, you know, even though we clearly can't let them go free to attack us again. So when the next caravan passed by, it was Emmy who went out to meet the traders. Do unto others, Emmy said, and next thing the colony knew, those raiders were walking away chained to the back of the caravan. Her friends found this even more unsettling, but... Emmy's been through a lot...
That was my favorite incarnation of Emmy
ever.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on April 02, 2017, 10:17:47 AM
You are right in what you are saying, but I think you misunderstood my Joke.
Rimworld, a game, feels like work. That's okay ?
Quote
And I disagree on the humanity of this decission .. because it is the human way to accept and help other people, regardless of their abilities or failures.
And deciding that some people have to go because of this .. yeap .. this is pretty much one of the definitions of being evil or at least bad, racist or something in that direction. Exile was considered a a punishment worse than death in some cultures ..
Exile is bad next to tolerating a person, NOT bad next to killing him/her. But not everything should be tolerated. Vast majority of cultures around the world have laws. Theft, murder, incest are outlawed very widely. Why ? Because they make human society crumble. Other laws are less universal.
In more struggling communities, laws look different. An old Polish saying, likely originating from peasant class, translates to: "He who doesn't work, doesn't eat." In Africa, it is customary to eat and drink together. This is in part to make sure no one is hogging water or food, because they are scarce resources. Environment shapes ethics and laws. Also, people are more generous in more plentiful environments. If you smile to a stranger in Russia, he might attack you. Randomly smiling = stupid. In contrast, in western Europe people are more trusting and eager to help each other.
If I tolerate a murderer, am I a good person ? What if I tolerate a social parasite ? If I let others take whetever they want from me, anytime ?
Why is the internet full of haters, online games full of teamkillers, griefers of various kinds ? To the point where many team games simply disable team damage and implement soft collisions ?
1. Being anonymous
2. Inability to police ourselves
3. Inability to get to know people due to matchmaking. You don't get to know people in high traffic areas.
Back in the day of dedicated FPS servers, they were mini communities and you got to know people, form likes and dislikes. Many servers had active admins and referees. Also, when people get to know each other, they're less likely to insult one another. We are friendlier to people we know. In online multiplayer games, but also in communities like forums, people are helpless to police themseves. If someone offends me on a street or keeps kicking the basketball out of the field, runs away with it, I can punch him in the face. In an online community, I can sometimes report this to an admin, but this system scales very badly, and servers in matchmaking system often have no admins. Blizzard forums are so infested with angry teenage boys admins are not even trying anymore, they only hit you for the most outrageous behavior.
Whoaa Dude. Chill.
It's okay, that you don't like the joke :)
But getting all defensive, just because I said some actions are more evil than others is a bit out of proportion.
The worst part is that I agree with you on most of your points.
Laws and behavior is formed by the needs of the society.
I am pretty ruthless with raiders myself. The need of my people surely outweight the needs of those assholes that attacked me.
Denying Help is an edge case here, because it is influenced by the abilities of your own people. But all the cultures you mentioned also have a lot of rules about guest rights, their elders and the sick.
I agree that punishing Pawns for being assholes should be possible, but the actual number of pawns that can't contribute at all ( Sheriff ) is pretty small.
That said, I am less sad for some Pawns than others.
And to top up the examples of humans being assholes on the internet :
The behavior of some adult people on Dating Portals is even worse than that of
some Kiddies on the BattleNet.
I no longer do anything with raiders bleeding out simply because a raid puts too much stress on haulers already. I might prevent loss of 2% weapon quality, or I might gain nothing and get a bad mood by ordering a raider finished. Or spend medicine and use beds to heal them, but my people may need healing after a raid too.
Societies have rules about elders because they can contribute in some way. They can dispense advice and do less physically demanding jobs like caring after children. In China, there's a big emphasis on elder respect in part because... there's no retirement money. It's you and your savings. In Rimworld, elders can contribute by providing inferior quality products and lower chance of success. There's no job they're good enough at, maybe except cleaning, and that may change too considering how various jobs got skill requirements for them (growing, construction).
In medieval times, women, children and elders contributed in city wall defense. They could haul stones, arrows, extinguish flames, care to the wounded.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/62/38/61/6238611fb234c9d049bbbe3bb111e140.jpg) | I'd like to offer another perspective on Good, Bad and Evil as it applies to the game universe -- or any universe for that matter. The easiest way is through example, so that we may travel from specific to general.
Muffalos provide meat and wool, the resources to use or trade and enrich our colony. Therefore it is Good to kill muffalos. They also consume rather a lot of greenery, so leaving a herd out to graze can be nearly the same thing as a slow burning forest fire. Too many muffalos can be a Bad thing.
What is this thing called Evil? It is when the player cannot sort out what is good from what is bad, and ends up playing a prank upon themselves. Perhaps they ignore the signs that muffalos eat rather a lot. Or maybe they know that guy they sent to tame muffalos isn't good at it, but fail to reach a sound conclusion and do it anyway.
Evil depends upon what is good and bad in a universe for the lives within it.
Sending someone to the Lab-O-Doom to be harvested for parts would be good if the person was a liability to the colony, and bad if the person was a valuable asset. It is not Evil until the player begins to shoot themselves in the foot by wrecking their world through a desire to cause harm, short-sighted greed, or failure to adapt.
|
Quote from: AngleWyrm on April 02, 2017, 01:03:14 PM
I'd like to offer another perspective on Good, Bad and Evil as it applies to the game universe -- or any universe for that matter. The easiest way is through example, so that we may travel from specific to general.
Muffalos provide meat and wool, the resources to use or trade and enrich our colony. Therefore it is Good to kill muffalos. They also consume rather a lot of greenery, so leaving a herd out to graze can be nearly the same thing as a slow burning forest fire. Too many muffalos can be a Bad thing.
Mufallos provide meat, wool and milk. Hindu culture would be content with just taking wool and milk. Surprisingly many people live in India. It's Christian and Chinese to use animals purely as resources. In China, it's taken to extreme, for example Alice in Wonderland was (and maybe still is?) banned, with the reasoning given "Animals shouldn't be presented as equal to humans."
Human Ressources ...
there we are ...
finally the right definition of evil I was looking for.
Those Pawns in the game represent People. Not real people, true, but for the sake of their story .. they are People.
Treating them as less is were evil begins for me.
Treating people bad with intention and without cause is evil.
Thats the base of Religion and Laws.
Thats also the basis to why it is okay to kill or kick out that stupid shithead who burned down the devilstrand stockpile.
Quote from: Tammabanana on April 02, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
That was my favorite incarnation of Emmy ever.
You know, this gives me an idea. I wonder if there's any way to select named colonists to build a colony with... could make for an interesting playthrough.
Quote from: Shurp on April 02, 2017, 02:49:09 PM
Quote from: Tammabanana on April 02, 2017, 11:34:22 AM
That was my favorite incarnation of Emmy ever.
You know, this gives me an idea. I wonder if there's any way to select named colonists to build a colony with... could make for an interesting playthrough.
Hmmm. Randomize until you get the named colonists you want, I guess? As one step further, Prepare Carefully could then let you tweak them.
There's an Options menu with a place to specify Named pawns that you want to see...
Quote from: milon on April 03, 2017, 08:18:19 AM
There's an Options menu with a place to specify Named pawns that you want to see...
Somebody told me a while back that name button is for those who supported the creation of the game during it's Kick-starter campaign.
Nope, it increases the odds of a specific Named pawn showing up in your game, like poor Emmy the sex slave or Red the hunter guy or Engie the Engineer (those are the most common ones that I've seen but there's WAY more).
But honestly, I could be mistaken - I haven't tried it out yet. ;)
Quote from: milon on April 03, 2017, 11:28:53 AM
But honestly, I could be mistaken - I haven't tried it out yet. ;)
You're not mistaken! I used it to hunt down that pesky bad magician, what a horrible human being
Wait a second, a few posts above I meant that exile is perhaps bad compared to tolerating a person, but good next to killing him.
What about all the players who train Medicine a'la Doctor Mengele ? Install a peg leg, remove a peg leg. Repeat.
That is true ...
And I am not above the good old "eye for an eye"
If some frickin' uninvited guests cost the chosen people limbs and organs and happen to leave some replacements behind .. who am I to to refuse such a kind offering.
But I never intentionally kill a prisoner or survivor. I heal and release or recruit all of them.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/b0/0d/fa/b00dfa989699d77650d0917358dda062.jpg) | Fabio the Carpenter
He seemed like a good deal; I knew he'd have good bonuses in construction, crafting and artistry, and a little nerf to mining. And since I was on a small hills biome that combination was going to be an asset. So yeah, I said sure come on over.
Turns out he was a raging alcoholic with an addiction to go-juice. Ewwww. The visitors had some methadone (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=24648.0) which helped with the go-juice addiction, but didn't help with the alcoholism. He spent every day wandering around at a snail's pace on the brink of a major break risk.
Finally at our next staff meeting (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=29847.0) I decided to conduct an informal survey (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16120.0) (relations tab) and discovered our doctor hated him. So we had to do something.
Hey Fabio, I have a special mission for you. It's a bit dangerous, but you look like a tough guy. Here's a week's rations, some assorted goodies to sell, and an extra male forest fairy (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=31009.0) to keep you company. So head on over to that nearby town and sell them thar goodies, k?
I'm hoping he meets some wildlife along the way :D |
@anglewyrm : your posts often has these pics of hot babes.
i wish there was a "like" button coz damn, they are hot.
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/a4/66/5d/a4665d7559f05c2e36e9de5eaad2e570.jpg) | Thanks
Just think of me as the wife I speak through |
Quote from: Shurp on April 01, 2017, 09:56:21 AM
True, I could just play on "Peaceful", but where is the fun in that? I want to have massive shootouts where my well armed and trained soldiers are ganged up 3:1 by rampaging outlanders. Having half a dozen colonists cowering in the corner breaks the mood.
If what you really want is masive battles, why not set up custom scenarios or use dev mode to spawn things in? I mean, the actual combat is a pretty small part of the Rimworld experience IMO, but you
can set it up as more of a large-scale RTS if you want. It just doesn't run very well and it's not really what it was designed to do.
Rimworld already generates plenty of mobs to shoot. My complaint is that I would rapidly run out of colonists to shoot them with if I didn't regularly exterminate Trigger-Happy / non-Violent / Pyromaniac / etc. wannabe colonists.
My colony already has plenty of doctors, smiths, researchers, and such. What I need so that people aren't milling about aimlessly are pawns who can shoot, garden, and mine. I have dropped my standards to allow for zero skill in each, and I now have lots of "good" pawns as a result!
That's really made me carzy 8) 8) 8)
So I'm practicing a little thread necro because something funny just happened in my latest game. Useless would-be colonists have been dropping from the sky left and right and I've been letting them die. But then I see this message:
Escape pod (relationship)
"Oh crap," I think, "I'm going to have to save this one." And indeed Twiddle is incapable of Violent, but has plenty of other traits that make me think keeping her around won't be so bad. Then I go to the social tab to check out what the relationship is.
Ex-husband Ryan -15
Wait a second, I'm going to get a mood *boost* if I let her die? Sorry Twiddle, today's not your lucky day!