Abstract
Decembary, Aprimay, Jugust, Septober have all replaced traditional season names; and, sparked a small debate in the process.
Some, myself included, aren't really too fond of these mashed month names. Not only do they take away from the transparency of the game, and thus inhibiting a player's ability to determine what steps they need to take in order to prepare for the weather coming ahead. They also sound really silly if you say them out loud (IMO). I appreciate the creativity that went into coming up with these names, but I don't see them as the proper fit.
I've created this thread as a way to brainstorm possible solutions/alternatives without flooding the thread Tynan made for feedback about the unstable branch build(s).
Feel free to add your own suggestions and upvote any suggestions you like, and I'll try to keep track of it in this original post.
I'd like to start by making the following suggestions:
0) A17 Original (2)
Format: Decembary, Aprimay, Jugust, Septober | 15 days each
1) "Quarters" (1)
Format: 1st Quarter, 2nd Quarter, 3rd Quarter, 4th Quarter | 15 days each
2) Equinox and Solstice (1)
Format: 1st Equinox, 1st Solstice, 2nd Equinox, 2nd Solstice | 15 days each
3) Standard 12 Month Cycle (Earthly) (1)
Format: January, February, March, April, May, June, July, August, September, October, November, December | 5 days each
Added suggestions:
4) Standard 12 Month Cycle (Alternate) (1)
Format: Janose, Febrose, Marchose, Aprial, Mayal, Junal, Julidor, Augidor, Septidore, Octaire, Novaire, Decaire | 5 days each
5) Latin Ordinal Numbers (3)
Format: Primus, Secundus, Tertius, Quartus | 15 days each
6) Greek (2)
Format: Arche, Deuteros, Mesos, Telos | 15 days each
7) Latin Season Counterparts (1)
Format: Vêr, Aestâs, Mutatio, Hiems | 15 days each
*Edit* Tynan has addressed my concerns here so please disregard my comments.
I'll summarize in my own words:
The goal should be to easily identify and predict weather patterns based on the 'seasons' or 'months' presented to you. This would obviously change based on your world location as Spring in the Northern hemisphere would be Fall in the Southern.
Thoughts:
If the realism is the target here, then when playing a nomad type game (IE traveling to the friendly AI), when the North is experiencing Winter, the South should be in Summer. Around the equator would remain fairly consistent with the hottest periods being during the equinoxes.
This provides an enormous task in designing clarity for the player. The equator does not have seasons in the typical sense, rather they would have wet/dry seasons instead. So how do you design a system that is as easily understandable as possible with minimal gameplay?
Possible Solution:
The names aren't really an issue here. Sure they sound odd, but that chan be changed easily enough if needed. Perhaps the 'Months' could remain with the 'Seasons' in parentheses and add a note in the Tool Tip or Mouse Hover that seasons would flip once crossing the equator.
This would be intuitive to the player in almost every case except (maybe) if they were travelling in a slight zig zag pattern East to West on the equator. With each new map they entered the seasons would jump from say Spring to Fall. But seeing as the weather should be fairly consistent on the equator it would not affect predictability that much.
Additional Thoughts:
Aside from all this, a quick google search has revealed possible alternative names for the 'Months' I tried searching for alternative season names but could not find anything useful.
Janum - Janose
Februm - Febrose
Marcha - Marchose
Aprilum - Aprial
Mayum - Mayal
Juna - Junal
Julum - Julidor
Augustum - Augidor
Septa - Septidor
Octum - Octaire
Novum - Novaire
Deca - Decaire
What I notice in the second set of suggestions is that Winter months end in OSE, Spring in AL, Summer in IDOR, and Fall in AIRE.
Would it really just take 5 days to determine weather trend with standard months? I highly doubt weather will change enough to know the weather trend in just five days, meaning it'll probably take the same amount of time to determine the weather trend regardless of format.
Also, tynan said :We can't use seasons as a calendar because they're different per-region. Tropical and polar regions don't have the four seasons, they have wet/dry or no seasons at all. And of course other planets may have no seasons. Etc
Meaning the system isn't supposed to just work with the standard 4-season system, but anything from 1 season and up.
For example, what if it's a planet with spring-like weather year long? What if it's a planet that's half-spring, half-summer? What if it's 3/5th spring and 2/5th winter? Or 1/5th spring, 2/5th summer, 2/5th winter? You'll need to run the entire season to determine the weather trend, no way around it.
Hmm, now that I think about it through, this makes the 'standard month' format the best since each month is 1/12th a year, which means you can separate months into seasons better like 'Sept~oct is fall' rather than 'the first 2/3rd of the 3rd quarter is fall'
Personally, I think it'll be best if there was something like a 'galactic calendar' to show how long it's been since we landed here, and a 'season' marker below that.
The season marker would have something like
Before you mouse over it)
Current season: Mild, rainy
After you mouse over it)
Current season:
Mild, rainy
X days since the start of the season/X days till the next season
Next season:
Cold, dry
Quote from: O Negative on May 06, 2017, 04:53:47 AM1) Quarters (0)
Format: 1st Quarter, 2nd Quarter, 3rd Quarter, 4th Quarter | 15 days each
I would not like to see numbers in names of quarters. "4th day of 4th quarter" is kind of difficult to perceive. I would prefer something like "primus/secundus/tertius/quartus" because of that.
Quote from: O Negative on May 06, 2017, 04:53:47 AM1st Equinox, 1st Solstice, 2nd Equinox, 2nd Solstice | 15 days each
This one might be problematic because of equinox/soltice is bound to place on planet. Also numbers in name.
But I like that this one because it is bound to astronomy, which looks suitable for this game.
My thinking for naming the quarters boils to these:
1. Forget who's idea, but latin (or latin sounding) names: Primus, Secondus, etc.
2. Random gibberish names, but have them in alphabetical order starting with A, B, C, and D so it becomes somewhat intrinsic quickly.
for instance:
Quarter1: Aberscombe
Quarter2: Beliwax
Quarter3: Clattle
etc...
I'm enjoying all of the thoughts and feedback you guys have given so far. Thank you for offering up your ideas!
I went ahead and updated the original post to include some of the new suggestions, and deleted the pros/cons lists because of a few reasons. One being that I felt like I was showing my biases in them, and I'd like to avoid that entirely if I can. Haha.
This is one of those subjects that I feel has so many potential solutions, and it might just be left to the modding community to explore them upon release, given how close it feels we are to the A17 release. I mean, people were upset enough about megatherium being turned into megasloth...
At the end of the day, as long as players (new and old) have a reliable way of determining some kind of weather trend, I'm content :D
My concern is not so much with the names of the seasons (though I really like the latin suggestions!) but that seasons are now called quadrums. Many ancient earth calendars recognized there were 4 seasons. Even for civilizations living close to the equator. And in modern times we refer to the holiday season and peak season and shoulder season which are not necessarily tied to weather. So I don't think it is confusing to stick to calling each 15 day period a season.
How do you think about the greek numbers (alpha, beta, gamma, delta)?
But the Latin Ordinal Numbers are also good.
*Edit* Tynan has addressed my concerns here so please disregard my comments.
The names of the seasons are irrelevant imo. What is really needed is an intuitive way to predict the current and future weather, regardless of your position on the world.
I cannot think of an easy solution for this. The previous system worked fine as you knew when Fall started in colder biomes, that your crops would soon die and temperatures would drop. As in when summer started in warmer biomes you could expect the temperature to rise to dangerous levels. But this system did not work in the way that Northern and Southern hemispheres would be reversed.
I understand Tynan wanting to have one 'Month' or 'Quadrant' name that will be the same everywhere. But in this you loose the predictability that came easily with the seasons system.
Rather than attempting to rename the quadrants, maybe first we should work on a system to inform the player what to expect for temperature and weather in the days ahead. In this, I am at a loss.
Alpha, Beta, etc. are actually Greek letters.
I also thought of using Greek. How about:
Arche
Deuteros
Mesos
Telos
Quote from: ArguedPiano on May 06, 2017, 02:39:43 PM
The names of the seasons are irrelevant imo. What is really needed is an intuitive way to predict the current and future weather, regardless of your position on the world.
I cannot think of an easy solution for this. The previous system worked fine as you knew when Fall started in colder biomes, that your crops would soon die and temperatures would drop. As in when summer started in warmer biomes you could expect the temperature to rise to dangerous levels. But this system did not work in the way that Northern and Southern hemispheres would be reversed.
I understand Tynan wanting to have one 'Month' or 'Quadrant' name that will be the same everywhere. But in this you loose the predictability that came easily with the seasons system.
Rather than attempting to rename the quadrants, maybe first we should work on a system to inform the player what to expect for temperature and weather in the days ahead. In this, I am at a loss.
Warning letters like those already in the game would work fine for alerting players to the changing seasons. Can't remember now if I got one in the A17 game I started or not. But I think a letter at the start of each season would help players figure out what climate they've settled in. Ditto the "need warm clothing" alert. Or even a "need cool clothing" (not sure if that one exists yet).
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 05:07:03 PM
Equatorial climates typically have two seasons - wet and dry.
Currently the game only outputs the 4 temperate seasons, but I'd like for it to actually name the local seasons more accurately. There would be 3 basic regimes:
--4 seasons
--Wet and dry season
--No seasons (desert, high polar regions)
There are probably others as well. I'd have to do some research.
Anyway the upshot is that you really cannot use this sort of local climactic pattern as a global calendar.
But you do need a global calendar. The main options I see are:
-Quadrum names as now
-Use real month names and skip 2/3
-Some other quadrum names (maybe latinized numbers - unumber, duember, etc or something better).
-1st quarter, 2nd quarter
-No month or quadrums, just use "1st day of year", "23rd day of year", etc.
I'm happy for suggestions but just asking to have seasons without any dating system will leave quite a few unsolvable problems.
Looks like Tynan has been considering the issues I have mentioned in this thread. So I will retract my previous statements and concerns and help brainstorm quartum names.
I really like Rimrue's idea of using Greek names: Arche, Deuteros, Mesos, Telos.
Google translates them to: Top (or beginning), Second, Average, End
They sound interesting and fit well in what they represent.
For weather I still believe a rotating stacked bar chart is a viable solution - you can model any basic climate by temperature and precipitation (without giving it a name) and it is completely hemisphere independent.
For time - an adjusted Julian date calendar (day one is when you crash land).
Nice to see this thread :)
I originally thought that the problem would be much simpler, but when I dug into it I found it's actually quite difficult and complicated. I get the sense that this complexity is coming through in these discussions as well. "Quadrums" and names like "Aprimay" seem really dumb - but it's damn hard to come up with anything decisively better!
I may still rename the quadrums, but my sense of it is that it's going to end up being 4 quadrums (with whatever names).
The key advantage of the month-mashed names is that you can tell what they correspond to in real life. Names like "Teritus" are totally abstract and don't leverage any pre-existing knowledge the player may have. When is Jugust? North-hemisphere summer, obviously. When is Secundus? Heck if I know.
That said I think the Latin names sound cooler in a way. They're nicer aesthetically but worse informationally IMO.
Regarding seasons, I think that communicating the date is a different problem from communicating the season. These things can't both be solved in one system. So the latest update of the game communicates season more prominently on the date tooltip, and I'll be checking to ensure the "season X has begun" messages are firing correctly. But the real takeaway is that there isn't a way to make one system that communicates both date and season.
Personally, I think the change from Spring, Sunmer, Fall, and Winter to Primus, Secundus, Tertius, and Quartus is more intuitive than the mashed up month names. But I could be in the minority (I usually am. Lol)
Also, how is Secundus any less informational than Quadrum? Lol
Quote from: Rimrue on May 06, 2017, 06:08:55 PMAlso, how is Secundus any less informational than Quadrum? Lol
Let me put your question in context.
"How is January any less informational than month?"
That's my point. Neither is anymore informational than the other. It's all about context. Also read my comments in the other thread and you will see why I was teasing Tynan about it. Lol
Im fine with Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter.
Personally i think its the easest to read and understand.
Something interesting I just realised about my own personal playthroughs is that I almost never rotate the planet to select a southern hemisphere tile to play on. The only time I ever end up in the southern hemisphere is when I play a random landing spot playthrough.
The only reason I bring this up is because I think it's is the only reason I never noticed the flipped seasons thing Tynan is trying to address here.
I'll try to keep track of all of the new suggestions I can, but there's only so much I can do on my work breaks, haha. :)
I did not figure out the reasoning for Aprimay/Jugust, and realised I too mostly play northern stuff. You can always assign a colonist to throw molotovs light wood on fire to keep warm in a solar flare/coldsnap/volcanic winter, but a solar flare/heatwave combo can spell unavoidable doom for an established colony "just because" you didn't have camelhair dusters for 70°C (yes, I am aware of passive coolers).
I'd be fine with Quarter 1, Quarter 2, etc. As long as I can tell the cold months from the warm months (tooltip or whatever), that's all I need.
Some languages just literally number the months, so "Aprimay" would just translate to "4-5" unless the translator themself wants to come up with clever names.
Jafema (Janfebma)
Apmaju
Jugsep (Julaugsep / Jugusept / Jugusep)
Ocnodec (Octnovdec / Ocnod)
Or every 5 days have a full moon, and then ... haha just kidding.
What if, and I am serious on this, only tribals had access to the calendar at start? New Arrivals would start with just a days since arrived counter and the year.
Then, when you meet your first visitors or trade caravan, they explain the whatever-day calendar system for the planet (a different version for permanent condition: climate cycle), fill you in on the seasons and timezone of the region you're in, and then you get a countdown to next seasonal change in your hover-tooltip with emphasis on growing period. You know, similar to how you don't have a faction or colony name until one of your pawns suggests it via popup.
This would allow months to actually be different per planet, while explaining the emphasis on the local tile season, and allow the devs to throw a variety of random month names in there.
Could allow some humorous or challenging events:
- Trade ships bringing the wrong supplies for your local season (parkas right as winter ends?)
- Daylight or darkness seasons depending on extreme poles.
- Caravan informing you that eclipses are on a schedule, giving you a countdown hover tooltip. Maybe an extra large manhunter pack happens because you've been warned.
- Caravans coming through in Happy-New-Year-party mode that differs from when you landed.
- Misleading month names like Frostmourn, Harvestia, or Budshoot that really don't apply to your zone.
I think RimWorld should just adopt the French Republican Calendar and Decimal time system. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Republican_Calendar
It's about 3:82 (Paris Time) on the 18th of Floreal.
The only problem I can foresee with this is that the Jacobin months are all blatantly Northern in their naming convention, since Thermidor is not the hot month for everybody. But you can at least differentiate between month names and seasons.
Then again, what we really need are good names for the 4 equal divisions of the year.
The real fun begins if you try to make a system that takes into account the Eccentricity of an elliptical orbit and its alignment relative to the Axial Tilt. Did you know that on earth, the Solstices and Equinoxes are not evenly spaced? :o
.................
Oh! What about names based on Roman Fractions?
1st Quarter: Quadrans
2nd Quarter: Semis
3rd Quarter: Dodrans
4th Quarter: Completus
.................
The more I think about various naming schemes, the better I come to like Decembary/Aprimay/Jugust/Septober.
Quirky half-assed names that highlight the struggle of our colonists to make sense of this new world.
.................
Or maybe take a page from Dwarf Fortress and name the seasons after stones and minerals?
Wood
Stone
Metal
Plasteel
"On the 7th day of Plasteel, we were attacked by a maddened swarm of Boomrats."
I second the use of naming the seasons their Latin counterparts
vêr spring
aestâs summer
autumnum fall
hiems winter
Quote from: Neotic on May 07, 2017, 05:44:43 AM
I second the use of naming the seasons their Latin counterparts
vêr spring
aestâs summer
autumnum fall
hiems winter
This would make "Autumnun" Springtime in the southern hemisphere. I think the idea was to find names that are hemisphere-neutral.
Going on on Hans Lemurson's note about eccentricity, it would be fun to have this parameter in the planet generation besides "overall low or high temperature".
The quarters would depend on eccentricity ( http://www-mars.lmd.jussieu.fr/mars/time/solar_longitude.html ) and you could have short scorching hot summmers and long freezing winters.
Gameplay wise climate cycles do the job, sort of, but it's not natural.
Borealis is Latin for northern and australis is Latin for southern, so Borealis and Australis could potentially be the names for the seasons corresponding to northern hemisphere summer and southern hemisphere summer.
Well hey now, if that doesn't sound completely awesome and simultaneously solve the hemisphere issue ...
Secundus Borealis would spell summer for the north, while southern folks would see Secundus Australis being their winter.
Aprimay has a definite connotation that anyone on earth already understands...northern hemisphere folks intrinsically understand "spring" and southern intrinsically understand "fall"
"April", "May", "Aprimay", and "Maypril" all work just fine. EVERYONE understands that they're referring to the times of year corresponding to april and may on earth. Earthlike planets would have conditions similar to earth at that time.
"1st quarter", "Primus", or "Gobbledyguck" don't have that intrinsic understanding built in.
I argue that the comfort and familiarity is a big help for the "Aprimay" system. I ALSO argue that the possibility of "Aprimay" to be jarringly wrong (you settled in the southern hemisphere of an earthlike planet while you live in earth's northern hemisphere IRL, so spring is fall now) HELPS enrich the game, and gives you that moment of "Oh! i get it now! thats cool!"
I would be fine with Tynan keeping Aprimay, or changing it to April or May, but would be disappointed to see the quadrums receive nonsense names or names with no current real world association that naturally comes to mind (the impersonal "1st quarter...")
Limdood makes a solid point, but suggestions by The Man with No Name and ymc are evocative enough that I'm changing my vote.
Although, Secundus Borealis/Australis seem kind of lengthy; My only complaint.
Quote from: Limdood on May 07, 2017, 12:23:42 PM
Aprimay has a definite connotation that anyone on earth already understands...northern hemisphere folks intrinsically understand "spring" and southern intrinsically understand "fall"
"April", "May", "Aprimay", and "Maypril" all work just fine. EVERYONE understands that they're referring to the times of year corresponding to april and may on earth. Earthlike planets would have conditions similar to earth at that time.
"1st quarter", "Primus", or "Gobbledyguck" don't have that intrinsic understanding built in.
I argue that the comfort and familiarity is a big help for the "Aprimay" system. I ALSO argue that the possibility of "Aprimay" to be jarringly wrong (you settled in the southern hemisphere of an earthlike planet while you live in earth's northern hemisphere IRL, so spring is fall now) HELPS enrich the game, and gives you that moment of "Oh! i get it now! thats cool!"
I would be fine with Tynan keeping Aprimay, or changing it to April or May, but would be disappointed to see the quadrums receive nonsense names or names with no current real world association that naturally comes to mind (the impersonal "1st quarter...")
That's pretty much where I ended up too (after going through the same chain of reasoning as this discussion privately :p).
Quote from: Hans Lemurson on May 07, 2017, 05:48:25 AM
Quote from: Neotic on May 07, 2017, 05:44:43 AM
I second the use of naming the seasons their Latin counterparts
vêr spring
aestâs summer
autumnum fall
hiems winter
This would make "Autumnun" Springtime in the southern hemisphere. I think the idea was to find names that are hemisphere-neutral.
okay if the problem is Autumnun is to similar to Autumn how about it's replaced with the latin word for change "mutatio" since summer to winter is a change. so it would be
vêr spring
aestâs summer
mutatio (change)fall
hiems winter
I think we have a winner.
[attachment deleted by admin due to age]
These names sound incredibly foolish, bordering on the absurd. My 3 year old niece would look askance at these mish-mashed words.
What, pray tell, is 'wrong" with Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter?
Quote from: Boston on May 07, 2017, 06:11:27 PM
These names sound incredibly foolish, bordering on the absurd. My 3 year old niece would look askance at these mish-mashed words.
What, pray tell, is 'wrong" with Spring, Summer, Autumn and Winter?
Could you please read the thread? These words are totally unusable as a global date system, and the reason why has been explained.
I think the Decembary thing sounds a bit silly. I'm not all that hung up on the naming though. What I want to know at a glance without mousing over a tooltip or trying to remember which hemisphere my base is in is what season it is. So something like this Quarter 1 - Summer. The season should be specific to the current base. So While it shows Quarter 1 - Summer for my southern base it'll show Quarter 1 - Winter for my northern base.
Yeah, maybe we'll start showing season by default. We'll see. It'd require another line though. Usually season is pretty obvious just from looking at the map though. Plus there are the "season starting" messages. But it might get added. Probably not in A17 though.
I appreciate your efforts on a seemingly small complaint. Surely there are more important things you could be focusing your efforts on. I think it's great you actively listen to and interact with the community you've created. Keep up the good work!
Thanks Piano.
Looking back on this, I think the issue is rather trivial. I guess it's just one of those immersive small details that got broken for me.
If I might make a small suggestion, to allow the modding community to easily change the <label> of each quadrum's name in some kind of (.xml) def file.
Can't say I know if it's possible via .dll, but even letting novice modders in on the opportunity would be great.
I feel like this might offer you a greater insight as to which names people are and are not fond of with respect to naming.
You could use the Steam Workshop numbers and even your own forum(s) as a powerful tool for data collection.
The best part of it all is that you wouldn't have to waste your focus on this issue for a while (A18, perhaps?)
For now, I think the changes you've made to the UI (shared by ymc) are more than sufficient for most of us. :D
Modders can change any text in the game using xml files, through the translation system.
Quote from: Tynan on May 07, 2017, 07:57:23 PM
Yeah, maybe we'll start showing season by default. We'll see. It'd require another line though. Usually season is pretty obvious just from looking at the map though. Plus there are the "season starting" messages. But it might get added. Probably not in A17 though.
When I'm on an extreme cold or hot map, I can't identify the season by looking at the map and I don't get the "season has begun" message (because the seasons are deemed not meaningful). But I
do still care about the season - specifically, I care about whether it's currently getting colder or hotter, and how close I am to the peak temperature days
Quote from: Zhentar on May 07, 2017, 10:17:14 PM
Modders can change any text in the game using xml files, through the translation system.
Welp, you're absolutely right! The file path is: .../RimWorld/Mods/Core/Languages/English/Keyed/Time.xml
That's my own ignorance at work. Thanks for letting me know though! I'll probably tinker with this on my own free time & in my own playthroughs.
Quote from: Tynan on May 06, 2017, 05:35:07 PM
I may still rename the quadrums, but my sense of it is that it's going to end up being 4 quadrums (with whatever names).
The key advantage of the month-mashed names is that you can tell what they correspond to in real life. Names like "Teritus" are totally abstract and don't leverage any pre-existing knowledge the player may have. When is Jugust? North-hemisphere summer, obviously. When is Secundus? Heck if I know.
That said I think the Latin names sound cooler in a way. They're nicer aesthetically but worse informationally IMO.
Regarding seasons, I think that communicating the date is a different problem from communicating the season. These things can't both be solved in one system. So the latest update of the game communicates season more prominently on the date tooltip, and I'll be checking to ensure the "season X has begun" messages are firing correctly. But the real takeaway is that there isn't a way to make one system that communicates both date and season.
I think having two systems, one for dating and one for giving information about climate would be best solution.
I don't think re-using our calendar is a good idea, it's based on the earth and conveys too much extra information depending on where people live they might expect the months to mean anything when they're just portioning the rim world year into sections.
It might be good to plan ahead for potentially allowing variance in the length of a year when naming things. For some strange reason every rimworld is the same currently, but considering it's an alien planet it would make sense if there was some variance - for example, on some rim worlds a year could take 120 days, on some 60 like now, on others only 30. Not sure if this planned to be added in the future, but I think it would be a nice touch and make for interesting game play. (longer or shorter hot/cold seasons).
For that reason I would not use the word "quadrum" as a replacement for month as it always implies having fourth sections. Not sure what a good replacement would be though, perhaps month would/do still, but it still has the same problem that people associate our current date system with it. Though some more educated people might know that there actually are different types of months.
Latin ordinal names (OP's option 5 here) might be good solution for the name of quadrums/months/etc since you could extend them as needed and they don't have much extra meaning attached to them other then being first, the second, etc. Or just numbers instead of names.
As for climate, I would add a separate tool tip/section below the date that denotes the current climate(s). Something like hot season/cold season/growing season/rain season/summer/winter/etc. I think the advantage here would be that you can always specifically show the current climate(s) the player is in depending on the location of the player and how long they'd last. So people could see that they have a very long cold season in Boreal Forest, and only a relatively short warm season.
Overall this adds more flexibility to the system as well. For example if there was be an option for a rotation locked planet (one side faces always the sun) in the future, it would always be hot (always day) on side of the planet and cold on the other side (always night), resulting in mostly year-round seasons.
I specifically mentioned multiple seasons in case there might be some interesting overlaps. For example climate-cycle enabled stories, it could show the planet is currently going through a cold/warming up/hot/cooling down period in addition to the regular seasons.
Quote from: Rimrue on May 06, 2017, 06:08:55 PM
Personally, I think the change from Spring, Sunmer, Fall, and Winter to Primus, Secundus, Tertius, and Quartus is more intuitive than the mashed up month names. But I could be in the minority (I usually am. Lol)
Also, how is Secundus any less informational than Quadrum? Lol
I actually like this one the most. It is easy to understand, sounds good and fits the sci fi theme.
Quote from: Ouroboros on May 08, 2017, 10:12:43 AM
Quote from: Rimrue on May 06, 2017, 06:08:55 PM
Personally, I think the change from Spring, Sunmer, Fall, and Winter to Primus, Secundus, Tertius, and Quartus is more intuitive than the mashed up month names. But I could be in the minority (I usually am. Lol)
Also, how is Secundus any less informational than Quadrum? Lol
I actually like this one the most. It is easy to understand, sounds good and fits the sci fi theme.
I agree with all of that as well.
I suggest... Remove it. Have things spawn and leave based on temp.
Have the system make a graph of what the temp should be at throughout the year then apply modifiers to that based on location, etc
In real life for me, spring can come early or late. The first of winter is in the dead of winter. In alberta, canada I have see it snow whenever it wants. I think season can mean nothing.
In Rimworld, as in life, the seasons are largely a guideline, I've noticed. They give you an idea what to expect, without being solid predictors. I've had snows into early spring, as well as freezing temperatures that have killed crops, heatwaves in late spring or early autumn.
Though, to be fair, I don't recall any unseasonably mild days in winter, or cool days in summer, but when each season is only 15 days long, I suppose those brief periods of mild days probably just need to go.
I am strongly against the suggestions to remove seasonal indicators. Given that they're only guidelines anyway, it's nice to have a quick shorthand to let you know what to expect, and when, and to be able to plan (or fail to plan). A chart I have to go look at to get the same information is the opposite of user-friendly, and would add no significant value to the game.
Quote from: AllenWL on May 06, 2017, 08:36:50 AM
Personally, I think it'll be best if there was something like a 'galactic calendar' to show how long it's been since we landed here, and a 'season' marker below that.
The season marker would have something like
Before you mouse over it)
Current season: Mild, rainy
After you mouse over it)
Current season:
Mild, rainy
X days since the start of the season/X days till the next season
Next season:
Cold, dry
I would suggest modifying the above to something like this:
Before you mouse over it:
Day 11, Quarter 2, Year 5501
Current season: Mild, rainy
After you mouse over it:
Day 11, Quarter 2, Year 5501
Current season:
Mild, rainy (Seasonal average temperatures max/min = 65F/40F)
Growing season - Day 1 through Day 12
Next season:
Cold, dry (Seasonal average temperatures max/min = 45F/22F)
Growing season - None
As a person crashing on to a planet:
Time for us would be some form of Universal Standard Time. An arbitrary clock completely devoid of any planet related items. This is the clock we would all have and use as familiar and standard. Likely a day ### or an arbitrary month. Space travel would wreak havoc on trying to keep Earth time. A whole Universe on GMT with all of the time zones still happening on good old Earth..? All the Planets having to get their own time zones as well..? Nightmares. Corporations would push for standardized times for contracts and deliveries, Military for operations. Universal Standard Time would be a thing. New planets would have a "G"MT and zones off it just as in the game.
One of the very first things any crash survivor would have to find out is what season it is. That information should be something the player has to find out. The fact it's automatic and conveniently follows ANY earthly pattern from any climate or zone is way too convenient.
Make it a mystery to solve. Use the UST, but have the months/seasons etc come from the planet itself.
Names as a simple text string called from a list of names.
-Every planet would have different months.
-Every planet could have different seasons.
-Example: Some planets may have volcanic activity that makes the equatorial regions hot and dry all "year".
-Some may not have any and require the player to keep track of the UST and fill in the blanks.
Upon visits/trade from the other factions or through trade via caravan details of the months and growing seasons can be gleaned.
The LAST thing I want to see if I'm being honest is Earth or Latin or mashed up names. The planet and it's inhabitants were here long before we were. I find quite hard to believe they named anything in Latin.
And maybe they all have 6 fingers and 6 toes, so for them there are SIX SIXTHS and no quarters at all...
Cheers..!
Quote from: Doc Savage NDMF on May 08, 2017, 02:07:33 PM
As a person crashing on to a planet:
Time for us would be some form of Universal Standard Time. An arbitrary clock completely devoid of any planet related items. This is the clock we would all have and use as familiar and standard. Likely a day ### or an arbitrary month. Space travel would wreak havoc on trying to keep Earth time. A whole Universe on GMT with all of the time zones still happening on good old Earth..? All the Planets having to get their own time zones as well..? Nightmares. Corporations would push for standardized times for contracts and deliveries, Military for operations. Universal Standard Time would be a thing. New planets would have a "G"MT and zones off it just as in the game.
One of the very first things any crash survivor would have to find out is what season it is. That information should be something the player has to find out. The fact it's automatic and conveniently follows ANY earthly pattern from any climate or zone is way too convenient.
Make it a mystery to solve. Use the UST, but have the months/seasons etc come from the planet itself.
Names as a simple text string called from a list of names.
-Every planet would have different months.
-Every planet could have different seasons.
-Example: Some planets may have volcanic activity that makes the equatorial regions hot and dry all "year".
-Some may not have any and require the player to keep track of the UST and fill in the blanks.
Upon visits/trade from the other factions or through trade via caravan details of the months and growing seasons can be gleaned.
The LAST thing I want to see if I'm being honest is Earth or Latin or mashed up names. The planet and it's inhabitants were here long before we were. I find quite hard to believe they named anything in Latin.
And maybe they all have 6 fingers and 6 toes, so for them there are SIX SIXTHS and no quarters at all...
Cheers..!
If you are saying every planet should also have a random orbit length (year) and number of lunar cycles (months - how does multiple moons affect that), I agree that would be awesome. Wonder if that is doable or just to much hassle code wise for somewhat little gain.
Disregarding moons due to the possibility of multiple moons, having quarters starts to actually make more sense. With axis tilt and elliptical orbits, quarters would be seemingly inevitable. Wonder if there are any real planets with an actual circle for an orbit or that spin completely perpendicular to their respective star, thus having no axial tilt. May have to go googling...
Quote from: Doc Savage NDMF on May 08, 2017, 02:07:33 PM
As a person crashing on to a planet:
Time for us would be some form of Universal Standard Time. An arbitrary clock completely devoid of any planet related items. This is the clock we would all have and use as familiar and standard. Likely a day ### or an arbitrary month. Space travel would wreak havoc on trying to keep Earth time. A whole Universe on GMT with all of the time zones still happening on good old Earth..? All the Planets having to get their own time zones as well..? Nightmares. Corporations would push for standardized times for contracts and deliveries, Military for operations. Universal Standard Time would be a thing. New planets would have a "G"MT and zones off it just as in the game.
One of the very first things any crash survivor would have to find out is what season it is. That information should be something the player has to find out. The fact it's automatic and conveniently follows ANY earthly pattern from any climate or zone is way too convenient.
Make it a mystery to solve. Use the UST, but have the months/seasons etc come from the planet itself.
Names as a simple text string called from a list of names.
-Every planet would have different months.
-Every planet could have different seasons.
-Example: Some planets may have volcanic activity that makes the equatorial regions hot and dry all "year".
-Some may not have any and require the player to keep track of the UST and fill in the blanks.
Upon visits/trade from the other factions or through trade via caravan details of the months and growing seasons can be gleaned.
The LAST thing I want to see if I'm being honest is Earth or Latin or mashed up names. The planet and it's inhabitants were here long before we were. I find quite hard to believe they named anything in Latin.
And maybe they all have 6 fingers and 6 toes, so for them there are SIX SIXTHS and no quarters at all...
Cheers..!
I enjoy this idea too... we could have tribes know the seasons of the planet. We can expand this to make us have to build something in order to tell where we are on the calendar.
Tynan, are we making this problem worse?
It seems a bit like Bikeshedding to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_triviality