Ludeon Forums

Especially for people seeking unusual/extreme conditions (very cold, hot, dry, wet, etc.), a sticky thread for exchanging world seeds would be, imo, seriously cool and very useful.  Even if not looking for "extreme" maps, though, this can still be very interesting and quite handy.

There's already threads along these lines quite often but they're buried rather quickly in the daily torrent of posts.  For example:
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=33383.0 or
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=6434

Any chance of this happening?  I couldn't find any other references to a similar question in a quick search (try searching for "world seeds" sometime; oy vey ::)).  Sure, some seeds will probably get too old to work properly (A15 and previously, for example) so people should post what version the seed is for but a lot of folks also still play older versions.  I still play an A15 colony, for example, and I've seen a few posters who still run A14.

On that note we need to be able to randomize the temperature and moisture settings. 

I think a a separate section or child board would be a better idea. That way there could be multiple threads separated by game version and subject.

Examples: [A16] Ice Shelf Seeds
              [A17] Ancient Road seeds

Personally I always use "test" for a long play-through. Lots of varied terrain.

And that's exactly what could go in an appropriate sticky.  Or subforum, whatever is most appropriate, although I don't know if there's THAT much interest.  Sticky-ing a thread is significantly less of a pain in the ass for forum staff, as well ;).

And no, I don't mean THIS thread, particularly.  But I still think it would be nice to gather up the various seed-sharing posts in one place.

I'm curious, btw:  IS seed behavior that different now?  I assume so but I'm still curious.  Does anyone have any insight on how the seed is processed..?

A good test of seed behavior would be if we all generated a world with a specific set of start conditions {seed, temperature, rainfall, world%}, and then did a screen cap to see if there's any significant variance, perhaps from mod loadout.

Since the seed test has been suggested, I'd like to fill that out with settings for the remaining three variables: temperature=1 tick colder, rainfall=normal, world%=50%.

seed	test
temperature	1 tick colder
rainfall	normal
world percent	50%

(https://s6.postimg.org/90zwi1idt/test_World.png)

https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorldSeeds

A Reddit subforum is NOT what I'm talking about ^^' .

Content driven structure
Structure is part of the content.

Consider the scenario of a developer who wishes to pre-arrange a folder heirarchy with places for all his soon-to-be stuff. They become enchanted with order and organization, and off they go to spend their days planning. Then usually when some content comes along during software development, the folder tree turns out to be not a good fit for the developing software project. Empty folders clutter the place and some folders are stuffed with large collections.

A better policy is to work on content first. When a folder accumulates enough items that it is burdensome to search through, subdivide that folder into two (or more) sub-folders. The folder tree then fills out and grows with the content and there is no disparity resulting from projecting plans beyond the foreseeable horizon.

Quote from: AngleWyrm on June 08, 2017, 10:09:08 AM
Content driven structure
Structure is part of the content.

Consider the scenario of a developer who wishes to pre-arrange a folder heirarchy with places for all his soon-to-be stuff. They become enchanted with order and organization, and off they go to spend their days planning. Then usually when some content comes along during software development, the folder tree turns out to be not a good fit for the developing software project. Empty folders clutter the place and some folders are stuffed with large collections.

A better policy is to work on content first. When a folder accumulates enough items that it is burdensome to search through, subdivide that folder into two (or more) sub-folders. The folder tree then fills out and grows with the content and there is no disparity resulting from projecting plans beyond the foreseeable horizon.

Cool story bro.  Wanna tell us how it's cogent here?

If you mean we should NOT have a world seed-trading thread, that's fine; simply say so and back up your opinion in your own words.  If not, then what are you on about, exactly?

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/2c/ea/5c/2cea5c487145cb4cb453063780c5b6fb.jpg)

Quote from: Bozobub on June 08, 2017, 10:33:28 AM Cool story bro.  Wanna tell us how it's cogent here? If you mean we should NOT have a world seed-trading thread, that's fine; simply say so and back up your opinion in your own words.  If not, then what are you on about, exactly? TLDR: There is a lack of anyone posting seeds in this thread, and an abundance of people talking about a thread to post seeds in. Supply side economics, trying to meet a non-existent need.

Search for "world seed" (5 pages of results) and "seed" (25 pages of results) on the forum.  It comes up very often and usually involves world-generation seeds; your assertion is badly flawed.

Nor do I expect THIS thread, as I already stated, to become the stickied thread, yet I'll note that I already see a detailed exploration of one seed ("test", by YOU) ::).  This thread is exactly for discussing the creation of such a thread and finding out if there's any interest in doing so.  Once again, what are you on about, exactly?

It seems quite probable that you didn't really read this thread as well as you may have originally thought.

Quote from: Bozobub on June 08, 2017, 10:57:02 AM
Search for "world seed" (5 pages of results) and "seed" (25 pages of results) on the forum.
...
Nor do I expect THIS thread, as I already stated, to become the stickied thread

The motivation of the supplicant can be tested like so:
Consolidate all those search results into a single post of links so that it forms a home.

• If that task is completed, then the proposed home for seeds will have been created by the person wanting it
• If that task seems too labor intensive, it's a good indication that any such thread will be just another addition to the search results

BULLSHIT !!! ..

sorry .. got five in a row ..

@Anglewyrm I have to disagree strongly with you.
Your basic reasoning is wrong.

If this thread gets used to talk about the possibilities of how to present a list of world seeds for Rimworld, then it is doing it's job.

Actually your example of a folder structure applies pretty well to the problem.
The wish for dividing World seeds in a specialized folder was formulated by a player, because threads with seeds in the discussion forum are hard to find, especially for the right version.

Creating a new folder or thread would satisfy the need. This here thread was created to gather a group of likeminded people to actually find out if the need for a World-Seed-Collection was shared.
It was in no way, as you suggested a thread saying "Yo Guys Post Seeds here, lets see if we get stickied. "
nor is it, as others tried a worldgen - suggestion thread.

The point where I agree with you is, that the creator of the thread should try to contact the Moderators of this Forum or the Game Developer himself to see if they are willing to give this idea a try.

@Bozobub I like the Idea of a Sub-Forum where Seeds, Worlds and Map Locations can be discussed and traded.
Still you have to be aware of the one thing AngleWyrm said in the beginning.
Seeds can behave differently with different modlists, because some mods or changes are linked to World- and/or Local Map Generation.

So change the thread Name into a question, start a poll and start talking to the people who could make this happen :-D

Quote from: SpaceDorf on June 08, 2017, 02:37:37 PMThe point where I agree with you is, that the creator of the thread should try to contact the Moderators of this Forum or the Game Developer himself to see if they are willing to give this idea a try.

I'm aware, thus this thread.  Both player and staff opinions matter, and the staff reads the forums.

Quote@Bozobub I like the Idea of a Sub-Forum where Seeds, Worlds and Map Locations can be discussed and traded.
Still you have to be aware of the one thing AngleWyrm said in the beginning.
Seeds can behave differently with different modlists, because some mods or changes are linked to World- and/or Local Map Generation.

So change the thread Name into a question, start a poll and start talking to the people who could make this happen :-D

I'm also aware several factors can affect seeds.  That doesn't really say much against the idea of sharing said seeds.  Whether as a subforum or a simple sticky, the actual form of it matters little to me.  There seems to be some confusion here, however, re: how difficult it is to "sticky" a thread; it's not, and is done via a simple toggle in every forum software I've ever seen.  That's NOT the case for setting up an entire subforum!

I'm not even remotely interested in a poll.  If the staff thinks it's a good idea, they'll do it.  If they don't, they won't.  There was no poll for sticky-ing the user art thread (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=13372.0), as an easy example.

If anyone has a direct opinion/reason why/why not such a thread is a good or bad idea, great, I want to hear it!  The staff, however, does NOT need gatekeepers to help them do their job ::).

@AngleWyrm:  Not even close to a good try.  Once again, I NEVER said or implied this thread should be the place to collect seeds, and yes, large numbers of the threads in question exist.  If you CBA to search the forums to verify this, I CBA to list the threads for you.  From where does your apparent anxiety over the matter come from..?

I'm not trying to present a Masters' thesis here and I certainly am far too lazy to act as if I am.  FFS, people...

Quote from: Bozobub on June 08, 2017, 02:49:10 PM

I'm aware, thus this thread.  Both player and staff opinions matter, and the staff reads the forums.

I'm also aware several factors can affect seeds.  That doesn't really say much against the idea of sharing said seeds.  Whether as a subforum or a simple sticky, the actual form of it matters little to me.  There seems to be some confusion here, however, re: how difficult it is to "sticky" a thread; it's not, and is done via a simple toggle in every forum software I've ever seen.  That's NOT the case for setting up an entire subforum!

I'm not even remotely interested in a poll.  If the staff thinks it's a good idea, they'll do it.  If they don't, they won't.  There was no poll for sticky-ing the user art thread (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=13372.0), as an easy example.

If anyone has a direct opinion/reason why/why not such a thread is a good or bad idea, great, I want to hear it!  The staff, however, does NOT need gatekeepers to help them do their job ::).

Your faith in the Staff is amazing. If I remember correctly, it took about a year until the user art thread got stickied on a whim of a mod.

Thats why I suggested a Poll. This would be further proof of demand ( which seems to be there )

To bad with the poll, because answers in this poll could be further proof of demand.
Satisfying Demand equals Customer Satisfaction equals Good Idea for Developer

And finally, this would not be gatekeeping but lobbying for your brainchild and taking the lead in furthering the goal of your supporters.

I wasn't aware that they were that slow, so thanks for that and I'll add a poll.  This only emphasizes, however, the likelihood of a sticky over a subforum in my opinion :P.  I'm still not down, so far, with PMing staff; I do so only when I need actual help, as most forums have nowhere near enough people doing far too much work, as it is.

As for "gatekeepers", however, I was referring directly to AngleWyrm, who has given several...bizarre...reasons for not bothering to ask the question in the 1st place.  I mean, seriously, "supplicant"?!  Save it for someone who cares.  I'm asking a simple, honest question; there's absolutely no reason to be pretentious about it and the evidence of interest is present in the mentioned search.  Take on airs elsewhere, AngleWyrm, if you must do so at all, because *no one* is impressed.

Edit -> Never mind, you apparently can't add a poll after the fact, unless I'm missing something.

(https://s6.postimg.org/zfisy6jwx/whee.png)

Ask for opinions and you'll likely get what you asked for. I like to think of mine as a captivating enchantment.

Quote from: SpaceDorf on June 08, 2017, 03:30:07 PM
Your faith in the Staff is amazing. If I remember correctly, it took about a year until the user art thread got stickied on a whim of a mod.

Thats why I suggested a Poll. This would be further proof of demand ( which seems to be there )

It was created at the whim of an admin, and the community showed zero interest in having it stickied.  Also, too many stickies makes them all invisible, so we have to strike a balance there.

Anyone is free to create a poll to get community feedback on anything, but it has to be done at thread creation - unless you're a mod/admin.
@BozoBub, I can add a poll to this thread if you like.  Reply here or via PM and I'll make it happen.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/e1/55/fa/e155fa1db8734a757eab313d4115d8fe.jpg)

That there might not be any bad blood or destructive meditations, I offer this: It is simply the value and score system that created what we call being kind to one another, brought to life; a reminder of why it's called a good thing.

Put succinctly, "Bite me."  Upon suggestion by other forum members, I searched for other posts from you;  If I wanted to talk to a self-important troll, I'd call or email the White House.  It would greatly help your argument(s) if you left out the "rope trick", where you climb right up your own ass and pull the rope in after you :P.

@milon:  That would definitely be cool, and thank you.  I'll leave the wording up to you.

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/7a/9d/f8/7a9df89f1b760e96c8c1cf86ab1c6d43.jpg)

Quote from: Bozobub on June 09, 2017, 01:33:14 PM Put succinctly, "Bite me." Already did; you were delicious, thanks

Pat yourself on the back all you like, emo troll; your level of satisfaction means nothing to me, either way.  You're done here; push off, if that's all you have.

You should also probably be a bit more careful about admitting to your base furriness.  Did you not realize you'd done so or are you just dumb enough to admit it?  It immediately torpedoes any point or counterpoint you made, of course; nicely done!

@Bozobub and AngleWyrm : Stop feeding each other.

@Milon Thanks for the Poll. I loved that you stickied A_Friends Gallery :-D
I can't draw shit and have no Scanner or I would post there too.

I VOTED ! I bought my right to complain about anybody else who voted something different :)

You're right, of course.  Self-satisfied gits annoy me, so I like to stick pins in them, but I'll leave it be.

As for sticky vs. subforum, I prefer a sticky but I'm not particularly invested in it.  Mostly, the investment of time and effort is significantly higher, thus making it less likely to happen.  Either way, however, works for me.  It's just meant as a small QoL improvement for the forum, not a major endeavor ;D.

Oh man I do love a good slap fight that I'm tempted to push bans for.

Bozo don't post a thread if you can't handle simplistic opinion pushing and thoughts, Angel you've been warned for this kind of thing before... chill.

Also jeez Dorf, we're not slow we are just REALLY HEAVY on checks and balances when it comes to sticky. We tend to do research first before putting something in the limelight.

I don't get it, this thread was made for the right idea but two people have more or less ruined what was a great idea just so they could hit each other. Why? :/

@Ramsis, I knew you would show up sooner or later :)
And Sorry, I was using a abbreviaton for saying "the process of getting a thread stickied could take a lot of time"
Also the reason why I was suggesting to Bozobub to push the Idea more.

Personally, I'd prefer not to have a stickied post for seeds, at least not on the general forum. My sense is that only a small subset of forum users would actually make use of it and it would fairly quickly become obsolete (due to map generation updates) unless its OP were really dedicated to it (unlikely in practice over the long term).

I don't know how much the "Stories" subforum currently gets used/read as is, but it might be reasonable to make it a "Stories and Challenges" subforum; a repository for sharing various types of in-game experiences. If that were the case, I could see a stickied seeds post being appropriate there.

So bump, becauso of self interest, how is the public oppinion on this at the moment ?

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/76/93/d5/7693d50d2041b256e9ae4dad11fb5ab3.jpg)

Quote from: Ramsis on June 09, 2017, 06:36:25 PM I don't get it, this thread was made for the right idea but two people have more or less ruined what was a great idea just so they could hit each other. Why? Since you've asked a question, I shall supply an answer. Exploration of the motive behind why the thread was created revealed properties that aren't consistent with the phrase made for the right idea. Since I would require something more than an assertion if presented with that statement, here then is my evidence: Little concern for whether seeds generate the same world, a prerequisite for the motive to collect them. World engineering is about the creation of motives and the way they move things about. Motives are part environment and part historical development, and it is usually a rather amusing catastrophe when they are considered personal property.

Nope.  That's simply a claim you're making, based off your own assumptions and insistence.  What makes you think your requirements mean anything at all to me, hm?  Once again, *you* are not a gatekeeper to anything but your own worldview; I simply don't care what you would "require".

I'll also note that, according to the poll, more people would like such a {thread, subforum} than would not, at least so far.  And turtles are popular; go turtles!

Empirical evidence wins over bloviation and insistence.

Quote from: Bozobub on June 18, 2017, 07:04:21 PM
... And turtles are popular; go turtles!

To be fair, not liking turtles wasn't an option.

I like turtles. Miscasting Wizard's Throw in Catacomb Kids summons a purple tortoise instead.

Honestly, what's the point now that there's a planet-wide temperature setting ? Generating a very cold planet is as simple as a mouse click.

So you'd argue for ditching the "world seed" idea entirely, then?  Interesting, although I don't agree.  As others have found recently, yes, you CAN still duplicate a given map — with variation in roads and rivers — with a given world seed.

This possibly can be useful in a couple of ways:
- Contests/competitive play.  It's generally best to try to ensure the most directly even start possible amongst all players.
- Exploration of permadeath play in a given biome/setting but NOT via savegames; you get a little start variation this way but not too much, which maintains interest a bit better over a long period.  Yes, I do this.  Yes, I know I'm weird ^^' .

I understand your point and agree somewhat, re: the temperature setting, but I'd argue that a good number of folks (23-6 in favor, at the moment) still would find such a thread useful.

I would like to point out (as objectivly as I can) that the for/against poll really does not mean much in this context simply because of biases in this thread itself.

People who are interested in having a sticky are likely to be reading this thread as, of course, they are interested. Whereas people who are not interested will be likely to not read this thread at all or just skim through the posts and not vote or comment.

Without complete community involvement this poll will always be bias towards having a sticky.

*I would like to mention that I have no strong opinions one way or the other on this topic*

~EDIT~
Bozobub, I just want you to take care if you do plan to

Quote from: Bozobub on June 22, 2017, 11:02:30 PMargue that a good number of folks (23-6 in favor, at the moment) still would find such a thread useful.

as its not an accurate representation of the community.

Such a thread is a good idea in my opinion, as it starts discussions and it provides some people the chance to consider options they may never have thought of otherwise.

Sorry, but no.  Literally NO user-generated poll on a forum is ever "scientific"; every one of them has self-selected participants.  I'm not going to bother to add silly attempts at doing so that are, by definition, doomed to fail because of this simple fact; it's just a forum poll; get over yourself!  In fact, I only added a poll after ANOTHER user suggested I do so, FFS, as reading the thread will show you.

As for whether or not people are "interested", I'll note that this thread currently has the most views of any non-stickied thread on the front page of the forum's index =p .

Care to explain how I should force "complete community involvement" on any given poll, especially since I am not forum staff?  You won't, of course, be able to but I'm curious: what's the BBcode for "scientific poll"..?.  Nor do I need to "take care" when stating direct, empirical facts, such as {X} people currently for and {Y} against in the given poll.  And what do you think has been going on in this thread, but "discussion"?

Once again, actual arguments for/against a "World Seed" thread, such as b0rsuk's response (to the negative) above, are interesting, useful, and welcome.  Silly attempts at gatekeeping are not.

Dude chill. I just wanted to point out that your gauge for community interest is flawed. 23 of 29 people aren't going to be in favor of this idea. (I may very well be wrong here, these are just my thoughts, based on nothing but my own opinion).

No need to take it so personally.

In fact I even voted in favor of this, as having a localized area where people can share seeds is a good idea.

I am willing to bet that the vast majority of people are indifferent one way or the other.

You're quite missing the point; it's the "gauge" asked for by another user.  I did not, in fact, feel a poll was necessary but was persuaded to add one (with help from a mod).  You were saying..?

Your mental picture of my emotions doesn't happen to reflect reality ::).

Well, I voted for sticky but honestly wanted to vote no : the game isn't deep enough IMO where world seeds would do very much, I think. But maybe a couple updates could change that.

I figure even if we had a sticky, but especially subforum, it would collect dust for the most part.

Try searching for "seed" and/or "world seed" on the forum; there's plenty of activity re: the subject, actually, but the threads are constantly buried over time.

And I also don't get why you'd vote differently than you believe.

Because while I THINK it wouldn't be useful in the long run, I would rather have a sticky than an entire subforum collecting dust, and would rather have a forum once it actually gets more frequent.

Just my opinion, really I think tynan would be the best person to ask considering hes planning whats up next in development.

and I'm not even against a subforum in the future, just for right now its a little lacking...

EDIT:Upon further research, consideration, I actually changed my mind : a subforum would be a good idea.

even if it DOES collect dust for a few months, it may be benificial in the end. And a sub forum isn't a huge waste of anything, really.

Thank you, mumble, this was my thought process as well.

If there was a subforum one could even move the existing "seed" threads to this subforum.