Is there a way in the start menu, to diminish the strength of the enemy outposts? 20 pawns, 4 gun turrets (and sometime a mortar) at every single level of difficulty in Cassandra, Phoebe and Randy? How do I suppose to win the battle???
-If I try to destroy a solar generator to shut a key defensive turret, all the 20 enemy pawns go rampage and kill my colonist in few seconds;
-If I try to burn the outpost, the killing rampage start before the fire do some relevant damages;
-If I try to use a sniper, the dead enemy pawn starts the rampage;
-If I try to attack a tribe outpost, there is an unstoppable wave with pilas, clubs and spears;
-if I try a siege, the mortar is tooooo slow to kill a good chunk of enemy pawns...
6 colnists full boincs can run circles round any outpost ( saw on twitch.tv live... )
6 with assult rifles or snipers = job done.
1 guy with some walls and a animal pychic lance ( mass animal insanity ) = choas
Get yourself some doomsday rocket launcher.
Quote from: tonsrd on October 05, 2017, 06:33:04 AM
6 colnists full boincs can run circles round any outpost ( saw on twitch.tv live... )
6 with assult rifles or snipers = job done.
1 guy with some walls and a animal pychic lance ( mass animal insanity ) = choas
Isn't there something less expensive??????
Quote from: Nameless on October 05, 2017, 09:36:11 AM
Get yourself some doomsday rocket launcher.
Nope. It is still too ineffective between the hut of the outpost. And after the first launch, the pawns are too scattered on the map.
Tame a bunch of animals, on the roads they are a solid escort, and once at the outpost, wait behind a hill to ambush the pirates with your animals. They'll be pinned by the animals, fighting melee (fists) and unable to fire, finish them off with longswords.
Either shoot the powerline next to the turrets with a sniper or try to find where the turrets cable touches the power lines and shoot the power line one tile nearer to the energy giver.. turrets will not reconnect.
EMP Grenades Turn off either Turrets or disrupt the Power Givers.
Snipe the guy manning the Mortar.
Try to bait the guards into positions the mortar is shooting at.
1 Guy with some walls, joy objects and lots of food. ( crap .. forgot about the mortar ) ..
One guy with overhead mountain, joy objects and lots of food ;-D
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on October 05, 2017, 10:50:38 AM
Tame a bunch of animals, on the roads they are a solid escort, and once at the outpost, wait behind a hill to ambush the pirates with your animals. They'll be pinned by the animals, fighting melee (fists) and unable to fire, finish them off with longswords.
Nope. The animals (except dogs, bears, wargs etc...) are stupid useless sitting ducks... tame all that pawns is an unsustainable price for a colony and the journey. And in many case, my released animals, go in a completely random direction during the assaults. At this build (17), animals are pretty useless.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on October 05, 2017, 10:55:24 AM
Either shoot the powerline next to the turrets with a sniper or try to find where the turrets cable touches the power lines and shoot the power line one tile nearer to the energy giver.. turrets will not reconnect.
After I destroy the cable, the unstoppable wave of 20 pawns, kill all my colonists.
QuoteEMP Grenades Turn off either Turrets or disrupt the Power Givers.
Yes but that starts the rampage of the enemies, so is essentially useless.
QuoteSnipe the guy manning the Mortar.
That starts the rampage.
QuoteTry to bait the guards into positions the mortar is shooting at.
The pawns wander in a completely unpredictable pattern.
Am I the only one with all these enemy in a single outpost attack at Cassandra Peaceful?
(https://i.imgur.com/iRIwzdD.png)
20 Pawns, 6 shielded!!
Quote from: PhantomFav on October 05, 2017, 12:14:07 PM
Nope. The animals (except dogs, bears, wargs etc...) are stupid useless sitting ducks... tame all that paws is an unsustainable price for a colony and the journey. And in many case, my released animals, go in a completely random direction during the assaults. At this build (17), animals are pretty useless.
It's because animals are OP that you've to train them. But i've never really had mood issues training animals. Even muffaloes are great to assault an outpost/ pirate base.
Outpost enemy has nothing to do with difficulty.
Instead of complaining about how difficult outposts are when they are not, maybe try to actually think of actual tactics to defeat it.
Quote from: Nameless on October 05, 2017, 02:10:38 PM
Instead of complaining about how difficult outposts are when they are not, maybe try to actually think of actual tactics to defeat it.
I'm not complaining, I'm asking for a help. And if I'm asking for a help, it's because I have already tried various tactics (conventional and using game's bug).
The outposts are simply OP in A17. If you don't agree with me, please try yourself to conquer an outpost and send here the results...
Quote from: Nameless on October 05, 2017, 02:10:38 PM
Outpost enemy has nothing to do with difficulty.
I feel like this is an easy fix that should be considered by the developers. I like playing on "peaceful" and therefore have to avoid a lot of game content that sounds like a lot of fun.
Seems like it would be easy to have the difficulty level apply a multiplier to the colony wealth when spawning outposts, etc.
The most cost-effective method I've encountered is immediately digging into a mountain, then putting granite blocks I brought with me behind. They'll still rush you, but if any of them has grenades they'll throw them at the wall. Others won't consistently react in time, so they'll grenade themselves into fleeing.
My original thought process was to bring enough food to starve them out, but I got this outcome instead. Good thing too, since they can cheat and put 6+ enemies on one tile to beat on a wall deep in a 1 wide corridor...but it's precisely this cheat by the AI that caused a huge number of them to eat a single grenade :/.
Quote from: PhantomFav on October 05, 2017, 12:14:07 PM
Quote from: Wanderer_joins on October 05, 2017, 10:50:38 AM
Tame a bunch of animals, on the roads they are a solid escort, and once at the outpost, wait behind a hill to ambush the pirates with your animals. They'll be pinned by the animals, fighting melee (fists) and unable to fire, finish them off with longswords.
Nope. The animals (except dogs, bears, wargs etc...) are stupid useless sitting ducks... tame all that paws is an unsustainable price for a colony and the journey. And in many case, my released animals, go in a completely random direction during the assaults. At this build (17), animals are pretty useless.
Make an animal Zone where you want your herd of meatshields to go.
Don't assign masters or use release at all .. just taming
Quote from: SpaceDorf on October 05, 2017, 05:18:30 PM
Make an animal Zone where you want your herd of meatshields to go.
Don't assign masters or use release at all .. just taming
But then the animals won't attack enemies unless attacked. The original poster wanted a cheaper method than a pulser. Sacrificing animals doesn't sound like that, especially that you have to travel there with the animals.
Outpost like the one you gave a picture of, OP? Just leave it alone till you've got at least 6 or so pawns with decent shooting skills and assault rifles (add extra sniper rifles to taste, though I always forget to tell them to hold fire and end up with a catastrofuck in the middle of trying to arrange a decent firing line). Those 4 (?) guys with chain shotguns will make a terrible mess if they get close, but if you've got enough fire to stop them getting close, none of the rest are particularly dangerous. Mid/late-game, that's a pretty tempting target - but there's the rub, right?
Essentially, I reckon outposts are a risk-reward thing, like so much else; if you go for them early the reward is proportionately greater, but also you risk having dudes with automatic shotguns blow limbs off your comically under-equipped bunch of chancers. Go late, and the autoshotty guys will live just long enough to see their club-wielding pals get splattered, but ~3k silver and misc bits isn't a game-changer any more.
Personally, I just like a bit of payback now and then.
The bug with release in A17 seems to be with aggro range and the wander mechanic. I get around it by toggling it on and off sometimes. When you toggle it on, the animals stop and look for a target. If they see one they attack. If they don't, they go back to wandering. They won't look again until the wander cycle ends, which takes forever in combat speeds. So if you toggle it off and back on again while unpaused and in sight of a target, they attack.
Oh, tame boomalopes, train them how to release and use them when you attack.
It also helps to not play with Cassandra; even on "Peaceful", she will ramp things up over time. Period.
Okay .. I see there is another lection in small unit tactics and local overpowering required.
Quote from: PhantomFav on October 05, 2017, 05:55:22 AM
-if I try a siege, the mortar is tooooo slow to kill a good chunk of enemy pawns...
Mortar. Singular. Wrong !
Quote from: PhantomFav on October 05, 2017, 05:55:22 AM
- all the 20 enemy pawns go rampage ...
Yeap, thats baiting. Now they follow you wherever you go, while their mortar guy keeps shooting at your troops ..
your troops keep on moving, so that the enemy takes their position when the mortar shell arrives.
The picture of the guys you send is nothing more than a standard raid .. if you attack with the described 5 or 6 pawns with decent equipment those suckers go down ..
9 melee,3 unarmed or grenadiers, 4 assault shotguns and/or assault rifles.
Except for their Mortars you should have range.
Now look for some defensible places around the map, chokepoints, open fields with water or at least sand, considering this picture was taken in a desert.
If you find this area, convince yourself that this is your base, and you will defend it.
And don't be afraid of the enemy numbers.
Similiar to a raid the enemy troops will start fleeing if you take out enough of them.
--- short message in between, I forgot to turn of my kitchen sink before starting to write, so I just flooded my kitchen .. >:( >:( ---
and similiar to raids, the attackers usually move in a long line .. so you can concentrate on one or two to shoot ..
and don't forget to retreat if they get to close.
Quote from: PatrykSzczescie on October 06, 2017, 01:10:06 PM
Oh, tame boomalopes, train them how to release and use them when you attack.
Why waste food on something thats going to die ?
Create Animal Zone - Enemy Camp.
Assign Animals.
And in opposite to release your animals will actually go where you want them to ;D
Whenever I go to invade outposts, I always take:
* Psychic Insanity Lance: To make dangerous enemies attack their own.
* Psychic Shock Lance: To down shield bearers.
It is a very strange feeling that although we are "attacking", the most effective ways are playing "defensive" like in your base but on their map.
It is true that enemies don't come all together but in a line, because of this, it's possible to zone in and out, "rezone" (leave the map and re-enter) to cheese enemies by spawning in opposite sides of the map and make them spend all their time traveling across the map while you heal your people, eat and even sleep. So in one instance you will be attacking the ones at the front of their lines and once you "teleported" to the opposite corner, those who were at the rear will become the next ones to pot shot as their front liners. With this cheese tactic, it's possible to even take their base while they are still at the edge of the map before you "teleported".
Now, I can't get to see their base as it wasn't included in the picture, all I know is that there was a turret. But you can "capture" their base by simply destroying an unprotected wall segment, then rebuilding it yourself for cover. This will cause enemies to come at you both by "their" doors and just by destructing their own walls. If you choose to do this, prepare very well as they will be coming at you and you won't have anywhere else to go, depending on their base set up. Every time you "teleport", you can leave your animals behind, and they will re-group with you crossing the whole map and confusing the enemy with non worthy targets. Make sure your pack animals are zoned safely elsewhere and use the others for this.
In attacks, sometimes, enemies will come at you right away, while in other times, they may even sleep before coming at you. If they stay long, your snipers can take a few out to soften their numbers long before the clash begins. Either way, it's best to build a simple base so your pawns can rest too.
Just be very selective by "teleporting", where is the best defensive map edge for you.
Quote from: Yoshida Keiji on October 07, 2017, 08:13:09 AM
Whenever I go to invade outposts, I always take:
* Lots of medicine.
I have a trick for raiding outpost or hostile colonies. Whenever you generated the encounter map (either caravan raid or outpost), use claim command on "useless random wall" generated on the map immediately.
When the hostile enemy begin to assault your crew (Either by snipe them or hanging around too long), some of them will go to punch those "useless wall" you just claim instead of fighting you. This trick can reduce the amount of enemy you need to fight all at once to be a wave like combat.
If you're lucky (or the opposite), the enemy may open the ancient danger for you too :P .
Yeah :)
using the environment.
Using snipers + zoning out --> back in with individual pawns to teleport them around and get constant free shots is pretty unfair, but effective.
There's a bug that makes you capture some doors inside their base as well. It blocks enemies from using them, therefore they'll attack them to uncover some areas for you. (This needs to be fixed though.)
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on October 09, 2017, 12:44:48 PM
Using snipers + zoning out --> back in with individual pawns to teleport them around and get constant free shots is pretty unfair, but effective.
Yes, this is terribly cheesy. I posted about it to let Tynan know and hopefully block it on further Alphas. I went to an extent where I just mobbed an enemy outpost by splitting my caravans all around the same hexagon. The enemy AI being attacked by 6 different points at a same time was a total laughter.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on October 09, 2017, 12:44:48 PM
Using snipers + zoning out --> back in with individual pawns to teleport them around and get constant free shots is pretty unfair, but effective.
If you want effective exploits turn on DevMode and remove anything you don't want ;D
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on October 09, 2017, 12:44:48 PM
Using snipers + zoning out --> back in with individual pawns to teleport them around and get constant free shots is pretty unfair, but effective.
That's great idea though. By the way, do you know how to let your animal you bring with to exit the map with you too? My alpaca (with caravan food) seem to not follow the master out of the map unless I use "reform caravan", which is impossible with enemy around.
Well, the Teleport tactic works well by playing at the map borders instead of going straight to the center of the map. Since maps are randomly generated you have the option to re-generate them for better layouts. Enemy outposts are not the same each time you enter, which is odd. This is assuming the first entry didn't had defensive locations at the borders. Now, if you like your current borders, just select one area as a "panic room location" (at least that seems to be the naming in wiki), the one place you will want to keep as safe zone, and fight elsewhere only.
I never had that much bad luck, but you can either create an animal zone and manually move your pack animals there, or just leave the map with them, but it seems you have difficulty in that aspect. I wouldn't charge with those I need for carrying stuff. If the animals are with you, just make it follow back-liners such as Medics, who don't fight, then Teleporting with those animals should be easy.
But to me the most practical way is just leave them at the safe zone, because if you take them with you in and out constantly, some times there's a chance that your next teleporting location is the same place where you left or nearby. So I learnt to teleport safely enough so that I can have a second time to teleport if the next spawning point is too close to danger.
And of course, you can still create a room for those pack animals. Teleporting can become more chaotic that the threat we pose to the NPCs but to me its all fun fun fun, but sport wise poor, of course.
So far my max number of offense had 18 pawns, so teleporting with split caravans was sooooo cheesy...
For me the only difficulty in teleporting, is to make wounded pawns appear where I left the Hospital and all medicine supplies. Some times there's not enough time to build more than one facility. So I would suggest that instead of carrying them, just unload some and roof them. You can make multiple pit stops with each teleportation, but then I think its still wise to place them in a room, because I had some enemies eat food I left unattended.
Quote from: SpaceDorf on October 10, 2017, 06:35:48 AM
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on October 09, 2017, 12:44:48 PM
Using snipers + zoning out --> back in with individual pawns to teleport them around and get constant free shots is pretty unfair, but effective.
If you want effective exploits turn on DevMode and remove anything you don't want ;D
Don't be ridiculous. There is a clear delineation between playing within the game rules vs using something like a cheat/dev mode/mod/whatever to bypass the game rules.
You will find even pinning this as an "exploit" while being self-consistent to be problematic, if you try to make your case/standards coherent. It is clearly something that isn't balanced though, the risk vs cost/reward is way off.
If youre having trouble with large amounts of enemies just think about real life where usually an attacking force needs to be roughly 3 times as big as a defending force assuming equal equipment training and a normal amount of fortifications
If you dont have the pawns for it just accept that you cant attack that outpost and come back when you have a larger army or do one of the many suggestions here and outplay the AI of the enemy.