Hi Tynan, I saw from a different post that you responded with the plan to cut it and turn it into a weapon instead. I really hope you don't do it because I think players like it as disaster but just don't like the fact that there's very little counter or preventive measures to it. I would rather you keep it and implement a few counters such as the ones listed below.
1) make it so that it can only spawn outside of your home zone (but can path thru the colony)
2) make it deal MORE damage on outside tiles - I want to see an epic path if destruction. But the damage can be mitigated for indoors. (See next point)
3) this is an important one that'll address most of the players' issues with the current version of the tornado: give tiles close to walls damage mitigation - ie, tiles next to wall has 25% damage reduction for each side (so 1 tile with 4 walls around it will be fully protected). This % then decreases with distance away from the wall, reaching 0% around 3- 5 tiles away. This will make small rooms offering better protections against tornados. Tiles closer to walls will be safer, and Larger rooms are more vulnerable in the middle but can be improved by support pillars.
4)a late game tech that gives a device that wiill have a chance to alter the path of the tornado
5) make wind turbines operate at 100% For the duration of tornado
6)Do NOT give the ability to build thick roof (like the mountaintop) bc this will make siege raids pretty harmless...
Thank you. Please consider this plea!
Quote from: dkmoo on November 23, 2017, 08:22:38 PM
give tiles close to walls damage mitigation - ie, tiles next to wall has 25% damage reduction for each side (so 1 tile with 4 walls around it will be fully protected). This % then decreases with distance away from the wall, reaching 0% around 3- 5 tiles away. This will make small rooms offering better protections against tornados. Tiles closer to walls will be safer, and Larger rooms are more vulnerable in the middle but can be improved by support pillars.
This would be the best thing happening. Actually one could say it was bad game design, the tornado doesn't already have some logic like this.
In this way: " Tynan please don't cut the tornado!"
+1 :)
That sounds great!
In this case it still'd be a threat but players would be able to protect their real valuables by spending resources and planning ahead.
So,yeah: "Please don't cut the tornado!"
How is random destruction by mother nature not perfect for RimWorld?
Must keep tornado!
Quote from: dkmoo on November 23, 2017, 08:22:38 PM
Hi Tynan, I saw from a different post that you responded with the plan to cut it and turn it into a weapon instead.
Ha be cool to see it as a weapon. I hope he at least leaves the tornado in the scenario editor.
Quote from: dkmoo on November 23, 2017, 08:22:38 PM
3) this is an important one that'll address most of the players' issues with the current version of the tornado: give tiles close to walls damage mitigation - ie, tiles next to wall has 25% damage reduction for each side (so 1 tile with 4 walls around it will be fully protected). This % then decreases with distance away from the wall, reaching 0% around 3- 5 tiles away. This will make small rooms offering better protections against tornados. Tiles closer to walls will be safer, and Larger rooms are more vulnerable in the middle but can be improved by support pillars.
I just wanted to second this thought. This sounds perfect! It even makes sense! You can create 2x2 safe-rooms where objects only take 25% damage (perfect for hiding valuables and keeping pawns alive) while everything else gets trashed.
More damage over a wider area but with less intensity also sounds great. So you wind up with lots of damaged solar panels and windmills that have to be repaired rather than a few being destroyed.
Quote from: dkmoo on November 23, 2017, 08:22:38 PM
5) make wind turbines operate at 100% For the duration of tornado
Actually Wind Turbines should shut down when a Tornado is on the map, else the force of the wind could destroy the Turbine or Rotorblades without getting close or create power surges in your power grid
Quote from: Shurp on November 24, 2017, 09:07:54 AM
You can create 2x2 safe-rooms where objects only take 25% damage (perfect for hiding valuables and keeping pawns alive) while everything else gets trashed.
My original thought was for each side to have 25% damage reduction that's stackable for each direction with a wall, and also have this DR % decrease with distance. So for ex, 2 tiles away 15% DR, 3 tile away 5% DR. So in your 2x2 room each tile will have 25%+25%+15%+15% = 80% DR, or only take 20% damage.
We can let Tynan/community decide on the actual % and the distance DR phase out rate, but the idea here is that this mechanic makes 1) smaller rooms safer, and larger rooms increasingly more vulnerable away from the walls. 2) make double/triple layer walls have meaning - by offer more protection - ie, a triple thick wall will offer 25%+15%+5% = 45% DR from a single side alone for the directly-adjacent tile.
And PLEASE make it so visitors don't get mad at you for getting hurt by a visiting tornado.
Tornadoes are more irritating than hurricanes IRL in the sense of their unpredictability WRT pathing. Hurricanes do more dmg over a wider-spread area but their pathing is (fairlly) predictable; tornadoes do a lot of dmg in a small area but their pathing is pretty much unpredictable!
How about:
- Tornadoes only spawn on flatlands (WRT the biome you have)
- They will rip off constructed roofs & scatter & damage/destroy items inside
- They will destroy wood walls & damage stone constructed walls (to say 25% of its current HP), damage natural rock (to say 50% of its current HP) but not destroy it outright from 100% (avoiding partially-dmged outcrop issues).
- They will ignore pathing WRT constructed walls but respect pathing WRT natural stone/mountain
- A constructed device (Tornado Warning) siren would be availabe to get pawns under cover, with some research (maybe a meteorologist specialist?) Tribals could gain an early similar effect by using an 'animal watch' research that dead-ends
- Possibly a 'hardened roof' could be added - not sure I like this idea..
- Since most tornado/hurricane dmg is IRL caused by debris hurled thru the air, perhaps some sort of mechanic could simulate this (eg your pawn's close to a stockpile full of stuff, they're gonna be badly hurt/killed)
- Animals (all animals, not only trained) should flee as if being hunted
Just some thoughts; I'm sure there are other ideas floating out there..
Finally had one tear through my colony and cause incredible damage to my defenses, wall, and living areas only for a massive tribal raid to captialise on the breach and flood into my colony.
I love it. I think it should always spawn from the edge of the map though. And maybe a notification 2 days or a day in advance that one is on the horizon.
Also, a 'storm depressor' late game device would be nice that dissapates the tornado if it hits the radius maybe, or acts as like an invisible barrier for the tornado.
That'd be a good countermeaasure.
#votekeepitin
i like the tornado as it is now more then in some weapon..
I like the tornado as well. I'd rather they didn't remove it.
The Tornado is great!
It should appear only in proper climate zones, and there should be an adequate response to it other than only having a mountain base.
I'm looking forward to seeing the interactions between the ED-Shields and the Tornados in B18. I think they'd prove an interesting (and power consuming) way of keeping the important parts of your base safe.
I have not made up my Mind about how I feel about Tornadoes yet? Ison seems to think Tornadoes will go though a change of some kind. Is it official? Or more so has Tynan announced what changes he is considering. I do like the idea of walls reducing damage of Tornadoes.
I will say that I hope Tornadoes stay!
I feel like they need some tweaking but I don't have any useful suggestions except please don't remove them.
If I don't like Tornadoes I will simply disable them as a possible event in the Scenario Editor. For now I am not disabling them.
I kind of want the strength of the Tornado to be random as well... Or maybe the type of Tornado depends on the weather conditions? These are only tidbits of suggestions.
I'm really hoping tornadoes stay as a natural occuring event. It doesn't have to be complicated. Having them restricted to certain biomes is fine. And there's always the scenario editor to turn them off :)
That doesn't mean we can't have tornado generators as weapons, also, though :)
Absolutely hated the tornado. Tynan is doing the right thing.
There is some love and hate for the tornado including my self. ( I had alot of fun with dev mode on with massive raids of two different raider factions fighting in the middle with two tornadoes in there. )
I going to be in the middle, and let the tornado stay and only have alot of nerfs into tornado, After destroying some objects lets say 6 or 4, it should disappear or killing a certain amount of pawns or creatures. Maybe it should deal normal damage to walls but not furniture and pawns should automatically avoid the tornado if it comes close?
I don't know how Tynan is going to implement it while being excited for it becoming a one-use superweapon item. Maybe both should pro-exist i don't know, it's wait until it comes out sort of thing how they do it.
I like the tornado as a concept; having the force of nature carve a path of destruction. Yeah, as others have said, the biggest issue is that it's just got no real counterplay other than turtling up in a mountain.
I actually made a suggestion (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=36537.0) to make a simplified EF scale for RimNadoes, since that'd not only be more realistic but generally reduce the frustration around them. It just doesn't make sense that every tornado's an EF4/5 behemoth that destroys everything, neither from a gameplay or realism perspective.
I like the tornado event because it's not entirely certain which way it will go and because all you can really do is get out of its way.
I got lucky - it went over some sandbags, ripped up some haygrass, and then it left the map.
When i first thought of tornados i actually thought it would be a weather event mostly in tropical rainforest or tropical swamp, with a more global effect on the map.
TBH it already feels like it's been cut. I've played 9+ years in tropical swamp and got 0 tornado. Given that even when you get one, it will most likely do no significant damage, it looks like an extremely rare with extremely random effects event right now, with no real impact on your gameplay, so no wonder opinions are all over the map.
The only use of tornados i can see, is in custom scenarios where you significantly increase their likelihood.
On a positive note, they look cartoony but really nice :)
Don't cut tornadoes.
Put in a weapon that negates tornadoes.
Design Proposal:
Create a satellite heat beam that heats up the cold air that helps in tornado formation, which can be fired on a tornado to dissipate it entirely.
Yes, please let it stay!
-You can implement some weather monitoring device that warns you a few minutes before it happens,
-or some ultra rare and expensive device that eliminate it when it comes near it and set it to only work once,
-or you can implement new ultra resistent kind of walls and roofs that resist it and can only be build by level 16+ builders,
-or set them to only spawn at the top difficulties, etc!
Quote from: Snafu_RW on November 24, 2017, 09:01:13 PM
Tornadoes are more irritating than hurricanes IRL in the sense of their unpredictability WRT pathing. Hurricanes do more dmg over a wider-spread area but their pathing is (fairlly) predictable; tornadoes do a lot of dmg in a small area but their pathing is pretty much unpredictable!
How about:
- Tornadoes only spawn on flatlands (WRT the biome you have)
- They will rip off constructed roofs & scatter & damage/destroy items inside
- They will destroy wood walls & damage stone constructed walls (to say 25% of its current HP), damage natural rock (to say 50% of its current HP) but not destroy it outright from 100% (avoiding partially-dmged outcrop issues).
- They will ignore pathing WRT constructed walls but respect pathing WRT natural stone/mountain
- A constructed device (Tornado Warning) siren would be availabe to get pawns under cover, with some research (maybe a meteorologist specialist?) Tribals could gain an early similar effect by using an 'animal watch' research that dead-ends
- Possibly a 'hardened roof' could be added - not sure I like this idea..
- Since most tornado/hurricane dmg is IRL caused by debris hurled thru the air, perhaps some sort of mechanic could simulate this (eg your pawn's close to a stockpile full of stuff, they're gonna be badly hurt/killed)
- Animals (all animals, not only trained) should flee as if being hunted
Just some thoughts; I'm sure there are other ideas floating out there..
I like most of these ideas. My beef with tornadoes has always been their lack of counterplay + poor representation of how they work in reality.
On a side note: hurricanes frequently spawn tornadoes directly, adding to the "fun" of living in areas that get them. Still, these tornadoes are not as strong as the strongest Midwest/Bengali ones, and by far the greatest threat from hurricanes is storm surge.
QuoteTBH it already feels like it's been cut. I've played 9+ years in tropical swamp and got 0 tornado. Given that even when you get one, it will most likely do no significant damage, it looks like an extremely rare with extremely random effects event right now, with no real impact on your gameplay, so no wonder opinions are all over the map.
Tropical areas are not where you would anticipate seeing the most tornadoes. You expect them in more temperate areas with surrounding terrain conducive to their formation (US Midwest and Bengal India both share some surrounding terrain considerations that make them more likely).
Many areas get weaker versions as part of storm cells, but compared to what initial A18 tornadoes did and what you see from midwest these weaker tornadoes are probably not worth modeling in Rimworld as they are much smaller and have significantly weaker wind speed...only the strongest of these could even threaten a well-built cinderblock structure.
I've seen some good suggestions concerning tornadoes in these forums, such as tornados can occur only during certain storm types giving the player some kind of cautionary warning. Definitely think they should stay in, as others have said you can disable them when setting up a game.
I've literally only ever seen a tornado once. Is it more common is specific biomes?
i like the tornado idea, but not the actual implementation. i had several tornados so far and mostly no damage on my colony at all, since the tornado was way off. (which made me happy, but thats not how a disaster should work)
i think it would be a better event if the tornado mechanics were like that:
the tornado has a direction, for example east and a damage level, like 200dmg. every roof that stands out in east direction gets destroyed. the tornado then does damage to all outer walls from the east. if its a wooden wall, the wall is gone (140hp) and the tornado keeps tearing the roof away further, till it reaches the next wall and then the "remaining" 60 dmg are applied to the next wall. and ofc if something like a tailor bench is in between those wall it also eats the dmg. that way theres a reasonable counter (have rocksolid walls and dont be cheap but build a plasteel tailor bench table) and the tornado isnt just a giant ms paint erasertool-like random event. also the remains should look somehow like a house after a tornado disaster, the walls perpendicular to the direction of the tornado are almost all gone (depends on the damage level ofc) and those in line with the tornado only got scratched. and a lot of random rooftiles should be destroyed on top of all that plus all wind turbines should be damaged, just for some more annoyance :D
heres are two rooms connected by a door and a bench in each.
R stands for roof, W is a wooden wall, D door and BBB is a bbbench
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRWWWWWWWWWWWWRR
RRW............W.............WRR
RRW....BBB....D....BBB....WRR
RRW............W.............WRR
RRWWWWWWWWWWWWRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
after a small tornado (200dmg) from the east it would look like that
RRWWWWWWWWWWW
RRW............w.............
RRW......BB....d....bb......
RRW............w.............
RRWWWWWWWWWWW
after a small tornado from the south it would look like that
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
WwwwwwWwwwwwwW
W............W.............W
W.....bbb...D....bbb.....W
w............w..............w
small letters indicate stuff got damaged.
i tried to make it look aligned, but fuck my asci-drawing :D
If you want a monospaced font, put your text in [_code][_/code] tags (sans the underscores).