I respectfully suggest to add a feature allowing some events to be predicted if the colony have the related item.
For example, a mounted telescope allows to predict eclipses.
Television programs speak about the eruption of a super-volcan, the volcanic winter is predicted some days before it happens. It can be useful too for toxic rains. Which media would not speak about the huge pollution released in the atmosphere by a factory ?
If you have some other ideas in relation, don't hesitate to post them.
PS : it would be nice too if eclipses (and day/night cycle) were displayed on the world map (even if I know it's complicated to implement).
Problem I see with this is that the devs would have to make the event system assign these events before they happen, if you've ever noticed if you reload after an event you don't get the same event twice. So this would be a lot of work for something that wouldn't exactly benefit as these would be selected. This also means if an event is decided before hand and something happened to affect the colony the event would scale higher (or lower) than what would be currently decided.
Firstly, it doesn't really need to assign the event before it happens.
Simply replace the current event by a predicted event when the required item is available and trigger later the event adapted to the wealth of the colony at the effective release of the event.
Secondly, in my opinion, it's even cheap for the devs. It only needs to check if some items are available and shift the related events to predicted ones.
Finally, it will allow players to make what they need to be ready for the event, bringing a new dimension to the game.
The only thing I'm not sure is about the relation with other events during the time between the prediction and the event.
The easiest way to do it, I would think, is to basically create a sub-event that accompanies each event that you want to be predictable, which could be created from a few nodes in the same def, like recipeMakers are. It would be conditionally visible - that is, only visible if you meet the conditions, e.g., the right building installed and active. (In this case the building would need some code hooks, a comp probably, to handle detecting conditional events that are active when it's installed or whatever.) It would run for a certain duration and then, when it went off, trigger the "real" event. You could have the sub-event make any checks or randomization you want for the "real" event, like impact points or raid points or whatever, or you could save those for when the event actually fires, depending on what you want predicted specifically.
It just needs now to find more links between specific and hard to get items and events.
Quote from: jamaicancastle on December 13, 2017, 07:42:53 PM
The easiest way to do it, I would think, is to basically create a sub-event that accompanies each event that you want to be predictable, which could be created from a few nodes in the same def, like recipeMakers are. It would be conditionally visible - that is, only visible if you meet the conditions, e.g., the right building installed and active. (In this case the building would need some code hooks, a comp probably, to handle detecting conditional events that are active when it's installed or whatever.) It would run for a certain duration and then, when it went off, trigger the "real" event. You could have the sub-event make any checks or randomization you want for the "real" event, like impact points or raid points or whatever, or you could save those for when the event actually fires, depending on what you want predicted specifically.
What would happen if the AI Storyteller would have decided against an event though? You would already have the prediction, wouldn't that force the storyteller to continue with the event even though a players colony has sustain a lot of damage from something else or their own mistakes.
This is just speculation I don't exactly know how and if Storytellers rethink their events.
Quote from: doomdrvk on December 14, 2017, 09:03:41 AM
What would happen if the AI Storyteller would have decided against an event though? You would already have the prediction, wouldn't that force the storyteller to continue with the event even though a players colony has sustain a lot of damage from something else or their own mistakes.
This is just speculation I don't exactly know how and if Storytellers rethink their events.
It depends of the storyteller. Randy can send you any event anytime, unlike Cassandra which allow some events only if you have enough wealth to afford them.
However, all the events are later scaled to match the colony power.
So if the prediction doesn't save the colony wealth and events are scaled to the wealth of the colony when the event really occurs, Randy meet no problem and the Cassandra problematic is in my opinion really minor.
Quote from: NeverPire on December 14, 2017, 10:16:52 AM
It depends of the storyteller. Randy can send you any event anytime, unlike Cassandra which allow some events only if you have enough wealth to afford them.
However, all the events are later scaled to match the colony power.
So if the prediction doesn't save the colony wealth and events are scaled to the wealth of the colony when the event really occurs, Randy meet no problem and the Cassandra problematic is in my opinion really minor.
What I was addressing were events like nuclear winter and toxic fallout where the only thing calculated is how long they last. These events add much more difficulty and they are events you addressed in your original post.
Quote from: doomdrvk on December 14, 2017, 11:07:16 AM
What I was addressing were events like nuclear winter and toxic fallout where the only thing calculated is how long they last. These events add much more difficulty and they are events you addressed in your original post.
On the other hand, don't forget that by warning the player of the future event, this feature will help him to prepare himself rightly, lowering the difficulty of these events and making them affordable for weaker colonies. By pursuing this idea, when a colony is estimated able to afford a toxic rain, if it is not attacked during this time it will overcome it easily and, if it has been heavy damaged, the knowledge of the future event will make it affordable. (hunt wild animals to get a lot of food and harvest crops for toxic rain, build heater or look for their components for volcanic winter)
Do you have an idea of which item could be useful to predict heatstrokes or cold snaps ?
Telescope could be used to predict solar flares too (much more useful than eclipses).
A telescope - or some kind of automated sky-watching camera - could warn you about imminent space debris: cargo pods, ship chunks, psychic/poison ship cores, even meteors. It wouldn't necessarily be a big warning, but enough time to maybe get some valuables (or at least pawns) out of the impact zone.
A perimeter sensor could warn you about raids. Probably a very short warning, maybe a couple of hours at best, but it would give you a general idea of the direction they're coming from, allowing you to rearrange your defenses accordingly. Maybe it could even tell you something of what to expect (e.g. the faction, general size, whether it's a siege or not).
Perimeter sensors might also be able to warn you about refugees or wanderers - not so much of a crunch benefit, but imagine the look on the guy's face when they tell him they already set a bed out for him. 8)
i really like where this is going. i guess for late game (and therefore best) tech you could send out satellites. with one satellite you sent out you will be warned about an incoming raid 0.5-6h in advance and approximately where they are coming from. for each other satellite you send out the lower end of prediction time is set up by half an hour and the upper by a whole hour, up to 24h (because you dont want it to be possible to delay attacks forever, also, gps in the real world works best with multiple satellites)
you could research this after droppods and once you started spacer stuff.
to predict heat waves and cold snaps i guess you would need a tech called meteorology, which could be researched (or improved) three times, once in medieval research tab which only gives you a short warning message delay with a high possibilty off failure to predict (be it a false alarm or not notifying you at all). then you could improve this in the industrial tree for medium success rate and delay and lastly spacer could research another upgrade that allows you to predict it even more reliably but once again only for each satellite you own.
obviously these research topics have to be interconnected, you cant gather data from a weather satellite or even send it out without having it researched first.
and how would all this work? the medieval research just gives your pawns the opportunity to catch interesting cloud formations and winds picking up or slowing down. so any time a pawn is outdoors the pawn can notice this and tell you about it (low possibility). using a telescope would improve the pawn's odds. wait, no, scratch that. only using the telescope would tell you, because it would be too hard for the engine to keep track of all the pawns outdoors.
industrial research would allowpawns at research desks to make further discoveries. what i mean by this is that pawns using the telescopes still tell you about their findings, but the research desks will usually tell you prior to them, except if you arent researching anything. (it is only the amount of time that a pawn spends researching that is calculated in this) occasionally, telescopes will tell you first anyway. basic research tables arent suited for this, only hi-tec research tables because they require electricity.
lastly, the satellites are entirely passive.
any thoughts on my idea about satellites and this new research towards meteorology?
My concern with this issue is that it gives rewards to colonies that have a lot of stuff (are doing well) and not to colonies that are struggling with basic necessities. In a way, that's like kicking a player when they are down, which doesn't seem like particularly good game design.
What might work is if you utilize old/injured and largely useless pawns to accomplish the same goal. Say Redfields' bad back always acts up a few hours before a tornado appears. Or your 92-year-old with dementia starts having dreams of dying squirrels a day before fallout starts raining down.
You aren't just rewarding more hoarding, you're turning bad pawns and injuries into assets.
honestly that doesnt make too much sense...
i mean yeah, maybe we should rather try and find solutions for the beginning and not more stuff for the hoarders, but health issues like that arent meant to have an upside. they exist solely to make your old veterans with all high skills a bit weaker to compensate and keep the game interesting
also, in the beginning you have extremely low expectations and weaker raids and so on, so that shouldnt be too much of an issue. in the beginning you shouldnt get the worst stuff anyway, only later, once you had the opportunity to research the things i talked about. dont you think?
or are you talking randy random? you cant do much with that guy. you are very rng-sus dependant there, i am talking cassandra.
Quote from: carbon on December 15, 2017, 10:37:15 AM
My concern with this issue is that it gives rewards to colonies that have a lot of stuff (are doing well) and not to colonies that are struggling with basic necessities. In a way, that's like kicking a player when they are down, which doesn't seem like particularly good game design.
Early colonies don't have the required tools to prepare themselves rightly against an event, even if they are warned of its coming. You need to have enough resources or pawns to match adequately the danger. What do you want to do with just a handful of pawns, no components left and just a survival rifle and a pistol as range weapons ?
Furthermore, with Cassandra, most of the events I have spoke about before are not yet available as you have still not match the required wealth.
Objects I propose for this feature are of little use at present and not easy to acquire, what forces the player to choose between reinforcing its defenses or buy a way to predict events. It's an interesting choice.
I appreciate the idea of satellite because they are only useful for this purpose and will cost a lot of resources which could be used for other interesting things and so leads to the same reasoning. Moreover, since A18, a colony can be stuck because it does not have a AI core. Until the possibility of acquiring it is offered, players have little to do. Satellites don't required AI core but other spaceships materials so they can be what miss now to keep a goal to the players in this situation.
I mentioned a while ago something that a colonist could use to predict weather, and this would be a great add-on. However, it kind of depends how long until the event actually happens from when you predict it, as this could make the difference from completely overpowered to pretty useless.
I like an idea where you could call up a friendly faction on a comms console and ask if they know anything about impending events. Tribes may know more about things like eclipses, pirates know more about things like raids.
Quote from: Oblivion on December 16, 2017, 09:30:20 AM
I mentioned a while ago something that a colonist could use to predict weather, and this would be a great add-on. However, it kind of depends how long until the event actually happens from when you predict it, as this could make the difference from completely overpowered to pretty useless.
I like an idea where you could call up a friendly faction on a comms console and ask if they know anything about impending events. Tribes may know more about things like eclipses, pirates know more about things like raids.
pirates probably wouldnt tell you squat because they also laugh at you if you send them money to improve status.
the idea is interesting though but i dont know if players would like it that they had to call people regularly for only this kind of info
anyway, i would find it more fitting if friendly spacers could tell you about meteorological and astronomical occurences, while friendly tribals could tell you if a local squirtel herd has gone wild for example, or if they saw a wandering pack of farm animals nearby, or if there was a warg infestation somewhere, or if they heard stories of an ancient towering beast that devours trees and smashes through mountains in search of eternal wisdom and so on
Quote from: Oblivion on December 16, 2017, 09:30:20 AM
I mentioned a while ago something that a colonist could use to predict weather, and this would be a great add-on. However, it kind of depends how long until the event actually happens from when you predict it, as this could make the difference from completely overpowered to pretty useless.
I like an idea where you could call up a friendly faction on a comms console and ask if they know anything about impending events. Tribes may know more about things like eclipses, pirates know more about things like raids.
It would need too many micromanagement's and will use already useful items, what I prefer to avoid to make predictions a gameplay choice from the player and not a feature he has just get by hazard.
I'm pretty against the idea of predicting events, it just makes the game easy when its suppose to be difficult, also I don't believe colonists have the skill of figuring out when these event happen using the equipment, you may have the equipment but do you know how to use it?
It also harms one of the main features, random events. Knowing when or where something is going to happen takes away from the unpredictability and story telling aspect of Rimworld which is what gives it its character. Overall I think it would do more harm than good to Rimworld.
Also why exactly would you look through a telescope directly at the sun to figure out if a solar flare is coming?
Quote from: doomdrvk on December 18, 2017, 02:12:10 PM
I'm pretty against the idea of predicting events, it just makes the game easy when its suppose to be difficult, also I don't believe colonists have the skill of figuring out when these event happen using the equipment, you may have the equipment but do you know how to use it?
It also harms one of the main features, random events. Knowing when or where something is going to happen takes away from the unpredictability and story telling aspect of Rimworld which is what gives it its character. Overall I think it would do more harm than good to Rimworld.
Also why exactly would you look through a telescope directly at the sun to figure out if a solar flare is coming?
About solar flares, scientists in the real world doesn't do anything other than looking in big telescopes to predict them by studying sunspots.
The game would become too easy only if you predict events too early. In my idea, predictions would work only for some hours or at max a few days before the event, just allowing you to take it into account. Maybe at the moment of this prediction, you are almost attacked by a raid or forced to manage another problem. Predictions just permit a better management of the colony.
I never speak about predict where an event will augur. This depends of the hazard of the nature or the own decision of raiders so it's unpredictable.
However, what do you think about make some wrong predictions to counterbalance the positive income ?
Quote from: doomdrvk on December 18, 2017, 02:12:10 PM
I'm pretty against the idea of predicting events, it just makes the game easy when its suppose to be difficult, also I don't believe colonists have the skill of figuring out when these event happen using the equipment, you may have the equipment but do you know how to use it?
It also harms one of the main features, random events. Knowing when or where something is going to happen takes away from the unpredictability and story telling aspect of Rimworld which is what gives it its character. Overall I think it would do more harm than good to Rimworld.
Also why exactly would you look through a telescope directly at the sun to figure out if a solar flare is coming?
i guess you are right for the most part. rimworld lives from its random nature. it's why people love randy so much (i dont, but i dont count ;) )
i would enjoy predictability at least in certain, very limited aspects in the game. i have to admit, my ideas of creating and launching satellites into orbit and using them for this purpose is wayyyy too much. even being able to predict so many things and what the last poster said, days in advance is overkill.
it still shouldnt be a game where you have to write down all the prediction you get so that you dont forget them until they happen. a few hours in advance is good, half a day is the upper max no matter what, even if it is nuclear winter with toxic fallout and psychic poison ships all combined at once with a solar flare with a cold snap to top it off. (it was your choice to play randy random on extreme afterall)
predicting raids might be a bad idea. but predicting the weather might still be an option especially because there is a realistic component of those prediction that just go wrong.
predicting many things is useless anyway. what are you going to do, if you know that there will be drop pods with rocks landing soon, be even more alert than you normally are? (game gets paused anyway)
maybe these predictions could be more of a hear say and you get only one a quadrum. for example you get a message that a nearby townfolk or wanderers told you that there was a mass of squirrels looking for human flesh on their way. you could arm all your pawns to the teeth and await them in defensive positions or just hope that it was a false alert. maybe you get more of these if you are on the road or near another town rather than on the north pole.
maybe a particularly large raid could get a warning message, like refugees running away tell you that there is a huge army of pirates rampaging through the region and they already burnt their town to ashes. but definitely dont make all raids predictable, that is the best part about them. also, the raiders would usually make sure that they arrive undetected.
I didn't think about predict raids, I have just followed Patoka's idea. These needs to stay unpredictable in my opinion.
However, long term weather event like volcanic winter, cold snap or toxic fallout are really interesting to predict. They make them more affordable without reducing drastically their generousness.
A non-prepared cold snap can be a direct death if you are a new player and don't know it can occur or just forget to take it into account.