So if you haven't seen my other post, I've only just started 1.0 but I still feel as if Tribals are missing quite a bit. The Tribal Essentials mod pack added a lot of neolithic feeling research and items to the game (armor, traps, etc.) and it felt like there were some or a lot its contents should already be in the base game. Tribal armor, or at the very least warmer clothing options such as fur/leather cloaks, are two options that aren't there and I feel they should be. The only way to get these items is to advance to Medieval level research and even then your vanilla options are modern parka's. I sort of feel like neolithic and medieval should their own versions of clothing to keep warm and stay cool while button down t-shirts and parkas should be an industrial research.
I'm all for just getting mods to add these things in once a stable 1.0 version is released but tribal starts have felt a little forgotten for ages even with the small additions that have been added in the more recent updates.
Just curious if anyone else feels like tribal should be fleshed out a bit more or if I'm in the minority and most people think that's how it should be in order to force advancement.
I agree, I think tribal start morphs pretty quickly into regular ole colonists, you can feel it after the first year even. A more fleshed out tribal tree, and a new scenario where tribals can't get past electricity and refuse to use guns and high tech stuff would be neat, but a disciplined player can do that already.
Honestly, the game is not all that much about playing as tribals. They're more there as another type of flavour to raids/visitors. This is the kind of thing that's perfectly fine to leave to mods.
As said before, it's a quick jump from tribal to industrial. I like that a few medieval techs were added and it's my hope that this continues. Maybe we could get more limitations on tribals, like researching how to mine, or just more filler between industrial and tribal like crossbows, trebuchets, etc.
Quote from: xrumblingcdsx on August 02, 2018, 08:11:42 PM
As said before, it's a quick jump from tribal to industrial. I like that a few medieval techs were added and it's my hope that this continues. Maybe we could get more limitations on tribals, like researching how to mine, or just more filler between industrial and tribal like crossbows, trebuchets, etc.
I'd be happy if all research industrial or higher gets disabled and most factions turned into tribals aswell.
That given, I wouldn't even need too much tribal content, as it offers already a lot in my opinion. Problem is mostly, that the step away from tribalism is quite small and tempting. E.g solar cells and coolers.
Having a wood/chemfuel generator would be the best I want to use on tribals, and thus only for lights, workbench and maybe a captured tube television.
I pretty much always do some tribal variation of play. Either custom NB as tribal or modified tribal start. I'd like a few more early techs as well because it does feel like you spend very little time there, even with the heavy research cost, since electricity is basically RIGHT THERE and once you get that, well....
I'm kinda surprised there isn't another step between neo and electricity, or at least electricity and the high tech bench.
I was thinking, Tribal scenario maybe needs its own winning condition.
I don't think they always want to leave their planet like crashlanded people.
What does one mean by "tribal?" There are tribals today who live in the jungle and hunt for a living, tribals who care for herds of cattle and tribals who ride around in the desert on camels and trucks? Are you no longer tribals if you have guns. That can't be right because indigenous peoples in the Americas traded guns too.
The way I see it, "tribal" in the Rimworld context is basically low-tech colonies. The best way to force yourself to be tribal is to simply disable research for electricity.
That being said, pure tribal runs are very much not intended. The game will ramp up and up and up until you forced yourself to build proper bunkers, craft better guns and advance yourself as a tribe. I have numerous time to play pure tribal. No electricity or the like. It's just ..... not very fun. Doable, to a point, but unless you disable mechanoids or pirate raids, it's only a matter a time till you get your colony gets wiped out. Raiders will get better weapons, mechanoids will swarm you. Get better gear or die.
Consider this: without electricity you can't preserve meat, you can't craft proper medicine, you can't replace lost limbs (without depending on traders/quests), you can't build better guns and you certainly can't hope to face pirates and mechanoids who want to murder you. Every tribal run playing as intended will finally become a colony no different than the Rich Explorer and Crashlanded scenarios except with slower research.
This is fine. This intended gameplay. But I can't help but to think that there's something lost not being able to live low-tech life. Rimworld's satisfaction falls onto building better facilities and more comforting things for your colony. Rimworld doesn't really have a medieval tree. You go from neolithic tribals to 21st century colonists quite easily. The inability to preserve meat, which is something people did long before airconditioning, is a prime example of this.
Well, in the context of Rimworld, tribal is effectively a tech level, not a modern day culture term.
I don't want to do pure tribal runs. I just like to start that way because it makes the early game a little longer and take a little more thought and challenge. Currently with the way the tech tree works you pretty much can skip a ton of the early game techs almost immediately. Things like plate armor for example. You move into flak capability really fast without even trying just getting the few other select techs you need that by the time you think "hm, I should research this" you're actually thinking "why would I bother at this point?"
Some things, like electricity, are required. They are core and key. Other things like devilstrand are purely optional. If there was a little more stretch in the early game with interesting techs to keep you progressing forward without immedaitely jumping ahead huge tech levels I think it could make the early game more fun and rewarding.
I'd like a little more reason to not skip those early techs is all. Make the progression feel a little more paced properly. There isn't much of a point playing a tribal game if you literally jump into industrial age almost right away lol.
I think in vanilla, it's just meant to be that: a tribal start. Soon enough you get modern weapons and research and move on.
1.0 has indirectly given some love to tribals though, with plate armors, simple helmets at smithy bench, you can decently melee fight mechanoids. I did a vanilla tribal run in previous versions and it was a cheese festival because they had no decent armor and melee was terrible.
What i feel is slightly missing in vanilla from tribal essentials are actually a tribal warm cloth, earthen mounts, and neolithic forge/ stove. But the only point would be to play tribals on the long run, which is more in the realm of a modded run than vanilla.
Like Namsan mention, tribal should need a different winning condition.
Currently, Tribal isn't a gameplay it is just a difficult.
Lower tech starting equip and higher research cost
vs
5 starting pawn you can roll out.
But tribal still need to fight against mechanoids and build a spaceship or travel to the existing one.
But if you want more tribal love/feeling, there are alot of mod's out for your needs.
I agree with most, because more content is always better.
But if you want to experience a really different playstyle, try making it a nomadic experience. Before every winter, you caravan to another place of the world. For a tribal colony, I limit myself to GreatBows, Pilas and Melee and do not Research anything related to eletronics.
Can one technically cheat winter by just moving to a tropical rainforest, like, forever? Well yeah, I've done so, but it does mean I'll be less inclined to be nomadic.
Scenarios are just a variation of the base game, and haven't been around that long. Tribal is hard mode, but it's still the same game. While it could be fun and I fully support mods that flesh out the content, I don't think it makes any sense to spend time developing a parallel game to the one that already exists with arbitrary limitations. Tribal is just a different path to the same goal, it's not meant to be a totally different experience.
With that said, I think some minor changes to the tribal start could make it less generic. It starts off well with the "gods were angry and destroyed your village" bit, but then you just get all the ol' regular events like Charleston Whitestone or whatever his name is, the AI that my tribal pawns apparently befriended during their trip to outer space they didn't tell me about. Some tribal-themed flavor text and themed events that stop once you reach a certain technology level could help make it feel more unique.
Agreed! Want! Liked and retweeted!
And for those of you that do self imposed tribal4lyfe games without electricity, what do you use as win conditions? Since you can't win with a rocket launch.
Quote from: Scavenger on August 03, 2018, 07:59:14 PM
Agreed! Want! Liked and retweeted!
And for those of you that do self imposed tribal4lyfe games without electricity, what do you use as win conditions? Since you can't win with a rocket launch.
Kill every non-tribal colony, make peace with every tribal colony. Die to mechanoids.
Pretty much it. Always have pemmican if you need to rush out to somewhere (extreme cold, mechanoids, insects went out of control)
I think my biggest gripe about the tribal scenario is that there is real medieval era tech. You basically have some optional money maker research between neolithic and industrial but that's all. There is no research smoke houses to preserve meat or making medieval style fur coats to stay warm in the winter or protective clothing to stay cool in the summer; instead you jump from straight wearing simple one piece tribal wear into parkas, dusters, and cowboy hats. No researching of catapults or crossbows, just straight into Assault Rifles and Mortars. Hell, even the traps are limited and there's no research at all for those.
The fact that a tribal scenario is basically a crash landed with more bodies, slower research, and not starting out with electricity already researched is probably the largest disappointment thus far.
Don't get me wrong, I am all for mods making a game better (thank you Low Tech and Medieval Times creators) but I still feel as if SOME parts of those mods should already be in the base game if you're going to have scenarios like the tribal start and such. There should definitely be a different win condition. Why would a native to the planet want to build a spaceship and leave for example? I won't mention how it makes no sense that an AI is capable of contacting a group of people that don't even know what a light bulb is yet.
Quote from: Scavenger on August 03, 2018, 07:59:14 PM
Agreed! Want! Liked and retweeted!
And for those of you that do self imposed tribal4lyfe games without electricity, what do you use as win conditions? Since you can't win with a rocket launch.
With the way the game currently is I haven't really had a firm win condition for my tribal starts. I like to try different base designs and such in different biomes and see how long they survive. With my skill level it typically isn't very long but it's still fun and easily replayable. With the other scenarios you basically have the same strategy of researching gun turrets and forming a killbox to win which never seems to change.