Hi guys, I just want to know what is the most protective outfit without armor.
So material wise, I think devilstrand is very cost-effective, but obviously hyperweave is the most protective.
Here's the outfit I have in mind:
Jacket
Tuque/Cowboy hat (depending on what biome you're playing on)
Button-down shirt
Pants
I'm not sure if I'm missing something, but that's all the clothes I can fit in one single pawn. If you guys have a better idea, please share it with the rest of us :)
Why a Jacket and not a Duster?
Quote from: Dusty_Monk on September 13, 2018, 12:17:34 PM
Why a Jacket and not a Duster?
Not sure if a duster is better. Can anyone check? I'm not playing the game right now
Looks like they're identical for armor, including heat armor, except a duster protects the legs. Duster of course is better heat insulation, jacket is better with cold.
Quote from: vampiresoap on September 13, 2018, 01:06:20 PM
Quote from: Dusty_Monk on September 13, 2018, 12:17:34 PM
Why a Jacket and not a Duster?
Not sure if a duster is better. Can anyone check? I'm not playing the game right now
Duster(iguana Skin)(LEgendary 100%) ->
Blunt = 5.3%
Sharp = 12%
Heat = 14%
----------------------------------------
Jacket (Iguana Skin)(Superior 100%) ->
Sharp = 8.8%
heat = 4.2%
--------------------------------
Quote from: Lads on September 13, 2018, 01:35:09 PM
Duster(iguana Skin)(Legendary 100%) ->
Jacket (Iguana Skin)(Superior 100%) ->
Quality matters here.
Quote from: Drewski on September 13, 2018, 01:24:15 PM
Looks like they're identical for armor, including heat armor, except a duster protects the legs. Duster of course is better heat insulation, jacket is better with cold.
If dusters protect the legs, then they are definitely better. (If we ignore climate limitations) The same reason I picked button-down shirts over plain T-shirts.
Quality matters, I'm pretty sure its either devil strand or lizard skin that is the best.
generally I go Duster, T-shirt Pants.
Nothing worse than normal quality for my colonists, and then I sell the rest.
Dusters covered legs in 18. I assume they still do in 19. If you want to stop scythers from blowing your legs off, devilstrand dusters and pants are the way to go.
Quote from: Shurp on September 13, 2018, 11:44:31 PM
Dusters covered legs in 18. I assume they still do in 19. If you want to stop scythers from blowing your legs off, devilstrand dusters and pants are the way to go.
Lancer armor penetration is so high that for devilstrand its practically equivalent to not wearing anything.
Dusters cover legs and I haven't seen anything about regular Jacket that suggests they are superior in any way. If insulation is a problem, you're probably wearing a parka anyway.
However, clothes, even devilstrand clothes are a lot less reliable as armor since B18. I give everyone a flak vest, at the very least. Helms and flak pants go to anyone who's likely to take a shot. A flak jacket is probably superior to a duster as arm and torso protection.
Just to make sure we're all on the same page here, here are assembled screencaps of excellent jacket and duster stats for lizard, devil, and hyper. Another image of an awful and legendary charge lance, since the issue came up, lancers can spawn with varying quality weapons, and I had dev mode open already.
https://imgur.com/a/5cVj0vD
As you can see, dusters and jackets are identical except for leg protection and insulation. Lizardskin is far worse than devilstrand in every way, so I don't know what people are excited about there.
I don't know how armor penetration works, especially with multiple layers of armor, so I don't really have an opinion on duster v. lancer.
Quote from: Drewski on September 14, 2018, 06:06:06 AM
Just to make sure we're all on the same page here, here are assembled screencaps of excellent jacket and duster stats for lizard, devil, and hyper. Another image of an awful and legendary charge lance, since the issue came up, lancers can spawn with varying quality weapons, and I had dev mode open already.
https://imgur.com/a/5cVj0vD
As you can see, dusters and jackets are identical except for leg protection and insulation. Lizardskin is far worse than devilstrand in every way, so I don't know what people are excited about there.
I don't know how armor penetration works, especially with multiple layers of armor, so I don't really have an opinion on duster v. lancer.
Man, that legendary Lancer can murder your pawns so quick that by the time you notice it, it'd be too late. Even the awful version is so powerful.
I usually go with steel helmet, devilstrand pants, duster, button down shirt, and a flak vest.
Not near my laptop now, can someone say if it's better to have flak pants or devilstrand pants?
You know, the rimworld jokes are only going to get worse with all this talk about penetration...
Back to the topic, from the wiki:
"1.The armor rating is reduced by the armor penetration value. The value is dependent on the weapon."
The excellent devilstrand duster has a sharp armor rating of 54.6%. The awful charge lance has a penetration of 40%. So if the reduction is arithmetic, the duster still offers 14.6% protection. Against the 67% legendary lance it offers a literal zero.
If the reduction is geometric, then the duster offers 33% and 18% respectively.
In any case, a regular duster isn't giving much protection against a charge lance.
Quote from: Shurp on September 14, 2018, 07:14:18 AMIn any case, a regular duster isn't giving much protection against a charge lance.
Maybe. I'm not sure how the duster will interact with pants. Does the duster get figured first and pants second, or do they stack in some way before reduction?
Quote from: Drewski on September 14, 2018, 06:06:06 AM
Just to make sure we're all on the same page here, here are assembled screencaps of excellent jacket and duster stats for lizard, devil, and hyper. Another image of an awful and legendary charge lance, since the issue came up, lancers can spawn with varying quality weapons, and I had dev mode open already.
https://imgur.com/a/5cVj0vD
As you can see, dusters and jackets are identical except for leg protection and insulation. Lizardskin is far worse than devilstrand in every way, so I don't know what people are excited about there.
I don't know how armor penetration works, especially with multiple layers of armor, so I don't really have an opinion on duster v. lancer.
I'm still starting the game, I do not know much about everything.
And my ship fell into a region where there are not so many good resources, and lizard skin is what there is hehe
Quote from: Drewski on September 14, 2018, 07:48:45 AM
Quote from: Shurp on September 14, 2018, 07:14:18 AMIn any case, a regular duster isn't giving much protection against a charge lance.
Maybe. I'm not sure how the duster will interact with pants. Does the duster get figured first and pants second, or do they stack in some way before reduction?
each layer is calculated separately, and full armor penetration is calculated against each one.
So a 72% shirt and 72% duster will provide no protection against legend glance with 72 ap
Quote from: bbqftw on September 14, 2018, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Drewski on September 14, 2018, 07:48:45 AM
Quote from: Shurp on September 14, 2018, 07:14:18 AMIn any case, a regular duster isn't giving much protection against a charge lance.
Maybe. I'm not sure how the duster will interact with pants. Does the duster get figured first and pants second, or do they stack in some way before reduction?
each layer is calculated separately, and full armor penetration is calculated against each one.
So a 72% shirt and 72% duster will provide no protection against legend glance with 72 ap
So armor basically sucks in Rimworld? lol...I've had too many decked out pawns died to naked raiders carrying clubs.
Thanks for the heads up. So build assault rifles and turrets and forget the rest. (Bolt action rifles in the early game)
I guess this will be one of the few colonies I play where I bother to build the ship since there's not much else worth building.
Quote from: Shurp on September 14, 2018, 06:49:23 PM
Thanks for the heads up. So build assault rifles and turrets and forget the rest. (Bolt action rifles in the early game)
I guess this will be one of the few colonies I play where I bother to build the ship since there's not much else worth building.
Shotgun got a buff in B19, especially against unarmored like tribal. I watched a raider with one decimate a third of my colonists and animals all by themselves with middle of the road shooting in unstable.
I usually don't worry about what the clothes are made of. It doesn't matter like it used to. I would be interesting if there is a difference between devilstrand and cloth flak, unless that didn't make it to release.
Quote from: vampiresoap on September 14, 2018, 12:55:52 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on September 14, 2018, 11:15:21 AM
Quote from: Drewski on September 14, 2018, 07:48:45 AM
Quote from: Shurp on September 14, 2018, 07:14:18 AMIn any case, a regular duster isn't giving much protection against a charge lance.
Maybe. I'm not sure how the duster will interact with pants. Does the duster get figured first and pants second, or do they stack in some way before reduction?
each layer is calculated separately, and full armor penetration is calculated against each one.
So a 72% shirt and 72% duster will provide no protection against legend glance with 72 ap
So armor basically sucks in Rimworld? lol...I've had too many decked out pawns died to naked raiders carrying clubs.
as rule of thumb, its better to have one high armor value layer than multiple medium armor value layers
Quote from: Shurp on September 14, 2018, 06:49:23 PM
Thanks for the heads up. So build assault rifles and turrets and forget the rest. (Bolt action rifles in the early game)
I guess this will be one of the few colonies I play where I bother to build the ship since there's not much else worth building.
Man, I feel ya. Especially since the clothes and armors deteriorate pretty quick...I think I'll just stick with devilstrand clothes and cheap simple helmets for efficiency. I mean, like, it's better than wearing nothing, right? lol
Hmmm... I'm just trying to figure out if I wasted a pile of money buying Hyperweave at a local settlement. I saw the 200% armor figure and went "woohoo!" But I now realize a normal hyperweave tuque is only going to offer a 40% sharp armor value. That will deflect some revolver rounds, not too many bolt action rifle rounds, and do nothing against charge lances...
Has this new armor system actually been playtest? It sounds like it's going to be pretty awful.
Quote from: Shurp on September 15, 2018, 11:32:07 AM
Hmmm... I'm just trying to figure out if I wasted a pile of money buying Hyperweave at a local settlement. I saw the 200% armor figure and went "woohoo!" But I now realize a normal hyperweave tuque is only going to offer a 40% sharp armor value. That will deflect some revolver rounds, not too many bolt action rifle rounds, and do nothing against charge lances...
Has this new armor system actually been playtest? It sounds like it's going to be pretty awful.
The incredibly high value of hyperweave clothing makes it very stupid to put on your colonists. I think a full set of hyperweave is worth what, 3000? That's basically power-armor levels, and does it have the same benefits? I think not.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on September 15, 2018, 02:33:22 PM
Quote from: Shurp on September 15, 2018, 11:32:07 AM
Hmmm... I'm just trying to figure out if I wasted a pile of money buying Hyperweave at a local settlement. I saw the 200% armor figure and went "woohoo!" But I now realize a normal hyperweave tuque is only going to offer a 40% sharp armor value. That will deflect some revolver rounds, not too many bolt action rifle rounds, and do nothing against charge lances...
Has this new armor system actually been playtest? It sounds like it's going to be pretty awful.
The incredibly high value of hyperweave clothing makes it very stupid to put on your colonists. I think a full set of hyperweave is worth what, 3000? That's basically power-armor levels, and does it have the same benefits? I think not.
Also, colony wealth is another factor to consider...like, sure, you can put on super expensive clothes and armors to get slightly better protection, but surprise, surprise, now you have to deal with 2 more raiders because reasons.
Quote from: vzoxz0 on September 15, 2018, 02:33:22 PM
The incredibly high value of hyperweave clothing makes it very stupid to put on your colonists. I think a full set of hyperweave is worth what, 3000? That's basically power-armor levels, and does it have the same benefits? I think not.
Well, in the b18 armor system it *did* have the same benefits. I guess that's why I'm whining about the new system, it seems to have nerfed it badly.
As for b19, I'm just looking to keep my colonists warm and protect their heads at the same time. A hyperweave tuque provides as much armor as an advanced helmet and keeps him warm too. But if "as much armor" is "no armor at all" then yeah, it's probably not worth the bother.
Why in the hell should clothes have the same benefits as ACTUAL ARMOR? That was a balancing issue that was ADDRESSED.
If you're wearing bulky steel plate, odds are, you're going to be better defended than wearing some puny clothes.
Similarly, if you're wearing power armor, you're more likely to stop a high tech weapon from slashing through you like butter than if you're wearing a shirt made of thrumbo fur.
We're not talking about clothing made of cotton. We're talking about clothing made of devilstrand, synthread, and hyperweave, which are supposed to be high-tech superfabrics comparable to steel plates!
It's a game *feature* that high tech clothes have the same benefits as armor, because otherwise, why bother? As you said earlier, "The incredibly high value of hyperweave clothing makes it very stupid to put on your colonists". Well? Why then is hyperweave in the game? Just for you to sell and get silver?
If anyone is going to actually use hyperweave, either its value has to be reduced or its armor value improved so that it is actually worth using!
It's not like they don't help, but _they aren't armor_, and they shouldn't be unless they're classed as such. Armor has inherent downsides like being bulky.
You can sow your clothes out of spider-silk, one of the strongest materials known to man, it's still useless if you get shot with it and it's not specially intended to serve as armor.
I can't find the other thread and I don't want to create a new one, but I just had a colonist wearing an excellent simple steel helmet die to a shortbow arrow from maximum range. One hit kill, brain destroyed. b19
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mp48Q487/Screenshot_from_2018-10-01_20-26-36.png)
I don't feel encouraged to participate in combat at all.
Simple helmet provides like 30% protection against a brainshot. Even a typical power helmet gives you 50% against typical weapons.
Not like there is much difference between 3/10 brain and dead since you typically go years between serum offers. Or in recent 7 year victory, no serums at all.
Helmet is just psychological, best is play in super conservative way where you don't get hit at all. Any time you let an enemy fire at your unshielded pawn it is a mistake. Even against sappers this level of play is possible.
Another strategy that I find works quite well is stop caring when one of your pawns dies. Bad things happen and you gotta roll with it. It actually makes the game easier for a while, too.
That's exploiting the adaptation system. If u wanna do that u might as well burn all ur stuff and do ultra low wealth.
A hyperthread cap would have been... almost as useless. Well, he would have survived with brain damage instead of dying. So maybe negative worth?
Anyway, most armor is useless in b19. Just Say No. Flak vests are worthwhile to keep your chest cavity organs in one piece. Everything else, forget it.
Assault rifles, on the other hand, have been buffed and are quite worthwhile. You can mow down bow carrying tribals quickly before they have much chance to put holes in your pawns' heads. And charge rifles are nice too if you mod the range out to 35.
Basically, b19 rewards offense. Get out there and kill 'em quick.
Quote from: zizard on October 01, 2018, 07:11:11 PM
That's exploiting the adaptation system. If u wanna do that u might as well burn all ur stuff and do ultra low wealth.
No. It's not.
Killing your weakest pawn every 30 days (or whatever) is exploiting the adaptation system. Not reloading when someone dies in power armor when you otherwise took reasonable (not unreasonable, like micromanaging every millisecond of a battle) measures to keep them alive is playing the game.
If simulating playing bad is so close to actually playing bad that the two are indistinguishable how can it be an exploit????
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 01, 2018, 07:01:18 PM
Another strategy that I find works quite well is stop caring when one of your pawns dies. Bad things happen and you gotta roll with it. It actually makes the game easier for a while, too.
This is the best answer, the game becomes a lot more fun when you can shrug off colonist deaths (which I admit can be hard to do!). One of my favorite colonies was one I didn't care about, they all had beer and tea and a careless god :P Watching crazy youtubers like xwynns is a good way to get into the spirit of not caring too much, it's good fun.
It helps that Rimworld is generous with throwing new colonists at you, so even if half your pawns die and most of your base gets burned to the ground there's still hope to rebuild. Getting attached to your pawns definitely doesn't pay.
Going back to topic, I think war veils and ceremonial shaman headdress is the way to go now. Except... I'm not sure pain resistance is actually an upgrade. A downed colonist is almost always a surviving colonist, unless everything is on fire.
Quote from: b0rsuk on October 03, 2018, 01:13:35 PM
Going back to topic, I think war veils and ceremonial shaman headdress is the way to go now. Except... I'm not sure pain resistance is actually an upgrade. A downed colonist is almost always a surviving colonist, unless everything is on fire.
Or they're being hunted for food. A wimp getting targeted by the warg that happens to be standing next to him is more likely to be killed than most any other thing in the game.
doesn't help much vs. head, but i find the steel plate armor to be pretty darned strong in combat. Its early in the tech tree, relatively cheap (its a lot of metal, but no components, so it won't drain pre-fabrication resources too permanently), and easily gets sharp protection over 100% with good quality.
Yes I realize you're asking about "non-armor" items, but really all the outfit pieces are interchangeable. shirt/pants, steel plate armor, and cowboy hat or tuque and you're about as protected as you can be pre-marine armor