I had an idea for a game, where I'd take 3 crash landed pawns who each had 2 of the worst 6 traits in the game. However, I'm not sure which 6 would be considered by the community to be the worst.
The "Big 3" candidates I have right now are:
Chemical Fascination
Gourmand
Pyromaniac
The possible ones to add that I have are:
Annoying Voice
Creepy Breathing
Wimp
Chemical Interest
Slothful
Slowpoke
Depressive
Volatile
Staggeringly Ugly
Psychically Hypersensitive
So, which 3 of the 10 possibilities should I put on the list? I'm leaning toward Chemical Interest and Wimp, and maybe Slothful? Don't know. I'd love to hear ideas. Also any really good arguments that the "Big 3" should NOT be on the list are welcome, but they'd have to be pretty good arguments.
Also, an actual ranking of 1-6 worst-best is ideal, as I'd like to match them up 1 with 6, 2 with 5, and 3 with 4, unless you simply can't like with Chemical Fascination/Interest.
My idea is that each colonist would have one of those big 3, and then 1 of the other ones as well, using Prepare Carefully to force those but nothing else, and just take the first pawn that maches the list. Then drop somewhere and see how they die.
I meant fare. See how well they die.
Damn it. How well they FARE.
top 3 in order
Pyromaniac
Gourmand
Wimp
conditional ones in no order:
the ones that make you freak out for the random psychic events
the ones that make you randomly try drugs and get addicted and useless
the ones that make you too slow to get back to base when you are attacked or there is a raid
the ones that make your work speed so slow that it takes 3 days to mine a square.
I can handle most of the conditional ones but I just save scum gourmands or pyromaniacs since it's game over at different stages of the game.
depressive volatile very neurotic
wimp isn't too bad to play around assuming they have less than 10% pain worth of pain scars. Very valuable trait, I rate it top tier actually.
interesting discussion though!!
my ordering would be, under typical play:
gourmand/pyro/chemfasc/volatile/depressive/chemint(maybe Vneurotic in this slot)
but this isnt the best for maximizing loss%! - I think pyro and chemfasc are overrated in this category if you really want some truly awful games. For this, I think picking purely negative or +breakthreshold traits, or picking a synergistic list (see the two I've prepared below), is more likely to ruin your game. I (and most other players) just dislike instabreaks because it discourages investing into said pawns. But really, the guaranteed breaks don't happen so often as to consistently throw a game.
Interestingly, if you go for very high mood tanking, gourmand and pyro start becoming potentially positive options since their only allowable breaks are food binge / fire starter (according to the defs files at least). So refined mood disaster list changes to:
volatile/depressive/vneurotic/toosmart/neurotic/pessimist
pretty boring list, but it avoids anti-synergies with the guaranteed break traits.
one potentially spicy option would be to pick abrasives + staggering uglies + creepy breathing + bloodlusts (bonus: head scars for disfigured and all the ex-es you can find) and go for multiple social fights a day. Then you got the mood problems covered because everyone is insulting each other and constantly in pain.
another spicy option is go for resource taxation where your colony is full of so many lazies and worthless that you cant get anything done. for this I would prioritize - gourmand / sickly / slothful / lazy / volatile / depressive. Gourmand is obviously an all star, this is the one I would pick for all 3, sickly gives you extra 'presents' every 2 months or so and further taxes your work output, slothful/lazy to make putting food on the table a challenge. The last 2 picks to round out the list aren't very synergistic, but honestly its hard to find things worse than +18% break threshold. Sadly these two traits are just so bad in all situations that conditional traits that I would otherwise pick to pressure your work output like greedy+jealous don't even come close.
what this discussion makes me conclude is that gourmand is by far the worst trait in the game!
In my current colony I rescued a Sickly on a caravan mission in the very early game. Figured he was better than returning empty handed.
Then i came back to my base with him and two days later he died from spontanously contracted plague & flu at the same time, the first of which also struck my starter pawn (NB, so she was easily the best colonist i had). She died 1 day later.
I am never taking a Sickly ever again.
I started a Randy Savage* game with:
Pyromaniac with Psychically Hypersensitive
Gourmand with Chemical Interest
Wimp with Chemical Fascination
So far everything's been fine. We've doubled our crew and have 2 raiders softening up, and are going on our first caravan to save someone's sister from a sleeping mechanoid. I'm sure it will be fine.
Assuming it fails miserably I'll try some of the other ones as well.
I'm not doing anything special, though I'll tell you with two chemical folks I'm not going to be making any drugs that's for sure :D
*Need a little EXCITEMENT?
Wimp has anti-synergy with the break traits since you can punch them out.
You want to see my worst trait list?
Quote from: The Worst Trait List
Volatile/Nervous. These have a nasty synergy with Neurotic & Too Smart Traits. Expect him or her to start frequent throwing tantrums or hiding in the room & turning him or her into a Yayo Addict
Wimp. For some reason can also appear with some traits that it shouldn't. Just make sure he or she stays far away & has a long-ranged weapon or stays in a safe room like the one with mortars outside or a panic room.
Chemical Interest/Fascination. Not only that they also have a high chance of becoming an addict to your Smokeleaf or you Yayo Products. Avoid their withdraw just keep the production what they are addicted to or just keep them in a cyrosleep casket or just kick them out if they become too addicted, Just waiting their addiction out might help but that means mental breakdown from him/her.
Body purist. When you give them a Bionic arm that replaces his or her missing arm. They will freakout alot & start throwing tantrums or angering fights in your colony in a berserk rage. Best to give them a simple prosthetic arm or just hope you get a Mech Healer if he/she's your best person working in your colony.
Sickly. Bad news for him or her, it's a waste of medicine if it's industrial or gliterworld medicine if he or she gets the worst diseases. Good news for your doctors to train their doctoring skills if your full of herbal medicine in storage in the clinic.
Pyromaniac. He or She might ignite your stockpile on fire or your Chemfuel Storage or worst if your colony is mostly made of burnable materials. When He or She starts a fire inside just beat him or her up with your Guards or just try to arrest him or her, A berserk mental break is much less worse than a one that start fires. Trust me either replace your stuff with non-burnable materials or separate your stockpile that might get set on fire & keep your Chemfuel storage somewhere that it won't explode. Otherwise just banish him or her Unless he or she's married or a relative to your one of your best guys in your colony. Or you just don't care.
One thing ppl seem to have missed is Frail (or Bad Back for the lesser version)..
Quote from: Snafu_RW on September 27, 2018, 01:36:40 PM
One thing ppl seem to have missed is Frail (or Bad Back for the lesser version)..
those aren't actual "Traits", but modifiers due to physical issues.
As for me
I try to avoid chemical fascination/interest: I don't usually run a drug production system, but I've had a few bad experiences with drug related breakdowns so I'd rather not have someone likely to raid what drug stocks I do acquire.
I hate slothful/lazy: who wants needs someone who won't work hard.
I'm not a fan of the psychically sensitive types: they are much more likely to mentally break when you do get a psychic drone.
I'm not a fan of volatile/neurotic types: mental breaks are always a problem, who wants to make them more likely?
As for the others that have been mentioned.
Pyromaniac - I'll avoid them at the start, but I always build primarily in stone and prefer stone tile floors, so eventually my bases are largely resistant to fire. They aren't a first choice, but I've had some very successful colonies despite having a pyromaniac in the colony.
Wimp - I'd never give one of these a melee weapon, but they can still help in the colony. They are just a proxy for a non-violent type, although if you can give them a sniper rifle and they have the shooting they can help against raids.
Gourmand - frustrating, but I find I can live with them if necessary.
At least that's how I feel.
pyromaniac isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be, at least in my experience. same goes with chemical interest/fascination. if it gets out of hand, they go to jail for awhile.
my main bad traits are:
-wimp
-gourmand
-slothful
-staggeringly ugly
drugs provide a big propotion to my bases' income, usually, so chem. related traits 're worst for me
for pyromaniac, i can just draft 1 other pawn and subdue the fire immediately so not much problem
a wimp melee can be worst than a chem fascinated pawn, basically useless as combatant
lazy+slothful is next in order, for me, it's all about efficient+effective, all about being productive
i often spend heavily on bionics+archotechs, etc. so body purist is worst than all in long term
I'm playing a very long game where two of my initial pawns have a Chemical Interest. Yes, it's a bit annoying at times, but generally not so bad. For the first while I ran a strictly drug-free colony so the binges didn't matter. When the population got bigger I dipped my feet into psychoids. I make separate rooms for drug storage and keep Important woodpiles at the door so someone can race over and wall it off when they go on a binge. Most of the time that works. Thankfully I haven't had any Luciferm around when it happened.
I have a pyromaniac who's much more annoying. Granted he's not hard to cope with - just follow 'em around with a conscripted pawn. All you need to do is stand beside the fire and the conscript will put it out. But it's annoying because it eats up all my attention for the duration of the binge. That can be a problem when you're trying to deal with a simultaneous raid somewhere else. Oh, and the pyro did manage to set over half my map on fire one time. I was too busy to deal with him so just let him start the forest on fire, expecting it to rain once things got bad enough. The rain didn't come, and the blaze got totally out of control. It was actually rather hilarious:
"Dude, you're torching your only hope for survival..."
"F** it! I've had enough of this wretched place and these aweful people. Let it burn!"
======== Big NO Trait ========
Kill on spot, take no prisoner, banish on sight.
1 Bloodlust
- I don't like my colonist to bite each other eye/finger/nose blah blah out.
2 Abrasive
- Please don't call your friend an amphibian and -5 mood for no reason.
3 Jealous, Greedy, Depressive, Pessimist
- Free mood debuff for no reason. No way man.
4 Chemical interest and fascination
- Tea are only once every 2 days for everyone in my colonist to relax. Wake up is for emergency time like sleepy doctor vs 10 patient who will die within 3 hours. These colonist with the chemical trait don't care and take em all on binge then die from overdose or cancer.
======== Little no trait ========
Manageable but still a pain in the ass.
1 Beautiful, Pretty, Creepy breathing, Annoying voice, Ugly, Stagering ugly, misandrist and misogynist.
- Beautiful and pretty sound good at first before they cheat on other husband. Banish them out or killing them affect the whole colonist mood too.
While ugly and staggering ugly have a hard life from keeping reject over and over. Both side of colonist (neither confess side nor rejected side) got mood debuff. They are still great to use as disposable pawn to die in the front line. My whole colonist will do a party in their funeral from mood buff. Poor guy...
2 Slothful, Slowpoke, Lazy
- Too slow even on speed 3.
3. Wimp
- Can't fight at all. Down even from a merely food poisoning. However, after installing them a pain stopper. They'll die after one berserk.
4. Sickly
- Bad until the colony can sustain penoxycyline dose.
5. Volatile, Nervous, Neurotic and Very Neurotic
- Easy to break but no mood debuff. So they still can get inspired from time to time. These guy can't endure the hardship on caravan so don't bother send them out of the colony though.
6. Body purist
- Nothing good from this trait.
7 Psychic Hypersensitive + Normal sensitive
- Drone are nasty at late game. -48 mood is crazy and the psychic hat are trade only item. Manual manage the colonist with this trait to wear the hat while drone coming and take it off after the drone is gone are the pain in the ass.
8 Nudist
- Almost the same reason as Psychic Hypersensitive. I don't want a to micro-manage those apparel too much.
9. Non-violent
- Not really a trait but still somewhat on probation on my colonist. If they know a good skill like doctor or having a good trait then they're acceptable.
Quote from: bbqftw on September 27, 2018, 01:57:25 AM
one potentially spicy option would be to pick abrasives + staggering uglies + creepy breathing + bloodlusts (bonus: head scars for disfigured and all the ex-es you can find) and go for multiple social fights a day. Then you got the mood problems covered because everyone is insulting each other and constantly in pain.
another spicy option is go for resource taxation where your colony is full of so many lazies and worthless that you cant get anything done. for this I would prioritize - gourmand / sickly / slothful / lazy / volatile / depressive. Gourmand is obviously an all star, this is the one I would pick for all 3, sickly gives you extra 'presents' every 2 months or so and further taxes your work output, slothful/lazy to make putting food on the table a challenge.
You are one sick puppy.
My number-one is Chemical Fascination. I hate these goddamn pawns so much. You just can't have drugs around without them blowing through limited stocks and getting fucked up. I guess they are supposed to chill out once they have a habit, but my whole strategy is to avoid addiction so they're basically immediately disqualified unless they are HIGHLY desirable in some other way (unlikely).
Sickly is shitty. They burn through medicine stocks and since they're almost always ill they are not efficient pawns.
Gourmand is brutal in the early game. A break in the first year can be devastating. It's not even worth trying to Naked Brutality with a Gourmand. Once you're established it doesn't really matter as much, but they have an annoying habit of breaking work to go stuff more food down their pie-hole.
I don't like Body Purist because I will augment everyone if I have the resources. If they get a leg or arm blown off they just aren't worth it, and it is only a matter of time.
I try to avoid lazy/slothful pawns as they are just not efficient.
Everything else is fairly manageable; I don't try to micro pawns too much so I get social fights on occasion but it's nothing my doctors can't handle. Pyromaniac is a minor one, though if the pawn breaks frequently it can be annoying.
the thing with chem int and chem fasc is that you can explicitly play around them, its not like certain other traits which are unconditionally bad, which is what you really want to have a truly awful experience.
I would love to see someone use a mod or scenario options or Dev Mode and do a run with more than the max negative traits. I forget if Scenario options can allow you to place more than the regular amount of traits. But I know Dev Mode allows you to do this. So every time you sucessful get a new pawn. Pause the game and add like 5+ Negative traits onto the pawn. Probably the same 5 to keep it simple and try to make it the worst possible mix of 5+ etc. lol
May be a mod that can help with this I don't know. But it would be a fun run.
Pyromaniac, Jealous, Greedy, Depressive, Pessimist, Slothful
Those are my top 6 in order of annoyance.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on September 27, 2018, 03:48:57 AM
I started a Randy Savage* game with:
Pyromaniac with Psychically Hypersensitive
Gourmand with Chemical Interest
Wimp with Chemical Fascination
I'm about to win (Or lose. 13 days left on the ship warmup timer) and this is in many ways my best colony so far. It will be my first win on Randy OR Savage.
I did not specifically limit my wealth in any of the cheesy ways, though I did make sure I was only holding what I needed and didn't produce anything extra. I did not burn, melee, or dump anything off map though I did think about it. I DID make sure to gift all the stuff I couldn't use every time a friendly came by.
I also specifically did not limit my pawns, except how I genrally would by considering their skills. Midway through the game I stopped caring if they had "bad" traits and near the end I took a couple pawns with bad traits (chemical stuff and pyro, and a gourmand). I don't know exactly but I think 5 of my 15 pawns are chemical interest/fascination, 2 are pyros and 1 is a gourmand. I don't know about the rest specifically but will write something up when I win (or lose)
I played it pretty standard. I do have 2 kill boxes (One I just kinda made up and it works so well it's going to be my new kill box for a while) as the only ways into the base, and am using traps and turrets in chokepoints and sapper entry points.
I've lost 3 colonists so far, and none of them due to these bad traits. One died while opening the ancient danger. To - of all things - a Thrumbo that wandered into the middle of the firefight. Another died to a grizzly bear that attacked her all alone in the wilderness. The 3rd died in a mechanoid raid. Seems getting your head cut off is fatal in this game. I only lost 2 of them, the thrumbo fatality received a quick hit of ressurector serum that was in the ancient danger.
I'm going to take all the suggestions in this thread and try to come up with an absolute worst makeup for my next playthrough, and if they have a similar low number of hardships I'm going to start allowing any and all recruits that otherwise have reasonable skills into all of my colonies.
Nudist on a cold map?
A least two jealous pawns (they both can't have the "best" bedrooms)
Luciferium needs on map with none (this recently got me.... I banished them after unsuccessfully searching high and low for some)
Scars, bad backs, old colonists who are depressive and of course...pacifists.
I once tried "the commune" where I more or less tried to keep everyone as high as possible without killing them. Took in everyone who wanted to join, rescued everyone who crashed, no questions asked. No armour. Avoided conflict as much as possible. Got to about day 30 and then things started to go seriously wrong.
Nudist only like -3/4 (can't remember), so its not even as bad as a depressive lol
Yeah ... OR... you can make them nude, on a cold map.
So I "won" my campaign. It was my first Savage run so I wasn't really prepared for what the game was going to send at me. As soon as 1 pawn died there was a terrible spiral and in the end, all that was left was a pyromaniac with about 100 mood hits for all the other colonists dying and all the trash lying around.
The last 5 days I just let raiders come in and steal stuff, while a group of siegers just pummeled the place with mortars. 1 day before going a trade caravan intersected with them and that was fun to watch.
That one pyro hopped in the ship as 3 groups of sappers - who didn't need to sap anything because there were holes all over my perimeter - descended on the base. I hope they had a good time ransacking the little that was left.
I still consider this a win for the big idea, as the problems I had had nothing to do with the traits. Even having only a pyro (with the lack of firefighting skill) and several days of mortars raining fire on the colony, I survived okay. As well as could be expected with ANY colonist.
I'm going to try again but on Rough in a harder biome (I had 40 days of growing and lots of trees, and a river) though I don't yet know what traits I'll use.
Quote from: saulysw on October 01, 2018, 10:39:51 PM
A least two jealous pawns (they both can't have the "best" bedrooms)
Actually for that one you just need their rooms to be tied to make them happy.
Assuming we're talking a standard Crash Landed in a non-extreme biome:
Gourmand definitely isn't in a top 6 of the worst traits. Eating extra food shouldn't really make a difference for most colonies, and it does have the upside of +4 cooking. Food binges are really only bad due to losing control of the colonist, which means you really can't use them for direct combat safely. Beyond that, it's fine. There are a lot of worse traits.
Chemical interest and Chemical fascination definitely take the top 2 worst spots, though. I don't think I'd put Pyro as the 3rd worst, though, since it's generally not much worse than Gourmand. Maybe depressive.
The worst pawn I've ever seen had two threshold-lowering traits at once (I think she was Too smart and Volatile but I'm not really sure). She was pretty skilled, but holy crap was she fragile. I had to build the best room specifically for her to keep her in "minor break" range. Still, it was pretty common for her to get two consequent breaks in a day (Catharsis +70 yay!). I think the time she wasted during sad wanders and catatonics was much more than any delays potentially caused by Gourmands or Slothfuls. When she finally died after a raid I had zero regrets.
Quote from: EvadableMoxie on October 02, 2018, 02:27:47 AM
Assuming we're talking a standard Crash Landed in a non-extreme biome:
Gourmand definitely isn't in a top 6 of the worst traits. Eating extra food shouldn't really make a difference for most colonies, and it does have the upside of +4 cooking. Food binges are really only bad due to losing control of the colonist, which means you really can't use them for direct combat safely. Beyond that, it's fine. There are a lot of worse traits.
Chemical interest and Chemical fascination definitely take the top 2 worst spots, though. I don't think I'd put Pyro as the 3rd worst, though, since it's generally not much worse than Gourmand. Maybe depressive.
Chem int / fasc has extremely easy workaround in the early game, where you just burn the paltry amount of drugs raiders drop that you don't need. Late game you can psychite or beer addict them. Then there's no real effects.
Quote from: zizard on October 03, 2018, 04:33:22 PM
Chem int / fasc has extremely easy workaround in the early game, where you just burn the paltry amount of drugs raiders drop that you don't need. Late game you can psychite or beer addict them. Then there's no real effects.
If they (or anybody) is addicted to beer or psychite is that the only drug they'll take on a binge? And if not, does it at least keep them from becoming addicted to that other, harder drug?
Quote from: ruckenhof on October 03, 2018, 02:24:21 PM
The worst pawn I've ever seen had two threshold-lowering traits at once (I think she was Too smart and Volatile but I'm not really sure). She was pretty skilled, but holy crap was she fragile. I had to build the best room specifically for her to keep her in "minor break" range. Still, it was pretty common for her to get two consequent breaks in a day (Catharsis +70 yay!). I think the time she wasted during sad wanders and catatonics was much more than any delays potentially caused by Gourmands or Slothfuls. When she finally died after a raid I had zero regrets.
I would like to note that in the run I did with 6 "worst" (in quotes because I've changed my mind on them and only picked them on a whim) traits, the colonist in the colony who by far had the worst time of things was a new recruit whose only "bad" trait was that she was depressive.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 03, 2018, 07:20:58 PM
If they (or anybody) is addicted to beer or psychite is that the only drug they'll take on a binge? And if not, does it at least keep them from becoming addicted to that other, harder drug?
As long as they have a satisfied addiction they won't do their special binge at all.
Wow break increasing traits sound amazingly strong. They can be controlled to produce catharsis for inspirations.
Wow so that totally sidesteps the dangers of Chem Fascination. If they're otherwise cool just make them pound smokeleaf or beer until addicted and then once a day it every night.
Problem with beer is that expected number of beers to addiction is more than 100.
Quote from: zizard on October 03, 2018, 04:33:22 PM
Chem int / fasc has extremely easy workaround in the early game, where you just burn the paltry amount of drugs raiders drop that you don't need. Late game you can psychite or beer addict them. Then there's no real effects.
Within 100 days as far as I remember. Addicted colonist with alcohol will cause cirrhosis in their liver while psychite addicted got chemical damaged kidney.
How about make them addicted to Ambrosia instead? they cause nothing anyway.
Or try luciferium lol.
Really don't get the people who say "just play around pyro/gourmand/chem pawns"
how?
The random unproductive breaks are bad enough WITHOUT considering the resources used up. Add in the resource cost and it COULD be a real drain. The part that is impossible to play around, though, is the fact that these pawns can break in the middle of combat. Even a drugless base doesn't avoid this, as a pawn can break when a dead raider drops some flake, wander out, and get shot and killed, and (this is the important part) there is NO way to prevent it....in a game that is all about putting in the prep work to mitigate and prevent disaster damage.
Quote from: Limdood on October 04, 2018, 08:36:59 AM
Really don't get the people who say "just play around pyro/gourmand/chem pawns"
how?
The random unproductive breaks are bad enough WITHOUT considering the resources used up. Add in the resource cost and it COULD be a real drain. The part that is impossible to play around, though, is the fact that these pawns can break in the middle of combat. Even a drugless base doesn't avoid this, as a pawn can break when a dead raider drops some flake, wander out, and get shot and killed, and (this is the important part) there is NO way to prevent it....in a game that is all about putting in the prep work to mitigate and prevent disaster damage.
The big thing is, continuing on when that dumbass goes out and dies IS playing around it. Building with stone to frustrate a pyro IS playing around it. Just making more food IS playing around it. And it's totally possible. As I said I just won a game on Randy Savage and while it's true that only 1 of my 15 colonists got out on the ship, that guy was a pyro and lived alone in the colony for 5 days. Before that raid, I had 5 people with chemical interest or fascination and 2 or 3 of them were addicted to something. I had 2 gourmands, a lazy, and 2 incapable of violence.
And the ONLY one that CONSITENTLY caused trouble was the depressive.
Quote from: Limdood on October 04, 2018, 08:36:59 AM
Really don't get the people who say "just play around pyro/gourmand/chem pawns"
how?
The random unproductive breaks are bad enough WITHOUT considering the resources used up. Add in the resource cost and it COULD be a real drain. The part that is impossible to play around, though, is the fact that these pawns can break in the middle of combat. Even a drugless base doesn't avoid this, as a pawn can break when a dead raider drops some flake, wander out, and get shot and killed, and (this is the important part) there is NO way to prevent it....in a game that is all about putting in the prep work to mitigate and prevent disaster damage.
we are asking the question of which traits are the worst for win%, so traits that are consistently bad are generally stronger than conditionally bad traits
Incidentally, playing on savage is like having a free optimist + hardworker on all colonist, you're not getting the full misery experience
Quote from: bbqftw on October 04, 2018, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: Limdood on October 04, 2018, 08:36:59 AM
Really don't get the people who say "just play around pyro/gourmand/chem pawns"
how?
The random unproductive breaks are bad enough WITHOUT considering the resources used up. Add in the resource cost and it COULD be a real drain. The part that is impossible to play around, though, is the fact that these pawns can break in the middle of combat. Even a drugless base doesn't avoid this, as a pawn can break when a dead raider drops some flake, wander out, and get shot and killed, and (this is the important part) there is NO way to prevent it....in a game that is all about putting in the prep work to mitigate and prevent disaster damage.
we are asking the question of which traits are the worst for win%, so traits that are consistently bad are generally stronger than conditionally bad traits
Incidentally, playing on savage is like having a free optimist + hardworker on all colonist, you're not getting the full misery experience
Hey nice assumptions there.
btw, "consistently bad?" all of the mood penalty colonists are conditional...they're not broken all the time. Ditto with traits that cause more fights. In fact, the ONLY negative traits that can be considered not conditional are the work speed penalties. Every other trait is only bad sometimes....i tend to look poorly on ones that CAN kill with no counterplay besides "don't accept them" or "hope they don't break at an inopportune time"
Quote from: khun_poo on October 04, 2018, 04:41:43 AM
Within 100 days as far as I remember. Addicted colonist with alcohol will cause cirrhosis in their liver while psychite addicted got chemical damaged kidney.
How about make them addicted to Ambrosia instead? they cause nothing anyway.
Or try luciferium lol.
No the damage is caused by tolerance, not addiction. Psychite can be maintained without increasing tolerance. Sucks that these kinds of discussions are always remedial game mechanics lessons.
Quote from: Limdood on October 04, 2018, 04:11:49 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on October 04, 2018, 03:53:55 PM
Quote from: Limdood on October 04, 2018, 08:36:59 AM
Really don't get the people who say "just play around pyro/gourmand/chem pawns"
how?
The random unproductive breaks are bad enough WITHOUT considering the resources used up. Add in the resource cost and it COULD be a real drain. The part that is impossible to play around, though, is the fact that these pawns can break in the middle of combat. Even a drugless base doesn't avoid this, as a pawn can break when a dead raider drops some flake, wander out, and get shot and killed, and (this is the important part) there is NO way to prevent it....in a game that is all about putting in the prep work to mitigate and prevent disaster damage.
we are asking the question of which traits are the worst for win%, so traits that are consistently bad are generally stronger than conditionally bad traits
Incidentally, playing on savage is like having a free optimist + hardworker on all colonist, you're not getting the full misery experience
Hey nice assumptions there.
btw, "consistently bad?" all of the mood penalty colonists are conditional...they're not broken all the time. Ditto with traits that cause more fights. In fact, the ONLY negative traits that can be considered not conditional are the work speed penalties. Every other trait is only bad sometimes....i tend to look poorly on ones that CAN kill with no counterplay besides "don't accept them" or "hope they don't break at an inopportune time"
chem int break is ~50 day mtth last time I check and that is with eligible drugs on map, depressive under a lot of game states is going to put you at mental break or bump you up severity tier far more than once every 50 days.
Technically workspeed also conditional since you can just make them haul all day. Negative workspeed also beneficial for crafters under some situations too
Quote from: bbqftw on October 04, 2018, 03:53:55 PM
Incidentally, playing on savage is like having a free optimist + hardworker on all colonist, you're not getting the full misery experience
I played on Savage because the test would be invalid on Merciless. I refuse to go through all the garbage required to just survive in that mode, so all colonies are doomed to perish. In that case, all traits could be considered equal as they all would lead to failure.
Quote from: 5thHorseman on October 04, 2018, 08:25:19 PM
Quote from: bbqftw on October 04, 2018, 03:53:55 PM
Incidentally, playing on savage is like having a free optimist + hardworker on all colonist, you're not getting the full misery experience
I played on Savage because the test would be invalid on Merciless. I refuse to go through all the garbage required to just survive in that mode, so all colonies are doomed to perish. In that case, all traits could be considered equal as they all would lead to failure.
On the contrary, if we're going to rank traits in any reasonable capacity there must be some objective reasoning that prefers some to others. Broadly speaking, bad traits do worse under optimal play than less bad traits.
If you're willing to toss the optimal play requirement then you wind up with some arbitrary/preference based picks, which is what has happened in this thread to a degree. It's fine to prefer one trait to another for whatever reason, but it's an ineffective way to organize thought around which traits are actually the worst and why.
It is significantly easier to work around things like chem int/fascination than depressive, which is going to foist breaks on you by force in many circumstances on the highest difficulty, sometimes beyond player control. It's a really bad trait and a serious candidate for the worst trait outright. Gourmand and pyro can screw naked brutality starts, but depressive screws that too AND is significantly worse for pawn net contribution throughout a colony's existence. Slow pawns are also significantly worse than chemical fascination, etc.
Quote from: TheMeInTeam on October 05, 2018, 04:07:06 PM
It is significantly easier to work around things like chem int/fascination than depressive, which is going to foist breaks on you by force in many circumstances on the highest difficulty, sometimes beyond player control. It's a really bad trait and a serious candidate for the worst trait outright. Gourmand and pyro can screw naked brutality starts, but depressive screws that too AND is significantly worse for pawn net contribution throughout a colony's existence. Slow pawns are also significantly worse than chemical fascination, etc.
Strange that I somehow came to that conclusion even though I didn't play merciless.
It's magnified though. Pessimist might make my top 6 for example, while other than extremely early pyro wouldn't...in fact pyros are mood-positive if you give them some random raider molotov.
I don't think it's possible to define worst 6, even if a difficulty level and playstyle is specified.
In an "optimal" run, only traits that cumulatively add up to total colony loss, or colony death spiral, really matter. Minor setbacks can be recovered from as if they didn't happen. Game-ending traits will totally depend on factors like biome, map, difficulty level, global events, colony skill composition, tech level, etc. Gourmand is trivial to tolerate on temperate, permanent summer. On early ice sheet, or during a pre-hydroponics toxic fallout, then lol. Now that we have food assignments, I feel depressive could be largely managed with lavish meals, but only if you have the food and a good cook. Any negative trait can be tolerated, if it applies to your only doctor. Also, player preference is huge; even the most hardcore will have pet peeves. I refuse pyros just because one killed my colony once. Trait significance is different for every context and changes over time.
Can we agree that, in all contexts, it's ideal to refuse pawns with a bad trait balance, and discard the ones you have at the earliest opportunity? Especially at low populations, when population intent is sending you lots of free recruits to choose from. Correct me if I'm wrong, but traits do not affect pawn value at all. A volatile abrasive is worth the same as a fast-walking optimist.
Whenever I recruit a new pawn, I look to see if there's an existing, equivalently-skilled pawn with bad traits that I can get rid of.
Some traits like beautiful / ugly have very large market value modifiers.
QuoteWhenever I recruit a new pawn, I look to see if there's an existing, equivalently-skilled pawn with bad traits that I can get rid of.
Yep. This seems to be what the game pushes you to do.
Quote from: bbqftw on October 06, 2018, 02:58:40 PM
Yep. This seems to be what the game pushes you to do.
Undesirable pawns being ostracized isn't unrealistic, though the player being an omniscient and all-powerful arbiter is.
Is there a known formula for base pawn value?Looked into the code to see
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=46067.0