Being unable to do jobs sucks...and frankly, makes no sense in 99% of cases.
Incapable of hauling? Picking up an object and carrying it is too impossible for someone to comprehend? Is that someone even human or is he just a inert blob of flesh?
I can understand getting a hefty penalty to growth (opposite of passion), a max limit, or even completely preventing skill increase - but being completely unable to do it? Even when your life is on the line?
That's just stupid. Not to mention it makes some professions more then useless.
Yes, it does suck that some colonists can't do certain things, but that's part of the challenge of RimWorld. You are responsible for making sure that all jobs are done, and sometimes you've got to re-arrange your colonists priorities to account for that.
Alternatively, you can randomize until you get colonists capable of doing everything, use a mod for creating colonists, such as the Colonist Creation Mod (CCM), or only buying slaves that can do everything.
In short, there are methods built into the game to help with combat colonists who are incapable of doing certain tasks.
And having a skill just be fixed at a minimum also presents a organizational challenge, without it being stupid.
I MA using the CCM already, but that is beside the point.
I've kind of enjoyed the situations I've ended up with
my base having fire raging in it and my only colonist not incapacitated being afraid of fire
or the time when right after really tough fight my near death survivors get knocked out by single mad boomrat and I am left with a pacificst who's only standing cause he wasn't part of the previous fight
(he didn't save the day. at all.)
and I'm still wanting to try out how I'd fare with that kinda 3 nobles scenario
I saw someone mention =P
it's just me I guess but I really like things more when they're little stupid
Sometimes it's there because they're tasks that people literally can't do, such as firefighting. If you have an extreme fear of fire you can't go beat it out.
I think the other ones are tasks that people simply refuse to do. Someone who was raised as a lord on a medieval world simply refuses to do menial work. It's not that they can't haul (in fact they do, while hunting) it's that they think it's beneath them to haul rocks back in forth all day.
Realistically, that is historically, forcing certain people to do tasks that they would otherwise refuse to do can lead to mental breakdowns. There are many examples in history of people that were born to rich or noble families that go crazy rather than "stoop" to doing menial labour when they lose their status.
Likewise there have been many pacifists in history who have died rather than fight back against those threatening their lives.
Finally, I think having disabled tasks is fun. It forces you to use people and tactics in ways you wouldn't normally conciser, not to mention makes characters a lot more memorable and interesting. Usually hunting or something else that's useful is still available. For example, I've started with 2 empaths before. I had to invest in turrets and other defensive measures far earlier than I normally would because I really couldn't rely on having enough firepower from just using my colonists. It was actually a very fun start because I had to have a very different focus and different priorities than normal.
As De1ta said, you can just keep randomizing until you get 3 starting colonists with every skill available, and if you get prisoners with disabled skills you can always sell them to a slave trader then use the silver to buy a different colonist from the same slave trader.
That or you can either look for a mod or make a mod that changes disabled tasks so that they just get forced to 0 skill, or maybe a mod that just removes or replaces all the characters with disabled tasks so you don't have to deal with them.
Agreed, it's about managing somehow. Yet there are...odd ones.
A space marine unable to shoot, a researcher with major research passion unable to research, and yeah, everyone should be able to do basic jobs such as cunt platting or cleaning, though I do agree that growing, researching, mining, constructing, crafting (etc, etc...) are more complex jobs not everyone can do.
About hauling? In my opinion it's in the middle. No, you don't need brain but muscle to do it, something not everyone has. Or at least not as much.
But a simple movement speed penalty would be fine too I guess.
Anyway, it could be (and most likely 'will be') better, but it's pretty fun as it is.
Quote from: Shinzy on July 25, 2014, 04:32:07 PM
and I'm still wanting to try out how I'd fare with that kinda 3 nobles scenario
I saw someone mention =P
it's just me I guess but I really like things more when they're little stupid
Haha, 3x Nobles is easier than it looks, and easier imo than some regular games due to the fact Social skill can be leveraged so well, and they can still do all the essentials (Hunt for Food/Construct/Research).
Social is one of those skills hard to level up due to inconsistent training opportunities. Construction, Research, Crafting, Growing, Cooking can all be leveled to 20 pretty fast due to infinite work to train them with. Social has... talking with prisoners (infrequent) and possibly other colonists.
Now if I had 3x Glitterworld Empaths, that would be pretty deadly since they cannot fight. Would have to prioritize trading and goodwill to intercept incoming pirate raids... and hope the right types of traders come by to let get you enough cash to do so.
Quote from: Bog on July 25, 2014, 04:42:14 PM
I think the other ones are tasks that people simply refuse to do. Someone who was raised as a lord on a medieval world simply refuses to do menial work. It's not that they can't haul (in fact they do, while hunting) it's that they think it's beneath them to haul rocks back in forth all day.
Then they can go die in a fire.
SOME make sense (like being deathly afraid of fire). Others don't.
"I'm starving, but I'm too much of a noble to lower myself to hunt or cut plants or cook!!!"
Quote
Realistically, that is historically, forcing certain people to do tasks that they would otherwise refuse to do can lead to mental breakdowns. There are many examples in history of people that were born to rich or noble families that go crazy rather than "stoop" to doing menial labour when they lose their status.
Many examples? Such as?
Let them loose their minds then.
Quote
Likewise there have been many pacifists in history who have died rather than fight back against those threatening their lives.
That one also kinda makes sense. The rest don't.
Speaking of which, pacifist being willing to risk their lives makes sense...BUT, as part of a colony, their refusal to fight risks OTHER peoples lives. And that other people wont' be pleased.
Come to think about it, inter-colonist friction...that might be a great gameplay element. Colonists that endanger the colony due to their incompetence, cowardice or refusal to follow orders and pull their weight, may find themselves hated by other colonists and exiled.
That's what we need. The ability to exile any colonist
Quote from: TrashMan on July 25, 2014, 05:46:56 PMQuote
Realistically, that is historically, forcing certain people to do tasks that they would otherwise refuse to do can lead to mental breakdowns. There are many examples in history of people that were born to rich or noble families that go crazy rather than "stoop" to doing menial labour when they lose their status.
Many examples? Such as?
23,000 people committed suicide when the stock markets crashed in 1929. Many more lived out their last days barely able to function or even in insane asylums. Some people value their money, possessions and status more than their lives.
Quote from: TrashMan on July 25, 2014, 05:46:56 PM
Speaking of which, pacifist being willing to risk their lives makes sense...BUT, as part of a colony, their refusal to fight risks OTHER peoples lives. And that other people wont' be pleased.
Come to think about it, inter-colonist friction...that might be a great gameplay element. Colonists that endanger the colony due to their incompetence, cowardice or refusal to follow orders and pull their weight, may find themselves hated by other colonists and exiled.
That's what we need. The ability to exile any colonist
You can. Just draft them and make them stand in a corner of the map very far from your base. They'll eventually die. :P
You can also just use them as cannon fodder. Empaths make great distractions so that your real troops don't die so quick in combat. ;)
I agree on the Hauling part for 99% of cases where you can't haul items
Nobles really will rather starve to death then do any real work IRL hence why most are gone now.
But I do rather like that there are some jobs that people are simply unable to do RIGHT.
You should be able to draft all people to do any job, but their mood is what is affected when they do the jobs.
An Empath who shoots a gun will GO INSANNNNENENEN thus meaning it'd be better if they never did that job. But you should be able to force them to do it to your own detriment.
In most cases it's not that they're technically incapable, it's that they're unwilling due to their personality, e.g. a pacifist refuse violence, a high-born refuse physical labor, etc.
I like it. It creates more diversity.
Due to random gen sometimes this does result in crazy combos. I've had vat grown soldier -> lordling so they could do nothing but shoot (social & research disabled from soldier, manual/skilled labor disabled by lordling).
HOWEVER hot damn could he shoot. It's just one of the "joys" of a random game. If someone is really dead weight then think of them as a prime candidate for a charge of the light brigade or operation "draw mechanoid fire while we shoot the AI core".
You want examples? I know 2, one of my friend's great grandmother committed suicide because she was stripped of noble status (and ofc everything valuable), the thought of being but a commoner and working didn't work for him.
And my other friend's (yeah, I know it sounds kinda fishy child "arguement"...)
great, great grandfather(?) committed suicide after he lost the his castle gambling.
Quote from: Bog on July 25, 2014, 06:40:09 PM
23,000 people committed suicide when the stock markets crashed in 1929. Many more lived out their last days barely able to function or even in insane asylums. Some people value their money, possessions and status more than their lives.
Erm...no.
Extreeme depression and suicidal tendencies do not a good example make of people refusing to do simple work that will keep them alive.
Quote
Quote from: TrashMan on July 25, 2014, 05:46:56 PM
Speaking of which, pacifist being willing to risk their lives makes sense...BUT, as part of a colony, their refusal to fight risks OTHER peoples lives. And that other people wont' be pleased.
Come to think about it, inter-colonist friction...that might be a great gameplay element. Colonists that endanger the colony due to their incompetence, cowardice or refusal to follow orders and pull their weight, may find themselves hated by other colonists and exiled.
That's what we need. The ability to exile any colonist
You can. Just draft them and make them stand in a corner of the map very far from your base. They'll eventually die. :P
You can also just use them as cannon fodder. Empaths make great distractions so that your real troops don't die so quick in combat. ;)
Not the same as the other colonist kicking someone out.
You cannot replace an actual element of gemeplay mechanic with a work-around.
Quote from: BetaSpectre on July 25, 2014, 06:44:19 PM
Nobles really will rather starve to death then do any real work IRL hence why most are gone now.
This is sarcasm, right?
I wonder if any one of you guys has even been really hungry? I mean the pure hunger you experience when you haven't eaten anything for 2-3 days.
Trust me, you'd do ANYTHING then just to get something to eat. You'd eat the most horrific food, food you normally wouldn't even consider. You'd eat s***, bugs or whatever.
Dying from hanger is horribly slow and painful. Also, survival instinct.
Quote from: TrashMan on July 26, 2014, 12:12:58 PM
Quote from: BetaSpectre on July 25, 2014, 06:44:19 PM
Nobles really will rather starve to death then do any real work IRL hence why most are gone now.
This is sarcasm, right?
I wonder if any one of you guys has even been really hungry? I mean the pure hunger you experience when you haven't eaten anything for 2-3 days.
Trust me, you'd do ANYTHING then just to get something to eat. You'd eat the most horrific food, food you normally wouldn't even consider. You'd eat s***, bugs or whatever.
Dying from hanger is horribly slow and painful. Also, survival instinct.
Yeah the statement should be something more in the lines of
"Nobles really will rather eat paste from the dispenser than cook"
=P
Perhaps the colonists who don't want to do certain jobs could be forced to, but they would do it with level 0 effectivity and get a severe unhappy thought (-25 "Had to something I absolutely despise")? People refusing certain jobs is fun most of the time, but then there are the cases when you have 7 colonists and only one of them can haul and clean.
Quote from: Rahjital on July 26, 2014, 03:22:28 PM
Perhaps the colonists who don't want to do certain jobs could be forced to, but they would do it with level 0 effectivity and get a severe unhappy thought (-25 "Had to something I absolutely despise")? People refusing certain jobs is fun most of the time, but then there are the cases when you have 7 colonists and only one of them can haul and clean.
Or when the whole colony's burning all around, most of the other colonists are incapped but the one in perfect health refuses put out the fire and starts eating on a burning table.
He died by the way, I executed him. Gotta love playing god. (｡◕‿‿◕｡)
Quote from: Cyst on July 27, 2014, 07:30:16 AM
Or when the whole colony's burning all around, most of the other colonists are incapped but the one in perfect health refuses put out the fire and starts eating on a burning table.
He died by the way, I executed him. Gotta love playing god. (｡◕‿‿◕｡)
Ah, but you could have forced him to fight the fire by drafting him and sending him near it... poor colonist, he didn't have to die :'(
Quote from: Cyst on July 27, 2014, 07:30:16 AM
Quote from: Rahjital on July 26, 2014, 03:22:28 PM
Perhaps the colonists who don't want to do certain jobs could be forced to, but they would do it with level 0 effectivity and get a severe unhappy thought (-25 "Had to something I absolutely despise")? People refusing certain jobs is fun most of the time, but then there are the cases when you have 7 colonists and only one of them can haul and clean.
Or when the whole colony's burning all around, most of the other colonists are incapped but the one in perfect health refuses put out the fire and starts eating on a burning table.
He died by the way, I executed him. Gotta love playing god. (｡◕‿‿◕｡)
ohh makes me wish the colonists afraid of fire would
really be afraid of itlike flip out and panic sort of "THeeeRee's a fire on the taaableeee!! somebodytakeitouuutt nooooooooooow ohshitohshitoshit!"
I had colonist Johnson (McClane once who was afraid of fire and I got attacked by tribals right after being sieged. everyone else were already mad and imprisoned, tribals start to whack the walls of my buildings and let the prisoners free
but Johnson had a shotgun, he killed half of the tribals on his own cause they were more focused on trashing my buildings
so I could get them one on one in most cases
ofc I started taking screenies of him fighting the tribal in the "diner" after I thought
I could actually survive this.. but um.. mental break!
There's no happy endings in RimWorld
only occasional badassery
oh and he was afraid of fire, to link any of this to be on topic :-[
and and I had a burning table too
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Quote from: Shinzy on July 28, 2014, 02:51:07 AM
There's no happy endings in RimWorld
only occasional badassery
Now that's something quote-worthy!
Quote from: Rahjital on July 27, 2014, 05:56:19 PM
Ah, but you could have forced him to fight the fire by drafting him and sending him near it... poor colonist, he didn't have to die :'(
Nah, as I said the now ex-colonist refused to put out the fire, he was unable to do it and it cost the colony a fortune. He had to go, for the rest of the colony. (｡◕‿‿◕｡)
Most of the backstories provide disadvantages. Some are totally without function and act only as flavor. This is meant to be a difficult game. You can reroll any number of times you want without CCM and pick and choose exactly what you want with CCM.
If you want to start in the easiest possible way, generate 5 characters with backstory: Shelter Child / Spaceship Salesman, and you can make each colonist an expert in 3-4 different skills. Since Melee, Medicine, and Artistic are all totally useless, and Social is half useless, there are only 7 important skils to cultivate.
If you don't want to start in the easiest possible way, then what's the gripe here, exactly?
Sanity. Logic.
And dislike of "artificial" difficulty.
I think things will get even more strange when personal traits are incorporated to the game as well. I kind of like the random things that certain people can't do. I like to trying to figure out the backstory of the colonist with the random traits they receive. Going as far as deciding that someone who can't haul must only have one arm.
i started a random game and got 3 guys who would not do any manual labour. So they would not build, would not haul and errr yeah... so they all quit from starvation.
tbh i agree that these traits are a waste of time unless they give massive boosts in other areas which these guys did not have
Quote from: BetaSpectre on July 25, 2014, 06:44:19 PM
I agree on the Hauling part for 99% of cases where you can't haul items
Nobles really will rather starve to death then do any real work IRL hence why most are gone now.
But I do rather like that there are some jobs that people are simply unable to do RIGHT.
You should be able to draft all people to do any job, but their mood is what is affected when they do the jobs.
An Empath who shoots a gun will GO INSANNNNENENEN thus meaning it'd be better if they never did that job. But you should be able to force them to do it to your own detriment.
Funny cause my empathy had a mental breakdown and beat the crap out of my lv 20 hunter. the hunter had half health and only hit 1/4 times while the empathy hit every time
When's the last time you saw a guy suffer a mental breakdown and only one cop is needed to restrain him? Dude. Send the whole crew.
There is such a thing is being so woefully incompetent or scared or insecure that a person can refuse to do much of ANY job. That's why NEETs exist!
Quote from: bobucles on August 08, 2014, 06:57:29 AM
There is such a thing is being so woefully incompetent or scared or insecure that a person can refuse to do much of ANY job. That's why NEETs exist!
Are you saying that NEETs are nobles?!
Well I'm not one to brag, but I haven't worked a paid job in over a dozen years. There must be SOMETHING noble about it!