Long time lurker on the forums, I had to make an account here just to say how much I love combat in Alpha 6. Reminds me a lot of DnD, and there are so many emergent stories that can come out of it (such as having to "euthanize" someone who lost a leg). I feel like it is a significant departure from the long, drawn out fights where everyone would unrealistically soak up 4-6 bullets, and I totally welcome that. Whether this was the intended outcome of this system or not, great job Tynan.
I must agree. I like having tactics play more of a role. Before it was get in better cover to soak more shots, now its use better cover or get capped in 1 or 2 shot(s). A few things may need some tweaking though, I've had a few raiders run away after getting shot in the head. I don't expect every headshot to be an instant kill but getting my jaw blown off is probably going to floor me at least, probably even knock me unconscious.
Agreed, the combat is a whole new game, and it's great.
I hate it with a passion. Its just turning up the RNG to a ridiculous degree - the same combat can go either way with a few lucky shots... Colonists surviving the fight but in a complete "useless" state because of crippling effects, or even dying because they cant be treated sufficiently. For me, this alpha version is by far the worst. Its not beyond salvage, but it lacks the stuff that makes it fun to play.
I have a colonist that is in perpetual pain because he hurt/scared his left thumb somehow in the landing (he was in the original 3) and either I didnt treat him well enough or too late (new system and all that). It basically means he has 3% permanent HP loss, and is a cripple when it comes to working. Because of a thumb that will never heal.
And dont come at me with "its more realistic this way" - it isnt. I had a guy getting a cracked jaw from a Science-damned squirrel. A squirrel cracking a jaw? Come on! Also, even if its more realistic when it comes to gunshots: realistic isnt always more fun.
TBH, the wounding system desperately needs help. Most severe wounds should heal out (albeit very slowly) over time, or there should be a replacement for limbs (cybertronics/augmetics/transplants).
Pain should go away after a fight and not persist if a body part is scarred up. The reason is that scar tissue isnt really able to feel pain. It should just be called "permanent damage" - because thats what it is.
There also should be a limit on what certains weapons can do: squirrels that crack your jaw or stones that shoot off your legs are neither fun nor realistic - just plain dumb. If a squirrel downs a man (however that should happen), he should die of gangrene later on or a savaged jugular (maybe after he went unconscious?).
Getting someone permanently injured really isnt helping the game. Most players will just give them a oneway trip to the slave trader, and replace it with a fresh slave from the very same trader (its what many DF and Gnomoria players do - cull the injured, get new recruits).
Quote from: Merry76 on August 14, 2014, 02:02:27 PM
I hate it with a passion. Its just turning up the RNG to a ridiculous degree - the same combat can go either way with a few lucky shots... Colonists surviving the fight but in a complete "useless" state because of crippling effects, or even dying because they cant be treated sufficiently. For me, this alpha version is by far the worst. Its not beyond salvage, but it lacks the stuff that makes it fun to play.
I have a colonist that is in perpetual pain because he hurt/scared his left thumb somehow in the landing (he was in the original 3) and either I didnt treat him well enough or too late (new system and all that). It basically means he has 3% permanent HP loss, and is a cripple when it comes to working. Because of a thumb that will never heal.
And dont come at me with "its more realistic this way" - it isnt. I had a guy getting a cracked jaw from a Science-damned squirrel. A squirrel cracking a jaw? Come on! Also, even if its more realistic when it comes to gunshots: realistic isnt always more fun.
TBH, the wounding system desperately needs help. Most severe wounds should heal out (albeit very slowly) over time, or there should be a replacement for limbs (cybertronics/augmetics/transplants).
Pain should go away after a fight and not persist if a body part is scarred up. The reason is that scar tissue isnt really able to feel pain. It should just be called "permanent damage" - because thats what it is.
There also should be a limit on what certains weapons can do: squirrels that crack your jaw or stones that shoot off your legs are neither fun nor realistic - just plain dumb. If a squirrel downs a man (however that should happen), he should die of gangrene later on or a savaged jugular (maybe after he went unconscious?).
Getting someone permanently injured really isnt helping the game. Most players will just give them a oneway trip to the slave trader, and replace it with a fresh slave from the very same trader (its what many DF and Gnomoria players do - cull the injured, get new recruits).
Good news for you: Prosthetic limbs/restorative surgeries have already been confirmed for Alpha 7.
You gotta remember this is an Alpha, and you are an alpha tester. The goal here isn't to provide you with a fun experience, it's to test and implement game play systems. It only seems harsh and unforgiving because the rest of it hasn't been implemented yet. It's also the first iteration of the system and obviously needs a little tweaking. (I have a colonist who is "seriously impaired" because he has a squirrel scratch scar on his pinky finger lol. His stats are all fine though and he doesn't suffer any negatives to working or moving, but he has a constant 3% pain.) Just have fun with it Lol, it will be ironed out, balanced, and added on to in due time.
Quote from: Merry76 on August 14, 2014, 02:02:27 PM
I hate it with a passion. Its just turning up the RNG to a ridiculous degree...
I was afraid of that. I just watched a letsplay video of Alpha 6. In the video a raider gets shot and his.. heart is nicked. He lives. Yeah, like, no big deal. I'm pretty sure if a heart gets grazed by a bullet, you'll die in a minute, with first-aid or not. Currently the system not only doesn't reflect the seriousness of certain injuries, but also the delivered damage amount and types are distributed seemingly randomly. If it's not random, I'd like to know the logic, or at least get a picture of the distant future end goal when it comes to this matter. Will the injuries inflicted by small critters be limited to bites and scratches (puncture wounds and lacerations)? Or should a squirrel be able to crush a man's spine and heart with one swipe, and the man would survive such injuries?
Quite frankly, I was caught off-guard with the detailed anatomy and medical system. It's both disconcerting but also distantly positive. The concern is that this means we're at the start of a lengthy refinement process, and we're the guinea pigs. Right now I have no guarantees if the distant future end result will please me when it comes to this matter. I'm inclined to put RimWorld away for a long time to come because I want to protect myself from the aggravation of blatant, constant and unentertaining irrationality I'd be forced to deal with for (what I suspect to be is) a long time. I emphasize the word 'unentertaining'. Sure, there is certain humor in seeing a small animal bust a colonist's jaw (for example), but the fun is shortlived. When it happens the second time, it's just annoying, and eventually it'll just... drive me... to outsource combat and hunting... to turrets... or similarly safer methods... that... don't involve risking damage to vital organs... Also, miniguns are... probably pretty overpowered now...
Anyway, I'm upset, or at least try to be. I'm not having fun. I swear.
No one likes crippled colonists with no hope of ever being cured. Now, if there were technologies that required lenghty research, and you'd have the HOPE of eventually restoring colonists to full functionality, or even further, within the same playthrough, that'd be great. But we don't have that hope now. So, I'm off RimWorld. I'm shielding myself. You've been a nice drug and a distraction so far but this stage is just meh, even though I was pretty ecstatic and amazed while reading through the list of updates. Even if Alpha 7 rescues this current situation, it doesn't matter right now. A month off, a year off, doesn't make a difference to me. I'll stick with letsplays at most. Or Alpha 5... Uhh, I mean, I'm quitting.
I feel like there should be an option to turn this on or not.
Its a great damage system but its not for all of us.
I personally adore the new system, it adds some actual meaning to combat besides "Sponge up bullets, be fully healed two days later". The point of the game is to generate stories, not to win every time.
Quote from: DeltaV on August 14, 2014, 06:09:26 PM
I personally adore the new system, it adds some actual meaning to combat besides "Sponge up bullets, be fully healed two days later". The point of the game is to generate stories, not to win every time.
^ This!
One of my colonists has neverending headache now due to old gunshot in the face it's really cool =P
But I've always enjoyed the 'iron man' and 'hardcore' mode sort of stuffs myself even if it's unfair
they usually end up in blaze of glory (or slipping on a soap and hitting your head on the bathtub)
Most of the time there's lot of great stuff happening before you end up dead
and really wanna see what happens on the next go =P
But options are the best
being allowed to tailor the experience to fit your own tastes like Bspectre there says would be nice
Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 14, 2014, 05:38:01 PM
-snip-
Step 1: New feature released that still needs some balancing/tweaking.
Step 2: Freak out over it and quit.
Step 3: Profit?
Quote from: Shinzy on August 14, 2014, 06:43:50 PM
Quote from: DeltaV on August 14, 2014, 06:09:26 PM
I personally adore the new system, it adds some actual meaning to combat besides "Sponge up bullets, be fully healed two days later". The point of the game is to generate stories, not to win every time.
^This.
^^Double-this.
Also, I don't get where everyone is coming up with idea that it's unfairly brutal and random. I had a guy get chased back to the colony being attacked by two squirrels and sure when he got back he was in a lot of pain, covered in scratches/bites, and his work/movement efficiency was down by half. But, after setting a Medical bed, Prioritizing him to heal on it, then ordering him to rest until fully healed, that all went away except for a scratch scar on his finger and his work/movement is back to normal. Another colonist was shot 4 times by an auto turret by accident, 2 in the leg, one in the chest and 1 in the arm. He also recovered pretty much to full capacity. I mean, yeah some guys catch one in the head and die, but that's life. Honestly it's not that different from Alpha 5 in that respect, I've had guys 1 or 2 shot incapped by a competent sniper even before this damage update. If anything, it puts things back in the colonists favor by making the raiders less durable.
Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 14, 2014, 04:01:31 PM
You gotta remember this is an Alpha, and you are an alpha tester. The goal here isn't to provide you with a fun experience, it's to test and implement game play systems.
That's not entirely true. Yes the point in an Alpha is feature implementation and building the core backend to extend with more content once feature complete is achieved but, From what I've seen with the development of this game Ludeon tries to make each stage as enjoyable as possible. That being said, features shouldn't be assumed complete or perfect when we get them, just remember that what you get in an alpha is a skeleton of what the game can and will be.
There's so much that I like about this new alpha that I can look passed the problems with the new combat system. Those are stated pretty well in this thread elsewhere so I won't rehash it. I like having a world, where I can kind of pick my base location, at least the biome and how mountainous it is. I like that I don't start with a wave of 1 enemy then suddenly there's 20, the storyteller seems to ramp up a lot more gradually. I like how easy it is to capture enemies now, although they will likely have injuries.
I don't want to be one of those fan-boys that quickly disregards anyone who has a negative opinion on a game I like. Complaints are valid, and in the end they'll make a better game. Give the system a few updates, with all of our feedback (positive AND negative) and it'll shine.
Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 14, 2014, 07:06:20 PM
Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 14, 2014, 05:38:01 PM
-snip-
Step 1: New feature released that still needs some balancing/tweaking.
Step 2: Freak out over it and quit.
Step 3: Profit?
Quote from: Shinzy on August 14, 2014, 06:43:50 PM
Quote from: DeltaV on August 14, 2014, 06:09:26 PM
I personally adore the new system, it adds some actual meaning to combat besides "Sponge up bullets, be fully healed two days later". The point of the game is to generate stories, not to win every time.
^This.
^^Double-this.
^^^Triple-this.
BINGO!
All joking aside, I like the system, it adds to the game. All the panicking going on about this system is all part of the process, the system is new and juvenile, everything in a game requires modifying and fine tuning to perfect it for the grander audience, Tynan & Co will do so until they're happy with the system.
Quote from: Neurotoxin on August 14, 2014, 07:30:03 PM
I don't want to be one of those fan-boys that quickly disregards anyone who has a negative opinion on a game I like. Complaints are valid, and in the end they'll make a better game. Give the system a few updates, with all of our feedback (positive AND negative) and it'll shine.
^ This, Those at Ludeon Studios are brilliant at what they do, Just give them some time and you'll be glad you did.
I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to make a mod that nerfs the crippling effects currently in the game. Those who don't like the bodypart / serious injury bits could easily bypass them.
EDIT - Until such a mod exists, the save game editor (http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=5346.0) may be useful.
I'm in a love/ hate relationship with it.
I think the new system will be perfect once I'm able to craft some prosthetic limbs for the crippled folk. Seeing a perfectly fine colonist lying in bed all day, with nothing I can do about it, is sort of disheartening. And I certainly don't want to kill the guy off, or sell him to slavery, I'm not some cold hearted psychopath ya know.
And I'd probably tone down the M-24s a little bit. Had a large-ish raider group with a couple M24s come in and they ended up headshoting (and killing) 3 colonist as my one M24 guy wasn't able to counter them quickly enough, and they had a wall of raiders with other weapons blocking them, so no bum-rush was possible. Also maybe the ability to create medicine somehow would be nice.
Quote from: christhekiller on August 14, 2014, 08:14:14 PM
I'm in a love/ hate relationship with it.
I think the new system will be perfect once I'm able to craft some prosthetic limbs for the crippled folk. Seeing a perfectly fine colonist lying in bed all day, with nothing I can do about it, is sort of disheartening. And I certainly don't want to kill the guy off, or sell him to slavery, I'm not some cold hearted psychopath ya know.
And I'd probably tone down the M-24s a little bit. Had a large-ish raider group with a couple M24s come in and they ended up headshoting (and killing) 3 colonist as my one M24 guy wasn't able to counter them quickly enough, and they had a wall of raiders with other weapons blocking them, so no bum-rush was possible. Also maybe the ability to create medicine somehow would be nice.
I personally like to imagine that my legless colonists realize that they're just holding everyone back and decide to allow the others to 'pull the plug', so to speak. Makes it just a bit less morbid.
As far as the M24s go, I've found that in this update more than any other choke points are an absolute necessity. Before Alpha 6 I could get away with feeling less 'cheaty' and just building a perimeter to defend around my entire base, but now the only way I'm surviving raids is to pile sandbags far enough that the snipers couldn't shoot if they stood on the edge of them, which forces everyone to come nicely within range of some charge rifles (Fun fact: When walking across debris and/or sandbags, pawns can't shoot >:D)
The possibility of losing limbs and crippling colonists should have coincided with the introduction of 'at least' being able to use a wooden prosthetic in those cases.
Now I feel as if my game is 'crippled' until the next alpha comes out in a month or two.
Great otherwise, but kinda game-breaking/crippling... Literally. I would recommend rolling out at least one update to address any major bugs (if any) and adding the wooden prosthetic into the game.
Quote from: milon on August 14, 2014, 08:06:15 PM
I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard to make a mod that nerfs the crippling effects currently in the game. Those who don't like the bodypart / serious injury bits could easily bypass them.
EDIT - Until such a mod exists, the save game editor (http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=5346.0) may be useful.
Woo free advertising. I do plan on implementing a healthTracker portion, but I'm no there just yet. As for a mod, you'd have to extend the healthTracker class, and replace the health tracker on every pawn with yours. I haven't looked into it beyond that (don't know if health tracker is assigned in Defs or in the actual code) so I can't say how hard that would be exactly.
As for the save editor, I'm working on the thoughts portion today. Maybe once I get through that I'll prioritize the healthtracker.
Just did some more quick testing with start colonists.
1st test: 1 colonist shoots 2nd colonist twice with Hunting rifle before incapped. Healed back to full in a few days with no lasting conditions.
2nd test: 2 colonists shoot 3rd colonist 8 times with pistols before incapped. Colonist makes full recovery over several days except for one eye which was completely shot out. Shooting efficiency 50%/Work efficiency:93%
3rd test: 2 colonists shoot 3rd colonist with pistols, colonist is shot 6 times, 7th shot is to the head, fatal.
4th test: 2 colonists shoot 3rd colonist with hunting rifle/pistol. Colonist shot 4 times before incapp. Makes close to a full recovery in short order besides lingering pain and a scar on his hand.
So barring head shots, pretty much as long as the colonist doesn't actually lose a body part, and you treat him in time he's going to be mostly fine. (These guys didn't have any armor or helmets either which I imagine plays a large roll in protecting ones head/limbs from catastrophic damage, nor were they in cover.)
I must say that the new combat system seems to make it a lot easier to protect your base once you have 12 colonist in power armour and miniguns. Especially when they can hide behind steel walls and sandbags while raiders squeezing through that 1 tile wide gap in your wall which is packed with sandbags and contains a tight turn forcing them into close range with no cover no matter what sort of weapon they have and making the 10+ turrets just inside the wall just that little bit more helpful too.
So far this has been one of my most easily protected colonies and I didn't even need to use turrets as bombs.
I just hate my allies and want them all to die horribly. Get the heck out of my base you freeloading illegitimate progeny of whatever the local equivalent of a canine female is!
Quote from: Lost Cause on August 14, 2014, 11:35:07 PM
I must say that the new combat system seems to make it a lot easier to protect your base once you have 12 colonist in power armour and miniguns. Especially when they can hide behind steel walls and sandbags while raiders squeezing through that 1 tile wide gap in your wall which is packed with sandbags and contains a tight turn forcing them into close range with no cover no matter what sort of weapon they have and making the 10+ turrets just inside the wall just that little bit more helpful too.
So far this has been one of my most easily protected colonies and I didn't even need to use turrets as bombs.
I just hate my allies and want them all to die horribly. Get the heck out of my base you freeloading illegitimate progeny of whatever the local equivalent of a canine female is!
Shameless self-plug incoming:
Try out my mod Colonist Only Doors (http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=5178.0)
Stop visitors entering certain areas (or your whole base) and lock pawns in to avoid threats.
Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 14, 2014, 07:06:20 PM
^^Double-this.
Also, I don't get where everyone is coming up with idea that it's unfairly brutal and random.
Well, if you'd read the thread you'd find out
- Human jaws being broken by squirrels
- Human limbs getting dismembered by stones (or pistol shots)
- Colonists being able to function after getting shot in the heart
Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 15, 2014, 08:18:46 AM
Well, if you'd read the thread you'd find out
- Human jaws being broken by squirrels
- Human limbs getting dismembered by stones (or pistol shots)
- Colonists being able to function after getting shot in the heart
While I don't think limbs SHOULD be directly shot off by pistol shots, if the wound is bad enough the arm may need to be amputated anyway. Not arguing, just making that point.
I have another for the list though, raiders (or colonists) walking away from a headshot.
Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 15, 2014, 08:18:46 AM
Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 14, 2014, 07:06:20 PM
^^Double-this.
Also, I don't get where everyone is coming up with idea that it's unfairly brutal and random.
Well, if you'd read the thread you'd find out
- Human jaws being broken by squirrels
- Human limbs getting dismembered by stones (or pistol shots)
- Colonists being able to function after getting shot in the heart
I did read the thread, but my personal playtime with Alpha 6 doesn't support the claim that these things are common place. At worst they are rare, minor inconsistencies that will be ironed out as the system is balanced/improved. I've done quite a bit of testing in game and while random deaths or over exaggerated injuries do occur, they are the exemption, not the rule in my experience. The only thing that actually needs to be fixed is colonists being worthless without legs or arms, but prosthetic's are coming in Alpha 7 so who really cares? Put them out of their misery and recruit another colonist from one of the many incapped pirates no doubt laying around on the floor. Lol.
Quote from: Neurotoxin on August 15, 2014, 08:27:23 AM
While I don't think limbs SHOULD be directly shot off by pistol shots, if the wound is bad enough the arm may need to be amputated anyway. Not arguing, just making that point.
I have another for the list though, raiders (or colonists) walking away from a headshot.
There are plenty of things on your head you don't need to live lol! He could have been shot in the ear, the nose, through his cheek etc...
Hey guys. I've been here since the Kickstarter but this is my first post ever.
I agree with most of you. The new combat system is great and gives a lot of depth to Rimworld. Of course it needs tweaking. I've never had a squirrel breaking my colonists jaw (probably because I now I draft five colonists to go kill a psychotic squirrel. You can never be to safe in a rimworld I imagine), or a stone cutting a limb of. However on one of my pirate besieging raids, one of my explosive shells landed one square away from a pirate and naturally all is limbs were shredded (arms, legs, neck, stomach) but amazingly he was still alive. Eventually I assaulted the raiders and managed to rescue him and I was thinking I should've put him out of is misery since he was still alive thanks to some supernatural entity (Tynan). But the good guy in me (or the bad depending on your point of view) wanted to rescue him, so I did. I healed him and for everyone's surprise he made a full recovery, even without a large amount of muscle tissue and I didn't use medicine, just tissues and hands. In the real world that guy would be incapacitated for life and if he wanted even to get out of bed he would need a lot os physiotherapy and painkillers and even that was a shot in the dark. So yeah the new combat system needs a tweak. This kind of remind that painkillers, antibiotics and some other pharmaceutical/drugs should also be added to the game, but that's for another topic.
This combat system isn't harsh or unfair, it's real. This kind of makes it harsh and unfair, but you get my point.
PS: Tynan keep up the good and hard work. It's only still alpha but you've already achieved a lot.
Quote from: Neurotoxin on August 15, 2014, 08:27:23 AM
While I don't think limbs SHOULD be directly shot off by pistol shots, if the wound is bad enough the arm may need to be amputated anyway. Not arguing, just making that point.
Something like this occurred to me later as well, in the sense that a simple pistol shot could permanently disable a limb should the bullet hit the right nerve or cause critical muscle tissue damage.
Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 15, 2014, 08:58:56 AM
I did read the thread, but my personal playtime with Alpha 6 doesn't support the claim that these things are common place. At worst they are rare, minor inconsistencies that will be ironed out as the system is balanced/improved. I've done quite a bit of testing in game and while random deaths or over exaggerated injuries do occur, they are the exemption, not the rule in my experience. The only thing that actually needs to be fixed is colonists being worthless without legs or arms, but prosthetic's are coming in Alpha 7 so who really cares? Put them out of their misery and recruit another colonist from one of the many incapped pirates no doubt laying around on the floor. Lol.
Well... Ok. I believe you. I don't know why, but I believe you.
Quote from: DeltaTango on August 15, 2014, 11:16:20 AM
This kind of remind that painkillers, antibiotics and some other pharmaceutical/drugs should also be added to the game, but that's for another topic.
I like to think that all those are included in the medical kits. They're just not visible. Or were you trying to suggest that recovering colonists should require regular medical treatment, and therefore consume medical supplies constantly over a period of time?
Here's a good example of a seriously injured pawn making a full recovery, This raider was shot 5 times with a pistol and 4 times with an R-4 charge rifle, she wasn't wearing any armor and she wasn't in cover.
(http://s24.postimg.org/rh849of51/Prisoner_Hurt.jpg)(http://s16.postimg.org/qmeq894p1/Prisoner_Healed.jpg)
This colony is only 20 days old btw, so not like it has a good doctor or anything. (Highest skilled guy has a 7.)
That's on way to do it. Put everything on the medicalkit, like a first aid kit. If Rimworld wants to be as close to reality as it can be, then yes, colonists should require regular medical treatment but I can see that becoming to challenging for someone who's only looking to have fun. For instance, if a psychothic squirrel (probably has rabies or some kind of virus) attacks your colonist he might get infected. And with infection comes fever and other symptoms depending on the virus. He should also be in quarentine and at least for a week he should have regular medical care, if everything goes well. If not, he'll probably last a couple of days. But that's the clinical scientist in me talking right now.
Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 15, 2014, 03:00:13 PM
Here's a good example of a seriously injured pawn making a full recovery, This raider was shot 5 times with a pistol and 4 times with an R-4 charge rifle, she wasn't wearing any armor and she wasn't in cover.
This colony is only 20 days old btw, so not like it has a good doctor or anything. (Highest skilled guy has a 7.)
A shot in the heart is not always a instakill but with that kind of injuries, you have to be wolverine to survive
Quote from: DeltaTango on August 15, 2014, 03:57:25 PMA shot in the heart is not always a instakill but with that kind of injuries, you have to be wolverine to survive
Or a colonist in Rimworld. :D
Really, though, as long as you aren't hit in the brain or eyes, you don't even need medkits, just let the doctor stop the bleeding and it's all fine. The chance of wounds going old is 1 in 200, which is very very rare.
Quote from: Rahjital on August 15, 2014, 04:11:04 PM
Quote from: DeltaTango on August 15, 2014, 03:57:25 PMA shot in the heart is not always a instakill but with that kind of injuries, you have to be wolverine to survive
Or a colonist in Rimworld. :D
Really, though, as long as you aren't hit in the brain or eyes, you don't even need medkits, just let the doctor stop the bleeding and it's all fine. The chance of wounds going old is 1 in 200, which is very very rare.
Hmmm if it's a scratch just bandages will do, but a gun shot? You need at least something to take the bullet out and a slightly steralized equipment for that because in that kind of evironment with no plumbing, no sewers, that's an infection waiting to happen.
Quote from: DeltaTango on August 15, 2014, 03:57:25 PM
Quote from: HatesYourFace on August 15, 2014, 03:00:13 PM
Here's a good example of a seriously injured pawn making a full recovery, This raider was shot 5 times with a pistol and 4 times with an R-4 charge rifle, she wasn't wearing any armor and she wasn't in cover.
This colony is only 20 days old btw, so not like it has a good doctor or anything. (Highest skilled guy has a 7.)
A shot in the heart is not always a instakill but with that kind of injuries, you have to be wolverine to survive
She is a vatgrown soldier to be fair lol. She's also a Surgeon who refuses to do doctor work. She's a puzzle wrapped inside an enigma and placed in a maze.
Oh HatesYourFace, if there are any quotes you should not paraphrase it's Churchill's ones :D
Quote from: DeltaTango on August 15, 2014, 04:27:06 PMHmmm if it's a scratch just bandages will do, but a gun shot? You need at least something to take the bullet out and a slightly steralized equipment for that because in that kind of evironment with no plumbing, no sewers, that's an infection waiting to happen.
Yeah, that's how it should be, but unfortunately not like it is now when colonist don't even require treatment with half a dozen gunshots. With some luck, it will be like that in Alpha 7 though.
Quote from: Rahjital on August 15, 2014, 04:58:33 PM
Oh HatesYourFace, if there are any quotes you should not paraphrase it's Churchill's ones :D
Quote from: DeltaTango on August 15, 2014, 04:27:06 PMHmmm if it's a scratch just bandages will do, but a gun shot? You need at least something to take the bullet out and a slightly steralized equipment for that because in that kind of evironment with no plumbing, no sewers, that's an infection waiting to happen.
Yeah, that's how it should be, but unfortunately not like it is now when colonist don't even require treatment with half a dozen gunshots. With some luck, it will be like that in Alpha 7 though.
Yes, I'm aware of that and Rimworld is still in an Alpha state. I believe sinks and toilets at least must be in the plan to be added. We just have to wait for now I guess.
Quote from: Rahjital on August 15, 2014, 04:11:04 PM
Quote from: DeltaTango on August 15, 2014, 03:57:25 PMA shot in the heart is not always a instakill but with that kind of injuries, you have to be wolverine to survive
Or a colonist in Rimworld. :D
Really, though, as long as you aren't hit in the brain or eyes, you don't even need medkits, just let the doctor stop the bleeding and it's all fine. The chance of wounds going old is 1 in 200, which is very very rare.
Not always,
I had a raid where one of the raiders got hit in the head he lost his eye by my improvised turrets. before my guys could get to him his would was considered "old" and I am positive he didn't have the wound before.
Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 14, 2014, 05:38:01 PM
No one likes crippled colonists with no hope of ever being cured. Now, if there were technologies that required lenghty research, and you'd have the HOPE of eventually restoring colonists to full functionality, or even further, within the same playthrough, that'd be great. But we don't have that hope now. So, I'm off RimWorld. I'm shielding myself. You've been a nice drug and a distraction so far but this stage is just meh, even though I was pretty ecstatic and amazed while reading through the list of updates. Even if Alpha 7 rescues this current situation, it doesn't matter right now. A month off, a year off, doesn't make a difference to me. I'll stick with letsplays at most. Or Alpha 5... Uhh, I mean, I'm quitting.
I thought this post had some legitimate complaints, but after this point in it, I started laughing. I like the new combat system but I understand why you wouldn't. This response was hilariously overblown and melodramatic however. Especially since prosthetics have been confirmed for the very next update.
Quote from: GeorgeOrwell on August 16, 2014, 05:23:40 AM
Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 14, 2014, 05:38:01 PM
No one likes crippled colonists with no hope of ever being cured. Now, if there were technologies that required lenghty research, and you'd have the HOPE of eventually restoring colonists to full functionality, or even further, within the same playthrough, that'd be great. But we don't have that hope now. So, I'm off RimWorld. I'm shielding myself. You've been a nice drug and a distraction so far but this stage is just meh, even though I was pretty ecstatic and amazed while reading through the list of updates. Even if Alpha 7 rescues this current situation, it doesn't matter right now. A month off, a year off, doesn't make a difference to me. I'll stick with letsplays at most. Or Alpha 5... Uhh, I mean, I'm quitting.
I thought this post had some legitimate complaints, but after this point in it, I started laughing. I like the new combat system but I understand why you wouldn't. This response was hilariously overblown and melodramatic however. Especially since prosthetics have been confirmed for the very next update.
If Rimworld was already a finished game I could understand his complaints, but at this stage? I can only imagine he doesn't know what alpha means. And instead of helping the development of Rimworld by making constructive criticism or suggestions, he just says he's quitting. I can't understand that kind of people. It's like going to the beach and not wanting to get sand on his body. It's an alpha, it's normal to have some mechanics unbalanced, some bugs. Like we say in my country, the people that are here are the ones that matter.
Quote from: GeorgeOrwell on August 16, 2014, 05:23:40 AM
I thought this post had some legitimate complaints, but after this point in it, I started laughing. I like the new combat system but I understand why you wouldn't. This response was hilariously overblown and melodramatic however. Especially since prosthetics have been confirmed for the very next update.
I was perfectly aware that prosthetics were coming in A7! You missed the point, which is that a month is a long time to play with a game that has a major flaw in it. They really should've skipped this update, code in the prosthetics as well, tweak the damage distribution and health recovery, and push A6 to September or further.
Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 16, 2014, 11:58:20 AM
I was perfectly aware that prosthetics were coming in A7! You missed the point, which is that a month is a long time to play with a game that has a major flaw in it. They really should've skipped this update, code in the prosthetics as well, tweak the damage distribution and health recovery, and push A6 to September or further.
Well, just keep playing alpha 5 until prostheses are added then. No need to keep everyone on alpha 5, though.
OP here, this topic blew up a lot more than I expected. I just want to clarify, it's more accurate to say that I love the stories that come out of the new combat system, rather than the system itself. I think it's a huge step in the right direction, but as many of you pointed out it also has parts that need to be fixed. I certainly wouldn't call it a major flaw. Some of the occurrences seem unrealistic, but in my opinion its a vast improvement over the colonists and raiders soaking up bullets like it wasn't a big deal back in previous versions.
Quote from: bwebster on August 16, 2014, 06:46:47 PM
OP here, this topic blew up a lot more than I expected. I just want to clarify, it's more accurate to say that I love the stories that come out of the new combat system, rather than the system itself. I think it's a huge step in the right direction, but as many of you pointed out it also has parts that need to be fixed. I certainly wouldn't call it a major flaw. Some of the occurrences seem unrealistic, but in my opinion its a vast improvement over the colonists and raiders soaking up bullets like it wasn't a big deal back in previous versions.
Its not bad that topics blow up. It means it touches a nerve or something.
I guess if the damages get regulated a bit (the bit about the squirrel and the broken jaw... that was my first "injury" at all in this version so I used it as example. The stone throw taking off a leg was not my experience, it was a mate of mine who got it), and the prostetics are in... The game might be alright again.
That, and the RNG taken down a notch. Currently, it seems to do a random to see if the target is hit, and then a random to see where it hit. So a incompetent weaver could score a headshot just as likely as a grizzled vat grown soldier. This can of course work, but is a bit RNG heavy as I wrote before.
In real gun-combat, scoring a "center mass" shot isnt as difficult as scoring a headshot. Its still awesomely difficult, if there is return fire (something Rimworld doesnt give a damn about). It would follow that badly skilled shooters would "aim" to hit center mass, and good gunmen shoot for the vitals/head (given the right weapon of course... you are not very likely to go headshotting with a minigun). This means a "5 cm" off shot for a good shooter that aimed for the head might get him a grazing wound and stunning the opponent, while a center mass shot of a bad shooter that goes "5 cm off" would still hit the bigger target, but wouldnt have nearly the same effect as the grazing shot to the head. Also, a layman shooter would more often shoot more than 5 cm off target. Skill comes into play two ways that way :)
One of my friends commented that at this point, the game is almost punishing you for playing because if you don't have a doctor with 20 medicine, they're bound to mess up injuries and people will slowly become more crippled until RNG takes away their leg. I name the original three colonists after myself and friends so seeing myself or a friend stuck in bed for the rest of the game is depressing to look at.
TechTreeMinami gives a medkit called Regenulant which forcibly heals all wounds that aren't grayed out but I also just use save editing to whisk away injuries from heavily wounded colonists who can't use the Regenulant themselves and then edit away a dose of the stuff.
Quote from: Neurotoxin on August 15, 2014, 08:27:23 AMWhile I don't think limbs SHOULD be directly shot off by pistol shots, if the wound is bad enough the arm may need to be amputated anyway. Not arguing, just making that point.
I have another for the list though, raiders (or colonists) walking away from a headshot.
I would like to point out that it's possible to survive a bullet to the brain. It's incredibly rare in comparison to the number of headshots that
are fatal, but it does happen fairly often in real life. Many times the actual bullet is left inside the brain because it would be too dangerous to try to remove it. Given that not all headshots are shots to the brain, and that surviving brain shots doesn't seem to happen often in Rim World (in my experience), it's pretty darned realistic.
That's not to say it doesn't sting when a colonist is one-shotted by an expert sniper. It is what it is. I'm not perfect in this regard myself, but I think people need to stop expecting to be able to play without any losses. People get hurt and die, you know? If you have to restart a bunch of times to get through a raid without any deaths or cripples, it probably wasn't meant to be that way. You could always lower the difficulty if that bothers you for some reason.
Btw, I like the new difficulty curve in the "default" (Cassandra w/Challenging). It's starts out really easy, quickly turns into manageable threats, and by late game you actually have major threats to the colony. Even at that, so long as you loot your enemies and don't make bad tactical decisions, it's very do-able.
Quote from: Goo Poni on August 30, 2014, 01:55:43 PM
One of my friends commented that at this point, the game is almost punishing you for playing because if you don't have a doctor with 20 medicine, they're bound to mess up injuries and people will slowly become more crippled until RNG takes away their leg. I name the original three colonists after myself and friends so seeing myself or a friend stuck in bed for the rest of the game is depressing to look at.
Yeah? Medicine is an important resource, so I think that's the point. You can always buy it off traders. (They all carry medicine, but it's cheapest with the weapon's dealers.)