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RimWorld => General Discussion => Topic started by: Ramsis on August 27, 2014, 10:38:32 AM

Title: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Ramsis on August 27, 2014, 10:38:32 AM
Sorry just reading up on the changelog as I do every so often throughout my day and I'm a tad bit baffled. So if I went to make a wall out of what would initially be a metal wall, then I opted to have it built with stone, what exactly would I be looking at? What properties could I expect this odd yet beautiful wall to have? Also from that understanding what would a silver wall be and what perks would that have?

Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: EscapeZeppelin on August 27, 2014, 11:03:51 AM
Why would you make a metal wall out of stone? You decide to make a wall and then choose the material it's made out of. The properties will be decided by the material used. I suspect a silver wall would have no perks other than "hey look at my silver wall, I'm so fancy". Seeing as it's made of silver I expect it will have terrible resistance to damage.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Shinzy on August 27, 2014, 11:15:55 AM
Aye! you're likely just going to have one generic 'wall' option to build with and then choose what to build it of like Zeppelin says there!
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Tynan on August 27, 2014, 12:49:58 PM
The building is 'wall'. You choose what you want to build it out of. If it's metal, it becomes "metal wall" and gets all the stat modifiers for being metal. Same with stone and silver. And yeah, silver isn't really awesome (though I honestly don't know much about the strength properties of silver), but it's very pretty!
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: milon on August 27, 2014, 01:09:01 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 27, 2014, 12:49:58 PM
(though I honestly don't know much about the strength properties of silver)

http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html (http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html)
Reflectivity: 97% (Shiny!!)
Electrical Resistivity: 1.63  10-8  (Lower resistivity than Iron, Gold, Aluminum, etc >> Really Good Conductor?)
Hardness seems to be fairly low, compared to other metals like Iron.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Shinzy on August 27, 2014, 01:35:10 PM
Quote from: milon on August 27, 2014, 01:09:01 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 27, 2014, 12:49:58 PM
(though I honestly don't know much about the strength properties of silver)

http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html (http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html)
Reflectivity: 97% (Shiny!!)
Electrical Resistivity: 1.63  10-8  (Lower resistivity than Iron, Gold, Aluminum, etc >> Really Good Conductor?)
Hardness seems to be fairly low, compared to other metals like Iron.

Don't forget 1d6 +2 vs. Lycanthropes!
and 0 reflectivity on Tacos
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: SSS on August 28, 2014, 02:33:34 AM
Silver conducts electricity better than any other element. We use copper more because it's cheaper. Amongst metals, silver conducts heat better than any other, and it's also the most reflective (of metals).

Maybe you could make a benefit for building power lines out of silver?
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Shinzy on August 28, 2014, 03:14:51 AM
Quote from: SSS on August 28, 2014, 02:33:34 AM
Silver conducts electricity better than any other element. We use copper more because it's cheaper. Amongst metals, silver conducts heat better than any other, and it's also the most reflective (of metals).

Maybe you could make a benefit for building power lines out of silver?

What kind of benefits? like less power loss per square? the way minecraft does with some of the mods
That'd be really neat actually, you'd really have to think on your base layout
No hunkering down inside a mountain without silver lining!
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: ThatOtherGuy on August 28, 2014, 05:05:13 AM
"Door and powered door can now be made out of arbitrary stuffs. - Walls can now be made of arbitrary stuffs."

IT HAS COME TRUE! BEHOLD MY CASTLE OF SQUIRREL MEAT!

Also check out those powered raspberry doors. Neato, eh?
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: stefanstr on August 28, 2014, 05:33:50 AM
One worry I have is the powered walls. Will all walls be powered now? Will we have to add metal to create powered walls? Will we have to use power conduits for everything?

The first option is bad - I like to use stone walls sometimes specifically to limit power to some areas of the base. Also, this would make metal much less useful. The second option might create unnecessary complexity. The third option would make logistics cumbersome with all the cables on the floor.

Another worry I have is realism. Precious metals are really sparse in the universe. It would disrupt immersion for me if I was to find a motherlode of silver/gold in every game. I think these should be very rare and only once every X games should you hit upon „Potosi", if ever.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Rahjital on August 28, 2014, 06:11:24 AM
There could simply be a "can transmit power" ability of materials. Walls built out of metal or wood could transmit power while log or stone walls wouldn't.

It doesn't seem like you'll be able to mine silver anytime soon. It's pretty much money, so if you want to be able to build a palace out of it, you'll have to get rich by trading first, which is entirely reasonable. After all, there are men whowear shirts woven out of gold (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/127000-gold-shirt-indian-businessmans-4kg-garment-is-worth-its-weight-in-gold-9656428.html).
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: ThatOtherGuy on August 28, 2014, 07:22:00 AM
Why do we need walls that transmit power? IRL the power is transmitted by wires running through the wall, not the wall itself. The sensible solution might just be to give us the ability to lay power conduits through the walls. That would sound like a more consistent system to me.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: RawCode on August 28, 2014, 10:57:55 AM
First thing i will build with new system is walls made from human meat... (some creepy references about aliens who use human bodies as building material)
To be precise - pirate meat (or tribal meat) (or random visitors)
Probably floors also will be made from meat.

Second thing is furniture from human bones (or just meat, since there is no bones yet in vanilla).

Third thing - i will dress my colonist in human leather dusters, probably black ones if possible.

Colony will be named "Kingdom of leave hope behind doorstep please".

Power conduit system at this moment looks like very big and very ugly placeholder, especially with walls that do not conduit power.
In most cases wires placed below floor or over ceiling, they never placed over floor.
Wires should build in manner similar to floors, this will allow to remove any conductivity from walls and objects and provide full power and full control to player.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: stefanstr on August 28, 2014, 03:03:55 PM
Tynan decided to respond with the changelog instead of a post: "Added power conduit wall. You can build any wall with a power conduit inside."
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Tynan on August 28, 2014, 03:17:48 PM
:D

I'm here... lurking... breathing... touching... the keyboard... to write code to implement good ideas from the forums...
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: stefanstr on August 28, 2014, 03:30:44 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 28, 2014, 03:17:48 PM
:D

I'm here... lurking... breathing... touching... the keyboard... to write code to implement good ideas from the forums...

Which is one of the main reasons I have decided to buy RimWorld. The way you communicate with us is just exceptional. Now I am thinking, you should start a savoir-vivre school for indie developers. :D
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: mrofa on August 28, 2014, 04:06:38 PM
Ah my poor silver walls X_X

Hmm i wonder what will uranium walls looks like :D
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Shinzy on August 28, 2014, 04:34:15 PM
Quote from: mrofa on August 28, 2014, 04:06:38 PM
Ah my poor silver walls X_X

Hmm i wonder what will uranium walls looks like :D


(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y168/Teppana/Muffatio-Caine_zps5bc67460.gif) (http://s5.photobucket.com/user/Teppana/media/Muffatio-Caine_zps5bc67460.gif.html)


Sorry! I'm tired
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: theubie on August 28, 2014, 05:42:53 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 28, 2014, 03:17:48 PM
:D

I'm here... lurking... breathing... touching... the keyboard... to write code to implement good ideas from the forums...

Hello, I'm Chris Hansen.  Why don't you take a seat over there...
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: UrbanBourbon on August 28, 2014, 08:35:46 PM
I will build silver walls only if they take over 400 silver per wall, and if each wall tile is worth far less than the silver they take to build. Colony value is always a problem. :| It's not easy to pretend to be poor... I mean, if you want to jack up the colony value, select the entire map as home zone and wall yourself in. Then wait for the next mechanoid drop and enjoy the slaughter. Be a god and watch the little things kill each other.

Things might be interesting if walls couldn't be deconstructed neatly...

Will I be able to build a wall out of potatoes and will it have 1 or 2 hitpoints?
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Raufgar on August 28, 2014, 09:00:32 PM
Quote from: UrbanBourbon on August 28, 2014, 08:35:46 PM
Will I be able to build a wall out of potatoes and will it have 1 or 2 hitpoints?

Your wall might start growing and gain hitpoints. OR your colonist might, in a fit of hunger, start munching on your growing tater wall and get poisoned...
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: HatesYourFace on August 28, 2014, 09:41:27 PM
I can't seem to find then post as it's been buried but Tynan already specifically said you won't be able to make items/walls (or other things I imagine) out of anything ridiculous that wouldn't make sense. The two in game examples he used were Cloth Power Armor and making Walls out of Strawberries.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: SSS on August 29, 2014, 12:14:18 AM
Quote from: Shinzy on August 28, 2014, 03:14:51 AM
Quote from: SSS on August 28, 2014, 02:33:34 AM
Silver conducts electricity better than any other element. We use copper more because it's cheaper. Amongst metals, silver conducts heat better than any other, and it's also the most reflective (of metals).

Maybe you could make a benefit for building power lines out of silver?

What kind of benefits? like less power loss per square? the way minecraft does with some of the mods
That'd be really neat actually, you'd really have to think on your base layout
No hunkering down inside a mountain without silver lining!

Yes! That's exactly what I'm suggesting. You see, what you make your power lines out of irl determines how much power is lost over a given distance. The better the conductor, the longer you can carry the charge with minimal loss. Given that we have a blanket "metal" for building right now, I think it's safe to assume it's iron since that's a strong building material and steel would require processing. (Other possibilities include aluminum, lead, tin, and nickel [in descending order of likelihood, by my guesstimation].) If it's aluminum, you wouldn't see much of a difference in power loss unless you're running the line over half-way across the map. If the metal is iron, though, you'd see a BIG difference in power loss, even over shortish distances.


@Tynan: Do we know what metal our metal is yet? Or is it undecided?

Quote from: Tynan on August 28, 2014, 03:17:48 PM
:D

I'm here... lurking... breathing... touching... the keyboard... to write code to implement good ideas from the forums...

That's exciting! And creepy!

...

Good day to you, sir~ (And thanks for the cool power conduit implementation. ^-^)
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: RemingtonRyder on August 29, 2014, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: milon on August 27, 2014, 01:09:01 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 27, 2014, 12:49:58 PM
(though I honestly don't know much about the strength properties of silver)

http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html (http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html)
Reflectivity: 97% (Shiny!!)
Electrical Resistivity: 1.63  10-8  (Lower resistivity than Iron, Gold, Aluminum, etc >> Really Good Conductor?)
Hardness seems to be fairly low, compared to other metals like Iron.

Useful if you want to defend against lasers, I guess. :)
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Shinzy on August 29, 2014, 10:01:33 AM
Quote from: marvinkosh on August 29, 2014, 09:56:22 AM
Quote from: milon on August 27, 2014, 01:09:01 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 27, 2014, 12:49:58 PM
(though I honestly don't know much about the strength properties of silver)

http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html (http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html)
Reflectivity: 97% (Shiny!!)
Electrical Resistivity: 1.63  10-8  (Lower resistivity than Iron, Gold, Aluminum, etc >> Really Good Conductor?)
Hardness seems to be fairly low, compared to other metals like Iron.

Useful if you want to defend against lasers, I guess. :)

Oh god! Imagine a laser fight in some sort of 2x20 silver corridor
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: ShadowTani on August 29, 2014, 11:26:05 AM
Quote from: Shinzy on August 29, 2014, 10:01:33 AM
Oh god! Imagine a laser fight in some sort of 2x20 silver corridor
Or a killbox area with silver walls, full of laser turrets made out of silver too. The horrors for the cleaning crew. xD
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Rahjital on August 29, 2014, 11:45:06 AM
Quote from: Shinzy on August 29, 2014, 10:01:33 AM
Oh god! Imagine a laser fight in some sort of 2x20 silver corridor

And then you find out Tynan decided to go the realistic route and made lasers shoot ultraviolet light that silver does not reflect :P

By the way, walls being split into powered and unpowered eithers means that all powered walls burn, even the stone ones, or that powered stone walls don't burn and we'll finally have fire-resistant way to transfer power.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: REMworlder on August 29, 2014, 03:48:55 PM
QuoteTynan decided to respond with the changelog instead of a post: "Added power conduit wall. You can build any wall with a power conduit inside."

I'm more excited about this than I should be. I wonder how much cable management I'll be able to do with my stone-walled fortresses now.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: milon on August 29, 2014, 04:56:53 PM
I'm actually pretty stoked about that too!  :D
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Shinzy on August 29, 2014, 05:05:28 PM
huh, I'm really curious of what's the point of wireless walls now?
still I can't wait to build my base in alpha 7! =P inner sanctum made of silver stuffs with silver stuff rugs!
and doors at the main gate made of stone stuffs
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: stefanstr on August 29, 2014, 05:13:13 PM
Quote from: Shinzy on August 29, 2014, 05:05:28 PM
huh, I'm really curious of what's the point of wireless walls now?
still I can't wait to build my base in alpha 7! =P inner sanctum made of silver stuffs with silver stuff rugs!
and doors at the main gate made of stone stuffs

For example keeping a stash of fully loaded batteries disjoint from the main network for backup power.

And remember that powered walls can short-circuit, so it actually makes sense to put the non-powered ones wherever possible.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: Tynan on August 29, 2014, 05:18:47 PM
Wireless is cheaper.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: ousire on August 29, 2014, 05:35:36 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 27, 2014, 12:49:58 PM
The building is 'wall'. You choose what you want to build it out of. If it's metal, it becomes "metal wall" and gets all the stat modifiers for being metal. Same with stone and silver. And yeah, silver isn't really awesome (though I honestly don't know much about the strength properties of silver), but it's very pretty!

So if we want durable walls, make them out of stone or metal, but if we want walls that say BLING BLING use silver? When are you adding in stuff like gold and diamond so we can make our base as tacky as possible? :P

I assume the material will modify how pretty the building is too? Silver walls will be prettier than stone and metal? And walls of meat and bone will make people run in terror? :D
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: DigitalProeliator on August 30, 2014, 01:23:46 AM
Ha and here I was making a mod for a cobblestone walls. Haha might as well hold off on that.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: theapolaustic1 on August 30, 2014, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: milon on August 27, 2014, 01:09:01 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 27, 2014, 12:49:58 PM
(though I honestly don't know much about the strength properties of silver)

http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html (http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html)
Reflectivity: 97% (Shiny!!)
Electrical Resistivity: 1.63  10-8  (Lower resistivity than Iron, Gold, Aluminum, etc >> Really Good Conductor?)
Hardness seems to be fairly low, compared to other metals like Iron.

Silver walls increasing battery efficiency if they're used for the connection (or something akin to that)?

Could be a neat fringe benefit of using silver walls, though I'm pretty sure opulence would still always be the primary motivation for doing it.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: SSS on August 30, 2014, 07:58:26 PM
Quote from: theapolaustic1 on August 30, 2014, 07:42:48 PM
Quote from: milon on August 27, 2014, 01:09:01 PM
Quote from: Tynan on August 27, 2014, 12:49:58 PM
(though I honestly don't know much about the strength properties of silver)

http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html (http://www.webelements.com/silver/physics.html)
Reflectivity: 97% (Shiny!!)
Electrical Resistivity: 1.63  10-8  (Lower resistivity than Iron, Gold, Aluminum, etc >> Really Good Conductor?)
Hardness seems to be fairly low, compared to other metals like Iron.

Silver walls increasing battery efficiency if they're used for the connection (or something akin to that)?

Could be a neat fringe benefit of using silver walls, though I'm pretty sure opulence would still always be the primary motivation for doing it.

Using silver in the actual building of batteries would make sense too.
Title: Re: Baffled a bit. So we can make Metal walls out of Stone...?
Post by: RawCode on August 31, 2014, 07:06:42 AM
over complication does not make sense in most cases

let allow us to craft batteries from lead, sulfuric acid, copper and tin  and zinc and something else - add ores for everything, add ore processing for everything and in final you will get exactly same battery and perform exactly same process, but (number of ores at play * times).

probably it's fun in casual games (where you must click of "factories" to get resource from) but people with IQ over 60 may find such activity stupid and boring.

same action without any changes should "occur" reasonable amount of times.

so, basic types of machines should be crafted from abstract "metal", if player want, he can craft same machine from gold\silver\copper\whatever, but only single (max 3 under specific conditions, like conductive walls - metal for conduit + base wall component) components at time.

if player want up to 3 components come to play, if not - everything should be craftable from metal only.