Warning: This will be complex and or confusing (mostly because English is my third language, sorry)
Frankly, I wouldn't accept a bribe (300 silvers) to be friendly towards another colony and I specially wouldn't send my people just because they gave me some silvers, so why would other colony accept it too?
So I read somewhere in the change log that other colonist are located in the map somewhere, and this suggestions have something to do with that.
Here is my idea in a nutshell, I think we should be able to make allies and enemies not just by trading silvers.
If Colony A (C-A) and my colony hates Colony B, and C-A is outmatched via population, weapons, and low defense, then wouldn't it make sense for my colony and C-A to be allies? Assuming our missions statement (can't think of another word) does not contradicts.
That is another suggestions. Each colony should have missions statements. Maybe there should be a list of things we can pick and our colony will abide it, example:
-Religion preference (not going to church- lower mood)
-Religion we hate (If C-B have a religion that we hate, then we will be enemies
-Do we care about environment? (chopping too much trees will give negative mood)
-etc etc.
We have to pick 3 mission statements that will give us bad mood if we don't abide, 2 good mission statements that will only help us, and 2 missions statements we hate.
Now back to diplomacy. If C-A believes in Religion A (R-A) and my colony believes in R-B, then it's possible for us to be allies (unless C-A hates R-B), but it would take longer.
(maybe make up a religion so it doesn't offend people).
Another example; If C-A cares about the environment and my colony doesn't, then C-A might not want to be our allies, if it's the opposite, then I guess it's up to you to decide if you want to be allied with them.
If C-A realized that my colony outmatched him, then there is a low chance of them attacking us, and the chance of attacking increases and decreases depending on our missions statements.
Trading, and not just by item to silver, but rather item to item.
Trading is a big part of this game, because not everything is unlimited.
If C-B (our enemy) is about to attack C-A (our ally), then we should be able to trade, maybe I will give you some of my weapons if you give me some of your med kits (or something fair).
Alright, I hope I didn't confuse you, If you have any ideas to add to my suggestions, do not hesitate to reply. TY wanted us to feel emotions towards every person that we have, but I also want to include other colonies, because It's not as fun fighting mindless AI than fighting a colony that truly believes on its mission statements. (I still can't think of a word better than mission statement) Thanks for reading.
Oh hell no, no, NOT RELIGIONS... Everything else BUT religions... >:( :(
The game will have hell break loose. Everyone will go something like " Ooooh, why ain't my religion in game, why do those stinking tribals have to be atheists, while only the "good guys" get to be atheists?" <-- Same thing for christians and so... people will begin to blame the game, and just have the atheist and christian argument over and over again spammed on the forums.
The only way i could agree with religions it was if they were randomly generated. Then YES. :)
I'm okay with everything else tho. ;D
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: finicu on September 24, 2014, 01:51:32 AM
Oh hell no, no, NOT RELIGIONS... Everything else BUT religions... >:( :(
The game will have hell break loose. Everyone will go something like " Ooooh, why ain't my religion in game, why do those stinking tribals have to be atheists, while only the "good guys" get to be atheists?" <-- Same thing for christians and so... people will begin to blame the game, and just have the atheist and christian argument over and over again spammed on the forums.
The only way i could agree with religions it was if they were randomly generated. Then YES. :)
I'm okay with everything else tho. ;D
:D :D :D :D :D :D
I agree no religons it would make the game too complicated and we dont want this to become a religous argument fourm, we have been doing a great job at being nice. I say yes to everything but religon as well
I do think this is a good idea! If religion was implemented, it would simply have to be a vauge subject. For example, a "mission statement" could simply be >Religious< rather than any specific religion. This would simply require a time of rest/prayer in order to improve mood, or some other requirement.
Much fitting to the create-your-own-story theme, one can imagine their own religion and finally rationalize their need for canabalistic, nudist colonies with its in-game religion!
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
Warning: This will be complex and or confusing (mostly because English is my third language, sorry)
Frankly, I wouldn't accept a bribe (300 silvers) to be friendly towards another colony and I specially wouldn't send my people just because they gave me some silvers, so why would other colony accept it too?
If you landed on a world in the middle of nowhere, yes you would. Especially if you have the ability to trade.
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
So I read somewhere in the change log that other colonist are located in the map somewhere, and this suggestions have something to do with that.
Here is my idea in a nutshell, I think we should be able to make allies and enemies not just by trading silvers.
If Colony A (C-A) and my colony hates Colony B, and C-A is outmatched via population, weapons, and low defense, then wouldn't it make sense for my colony and C-A to be allies? Assuming our missions statement (can't think of another word) does not contradicts.
The enemy of your enemy is only your friend in times of war. Don't expect them to not try to burn your crops or steal your food right after a siege.
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
That is another suggestions. Each colony should have missions statements. Maybe there should be a list of things we can pick and our colony will abide it, example:
-Religion preference (not going to church- lower mood)
-Religion we hate (If C-B have a religion that we hate, then we will be enemies
As someone who blogs about this, religion is an
obscenely touchy topic. He would have to make up a bunch of religions (like what Runescape did), as well as add in a ton of combinations (Religion A Moderate, Religion A Extremist, Religion A On the verge of conversion, etc). And, as someone above pointed out, Protestants might get offended if Protestantism isn't in game, same with Mormonism, Janism, Rastafarianism, Pastafarianism, I can keep going for the next few hours, so I won't. That and some of us might not want it at all, since we're sick of seeing stuff about it on the news. If this were in the game, it would almost have to be optional, and it would probably offend everybody because "Tynan doesn't know about Discordianism! This offends me!"
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
-Do we care about environment? (chopping too much trees will give negative mood)
What about having tree farms? Would we get a negative moodlet just because we harvested our 40x40 growing zone dedicated to poplar trees?
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
We have to pick 3 mission statements that will give us bad mood if we don't abide, 2 good mission statements that will only help us, and 2 missions statements we hate.
Part of the story here is that none of your colonists want to stay on the RimWorld. I don't think it would make sense within the context of the game to have a mission statement that isn't just "Let's all get off of here."
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
Now back to diplomacy. If C-A believes in Religion A (R-A) and my colony believes in R-B, then it's possible for us to be allies (unless C-A hates R-B), but it would take longer.
(maybe make up a religion so it doesn't offend people).
How often do you see two religious extremists from different religions like eachother? You'd both have to be religious moderates in order for this to work.
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
Another example; If C-A cares about the environment and my colony doesn't, then C-A might not want to be our allies, if it's the opposite, then I guess it's up to you to decide if you want to be allied with them.
No problems with this. Makes some sense. I just don't like the caring about the environment idea, since it
might be random, and my colonists go crazy enough already.
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
If C-A realized that my colony outmatched him, then there is a low chance of them attacking us, and the chance of attacking increases and decreases depending on our missions statements.
The chance of sieging at night would probably increase. Or just random theft of your stuff at night without a warning.
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
Trading, and not just by item to silver, but rather item to item.
Intergalactic trade ships aren't interested in bartering, I'm pretty sure.
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
Trading is a big part of this game, because not everything is unlimited.
If C-B (our enemy) is about to attack C-A (our ally), then we should be able to trade, maybe I will give you some of my weapons if you give me some of your med kits (or something fair).
I do think we should be able to trade with neighboring colonies.
Quote from: dotsnake on September 18, 2014, 07:33:39 PM
Alright, I hope I didn't confuse you, If you have any ideas to add to my suggestions, do not hesitate to reply. TY wanted us to feel emotions towards every person that we have, but I also want to include other colonies, because It's not as fun fighting mindless AI than fighting a colony that truly believes on its mission statements. (I still can't think of a word better than mission statement) Thanks for reading.
It didn't confuse me. I've been speaking with people who know broken English for years. I wish I had the patience to sit down and learn a new language, so keep on trying!
Quote from: Materialjam on September 28, 2014, 05:32:47 AM
I do think this is a good idea! If religion was implemented, it would simply have to be a vauge subject. For example, a "mission statement" could simply be >Religious< rather than any specific religion. This would simply require a time of rest/prayer in order to improve mood, or some other requirement.
Much fitting to the create-your-own-story theme, one can imagine their own religion and finally rationalize their need for canabalistic, nudist colonies with its in-game religion!
Being able to
make your own religion would be kind of cool, I'll bite. Converting people to Canibonudism would be fun as hell.
I disagree with religion, personally. Not because of real-life complications as that can be avoided by using fictional religions. But rather because IMO, I think religion as a focal point for conflict and relationship and as a mission statement is more of a medieval ideology as opposed to a future/sci fi kind.
I think different mission statements should be used, but not necessarily that religion shouldn't be one. I just don't think it should be the base case. For example, I think of Fallout: New Vegas. The Kings of the strip didn't necessarily have a religion, nor did NCR, nor did the Legion. Mercenary factions didn't. They all had their own purpose, their own goals and beliefs, but it wasn't necessarily religion for all of them.
Rather I think it should be for:
- The pursuit of trade/economy.
- The pursuit of militaristic prowess (branching off into domination/dictatorship [a la FO:NV's Legion] or security/patrol/defense [a la FO:NV's NCR].
- The pursuit of religious belief.
- The pursuit of greater technology (research).
- The pursuit of happiness (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xzU9Qqdqww).
And so on and so forth. But hey, that's my pocket change on the subject at least.
Lot of thought was put into that, but personally I don't really like a lot of it or think it makes much sense to be in the game. No offense is intended by that, but I think diplomacy needs to be handled very differently.
I mean think about it, your saying pick a 'mission statement' or similarly a 'colony philosophy' of some kind. The problem is that your colony technically was formed out of necessity by a bunch of crashed survivors who really don't want to be there anyway. A mission statement really would be one of the last things on their mind. Raiders, well their philosophy is pretty obvious, and if that's the case then outlander towns might just be adopting the philosophy of survival still against such an oppressive force. Tribal, the socio-communicative/cultural barrier between you would probably be so great that neither of you are technically able to decipher a meaning from your set philosophies.
This bleeds into the idea of religion because what are your colonies made out of? A mish-mash of crashed survivors, refugees, travellers, criminals, raiders who come from all walks of life and colourful backgrounds. Their not going to have a set religion, maybe an individual might have one but I would imagine most just live day to day lives. A set religion amongst the more advance towns like the outlander towns and outlaw towns whom are descendants from crashed/landed spacer's themselves probably wouldn't exist either. You might be lucky to find some semblance of a pagan religion amongst the tribal towns, but if you did it certainly wouldn't be considered an organised religion more like stories told and passed down to their children through word of mouth about how they came to be or how the world was created. Kinda like dream-time stories almost.
I mean C. Fenderson covered a lot of this I just felt like elaborating.
Global InteractionDiplomacy should have more interaction than just the comms console. How many times have we seen a group passing through the area, or a single person travelling. Perhaps there should be an option to respond to some of these events:
-When a traveller or a travelling group is wandering by have the option to invite them to the colony to rest and resupply. (outcome; they return to their town and tell stories of your hospitality. |+opinion|)
-When an neutral/allied person gets incapacitated you can have the option to save them by taking them to a medical bed. (outcome; Gratitude, the person returns telling the colony how they were saved by the doctors at <player colony>. |+opinion|+reward of silver maybe|)
-Make it so that other towns won't visit your colony unless they have a 60+ opinion of you. If a traveller or a group of travellers comes to your town to visit you have have the option to turn them away and refuse hospitality. It will cost you opinion though, making the colony dislike you a bit more. You might do this if your running low on food. (outcome; they return to their town and tell stories of your rudeness. |-opinion|)
We already have events whereby if you attempt to kidnap or attack a neutral person their colony will call this an act of war. So why not have actions were we can improve relations by being especially kind?
ConsoleWhen trading (in console) you should have the opinion to give them resources, not just silver. Silver could be a base about that never changes, 300 silver for 11 opinion. But you could also have the option to give them resources and this would vary depending on what they are desperate for at the time. If they have mountains of metal, giving them 300 metal will probably only give you 2 opinion. But if they are desperate for food/borderline starvation giving them 300 food might boost their opinion by 25 or more.
Trading silver for resources could also be a thing among towns, though it should always be the case that towns will only be willing to trade you a limited supply if any and trade ships will carry resources in quantity. So towns might only be willing to buy 100 potatoes maximum, or have a budget of 100 silver. Limiting trade between towns to a crawl. You could also request resources from them, to help you through tough times. Depending on the level of social as to your success chance. It will in any case cost you opinion to request resources to spare.
Towns might also try and contact you, if that happens you need to send a colonist to your comm console to receive the call. If you miss the call then that town might loose a tiny bit of opinion of you, something like -3. They could call for all sorts of reasons;
-To give you resources because they like you. (You get free stuffz!)
-To request a trade. (accept or reject their opinion is unchanged)
-To ask for resources. (gives them an increased opinion of you)
-To call for military aid. (not sure how this would work but eh)
-To simply chat and see how your colony fairs. (A troll call)
Town typesIt might also be the case that the type of town your talking with also determines what they value most. For example an outlander town might value silver far more than a tribal town which doesn't value it at all. They might also react differently according to how much they like you. If they don't like you much they might be more incline to turn town your offers of hospitality, or ignore your requests for aid.
You should be able to buy peace with the raider colonies. Pay them tribute as a means of maintaining peace.
Quote from: TinnedEpic on September 30, 2014, 03:40:38 AM
Lot of thought was put into that, but personally I don't really like a lot of it or think it makes much sense to be in the game. No offense is intended by that, but I think diplomacy needs to be handled very differently.
I mean think about it, your saying pick a 'mission statement' or similarly a 'colony philosophy' of some kind. The problem is that your colony technically was formed out of necessity by a bunch of crashed survivors who really don't want to be there anyway. A mission statement really would be one of the last things on their mind. Raiders, well their philosophy is pretty obvious, and if that's the case then outlander towns might just be adopting the philosophy of survival still against such an oppressive force. Tribal, the socio-communicative/cultural barrier between you would probably be so great that neither of you are technically able to decipher a meaning from your set philosophies.
This bleeds into the idea of religion because what are your colonies made out of? A mish-mash of crashed survivors, refugees, travellers, criminals, raiders who come from all walks of life and colourful backgrounds. Their not going to have a set religion, maybe an individual might have one but I would imagine most just live day to day lives. A set religion amongst the more advance towns like the outlander towns and outlaw towns whom are descendants from crashed/landed spacer's themselves probably wouldn't exist either. You might be lucky to find some semblance of a pagan religion amongst the tribal towns, but if you did it certainly wouldn't be considered an organised religion more like stories told and passed down to their children through word of mouth about how they came to be or how the world was created. Kinda like dream-time stories almost.
I mean C. Fenderson covered a lot of this I just felt like elaborating.
Not necessarily. Speaking in regards to your idea of mission statements not being viable is not necessarily true. Mission statements just aren't formed when one group splits from another.
Yes, it's not going to be at the top of the mind of the colonists. After all, if I fall out of the sky on a world I don't know, I'm not going to focus on "Should my new life be centered around military dominance or just making bank". But let's think a little bit in terms of on In Character perspective of the colonists and how things go.
A colonist wakes up and without knowing what's going on, escapes in an escape pod. Along with 2 others, a colonists lands on an unknown world with a few starting supplies and no escape. Without knowing if they can even build something to escape, considering that they don't know the resources around them or how to build a ship (hence the research), they're put into a position where they have to start a colony. Now, unless you're speedrunning the game for endgame, a few months to years could elapse before you actually reach that ship being completely built. In this time you'll have colonists who have build large scale bases, acquired new friends and colonists, received more gear, murdered others, etc etc. It's during that time where surely at least one colonist says "What if we never get out of here?". After building all this and going from 3 people with little supplies to making a super fortress and an army of colonists, it grows on people. In a weird way, the new colony is their home. They built it. They made it to what it is. During this time, with no idea if they will ever leave this place, some might consider this new colony just their new life and new home. That's where mission statements can be born. If people are sure that they'll live here now, surely they'd want to focus resources and management instead of free-forming it. That's where mission statements come in.
Mission statements are formed typically by groups of people with the same ideology's. Other times it may be forced via political power or militaristic power. Mission statements are not out of place. Surely they're not the first thing on a colonists mind, but it's similar to the fact that after awhile of playing, it asks you what you want to name the colony. Over time, these things come up.
NPC's can have mission statements generated for them, obviously. A raider group and the tribes people probably have similar mission statements. But in the same way that the game tends to spawn these factions each time, they could generate their mission statements accordingly. In regards to your point about the tribal and the socio-communicative/cultural between player colony and them, keep in mind that despite this fact, we can still call them on the console, that they somehow have, and communicate with them that way. If all this logic was put in game mechanic wise, then surely the only way we'd be able to even attempt at talking with tribal people is to visit them personally and hope that the miscommunication face to face doesn't cause a conflict.
Religion is a bad choice, you're right. It's not fitting and has a lot of complications. But that doesn't mean a group can't or shouldn't have some sort of higher thought or goal or beliefs. Some sort of reason or motivation for the decisions they're doing, considering that it might not always be "escape".
QuoteGlobal Interaction
Diplomacy should have more interaction than just the comms console. How many times have we seen a group passing through the area, or a single person travelling. Perhaps there should be an option to respond to some of these events:
-When a traveller or a travelling group is wandering by have the option to invite them to the colony to rest and resupply. (outcome; they return to their town and tell stories of your hospitality. |+opinion|)
-When an neutral/allied person gets incapacitated you can have the option to save them by taking them to a medical bed. (outcome; Gratitude, the person returns telling the colony how they were saved by the doctors at <player colony>. |+opinion|+reward of silver maybe|)
-Make it so that other towns won't visit your colony unless they have a 60+ opinion of you. If a traveller or a group of travellers comes to your town to visit you have have the option to turn them away and refuse hospitality. It will cost you opinion though, making the colony dislike you a bit more. You might do this if your running low on food. (outcome; they return to their town and tell stories of your rudeness. |-opinion|)
We already have events whereby if you attempt to kidnap or attack a neutral person their colony will call this an act of war. So why not have actions were we can improve relations by being especially kind?
I completely agree.
QuoteConsole
When trading (in console) you should have the opinion to give them resources, not just silver. Silver could be a base about that never changes, 300 silver for 11 opinion. But you could also have the option to give them resources and this would vary depending on what they are desperate for at the time. If they have mountains of metal, giving them 300 metal will probably only give you 2 opinion. But if they are desperate for food/borderline starvation giving them 300 food might boost their opinion by 25 or more.
Trading silver for resources could also be a thing among towns, though it should always be the case that towns will only be willing to trade you a limited supply if any and trade ships will carry resources in quantity. So towns might only be willing to buy 100 potatoes maximum, or have a budget of 100 silver. Limiting trade between towns to a crawl. You could also request resources from them, to help you through tough times. Depending on the level of social as to your success chance. It will in any case cost you opinion to request resources to spare.
Towns might also try and contact you, if that happens you need to send a colonist to your comm console to receive the call. If you miss the call then that town might loose a tiny bit of opinion of you, something like -3. They could call for all sorts of reasons;
-To give you resources because they like you. (You get free stuffz!)
-To request a trade. (accept or reject their opinion is unchanged)
-To ask for resources. (gives them an increased opinion of you)
-To call for military aid. (not sure how this would work but eh)
-To simply chat and see how your colony fairs. (A troll call)
Also completely agree.
QuoteTown types
It might also be the case that the type of town your talking with also determines what they value most. For example an outlander town might value silver far more than a tribal town which doesn't value it at all. They might also react differently according to how much they like you. If they don't like you much they might be more incline to turn town your offers of hospitality, or ignore your requests for aid.
You should be able to buy peace with the raider colonies. Pay them tribute as a means of maintaining peace.
And again, I agree.
I agree with pretty much everything you said, I just don't think the idea of mission statements or a colony-wise goal or focal point is out of place. It's actually quite common and could add more depth. Within limits of course. A colony that values trade doesn't necessarily mean that they cant like a colony that values military prowess, it just means that the trade colony is more concerned about trade than they are of maintaining a military strength (not removing the idea of military completely from them, just not as big as a concern).
Potentially meaning peaceful colonies that avoid arming and conflict.
Obviously such a thing would need to be balanced so it doesn't impact too heavily, but it can also provide extra depth to the interactions between colonies.
Quote from: Ink. on September 30, 2014, 01:33:49 PM
Not necessarily. Speaking in regards to your idea of mission statements not being viable is not necessarily true. Mission statements just aren't formed when one group splits from another.
Yes, it's not going to be at the top of the mind of the colonists. After all, if I fall out of the sky on a world I don't know, I'm not going to focus on "Should my new life be centered around military dominance or just making bank". But let's think a little bit in terms of on In Character perspective of the colonists and how things go.
A colonist wakes up and without knowing what's going on, escapes in an escape pod. Along with 2 others, a colonists lands on an unknown world with a few starting supplies and no escape. Without knowing if they can even build something to escape, considering that they don't know the resources around them or how to build a ship (hence the research), they're put into a position where they have to start a colony. Now, unless you're speedrunning the game for endgame, a few months to years could elapse before you actually reach that ship being completely built. In this time you'll have colonists who have build large scale bases, acquired new friends and colonists, received more gear, murdered others, etc etc. It's during that time where surely at least one colonist says "What if we never get out of here?". After building all this and going from 3 people with little supplies to making a super fortress and an army of colonists, it grows on people. In a weird way, the new colony is their home. They built it. They made it to what it is. During this time, with no idea if they will ever leave this place, some might consider this new colony just their new life and new home. That's where mission statements can be born. If people are sure that they'll live here now, surely they'd want to focus resources and management instead of free-forming it. That's where mission statements come in.
Mission statements are formed typically by groups of people with the same ideology's. Other times it may be forced via political power or militaristic power. Mission statements are not out of place. Surely they're not the first thing on a colonists mind, but it's similar to the fact that after awhile of playing, it asks you what you want to name the colony. Over time, these things come up.
NPC's can have mission statements generated for them, obviously. A raider group and the tribes people probably have similar mission statements. But in the same way that the game tends to spawn these factions each time, they could generate their mission statements accordingly. In regards to your point about the tribal and the socio-communicative/cultural between player colony and them, keep in mind that despite this fact, we can still call them on the console, that they somehow have, and communicate with them that way. If all this logic was put in game mechanic wise, then surely the only way we'd be able to even attempt at talking with tribal people is to visit them personally and hope that the miscommunication face to face doesn't cause a conflict.
Religion is a bad choice, you're right. It's not fitting and has a lot of complications. But that doesn't mean a group can't or shouldn't have some sort of higher thought or goal or beliefs. Some sort of reason or motivation for the decisions they're doing, considering that it might not always be "escape".
When you put it like that I can definitely see your point. Over time a selection of goal might be an idea, but I'm still a bit iffy myself on the own idea from a personal standpoint. You could potentially choose to live a peaceful life, but then go off and kill everything that moves in your territory. Least this is how I am interoperating it. It's one of the balancing issues that would need to be overcome, how often could people change these statements if at all?
Quote from: Ink. on September 30, 2014, 01:33:49 PM
I agree with pretty much everything you said, I just don't think the idea of mission statements or a colony-wise goal or focal point is out of place. It's actually quite common and could add more depth. Within limits of course. A colony that values trade doesn't necessarily mean that they cant like a colony that values military prowess, it just means that the trade colony is more concerned about trade than they are of maintaining a military strength (not removing the idea of military completely from them, just not as big as a concern).
Potentially meaning peaceful colonies that avoid arming and conflict.
Obviously such a thing would need to be balanced so it doesn't impact too heavily, but it can also provide extra depth to the interactions between colonies.
It'd be similar in some sense to Galactic civilizations whereby races prefer to hold onto unique technologies and weapons tech purely because they are wary of giving you tools which could be used to destroy them. If we go down that line of thinking then we could easily say that your actions could write a colonial 'reputation'. For example, maintaining good relations with a particular town for an extended period of time would earn you a 'Historic friendship' or as you say 'peaceful colony' kind of buff which increases their opinion of you. Food for thought that instead of choosing a mission statement, your actions write one for you based of what you do most and how you choose to interact with other towns.
Quote
Food for thought that instead of choosing a mission statement, your actions write one for you based of what you do most and how you choose to interact with other towns.
Although the mission statement idea was growing for me, i kinda like this better