Suggestion for Windows
Abstract:
I think windows could be a great addition to the game. Especially if they add happiness and require a view. This would force bases to be more open and gives the enemies more options to attack the base.
Concept:
A window is built like a wall or door. For attack defense purposes it is similar to a sandbag except it might be able to stop the first round (to break the glass).
The colonists should really like to look outside and should feel trapped when they are in a position where they can’t see the outside for too long.
The window should give a larger bonus depending on the “viewâ€. The more cells without anything in it (like walls or rocks) should increase the bonus. When people can see wildlife (for example boomrats, muffalos or cacti) from their windows the bonus should be even larger.
Sandbags should not reduce the view though still a bit. The view requirement should be rather large like 40 or even more squares to get a high bonus.
If implemented this could really force players to think of different base and defense designs and make building the base in the middle of a plains an advantage.
Personally I don’t like mining that much. I have spent a couple of days in a copper mine and I have to say it get really depressing not seeing outside. Also when watching the pre alpha trailer the gameplay seemed to be more focused on being outside instead of living like a dwarf in an underground fortress.
Thans you very much for Reading my idea
Why is everyone so hell-bent on making people build their bases in a manner which is suicidally easy for the raiders to break into?
This is not a suburban cul-de-sac, nor is it an Appalachian mining town or a big city.
This is an unplanned settlement on the border worlds, under constant attack by armed maniacs whose only goal is to murder you and everyone you like.
Screw having lovely views of the plains, you know what I'd find aesthetically pleasing and not-depressing in such an environment? Machine guns mounted on top of guard towers, sandbags and barbed wire, searchlights cutting through the night, snipers (of my own) up on top of the mountain ready to rain death down on the dumb bastards who always congregate in the lowlands, and maybe a few artillery pieces ranged in to fill the natural and artificial choke-points with hellfire and shrapnel.
Dear shadow
Even though I agree with you with that it is nice to blow stuff up and create choke point I think that by forcing the player to be a bit more open the game gets more interesting. Creating a chokepoint and have all the enemies dies there without some challenge is for me not that interesting.
Overpowering the enemy is in my opinion not a very elegant option as that turns the enemy into a endless horde (and why would they attack you if they could life a life you like)
Quote from: ShadowDragon8685 on November 06, 2013, 12:06:24 PM
Why is everyone so hell-bent on making people build their bases in a manner which is suicidally easy for the raiders to break into?
This is not a suburban cul-de-sac, nor is it an Appalachian mining town or a big city.
This is an unplanned settlement on the border worlds, under constant attack by armed maniacs whose only goal is to murder you and everyone you like.
Screw having lovely views of the plains, you know what I'd find aesthetically pleasing and not-depressing in such an environment? Machine guns mounted on top of guard towers, sandbags and barbed wire, searchlights cutting through the night, snipers (of my own) up on top of the mountain ready to rain death down on the dumb bastards who always congregate in the lowlands, and maybe a few artillery pieces ranged in to fill the natural and artificial choke-points with hellfire and shrapnel.
Then how about this? Window's create natural light, meaning I could toggle my lamps off without them being a drain on my energy reserves, storing said energy for when I might actually need it. It's efficient, it keeps the guns functioning and facilities working.
Besides that option, I have a strong feeling that morale will become an important part of the gameplay anyhow, pleasing your survivors isn't just about keeping them alive (unless they're vat grown test tube babbies), variety of food, their surroundings, and quality of life will also be just as important.
Afterall the worst enemy is the one from within. Don't want your highest trained soldier to snap under pressure and leave when you need him most? Or worse... Start a killing spree inside your settlement.
You know what creates a hell of a morale boost?
Being an embattled minority. Seriously, take a small group, have them under frequent harassment/attack from outside, and they're very likely to knuckle down in the name of kicking the shit out of those outsiders.
Which is another reason those corpses and saw death morale penalties are annoying me. I could see it being bad if someone you like gets killed, but after enough attacks to become thoroughly desensitized, you shouldn't give a good goddamn about enemy corpses or seeing the death of the enemy; especially if you put him in the ground!
Quote from: Sundaysmile on November 06, 2013, 12:42:00 PM
Quote from: ShadowDragon8685 on November 06, 2013, 12:06:24 PM
Why is everyone so hell-bent on making people build their bases in a manner which is suicidally easy for the raiders to break into?
This is not a suburban cul-de-sac, nor is it an Appalachian mining town or a big city.
This is an unplanned settlement on the border worlds, under constant attack by armed maniacs whose only goal is to murder you and everyone you like.
Screw having lovely views of the plains, you know what I'd find aesthetically pleasing and not-depressing in such an environment? Machine guns mounted on top of guard towers, sandbags and barbed wire, searchlights cutting through the night, snipers (of my own) up on top of the mountain ready to rain death down on the dumb bastards who always congregate in the lowlands, and maybe a few artillery pieces ranged in to fill the natural and artificial choke-points with hellfire and shrapnel.
Then how about this? Window's create natural light, meaning I could toggle my lamps off without them being a drain on my energy reserves, storing said energy for when I might actually need it. It's efficient, it keeps the guns functioning and facilities working.
Besides that option, I have a strong feeling that morale will become an important part of the gameplay anyhow, pleasing your survivors isn't just about keeping them alive (unless they're vat grown test tube babbies), variety of food, their surroundings, and quality of life will also be just as important.
Afterall the worst enemy is the one from within. Don't want your highest trained soldier to snap under pressure and leave when you need him most? Or worse... Start a killing spree inside your settlement.
Oh, that would be nice.
Windows along a corridor that looks out to open space and the lights inside turn themselves off when enough light is coming through. Then they turn back on when the sun sets or it starts raining and other weather. Could possibly be a different type of light that hangs over the floor like these + a toggle to force lights on:
(http://img.lightsworld.co.uk/images/products/Endon%20Lighting%20Opal%20Glass%20Chrome%20Flush%20Strip%20Ceiling%20Light_A_L.jpg)
(http://thumbs4.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mErmQNiibWyzfJ7JZp0THjw.jpg)
Quote from: ShadowDragon8685 on November 06, 2013, 12:06:24 PM
Why is everyone so hell-bent on making people build their bases in a manner which is suicidally easy for the raiders to break into?
This is not a suburban cul-de-sac, nor is it an Appalachian mining town or a big city.
This is an unplanned settlement on the border worlds, under constant attack by armed maniacs whose only goal is to murder you and everyone you like.
Screw having lovely views of the plains, you know what I'd find aesthetically pleasing and not-depressing in such an environment? Machine guns mounted on top of guard towers, sandbags and barbed wire, searchlights cutting through the night, snipers (of my own) up on top of the mountain ready to rain death down on the dumb bastards who always congregate in the lowlands, and maybe a few artillery pieces ranged in to fill the natural and artificial choke-points with hellfire and shrapnel.
We want to play a City Builder here, and with options like Phoebe Friendl y at least some people want to build it up.
This is not a Zombie Horror Survival Game.
More importantly, all people need to live and over a period of time they get de-sensitised to stuff.
Create windows and (if you are so concerned about firing raiders) lets have the option to board them when an attack comes.
Or auto-board.
Quote from: starlight on November 07, 2013, 08:19:53 AMWe want to play a City Builder here, and with options like Phoebe Friendly at least some people want to build it up.
Then why is Cassandra throwing
non-stop raids of 16-20 raiders at me? My two biggest challenges are finding the metal to manufacture more equipment racks to toss their craptacular guns on and getting the bodies buried and the sandbags rebuilt before the next bloody wave hits!
QuoteThis is not a Zombie Horror Survival Game.
No, it's worse. Traditional zombies don't have guns, molotov cocktails, or light fires.
It's not a Zombie Horror Survival Game. It's a Borderlands Psycho Survival Horror Game.
QuoteMore importantly, all people need to live and over a period of time they get de-sensitised to stuff.
Create windows and (if you are so concerned about firing raiders) lets have the option to board them when an attack comes.
Or auto-board.
Yes, because inviting them to just break down the boarded-up window instead of forcing them to either go through a sturdy wall or crawl over sandbags is such a fantastic idea. The only reason I'd install windows is to lure them over to the blasting charges.
Quote from: ShadowDragon8685 on November 06, 2013, 03:24:41 PMSeriously, take a small group, have them under frequent harassment/attack from outside, and they're very likely to...
... kill each another over the smallest of things. Also, being restrained to a small space for prolonged measures of time is a serious and dangerous condition. Read up about how they fight with in in submarines, and in this game we don't have professional soldiers that have been trained to survive for years in such conditions.
That being said... even if it was "military super-base building simulator", your argumentation is simply wrong. It's true windows are a serious threat and heavily weight down on success chances - for raiders. Buildings provide a large area of manoeuvrability with zero visibility from the outside - for an attacker that is on open ground - in desert, so REALLY open ground - this is a catastrophe. To get inside, a assault soldiers need to cover hundreds of meters while being perfectly visible and with no suitable cover. At the same time defenders are greatly protected, their moves are invisible to the enemy and they themselves have perfect visibility.
You know what else there is in a desert surrounding a mountain? A perfect opportunity to get your ass sniped off by a sniper you didn't see concealed on the mountain. But until we get concealment mechanics and Z-levels to give our snipers a height advantage, that doesn't really matter, since the damn raider snipers will always trade fire with your guys.
There's also a lot more raiders than there are colonists, both in an immediate and in an overarching sense. With the raiders having that advantage, and the advantage of all being super-experts at murdering people and not caring if they all get slaughtered just as long as they kill one of mine, is it any wonder that I'd quite frankly rather lure them all into an ambush than trade fire over open terrain?
And what is just perfect for ambushes? Windows! Seriously, even in medieval times it was a sound strategy. And again, with the ball on side of raiders in numbers, there is absolutely no reason to throw away a solid advantage in terrain. As for snipers, again, better off with windows. He takes out one guy through a window, rest can get to cover right away. Much more sound tactic would be to take them off while they are off in the field, when they can't get to cover easily.
I'm afraid your arguments on strategic value of windows are simply wrong. Take a minute to read about that or even better - go visit some nearby fortifications, and you'll know what I mean.
Medieval windows had certain advantages, though. For one thing, they tended to be up high, so a jackass with a sword couldn't run up to them and stab you when you were shooting out of them. For another, they were far too narrow for said jackass to jump through. They were also very narrow from the outside, whilst funneling widely inside, permitting the shooter inside to have a maximum field of fire whilst making return fire nearly impossible and making somebody breaking through said window absolutely impossible.
They were also made of stuff that was strong enough that a grenade wouldn't go through it, or set it on fire.
Quote from: ShadowDragon8685 on November 06, 2013, 03:24:41 PM
You know what creates a hell of a morale boost?
Being an embattled minority. Seriously, take a small group, have them under frequent harassment/attack from outside, and they're very likely to knuckle down in the name of kicking the shit out of those outsiders.
Which is another reason those corpses and saw death morale penalties are annoying me. I could see it being bad if someone you like gets killed, but after enough attacks to become thoroughly desensitized, you shouldn't give a good goddamn about enemy corpses or seeing the death of the enemy; especially if you put him in the ground!
Lol, youve been watching too many American films ;).
A small group constantly getting harrased and attacked.. How could that possibly boost morale? Your freinds are dieing or dead, your possibly next and theirs what seems to be an endless horde of maniacs trying to get in and kill you. The constant sound of gunshots and explosions. People screaming. Mind games. Sleep depravation. You know what happens when you have sleep deprevation?
As for desensitizing, how come theres thousands of soldiers from wars who need councelling? Infact why even get trained to mental breaking point in the first place? The point your colonists become 'desensitized' is when they go crazy and start killing everyone.
Anyway, back on topic :). It would be nice to have shooting holes in your walls, or say metal sliding windows than can be opened or closed and even locked for that matter.
Quote from: Produno on November 07, 2013, 04:48:38 PMAnyway, back on topic :). It would be nice to have shooting holes in your walls, or say metal sliding windows than can be opened or closed and even locked for that matter.
Hahaha, I love how you just rendered the whole "breaking in through windows" problem in one fell swoop after all my rhetorics :D Thumbs up, the more things we can click and watch change slightly the better! :)
What about barred windows? Loopholes? Bulletproof glass walls/windows?
What's the issue? Why not give the opportunity to make windows. And let the player choose what to do with it.
If someone wants to put a window in his outer wall for a raider to break through then that's bad design. If someone wants windows to his inner courtyard then by all means give him the option! A window would be like a wall that lets light fall in when undamaged, damaged it would be like a sandbag. Should be easy enough to build.
Heck deckchairs and garden gnomes would be a good idea if it helps people get immersed into the experience... ;)
The game isn't just about survival, at a certain point it's about thriving and the experience of a story about settling on an alien world. Those who pick Phoebe as a story teller will enjoy this immensely. Those who pick cassandra hard might be more interested in a continuous raider assault.
The point is just because something is pointless to one player doesn't make it pointless to the next player!
Definitely like the idea of windows. Maybe different types of windows, i.e. gun slits which provide no happiness benefit but provide very good cover.
I wouldn't mind Glass windows could make em take the whole tile like a full window or make them half windows so they have to crawl but then it be more work to make the glass and wall part have there own HP.
Not sure about gun windows maybe if there a lot weaker then walls.
Loop-Holes, AKA arrow slits are a good idea and commonly found in old-west type fortifications. There should be some physical way that they should be able to protect themselves beyond sand bags or peeking out from around corners. Walls are pretty easily breached in this game so I don't think its too-uber.
As far as natural light; Skylights or Sola-Tubes.
Many have already said it but there should be an easy way to have ceiling mounted lighting.
Quote from: Aisomasu on November 08, 2013, 05:35:02 AM
What about barred windows? Loopholes? Bulletproof glass walls/windows?
we would be happy about bulletproof walls and sandbags :(
+1 this suggestion, I was going to suggest it but it's been suggested already. Phoebe FTW!
I love the idea of having windows, so the colonist can shoot through them-- maybe some variations like a shooting hole or just normal windows- or bullet proof cristal walls. you know for that science fiction look we all want to give our bases
Great ideeas. Also add fences Raiders could jump these fences, having an 1,5 second animation and so. But they would be verry helpful. And make the windows be from different matterials, such as Normal Glass, Buletproof, With Wooden Bars, With Steel Bars etc. They could break the window which you could repair but they can not enter into the building unless they break the bars which is of course much harder to brake like 1/2 of the normal material toughness. :D
gonna necro this thread to not make another one:
i'd also like to see windows. many biomes have a lot of daylight, so i'd rather have windows than having to make lamps.
Just get the base code in there and one simple window. Let the modders have at it. It really is mod territory cuzz not everyone is going to even bother using them so we'd have an entire UI full of windows collecting dust in many cases and all that work creating them just "poof"...
But this topic does come up often enough to warrant some effort imo. (I'm no programmer so have no clue how trying it would be to get it done)
For what it's worth...
Buildings in this game really need windows. They should come in ad least two types, normal windows to allow daylight in to buildings, and gun slits so bunkers can be constructed .
In fact I think bunkers made that way should replace gun turrets in early game as main defense installation. Automated turrets is something that seems too advanced for early game and should probably be pushed later in the tech tree as something that has to be invented. Until then colonist would use buildings with gun slits to protect themselves.
Man, forget windows, I'm all for firing slits in fortified walls so you can build proper bunkers. The game is already set up to deal effectively with it anyway, and like the guy above me said, it can replace gun turrets for the early and mid game.
Rimworld seems to already be about risky combat where the only way to win is dig the hell in and be smarter on the defensive. Impassable firing slits means more firefights between pawns, instead of brainless enemy zerg rushes which require killzone turret courtyards to counter because you can't take the attrition of fighting even slightly fair against uncaring NPC hordes. Every single enemy attack would be with sappers, but thats ok because you can respond by having multiple bunkers set up in key areas....instead of getting pissy about enemy sappers going around the single killzone your energy infrastructure can afford to be running.
No more turret killzones and gigantic walls around every single colony in order to funnel enemies there. Instead you'd be able to put down bunkers in key locations where enemies spawn or path, and rush to man them. Melee fighters, to some degree, acquire greater usefulness in being able to defend gaps that raiders blow in the bunker wall while everyone else keeps firing.
You'd have to put your colonists in harms way, but it won't feel unfair because the risk would be so much less. But the risk would still be there, as opposed to what I do now, which is ensure that every enemy walks directly into a hellish wall made of completely disposable gun turrets and malicious laughter.
Well lotsa people would like that but doubt it will ever happen in the base game anyways. There's just no great way to balance walls you can fire through. Even if the enemy was smart enough to run up and shoot back at you.... melee enemies would be completely ineffective. As if they need any more help at sucking ;) Besides, there's alot you can do with walls and sandbags already with a lil imagination(maybe too much actually).
Although, back on topic, why couldn't you use windows as "slits" in walls? Seems reasonable to me to use them as dual purpose. They'd just have to expand on the AI a bit so they'd know they can shoot back through it. (nevermind, there would still be the issue with melee baddies being useless.)
Embrasures ("medieval windows") and light-bringing windows are rather different. Embrasures would act like better sandbags combined with vents, while the original post was talking about glass windows to get light into rooms without losing enclosure (save on energy, don't lose out on heat).
I'd rather see glass windows than embrasures, but I'd like to see both. The former would finally provide a good reason to actually have rooms near the outdoors and the latter would finally make the melee rushes (where raiders/animals just climb over my sandbags) less ridiculous.