I'm sorry if this has been suggested somewhere, but visually something bugs me
Now, i like the Textures of the freshly mined wall; it does look like its meant to be natural; however, when i am building my base in or around mountains, there are times i don't want to build a wall on every face, and the wobbly texture starts to annoy me. We already have smooth stone floors, so why not add in the options to smooth out rock walls. Maybe it only minimally reduces ugly environment mood penalty, or not at all, but i would just like the option for my own personal aesthetics haha.
Thoorrriiinnn Smooothenstooone!
(Don't ask! I'm excited! I want smooth stone walls, too)
I second this.
Since Beauty is kind of important now and rough stone walls give a -1 penalty, an option to smooth them just like the floors would be very appreciated.
Not even going to read OP's post. I read the title and that's all I needed to read to be on board with this. Smooth stone walls +1!
add both things... stone wall smoothing, and stone wall carving, also for the floor.
as in dorf fortress you can carve decorations in the walls it takes a lot longer but the resoults are amazing, would be made by an artist, the same for the floor.
^^ thats a really rad idea.
also of note, there was a mod for this in alpha 9, though carving wasnt part of it but thats a really cool idea...
+1
Her is the mod that did this in Alpha 9, though it generally got unnoticed. Maybe someone who is better at modding could run with it. The original poster only ever posted that one thing.
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=12185
Quote from: Renham on April 22, 2015, 01:17:22 AM
add both things... stone wall smoothing, and stone wall carving, also for the floor.
as in dorf fortress you can carve decorations in the walls it takes a lot longer but the resoults are amazing, would be made by an artist, the same for the floor.
This is exactly what I was trying to avoid. :-[
I understand that Rimworld is
somewhat inspired by DF, however, warp- (or, at least, space-) age humans are not fantasy dwarves. Carving art and poems into walls and floors - in essence, the dwarf equivalent of cave painting - may seem appropriate and worthwhile in that culture, yet the functional significance of it is rather dubious and, given that citizens of a space-faring culture are more likely to put value in functionality, science and
getting back into space, it seems quite unnecessary and inefficient. If anything, humans (if they are planning to stay for a long, long time) would smooth the walls and then hang up paintings and other decorations (that they are able to remove and take with them onto a ship later) to bring value and beauty up. Carving art into walls is permanent and implies the desire to stay - not just on that planet, but in that cave.. The desire to make and preserve history - hence the 'Fortress' in DF.
I
personally am for smoothing, but against carving.
However, this is a design decision mostly based on
vision and the only one who can know for sure whether this is worth implementing in the long run or not is, probably, Tynan.
EDIT: There is (at least) one technicality to consider here: are the stone walls (rough stone squares) currently treated as one monolithic block or do they have four sides? If they are treated as one block, do we close our eyes on the fact that smoothing one side smooths them all, or is (potentially expensive) refactoring necessary to add sides to all squares and handle them separately?
im pretty sure rock walls are cell divided. if not, then alot of effort was put into making them not, and it was probably a waste of said effort.
as to carvings an painting, i want all the things. You should consider the fact that while your stories are about humans that want to get back into space, not everyone elses will be. More options is always good in this kind of game.
Quote from: rexx1888 on April 23, 2015, 02:25:33 AM
as to carvings an painting, i want all the things. You should consider the fact that while your stories are about humans that want to get back into space, not everyone elses will be. More options is always good in this kind of game.
Yes, but how much dev time are we (they? him?) willing to put in to achieve a
true sandbox, where possibilities for a colony are near-limitless? Are we going for replicating the
minimum of features already existing in a similar game?.. Or is it something different conceptually? Like I said, it's kind of a vision / design question. I'm slightly new to the process, so I'd like to
understand. My original suggestion still stands, though.
My support for this, come that I'm hoping Rimworld to have different ending hook (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=11275.msg112541#msg112541), one of them being related to "beauty".
Furthermore, since Rimworld already take beauty into account and a 'smoothened stone wall' isn't a gamebreaking addition (at least at first sight), I think it will make for good content in Rimworld for when Tynan get the time.
I fully support the idea of smoothing or texturing.
By texturing I mean like a pattern, be it wavy or lines or something else.
However, I agree to not have carving in the sense of pictures and stories, that is DF's domain. Plus you have to figure in it seems a bit weird to carve in your story when you are just going to leave the planet anyway, where as in DF you are making a mountainhome and assuming you don't "win" DF, the carvings last generations to tell the story to kids, grandkids, etc!
oh but humans have carved into rocks, to tell a story, or leave a message, with no intent on staying. There are numerous such sights along the oregon trail, from the 1800 in the US. Humans have always left a mark of where they have been, and sometimes where they are going.
So, as someone who has never played dwarf fortress, it is not DF domain, but a very logical outgrowth of an artist wanting to leave a message behind.
Quote from: TLHeart on May 02, 2015, 07:43:18 AM
oh but humans have carved into rocks, to tell a story, or leave a message, with no intent on staying. There are numerous such sights along the oregon trail, from the 1800 in the US. Humans have always left a mark of where they have been, and sometimes where they are going.
So, as someone who has never played dwarf fortress, it is not DF domain, but a very logical outgrowth of an artist wanting to leave a message behind.
Yes but aren't we in some kind of super future? How do we know such things have not fallen out of a social etiquette by then, hmmmmm? I am just saying I want the rock walls to look better if they are mine and I use them as walls. I just think the stories thing is too far into what DF does because each world would need a plethora of event tracking upon the creation of said world.
Quote from: TonyKuremento on May 02, 2015, 06:06:31 PM
Quote from: TLHeart on May 02, 2015, 07:43:18 AM
oh but humans have carved into rocks, to tell a story, or leave a message, with no intent on staying. There are numerous such sights along the oregon trail, from the 1800 in the US. Humans have always left a mark of where they have been, and sometimes where they are going.
So, as someone who has never played dwarf fortress, it is not DF domain, but a very logical outgrowth of an artist wanting to leave a message behind.
Yes but aren't we in some kind of super future? How do we know such things have not fallen out of a social etiquette by then, hmmmmm? I am just saying I want the rock walls to look better if they are mine and I use them as walls. I just think the stories thing is too far into what DF does because each world would need a plethora of event tracking upon the creation of said world.
But rimworld is all about the story telling, and leaving a record behind of the colonies story for future people to see fits very well with the backstory.
I'd like my pawns to look at the smooth marble walls and be like "daaaamn, fancy as f...".
+1!
+1
Agreed, but the stone wall carving, I'm not going to go into all the fancy talk, just nah.
+2
Quote from: Veyda on April 22, 2015, 11:44:38 PMI understand that Rimworld is somewhat inspired by DF, however, warp- (or, at least, space-) age humans are not fantasy dwarves. Carving art and poems into walls and floors - in essence, the dwarf equivalent of cave painting - may seem appropriate and worthwhile in that culture, yet the functional significance of it is rather dubious and, given that citizens of a space-faring culture are more likely to put value in functionality, science and getting back into space, it seems quite unnecessary and inefficient. If anything, humans (if they are planning to stay for a long, long time) would smooth the walls and then hang up paintings and other decorations (that they are able to remove and take with them onto a ship later) to bring value and beauty up. Carving art into walls is permanent and implies the desire to stay - not just on that planet, but in that cave.. The desire to make and preserve history - hence the 'Fortress' in DF.
They are
colonists - not crash survivors - even if they got to the ground in a less then perfect way, with less then what they wanted to bring, they are where they intended to be. Don't see why they wouldn't carve into the wall. The 'Taking off in the spaceship' is a place holder as far as I know (the same as the space traveling traders) - it could have just as easily bee 'build a really big temple' or 'burn this much plasteel for the lolz' - it really is just a 'once you have this much excess wealth, you have won'.
Excuse me Mikhail Reign but I must disagree.
Regardless how Tynan decided to call them for simplicity (you weren't gonna keep calling them survivor 10years later), they are crash survivor and not necessarily here for colonization (some have the particular 'title' of Settlers, other don't). To justify that point I can create any amount of logical explanation using Rimworld lore to explain why their spaceship wrecked specifically here.
So it would be inadequate to force unto other the idea that Rimworld is about colonization and none of the 'forced colonist' want to run away from this dangerous place.
Of course it doesn't change one bit that they can want to smooth or carve thing in the wall.
This is something entirely separate and you are entitled to ask for it.
Me all I'm interested in is the "smooth wall", simple and efficient.
the thing is, smooth wall would be a nice addition, that we can choose to do or not do.
so would be carving the wall, for decoration, just like making statues, or for story telling, just like statues. Again, you choose to do it or not. Options, multiple ways to play, is what makes a game replayable.
Carving into stone walls would have problems. How would they carve into walls, how would you know the difference between them, would it carve on one specific face of the wall and how would you make it do that? You're talking about rock, which means it'll likely be in a cave and have sides blocked, if not just the 2 sides connected to other wall parts. You need a table to do everything else, how would you use it for carving stone walls? All in all carved walls would just not really fit. Make pieces of art if you want the beauty, not walls.
Quote from: Z0MBIE2 on May 09, 2015, 01:06:14 PM
Carving into stone walls would have problems. How would they carve into walls, how would you know the difference between them, would it carve on one specific face of the wall and how would you make it do that? You're talking about rock, which means it'll likely be in a cave and have sides blocked, if not just the 2 sides connected to other wall parts. You need a table to do everything else, how would you use it for carving stone walls? All in all carved walls would just not really fit. Make pieces of art if you want the beauty, not walls.
If you can smooth the wall on ONE side, you can also carve a picture into that ONE side. Many people painted and carved directly on the walls of caves, so how does it NOT fit into the story telling of rimworld?
That was one of the discussions here too, how would you make it smooth, would it effect only one side, would it make the whole block smooth even from one side? That's one of the problems.
I suppose...
Suggestion : The smoothing order use a two-case selector, one is the circle where the colonist is standing, the other is the wall. Rotation of the selector done as usual.
Other difficulty might arise, can Tynan code it to allow 2 colonists to work on different face of a block, or at least consecutive work on each side ?
Smooth stone floors and rough rock walls can be pretty beautiful:
http://photos.amazingezone.com/art/amazing-art-work-at-the-stockholm-underground-metro-stations (http://photos.amazingezone.com/art/amazing-art-work-at-the-stockholm-underground-metro-stations)
I might be missing the point, but doesn't building a stone wall inside the cave wall accomplish the same thing you're looking for?
Where I live, people have created houses and stores inside caves for years. They've all required plaster, concrete and/or additional stone walls to support the cave.
To do that you have to mine the natural-wall, turn boulder into brick, then rebuild a wall.
It all depend on how hard you think it should be balanced to make a mountain base pretty.
Quote from: Lerxst on May 11, 2015, 02:12:01 PM
I might be missing the point, but doesn't building a stone wall inside the cave wall accomplish the same thing you're looking for?
Where I live, people have created houses and stores inside caves for years. They've all required plaster, concrete and/or additional stone walls to support the cave.
This
Quote from: Lerxst on May 11, 2015, 02:12:01 PM
I might be missing the point, but doesn't building a stone wall inside the cave wall accomplish the same thing you're looking for?
It accomplishes a
similar result (negating the beauty penalty), but it is not "the same thing".
Firstly, it takes a lot more Work - the rock tile in question has to be Mined out, then the rock chunk needs to be Cut at the stonecutter's table (if you're lucky enough to have researched stonecutting by then), then, finally, the wall needs to be Constructed.
Secondly, we already have
both the Smoothed and the Constructed floors. If Tynan thought that constructing is enough, he would have left Smoothing out entirely. So why not walls too?
Quote from: Veyda on May 11, 2015, 10:33:53 PM
Quote from: Lerxst on May 11, 2015, 02:12:01 PM
I might be missing the point, but doesn't building a stone wall inside the cave wall accomplish the same thing you're looking for?
It accomplishes a similar result (negating the beauty penalty), but it is not "the same thing".
Firstly, it takes a lot more Work - the rock tile in question has to be Mined out, then the rock chunk needs to be Cut at the stonecutter's table (if you're lucky enough to have researched stonecutting by then), then, finally, the wall needs to be Constructed.
Secondly, we already have both the Smoothed and the Constructed floors. If Tynan thought that constructing is enough, he would have left Smoothing out entirely. So why not walls too?
Agreed. It is kind of strange how beauty works ATM. If my memory serves right, even stone (marble, for example) walls have 0 beauty rating, while rock walls (as in the "mined-out-hole") has a negative beauty rating.
Even if smoothing would just increase its beauty to 0, it'd be better than nothing, while (in my opinion at least) walls should have a minimal beauty bonus.
Another point, aside from having to mine/craft/construct said walls: 9*x (where x is equal or more than 9) is the maximum space where two walls can support a roof, any more and the roof collapses. If someone has mined out a 9*x space, he(/she)'d either need to carefully mine out the 10th and 11th lines of walls, leaving single blocks behind to support the roof, or construct additional pillars -if that makes any sense to you folks.
Anyway, it can be extra annoying. ^^