Why is it that when 15 raiders attack me and i kill all of them in my kill box every single colonist in my colony goes absolutely INSANE because they observed the corpse and just leave the colony because they get so insane. WHY!!??
Psychological warfare. ;)
You have to take care of their mental states as well. Make beautiful things, feed them good food, don't over work them, etc.
^ all true, I just wish as the waves get larger and happen fairly frequently that your colonists would become "desensitized" to the situation and no longer suffer the mood penalty.
Aye. You're gonna want a few psychopaths so you can get them hauling and cremating corpses without having your colonists go insane.
observed corpse seem OP atm ...
http://imgur.com/a54kLQ2
i don't know how to clean that.
War is hell man, just watch Rambo 1 :)
- Outdated hotfix, read :
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=8390.msg83605#msg83605
https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=8390.msg83755#msg83755
It's a bug. (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=8236.0)
Quote from: Cimanyd on December 20, 2014, 07:36:44 PM
It's a bug. (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=8236.0)
Observed corpse x3 isn't capped at 3 at all, thats the problem. if there are 22 corpses you get 22 x Observed corpse.
gonna fiddle with "Thoughts_Memories" myself, see if i can get that limit working.
ok weird..
from the original:
-<ThoughtDef>
<defName>ObservedLayingCorpse</defName>
<duration>10000</duration>
<stackedEffectMultiplier>1</stackedEffectMultiplier>
<stackLimit>3</stackLimit>
-<nullifyingTraits>
<li>Psychopath</li>
<li>Bloodlust</li>
</nullifyingTraits>
-<stages>
-<li>
<label>observed corpse</label>
<description>I saw a dead body laying on the ground.</description>
<baseMoodEffect>-2</baseMoodEffect>
</li>
</stages>
</ThoughtDef>
i removed : <stackedEffectMultiplier>1</stackedEffectMultiplier>
and now it's capped at 4 (4x-2 = -8)
<stackLimit>3</stackLimit> only seems to write the text x3 behind observed corpse in thoughts.. so where is it getting this 4 from then?
Added:
so if you remove: <stackedEffectMultiplier>1</stackedEffectMultiplier>
and change :<stackLimit>3</stackLimit> to <stackLimit>4</stackLimit>
then i gues that's a temporary hotfix.
what you put into <baseMoodEffect>-2</baseMoodEffect> is up to you.
It is really a crippling bug for folks that want a long-term colony. Eventually the raids get big. I already lost one to insanity after beating the raiders.
Quote from: jack020 on December 20, 2014, 08:07:34 PM
Quote from: Cimanyd on December 20, 2014, 07:36:44 PM
It's a bug. (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=8236.0)
Observed corpse x3 isn't capped at 3 at all, thats the problem. if there are 22 corpses you get 22 x Observed corpse.
so thats why i set it to 0.5. but tbh if that eventually even gets to high i just set it to 0 till it's capped at 3.
gonna fiddle with "Thoughts_Memories" myself, see if i can get that limit working.
I thought I noticed this. I just laid out 31 pirate raiders and all my people are basically fetal position crying themselves to sleep for defending themselves... I mean yeah it sucks, but they were there to KILL you...
I try to argue with a friend that yes, seeing lots of bodies is depressing for a colony but my friend stands firm that a 2 year old colony that's bore a raid every couple weeks for those two years should be desensitized and emotionally dead at that point.
It's obviously a bug. The number doesn't go higher than 3, even with a much bigger effect, and before A8 it just stacked up to x3 and stopped. If it were intended, it would say "Observed corpse x50, -100" not "Observed corpse x3, -100".
Quote from: Goo Poni on December 21, 2014, 01:15:06 AM
I try to argue with a friend that yes, seeing lots of bodies is depressing for a colony but my friend stands firm that a 2 year old colony that's bore a raid every couple weeks for those two years should be desensitized and emotionally dead at that point.
You never get fully desensitized ever, show me one person from actual battlefield experience that has all his or her marbles in tact. If you had to deal with one or two raiders every other week you could handle it. However seeing large body counts plays with ones head really badly. You question living if all these raiders / tribal people / colonists didn't care to live. You break down in your mind slowly, until you cease to function as a normal human being. I have a mortician friend and he tells me it still gets to him when he sees the young brought in. And he handles the dead day in day out, he's been doing that now for almost 15 years. It never gets easier he says. As for combat soldiers we all have our stories from the kamikaze to an iraqi kid charging a check point with pounds of c4 on him. Any vet can put on a show but deep down our minds were cracked.
Back on topic, the debuff is hit and miss sometimes. On one occasion a colonist would get hit with X3 and another would get a X25 even if they were together hauling the corpses. It is still buggy is all I can say.
That is why you have to assign blood lust or psychopaths to corpse removal and disposal. Create a dumping ground just for corpses off the side of your killing floor with a crematoria. Lock the door once your corpse crew are in. The debuff only works if they see the dead within two squares of view.
Attached photo is of a Kill floor that I placed in the middle of two geysers.
(http://i.imgur.com/3GPotZn.jpg)
You know the feeling when you have had a colony for 3 years and have survived every attack with just mild injuries and the need to fix/rebuild some defenses at worst, and then something utterly unexpected comes by and wipes you off the map, and the only thing you can do is maniacally laugh about the s***storm that you can in no way control and click the load button with a near mental breakdown yourself of trying to figure out how to get around it?
I had that twice. First time was because my heavily fortified colony with nearly 20 fully power armored guys got wiped out by countless rampaging squirrels... which was the most hilariously sad thing I've seen in my life if you ask me.
Second time was because of the reason this thread was opened.
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1186x667q90/537/HVIPvb.png)
It may or may not be a bug, I honestly don't care because more challenge is better. From now on my every colony has a Psychopath-Hauler-Crafter character for reasons...
Quote from: Kelian on December 21, 2014, 12:24:26 AM
I thought I noticed this. I just laid out 31 pirate raiders and all my people are basically fetal position crying themselves to sleep for defending themselves... I mean yeah it sucks, but they were there to KILL you...
wait so previous versions didn't had this?
so ok i looked into a previous version and the code layout is completely different. Gonna fiddle with it again, see if i can get a better hotfix then x4.
Well, takes a lot of micromanagement, but if you set a colonist to operation he gets sedated and that ll keep him from going insane, he ll be out of action til his fit is over and then some more, but at least he doesnt leave or worse. I usually use the "euthanize" option as that doesnt require parts and medicine to be placed, and switch with one doc between all the soon to be loonies. Dont forget to cancel euthanize afterwards though. :P And you might need to reset your doc by drafting after the last guy got sedated.
Added the changes jack020 suggested to my corefiles, will try it out later, ty very much for that, jack :)
Quote from: Panzer on December 21, 2014, 07:25:56 AM
Added the changes jack020 suggested to my corefiles, will try it out later, ty very much for that, jack :)
it should be like this:
<ThoughtDef>
<defName>ObservedLayingCorpse</defName>
<duration>10000</duration>
<stackLimit>4</stackLimit>
<nullifyingTraits>
<li>Psychopath</li>
<li>Bloodlust</li>
</nullifyingTraits>
<stages>
<li>
<label>observed corpse</label>
<description>I saw a dead body laying on the ground.</description>
<baseMoodEffect>-2</baseMoodEffect>
</li>
</stages>
</ThoughtDef>
(for other readers, this can be found and edited in: "RimWorld657Win\Mods\Core\Defs\ThoughtDefs\Thoughts_Memories.xml")result:
(http://i.imgur.com/xMjz4uI.png)
still no progress in making it better then this.
Quote from: Panzer on December 21, 2014, 07:25:56 AM
Well, takes a lot of micromanagement, but if you set a colonist to operation he gets sedated and that ll keep him from going insane, he ll be out of action til his fit is over and then some more, but at least he doesnt leave or worse. I usually use the "euthanize" option as that doesnt require parts and medicine to be placed, and switch with one doc between all the soon to be loonies. Dont forget to cancel euthanize afterwards though. :P And you might need to reset your doc by drafting after the last guy got sedated.
Added the changes jack020 suggested to my corefiles, will try it out later, ty very much for that, jack :)
How about building Cryptosleep pods and telling crazies to go chill for a day till they're sane?
Apart from being very expensive, cryptopods just kinda "freeze" your guy, thoughts included, so that wont work (as far as I have tried). Might be a good idea when there are too much guys to handle.
@Jack: set the stacklimit to 10 and the moodeffect to -3, didnt get -30 though but around -12, must be a hidden multiplier somewhere but thats for tynan to figure out, or it might be just because the effect multiplier line is commented out.
Got an idea btw, why not make a perk out of this bug, something like psychic sensitivity but with corpses? :P
Quote from: Panzer on December 21, 2014, 08:20:01 AM
@Jack: set the stacklimit to 10 and the moodeffect to -3, didnt get -30 though but around -12, must be a hidden multiplier somewhere but thats for tynan to figure out, or it might be just because the effect multiplier line is commented out.
there is a hidden multiplier indeed, like i mentioned in this reply: https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=8390.msg83605#msg83605
it some how gets a 4 from some where. so at that moment i already guessed that there was hidden code some where with mathematics for this.
but i can't find it so i'll leave it to tynan.
Quote from: Everteal on December 21, 2014, 06:15:43 AM
(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/1186x667q90/537/HVIPvb.png)
It may or may not be a bug, I honestly don't care because more challenge is better. From now on my every colony has a Psychopath-Hauler-Crafter character for reasons...
WOW 168? That is messed up. I've had 62 max and had to lock the guy in the pretty room for a day. This has to be a bug, I like the challenge as well but it cannot be this high. In that picture it looks like your entire base is suffering pretty badly.
SEDATE should be a medical option.
Quote from: xlockeed on December 21, 2014, 09:16:30 PM
WOW 168? That is messed up. I've had 62 max and had to lock the guy in the pretty room for a day. This has to be a bug, I like the challenge as well but it cannot be this high. In that picture it looks like your entire base is suffering pretty badly.
Well as you can imagine nearly everyone out of 32 colonists went ape on each other, not to mention that all the ones in the pic with power armor helmets have miniguns.... It was
hilarious!Quote from: TrashMan on December 22, 2014, 05:26:57 AM
SEDATE should be a medical option.
This ^
Can we get some input from Tynan as to what the intended setting was? This might even be worth a hotfix.
Quote from: Ruin on December 22, 2014, 01:56:54 PM
Can we get some input from Tynan as to what the intended setting was? This might even be worth a hotfix.
looking at the original settings it should be a max negative mood of -6
the temporary hotfix i recommended has a max of -8.
But tbf after playing for a few hours with the hotfix i have to say that nothing can make them go nuts now
(aslong as no colonists die, no starving, being tired and psychic drone ofc), killing challenge if it comes to the mood/thought department. so i think tynan shouldn't only fix it but also increase the amount of negative mood points you can get from observing corpse.
the tough question is though, how much?
by altering the mood effect we can trial and error this for tynan in advance.
seeing how my "ranged" brawler went over the edge everytime with the slightest negative mood effect from a different source i think i will start with -20.
hmm.. i noticed that there are plenty of art in the room, but there are no "beauty" moodlet showing on the thoughts list..
Quote from: keylocke on December 23, 2014, 10:09:15 AM
hmm.. i noticed that there are plenty of art in the room, but there are no "beauty" moodlet showing on the thoughts list..
i currently have a few plants and multiple pieces of art but nothing either. Not sure if this is a bug or that i don't have enough though.
Quote from: jack020 on December 23, 2014, 09:52:32 AM
seeing how my "ranged" brawler went over the edge everytime with the slightest negative mood effect from a different source i think i will start with -20.
Attempt 1.
-20 wasn't enough.
attempt 2.
-25 neither. took me a entire day and more to make her snap in the following way.
(http://i.imgur.com/EZnOGpj.png)
looking at these screenshots i need to go towards 30 or even 40.
Granted i need to keep in mind that the colonists that get into this situation aren't always in mint condition like my test subject.
My goal btw is to get her to snap but not so fast that you can't do anything about it.
Attempt 3.
-30, still easy in mint condition.
Attempt 4.
-35, getting there. requires happy room/thoughts.
Attempt 5.
-40, requires a proper response for a person in mint condition minus sharing bedroom ofc.
(http://i.imgur.com/CkWTsOc.png)
so if there sleepy and/or hungry (or any other additional negative mood effect / trait) you already got a serious problem at hand.
so this 1 looks solid to the point i don't dare to say that -45 (and -8) is a good option.
(cause i think with -45 (and -8) additional longer lasting or hard to get rid of negative effect will crush your colonist for sure)so imo in between -35 and -40 is worth test playing for a longer period of time. Anything higher is
probable for the really hardcore players.
-35 being <baseMoodEffect>-8.75</baseMoodEffect> and -40 being -10 in my hotfix.
ofc in the original fix it should still be -2 a corpse, otherwise your colonists will snap in early game.
look at the stats and screens above, test play (late games in) different settings and discuss if your interested in this subject.
I wonder if someday the mood can increase exponentially rather than linearly like today.
Observed corpse -2 (-2 each)
Observed corpse x2 -6 (-3 each)
Observed corpse x3 -12 (-4 each)
Too OP?
Quote from: keylocke on December 23, 2014, 10:09:15 AM
hmm.. i noticed that there are plenty of art in the room, but there are no "beauty" moodlet showing on the thoughts list..
Works for me now, so it probable just requires more Art(beauty) then before.
just wanted to pitch in with two ways to work around this
Lining the map edges with rotting corpses can break some raiders before they even start coming after your colony and if you build a partial wall in front of the bodies your colonists wont see them.
Making a killbox partially out of wood allows for throwing a couple molotovs to take care of corpses and the soon to be corpses
Quote from: StorymasterQ on December 23, 2014, 07:45:27 PM
I wonder if someday the mood can increase exponentially rather than linearly like today.
Observed corpse -2 (-2 each)
Observed corpse x2 -6 (-3 each)
Observed corpse x3 -12 (-4 each)
Too OP?
eventually that would become to much. like corpse 10 would already give very high negative mood then.
on a different note i altered my opinion to 25-30 max after some extensive play with 35.
There's an important aspect missing.
Observing rotting corpse times 3/4/5... only gives -6, yet isn't it supposed to be worse than just corpses? :)
Quote from: jack020 on December 21, 2014, 07:52:08 AM
Quote from: Panzer on December 21, 2014, 07:25:56 AM
Added the changes jack020 suggested to my corefiles, will try it out later, ty very much for that, jack :)
it should be like this:
<ThoughtDef>
<defName>ObservedLayingCorpse</defName>
<duration>10000</duration>
<stackLimit>4</stackLimit>
<nullifyingTraits>
<li>Psychopath</li>
<li>Bloodlust</li>
</nullifyingTraits>
<stages>
<li>
<label>observed corpse</label>
<description>I saw a dead body laying on the ground.</description>
<baseMoodEffect>-2</baseMoodEffect>
</li>
</stages>
</ThoughtDef>
(for other readers, this can be found and edited in: "RimWorld657Win\Mods\Core\Defs\ThoughtDefs\Thoughts_Memories.xml")
I have next to no experience in programming/coding but aren't you missing <stackedEffectMultiplier>1</stackedEffectMultiplier>?
Quote from: Everteal on December 26, 2014, 09:10:30 AM
I have next to no experience in programming/coding but aren't you missing <stackedEffectMultiplier>1</stackedEffectMultiplier>?
that not being there is part of the temporary hotfix :)
(or actually it's the whole fix, the other alteration is only to make the post change hidden mathematics match with what you read in the Thoughts/Mood Tab)if you keep that in, the stacks are unlimited.
Added:
here is the result if you keep it in:
(http://i.imgur.com/KUgR2Gf.png)