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Is your farm submerged by rotting produce? Is your base cluttered by enemies' corpses? Are your colonists repeatedly slacking off?

If you answered ''Yes!'' to any of these questions, then A2B: conveyor belts & co. is the solution you need !
Our engineers have re-invented the wheel to create *the* 31st century solution to all your goods transport issues. No more endless back-and-forth trips carrying potatoes - let the A2B conveyor belts do it for you!

Features
Order today, and get the full A2B system at no extra charge, including:
- a reliable conveyor belt system that locks items to avoid accidents, but releases them in case of power cuts. No need to starve to death during eclipses!
- a universal curve. No more headaches choosing between left or right turns!
- a universal 'Loader', because A2B conveyor belts are sturdy enough to carry anything from berries to rock chunks and rotten corpses!
- a smart 'Unloader' which neatly piles up your material and releases it for your lazy colonists to access - or directly refill your hoppers!
- a 'Splitter' unit, to make three belt lines out of one ... and  a 'Merger' unit, to turn three belt lines into one!
- a 'Selector' unit. Why sort items by hand if it can be automated?
- an 'Undercover' and 'Undertaker' pair of elements to send items underground for a while, and go below any building, wall, pawn, dining room, etc ...

Wait no more, and enjoy the modularity of the A2B: conveyor belts & co. system today. Isn't it time to turn this rural farm into a money-making factory?

Add-ons
The base A2B package contains a minimum sets of belt elements - all complimentary - that allow for a very wide range of belt designs. The base package will be suitable for most users, but if you have specific needs or "simply want more", you might be interested in one the following add-ons (to be loaded AFTER the main mod):

1) A2B: Selectors : this add-on contains 11 new Selector designs to complement the main-mod Selector, and will get you covered, no matter how complex your sorting logic and belt geometry might be.

In details: this add-on contains five new selectors with different pathing options and six selectors which are "soft" filtered variants.  The difference between the normal ("hard") filtered selectors and the "soft" selectors is that the "soft" selectors will send an item which would be filtered to an alternate path if the filtered path is blocked. The new selectors will show up in a new tab "A2B Selectors" beside the "A2B" tab.  The original selector has not been moved.  The same research is required to access the new selectors as the original "[A2B] New Components". The selectors are in individual xml files so you can remove the ones you don't want (all are enabled by default).

2) A2B: Teleporter : this add-on contains teleporter/receiver pair which used to reside in the core mod in earlier versions (pre-Alpha 11).

In details: this add-on contains two components, a teleporter and receiver.  These can be used to send items long distances to anywhere on the map but at the cost of a lot of power and large heat build up.  The teleporters now use a network channel to transmit to receivers on the same channel.  More teleporter specific research is available to optimize your teleporters!

Partnerships
Conveyor belts are fun and useful as a stand-alone tool, but their true potential is really revealed when they are connected to other 'machines'. And we at A2B are very well aware of that ! Hence, we are always on the lookout for new partnerships to ensure that our belt system can have the widest and most polyvalent applications!

Here are our current partners:
1) 'Vanilla' food hoppers: Yep, that's right, our A2B Unloaders can automatically refill your food hoppers - no more endless trip to the fields for your cooks!
2) Mechanical Defense 2 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=7380.0) by mipen: place an A2B loader next to the ore extractor to send the precious gems/material on their merry way!
3) Community Core Library (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=16599.0): A2B unloaders and selectors can automatically unload into 'generic hoppers'.  Additionally, 'automated factory' buildings will make use of loaders to feed-back into the system allowing you to completely automate your production without wasting precious time hauling or crafting!

Do you own a 'machine' that you wish would connect to our belt system? Get in touch so we can make this happen. We are always looking for new friends!

(Note: we at A2B are strong believers in the famous interstellar motto "The greatest fun comes from the smallest mod", hence our unique partnership system. YOU choose what you need (nothing else, nothing more) and WE make sure it works fine together.)

Notes
- this mod was originally created using Haplo's DarkMatter Generator example as a canvas, which was subsequently heavily frankensteined into the A2B mod. It has since been subject to several complete structural overhauls.
- we are happy for anyone to use this as they wish, steal the source code borrow programming ideas, etc ... if you do so, references to this post and credits are welcome but we won't be mad if you don't ;)
- feel free to report any bugs, and we'll do our best to fix them. Or even better, send us your fix directly ;)
- have suggestions? Send them our way! But note that this is not going to be a massive mod. It will deal with transport systems only!
- We're working hard on the look of things, but we're always happy to get suggestions/contributions about this aspect as well!

Contributors
1000101*, noone, TehJoE, asarium, FredrikLH, bigmap001, kaptain-kavern
* Active member of the A2B corporation

Download
All the code is on Github:
A2B: Conveyor belts [main mod]: https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/releases/latest (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/releases/latest)
A2B: Selectors [add-on]: https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B_selectors/releases/latest (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B_selectors/releases/latest)
A2B: Teleporters [add-on]: https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B_Teleporter/releases/latest (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B_Teleporter/releases/latest)

The image-based tutorial as well:
https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/wiki/Tutorial (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/wiki/Tutorial)

Known bugs
The list of existing bugs/wished features can be found here: https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/issues (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/issues)

Any and all contributions & suggestions towards solving and/or implementing any of the features listed there will be warmly welcomed by our engineers, and properly rewarded!
(Note: the reward for helping improve and expand the A2B mod will be strictly limited to the glory and fame possibly but not certainly resulting from being added to the exclusive list of contributors to the mod. Don't expect silver ...)

Screenshot
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/master/About/preview.png)

Research
(https://raw.githubusercontent.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B_art/master/A2B_branding/A2Bcorp_research.png)

Versions
0.13.0: Alpha 13 Update.  New features and a couple small bugs fixed.
0.12.1: Unloader fix.  Resolves issue #47 and builds against RimWorld Alpha 12d.
0.12.0b: Research fix.  Restores the research to it's normal prerequisites.  Affects core mod and teleporters.
0.12.0: Alpha 12c update.  Contains all the goodies 0.11.3 was testing!
0.11.3: Testing Release.  Underground system can merge, split and corner.  Covers can be taken off to help retrieve valuable items.
0.11.2: Alpha 11b update.  Optimized underground components, fixes slide no-power bug and some edge-case underground routing.  Adds French translation by kaptain-kavern.
0.11.1: Major update. Core optimizations.  Major overhaul of teleporter add on.
0.11.0: Alpha 11 release. Teleporter/receiver now form their own mod add-on separate from the core mod.  Also fixes the splitter so it properly cycles through outputs on sparsely populated belts and will re-path when all paths are full and one becomes available.
0.10.2: Underground belt system now allows power segmentation, fixes transport time and construction issues.
0.10.1: Pre-release of the Underground belts. Transport time remains to be fixed.
0.10.0: Alpha 10 release. Includes a symmetric teleporter, more research, etc ...
0.9.0: Alpha 9 release. Includes animation and bugfixes (no power cable issues anymore, belts transfer heat, etc ...). Thanks to TehJoE !
0.8.0: Alpha 8 release. Also, the teleporters can now beam objects to large distances at the cost of an increased power consumption (thanks FredrikLH) !
0.7.0: Alpha 7 release.
0.6.4: Minor update. Rock and slag chunks are now haulable 'by default' when they come out of the belt system via an Unloader. Textures have been slightly modified for uniformity and XML properties of different belt elements re-balanced.
0.6.3: Major update. Added smooth motion for the items on the belt (thank asarium). Added 3 new belt items (splitter, Teleporter and receiver). Code moved to Github, including an image-based tutorial. Bug fixes (including rock chunks!).
0.6.2: Major code overhaul by asarium, no more error messages with rock and slag chunks (but they still don't behave), minor texture updates.
0.6.1: fixed stupid XML bug - your belts will now connect to the power grid ...
0.6.0: Alpha 6 release.


Yep, that's right, A2B is now a Corporation ! From the very beginning, we at A2B encouraged contributions from the community to create the best possible system of conveyor belts in the galaxy.

By becoming a fully-fledged corporation, we are now taking one important step to ensure the long term stability of the mod, while allowing more contributions and more collaborators to join us !

As a Github organization, anyone is welcome to fork and propose commits to the code.  This also ensures that the mod's destiny does not rest with a single user at once. 

More support, more updates, more efficiency ... The future is looking bright, and we at A2B corp. are looking forward to embrace it !

Yay! One of my favorites. Thanks a lot, mate!

woot yay! :D

Nice! A whole new start to the conveyor mod! I always love your conveyors.

do they still cut entire rooms in half?

Quote from: dareddevil7 on February 22, 2015, 09:08:41 PM
do they still cut entire rooms in half?

Assuming you're talking about sealing rooms off like walls: In 0.9.0, they can in some cases, but the upcoming 0.9.1 version fixes that completely.

They're not intended to be pathable (you can use teleporters to split the belts up to allow pawns through) but in the next release I believe you technically can get a pawn to walk through them if it's absolutely the only way to get somewhere.

how would i get it so that they only drop things on a loader if its closer then my normal stock piles so they dron grab from stock piles to load the loader

The loader and the destination stockpile should be the same priority. Then it will take it to the closest one.

Nicely done. Some thoughts for future features:

• Step overs: either a step over one can place over an existing conveyor (likely impossible) or just a straight conveyor segment with an integrated step over. See: http://www.gmhgb.com/images/stepovers.jpg
• Doors: straight conveyor segments with a door to block heat and item movement (toggle open and shut, automatically close on power-loss), e.g., for conveying items into a large freezer. Auto-open and close when items are passing through might also be nice. See: http://www.expo21xx.com/news/wp-content/uploads/albany-conveyor-system-door.jpg
• Overhead segments: to allow pawns to walk under, perhaps restrict them from conveying heavy items, e.g., chunks, large corpses.
• Covered segments for the outdoors: counts as indoors for item degradation, perhaps restrict them from conveying large items, e.g., chunks, large corpses.
• Underground segments: function the same as normal segments (straights and turns only), but are floor tiles and can be walked and built upon. The catches being that items cannot be retrieved even when the power is off, special up and down transfer segments are needed to start and end an underground section, and no large items are conveyed.
• Quality selector: send low-quality items one way, high-quality the other.
• Damage selector: send low-HP items one way, high-HP the other.
• Random events: segment with an item jams (most likely on curves, teleporters, doors), item falls off segment to the side (most likely on curves and overheads).
• Automatic power control: when built inline with the power source a conveyor system or perhaps just adjacent to any part of the system, switches power off automatically in response to: the system being empty or no items can move.
• A flipped version of the selector, so one can always use a positive filter to select, rather than needing to make a negative filter for right-handed turns.
• Use an empty list for new loaders so one doesn't have to watch a loader-blueprint until it's built then jump in quickly before bad items, e.g., ones without an unloader, are placed into the system.
• And, a possibly out-of-scope idea: inline processors. For example, meat cookers, stone processors, incinerators.

If you consider the quality and damage selectors, might be good to first check with Sylvester whether he plans to add those to the storage filter interface, which would obviate the need in A2B.

Thanks for these suggestions. Some very good ideas in there. They shall be discussed by the A2B board, but I'll write down a couple of personal thoughts for now.

So far, the A2B systems have been driven by one concept: allow the most polyvalent setups while restricting the number of components to a minimum. The game already contains a lot of stuff to build in various categories, and things get even worse with mods. I am all in favor of new items if they add to the abilities of the belt - but if they merely add "alternatives" to the existing system, then I will have very strong doubts regarding their addition.

Specifically:

1. to 5. : Sure, these would look nice and fancy. But you can already allow colonists to walk through a belt line using the teleporter/receiver pair. Plus, from a "look" perspective, I do not think that we could achieve anything looking really nice for such components. In my mind, these bring no functional gain, complexify the code and its maintenance, and add clutter to the item's menu.
6. to 7. : Very interesting concept. Rather than a separate items, though, I would hope to integrate this into the Selector directly, and avoid adding two additional items. Unless searching the selector becomes too tedious, but I think it should be alright. Added to the Github wish list, for now or later.
8. : We're working on fun things like that .. stay tuned !
9. : Power control is a tricky one, especially now that colonists have to walk to switch things off. I don't like the idea of switching on/off all the time if the belts are empty - too much variations all the time. But I agree that the possibility of switching off an entire belt line would be a useful feature. Not quite sure how to achieve that just yet ...
10. : That would just work like the existing selector and be very confusing for everyone. Not convinced right now that it would bring anything but clutter the item's menu.
11. : Good point. Added to the request list on Github.
12. : These would be great. But I would not like to see them inside A2B conveyor belts & co. I like small and dedicated mods, because players can install what they want piece by piece, rather than getting large combos and only use half. I am very much in favor of a dedicated series of machines compatible with the A2B belt systems (and these have been requested a lot in the past already), but I would rather have them placed inside a separate mod, e.g. A2B machines & co.

Once again, these are some personal thoughts, and do not represent the final position of the A2B corp. on your suggestions. We'll see what other members on the board think.

I get the issue with the selector. It's fairly annoying the limits we currently have, I had wanted to do a selector with, for example, using NSWE, N/S Input, W/E output, instead of W/S Input N/E Output. I don't know how it would be coded without making a different selector to cover every option once rotation is accounted for, which would be just waaay too much because it'd be like, 12 different combinations or something (math was not my strong subject)

Thanks for the thoughtful response, appreciated. Some additional thinking:

• In space constrained areas (isn't that everywhere), and of course outdoors with the rain, the teleporter pairs aren't practical. And, for what little its worth, I don't see the technology of teleportation as "lore-friendly" (that's just me overthinking, not a criticism, just data.) So, having even one segment that's passable and one that can (at least intermittently) block temperature equalization, would be a boon for users not using the teleporters (whatever their reasons.)
• I agree on the damage and quality selectors, of course the best case is that the functionality is coming for free, so to speak, in a future alpha as a rework of the storage UI.
• Haplo has a nice approach to power switching in his PowerSwitch mod (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=2890.0 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=2890.0).) I think making the switching an additional part, or even extending the vanilla switch as Haplo has done, would make it welcome in those situations where energy is scarce and not bother folks who have power to spare and don't care for the automatic toggling. Perhaps a collaborative patch by A2B and PowerSwitch?
• Yep, the handedness of the selector is a sticky wicket. Problematic as it is and would still be if there's a mirror-image confusing users in the build menu. I like that approach of sending matches left and right (acting as a splitter when connected on both sides) and non-matched item straight ahead; seems like only one would be needed then, no?

Quote from: Famous Shoes on February 23, 2015, 06:45:18 PM
I like that approach of sending matches left and right (acting as a splitter when connected on both sides) and non-matched item straight ahead; seems like only one would be needed then, no?[/li][/list]

\facepalm That makes perfect sense, would be very elegant, add a lot of freedom while maintaining the same number of components. One input South, the "1" output North, and the "2" outputs left and right, to be fed in alternance or depending which ever exist is connected. Added to the wish list.

Quote from: Famous Shoes on February 23, 2015, 06:45:18 PM
In space constrained areas (isn't that everywhere), and of course outdoors with the rain, the teleporter pairs aren't practical. And, for what little its worth, I don't see the technology of teleportation as "lore-friendly" (that's just me overthinking, not a criticism, just data.) So, having even one segment that's passable and one that can (at least intermittently) block temperature equalization, would be a boon for users not using the teleporters (whatever their reasons.)

Fair enough. Will keep this in mind for later on. Will also keep thinking about power management improvements.

Edit: updated wish list is here: https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/issues

Quote from: Famous Shoes on February 23, 2015, 03:53:16 PM

• Step overs: either a step over one can place over an existing conveyor (likely impossible) or just a straight conveyor segment with an integrated step over. See: http://www.gmhgb.com/images/stepovers.jpg
• Doors: straight conveyor segments with a door to block heat and item movement (toggle open and shut, automatically close on power-loss), e.g., for conveying items into a large freezer. Auto-open and close when items are passing through might also be nice. See: http://www.expo21xx.com/news/wp-content/uploads/albany-conveyor-system-door.jpg
• Overhead segments: to allow pawns to walk under, perhaps restrict them from conveying heavy items, e.g., chunks, large corpses.
• Covered segments for the outdoors: counts as indoors for item degradation, perhaps restrict them from conveying large items, e.g., chunks, large corpses.
• Automatic power control: when built inline with the power source a conveyor system or perhaps just adjacent to any part of the system, switches power off automatically in response to: the system being empty or no items can move.

I am actually a huge fan of having some kind of sealable conveyor belt. I have a hunch, though, that I can do it without even adding another component, since building things into walls is actually already supported in the game. As for passable belts, well, until an issue with temperature equalization gets sorted out, that will be technically possible (though your pawns will still try their damnedest to go around). I think a step-over would actually look really neat and so would the overhead belts, but there's actually a quirk in rendering where I'm not 100% sure the step-over could be rendered above the items passing under the belt but below the pawns crossing it. Similarly, I don't know if we can get belts to render above pawns entirely but below items. Not to mention they add components for a single purpose, something we're very wary about doing. Covered outdoor segments have the same single-use component issue, and it's trivial to build a few walls to roof in your conveyor belts especially since if they're particularly long you really should be using a teleporter somewhere anyway.

As far as automatic power control goes, I've actually felt for a while that this mod community is just awaiting their wiremod/redstone/etc equivalent for rimworld before the really great mods start emerging - if someone were to implement a logic-transmission mod (perhaps TYNAN ;D), I imagine we would almost certainly have some kind of "item detector" component or similar to interface with it.

Definitely good ides from Famous Shoes.

   
• 1-5. Even though, yes, the teleporter can provide these functions, I like the idea of a low tech solution. Seems over the top to have a high tech device like a teleporter just to move an item a couple of squares. I particularly like the underground idea, although I don't know if thats possible. Can you have a 1x3 construction that is impassible on the ends but passable in the middle? But if it was possible you could use it to allow people to pass, to cross walls and even to have crossed belts. So multiple uses. In fact I'd probably prefer that than the teleporter which, I agree with Famous Shoes, is a bit off-lore. If people want a teleporter it's probably better off as a separate mod.

   
• 4. People are talking about item deterioration on the belt but I think nothing deteriorates on the belt. Correct me if I'm wrong.

   
• 8. Items jam already don't they? That annoys me I admit but I like the idea of items occasionally falling off, hopefully not too often.

   
• 9. Not sure I follow that but to save power how about an unpowered belt? Items wont move forward unless pushed from behind? I'm not sure how many people would find a use for it though and be happy to have a belt full of items they can't reach.

   
• 10. I have to second that facepalm. It's definitely a nice solution to have 1 go straight and 2 go left or right depending on what's connected. Acting as a splitter too is just a bonus. It's simpler than my suggestion of somehow sensing what sides are connected and adjusting accordingly, which would be hard to program and confusing to users.

   
• 12. Another brilliant idea. Definitely belong in another mod. If I had the skill I'd jump on that project right away.

Quote from: MsMeiriona on February 23, 2015, 05:51:15 PM
I get the issue with the selector. It's fairly annoying the limits we currently have, I had wanted to do a selector with, for example, using NSWE, N/S Input, W/E output, instead of W/S Input N/E Output. I don't know how it would be coded without making a different selector to cover every option once rotation is accounted for, which would be just waaay too much because it'd be like, 12 different combinations or something (math was not my strong subject)

I suggested such a selector to Noone but he didn't implement it. And I ended up agreeing it was a wise choice. It would be an unnecessary extra piece because you can simulate a left/right selector with the current selector using only 1 extra square.

Quote from: Rock5 on February 24, 2015, 03:29:40 AM
Definitely good ides from Famous Shoes.

   
• 1-5. Even though, yes, the teleporter can provide these functions, I like the idea of a low tech solution. Seems over the top to have a high tech device like a teleporter just to move an item a couple of squares. I particularly like the underground idea, although I don't know if thats possible. Can you have a 1x3 construction that is impassible on the ends but passable in the middle? But if it was possible you could use it to allow people to pass, to cross walls and even to have crossed belts. So multiple uses. In fact I'd probably prefer that than the teleporter which, I agree with Famous Shoes, is a bit off-lore. If people want a teleporter it's probably better off as a separate mod.

I don't think it's possible to mix passability and impassability like that... There is still the very real problem of rendering order which is actually not trivial to change. As much code as I've written for this mod so far, the entire process of rendering items on the belt is still magic to me. I've been considering a "crossover" component to let belts cross but I'm not sure it's got enough uses to be an entire component. And for me personally, the overkill of using teleporters to break up conveyor belts is part of the charm of the mod ;)

Quote from: Rock5 on February 24, 2015, 03:29:40 AM

   
• 4. People are talking about item deterioration on the belt but I think nothing deteriorates on the belt. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Beyond weird edge cases like completely-surrounded belts becoming "outdoors" (a problem that will be fixed in the next release), items should only deteriorate on belts if they would have deteriorated in that cell otherwise, i.e. the belts don't affect item deterioration at all.

Quote from: Rock5 on February 24, 2015, 03:29:40 AM

   
• 8. Items jam already don't they? That annoys me I admit but I like the idea of items occasionally falling off, hopefully not too often.

They should not. If you have any situations that produce jams in v0.9.0+, please submit a bug report on github.

Quote from: Rock5 on February 24, 2015, 03:29:40 AM

   
• 9. Not sure I follow that but to save power how about an unpowered belt? Items wont move forward unless pushed from behind? I'm not sure how many people would find a use for it though and be happy to have a belt full of items they can't reach.

I don't know about you guys but power is basically free in this game so far. I don't see a strong utility for unpowered push-only belts. Maybe a fall-back feature for the base belts when their power is cut, but I wouldn't count on it...

Quote from: Rock5 on February 24, 2015, 03:29:40 AM

   
• 10. I have to second that facepalm. It's definitely a nice solution to have 1 go straight and 2 go left or right depending on what's connected. Acting as a splitter too is just a bonus. It's simpler than my suggestion of somehow sensing what sides are connected and adjusting accordingly, which would be hard to program and confusing to users.

"Hard to program"?  That a challenge? 8)

Anyway, all components already sense connected sides and only send to those if that's what you mean. If we still had any non-symmetrical components I would actually consider putting some mode-toggle buttons in for some of them. A symmetrical selector is in the next release.

Quote from: Rock5 on February 24, 2015, 03:29:40 AM

   
• 12. Another brilliant idea. Definitely belong in another mod. If I had the skill I'd jump on that project right away.

Skill isn't something you just have, it's something you create yourself. So if you have a project you want to see happen, make it happen  ;)

Quote from: TehJoE on February 24, 2015, 12:31:52 PM
"Hard to program"?  That a challenge? 8)

Anyway, all components already sense connected sides and only send to those if that's what you mean. If we still had any non-symmetrical components I would actually consider putting some mode-toggle buttons in for some of them. A symmetrical selector is in the next release.

What I meant was have 1 input and 3 possible outputs that allows you to use any 2 of the 3. It would require different textures depending on which 2 are connected. For instance if you have the left and forward connected then you would set left as 1 and forward as 2. If you had the left and right connected then you would set left as 1 and right as 2, etc. But I don't think it's necessary and might be confusing to use. Famous Shoes idea is better and simpler.

Quote from: TehJoE on February 24, 2015, 12:31:52 PM
Skill isn't something you just have, it's something you create yourself. So if you have a project you want to see happen, make it happen  ;)

I'm all for it but every time I've approached languages like c# I've found them too difficult. Even now when I look into mod dlls I'm finding it too hard to get started. It doesn't help that there doesn't seem to be any documentation or guides anywhere. And by guides I mean guides that explain things step by step, not "copy and paste this, compile and you've made your first dll". Or even a references that explains the different values in xmls.

What I'd like to see are separate guides for different features of mod making. For instance a step by step guide to make simple xml mods such as making item, recipes, research etc. There probably are some of those. But then also a guide to add a button to an item, a guide to adding a comp to something (is that what they are called?), a guide to adding a process that runs every tick. I just look at everything and I don't know where to start. It doesn't help that c# isn't like languages I've dealt with before and I've never dealt with dlls before. I sort of understand that dll probably define some classes or objects that are then referenced in the xmls but that's about all I understand.

Yeah so if you have some advice on how I can start learning this stuff I'm all ears.

The various additional conveyor types I was ruminating on could, I think, be done without stepping out of the bounds of what's already in A2B. Except for the overhead conveyor, that's undiscovered country. Here's a few thoughts on how they might work, just in case any of these are of interest to A2B Corp.

• Step over: a 1x3 piece that, when oriented horizontally, moves items up or down at it's center, can be walked and stood upon, otherwise no special behavior. As the ends of the belt would be just peeking out a pixel or two at the sides of the step over ladder, it needn't have animation or display of the item being conveyed. Or, just a 1x1, but I'm guessing the visual would be too cramped to properly convey the piece's definition to the user, i.e., these are stairs, a bridge, and stairs, plus the 1x3 could make it more of a tradeoff than a freebie standable.
• Underground: three 1x1 pieces, the first two floor tiles, with no item visibility, just a straight and a corner, likely a minor variation on something like the vanilla metal tile's texture could be plenty--perhaps with a faint industrial yellow/orange stripe indicating straight or corner. The third piece could be texture variation of the current straight piece, this one looking like it's lifting items from a hole on one end and mating smoothly with the standard conveyor at the other. To avoid having to worry about scaling items as they animated from underground to waist level, one could make the texture that of a covered conveyor, perhaps similar to what you see at some airports. If one were feeling pedantic, these could be setup so that only the "lifter" belt could convey items to and from the undergrounds, but I'd bet users would be self-enforce that just fine without a real restriction.
• Doorway: I suppose this is a bit new, as it would change its heat equalization behavior based on being open or closed, while current segments (I believe) always equalize. And, it would need control code to open and close. Otherwise, it'd look the same as the standard straight conveyor segment, but with a hint of a sliding door and frame at one end.
• Overheads: there's no getting around these being quite a departure and possibly impossible. I don't think I've seen Rimworld animate a pawn moving under anything, much less a pawn moving under something with an item moving above that. Quite a challenge. Probably too hard. Even old Mushinto would probably have to give it a miss.  ::)

Again, I'd hesitate to say these are even suggestions, just thinking aloud in case you lot are interested in cherrypicking anything there.

PS I originally missed that you're using GitHub. So my apologies for filling up this thread, any more bad ideas I'll post over there.

Quote from: Rock5 on February 24, 2015, 01:45:34 PM

I'm all for it but every time I've approached languages like c# I've found them too difficult. Even now when I look into mod dlls I'm finding it too hard to get started. It doesn't help that there doesn't seem to be any documentation or guides anywhere. And by guides I mean guides that explain things step by step, not "copy and paste this, compile and you've made your first dll". Or even a references that explains the different values in xmls.

What I'd like to see are separate guides for different features of mod making. For instance a step by step guide to make simple xml mods such as making item, recipes, research etc. There probably are some of those. But then also a guide to add a button to an item, a guide to adding a comp to something (is that what they are called?), a guide to adding a process that runs every tick. I just look at everything and I don't know where to start. It doesn't help that c# isn't like languages I've dealt with before and I've never dealt with dlls before. I sort of understand that dll probably define some classes or objects that are then referenced in the xmls but that's about all I understand.

Yeah so if you have some advice on how I can start learning this stuff I'm all ears.

Unfortunately a lot of this stuff is still heavily undocumented, especially with changes between Alphas breaking and outdating certain things... The best advice I can give you to figuring out how to do C# dll modding in RimWorld is to download JetBrains' dotPeek decompiler (http://www.jetbrains.com/decompiler/) and use it to browse RimWorld's Assembly-CSharp.dll and the dlls of other mods that interest you, and browse open-source mods' source code. (Just don't steal others' work!) C# is really not all that hard to understand compared to some other languages, it just takes some practice. Programming is a highly sought-after skill for a reason though - don't expect everything to come easily!

Basically, play with code, make things, break things, change things, and you'll develop an understanding of how it all works. Haplo's example PowerGeneration mod is a good start if you read the comments inside the source code - it explains several things that will have you well on your way to making mods.

And you're pretty much right about what a dll file is - it's a file containing a bunch of classes that all talk about each other and do a whole bunch of things, and sometimes reference the classes in other dll files. The main .exe file usually loads all the classes in those dlls and puts them to work.

I second TehJoE's suggestions on getting modding with Rimworld. As you may know, the first version of A2B was built up entirely by altering Haplo's dark matter generator files. https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=3408.0

I never modded before, and used mimetism to figure out how to get the stuff I wanted. Of course, the A2B mod has since massively evolved as other more experienced people offered to help - that's the power of this community, and why getting it all open to suggestions on Github is the best thing I ever did.

Note that I have a fair bit of Python experience, and had very old and rusty C++ knowledge. Looking at the code structure of something "simple" like Haplo's code and moving on from there is how I would suggest you to approach the problem if you have any kind of previous programming experience. After all, to a first order, all programming languages are the same, it's just a difference in the vocabulary that differs (in the first order, the grammar is the same).

Rather than figuring out everything before getting started, just get started and figure things out on the way.

One step by step guide could be :
1) get Haplo's mod to compile as is, and run smoothly in the game.
2) rename all the necessary files to whatever mod name you fancy, and see if you can still compile things
3) think about the key elements required for your code to work. In your case, if you want to build machines, I'd suggest checking for near-by hoppers. The rest, you could all code it.
4) I am using Mono Develop for doing the coding, and it has an 'autocompletion' feature. I tend to just look around for generic variables and such, then use autocompletion to see their properties, until I find what I am looking for.
5) Sure, that may not give you an elegant code, but who cares, if it works ? And if it doesn't, you can always ask for help around. It is a lot more likely for you to get help on an existing albeit buggy mod than just asking pople how to do things from scratch. That's because there's so many million ways to do things from scratch - but fixing a bug is "usually" easier and more straightforward.
6) Haplo's tutorial hasn't been updated to Alpha9, but it should be soon, one would hope.

Hope that helps. Ultimately, TehJoE's advice is right. Dive right in, and take things one step at a time. Looking around for other 'machines' mod with the soruce could also help - the void hopper could be one of these.

Finally, there's quite a few people interested in machines around ... if you were to put something small together, I am sure it could gain momentum.

after I made a small factory like in attachment
I started to have a stable lags (freezing every 1-2 seconds on max speed)  :'(

[attachment deleted due to age]

Quote from: bullet on February 24, 2015, 06:36:32 PM
after I made a small factory like in attachment
I started to have a stable lags (freezing every 1-2 seconds on max speed)  :'(

Are there any errors in the console? I don't know if Alpha 9 fixed it or not, but in Alpha 8 I personally had troubles with a lot of construction designations on the map at once causing the freezing you describe. Are you sure that's not going on? If not, try cutting the power to the belts and see if the lag stops. Let me know what you find.

I had some errors but these not related with this mod and not caused the same lags before.

Also I use 275x275 map size (which not recommended) and at this moment I have lots of different items on the map
And game restarting seems like slightly helped. And if screen not focused on the factory, it's helps also (and if screen movement only in pause) And yep, after turning off the factory, all lags are gone

I remember that in the Alpha 8 were similar lags, but latest mod updatings seems like  to fix these problems. Last time when I was playing in the alpha 8 I had a lot of conveyors and there was no lags

Hey guys, just wanna say how much those new icons and the new merger improves the whole mod concept.
Both helps a real lot. Thank you for taking those suggestions!

P.S.: Loaders still have standard priority "Important". And I still dont get that. is there a reason for?

Having loaders at important makes my colonists carrying stuff all over the map and ignoring normal storage. So I have to put every loader to "normal" which can get quite frustrating sometimes.

Just wondering if there is a reason for and I dont get it. Or wouldnt it be better to put standard to normal in xml by company itself?

Well, I remember choosing the priority to be larger than normal, but I can't really remember why ... ;)

I agree with you, and don't really see a good reason for it right now. Probably worth changing this to normal as you suggest.

Note that in the next release, all items will be "forbidden" by default in the Loader's list, so your colonists will not start hauling anything until you set up the Loader as you want/need. That should help as well ...

Quote from: noone on March 04, 2015, 05:07:54 PM
Well, I remember choosing the priority to be larger than normal, but I can't really remember why ... ;)

I agree with you, and don't really see a good reason for it right now. Probably worth changing this to normal as you suggest.

Note that in the next release, all items will be "forbidden" by default in the Loader's list, so your colonists will not start hauling anything until you set up the Loader as you want/need. That should help as well ...

Sounds fair to me. A "Allow all" button would also be nice though :)

So, I've been using A2B for a while through the different alpha releases and I couldn't imagine playing without it.  Seriously, I basically held off on Alpha 9 until A2B was updated.  Latest release of A2B adding a simple splitter and merger is a great addition and I had a couple ideas.

First, loaders get a toggle option for "wait for full stack" which will ... wait ... for a full stack ... before sending it down the line.

Second, a "soft" selector-splitter hybrid which has one filtered output and two unfiltered outputs.  The key with this hybrid belt section is that it will send accepted items through normally unless it's destination is full then it will use the reject paths which all unfiltered items use.  I came up with the idea for this belt after trying to prevent "log jams" in my system.  I came up with a solution which will yield a 75% success rate in filtered paths with 0% jams.

See the attached mock-ups to help better understand what I mean by the "soft" selector-splitter hybrid.  It basically reduces a complex 2x3 configuration down the one piece.

[attachment deleted due to age]

Hey guys Pascal here,

i got a little question about the conveyor belts

so the question is:
does food spoil when its inside an Conveyor belt?

So if food does spoil, my system i made in a creative world is useless http://puu.sh/gLX6q/8cba35f20d.jpg
but if not than that system seems pretty usefull

And i know that Conveyor belts sort of act like walls, so the conveyor belts are to small to support a roof (and let through heat) but high enough to be inpassable.

You don't have to worry about spoilage and item degradation in the current release but, you do have to worry about repairing sections as the conveyors are non-passable.  This means if a fire or some other damage occurs, you don't be able to reach anything in the centre of your loop.  Also, your ore extractors can share loaders however, having the extra loaders does help your pawn haulers and improves conveyor efficiency.

Quote from: 1000101 on March 22, 2015, 04:33:44 AM
First, loaders get a toggle option for "wait for full stack" which will ... wait ... for a full stack ... before sending it down the line.

Hi 1000101,
Happy to know you find the A2B system useful - always glad to hear this. As per the "full stack" suggestion, I think this extra button would be confusing, and could also cause serious problems (i.e., what if your colonist is hauling more than allowed in the current state, etc ...). I think this is a fair request though, but I guess I would try to implement differently: i.e. the belt do by default stack items "on the move", if they encounter a jam. That way you won't fill the belt system as fast, but there's no need to worry about anything on the user end. Note that this is already in place for the Unloaders (I think?) when dropping items on the floor.

Quote from: 1000101 on March 22, 2015, 04:33:44 AM
Second, a "soft" selector-splitter hybrid which has one filtered output and two unfiltered outputs.

That, I am much less in favor ... ;) While I can see the benefit in some cases, it would also be a very confusing element - and I think that a 2x3 system is "alright" in that case ... and that's a great design, assembling basic logic blocks in something more fancy !

Quote from: passi965 on March 23, 2015, 05:57:01 AM
And i know that Conveyor belts sort of act like walls, so the conveyor belts are to small to support a roof (and let through heat) but high enough to be inpassable.

This should be fixed in the next release, hopefully. I.e. belts will not act like walls anymore, with all of the consequences that this implies - no thermal isolation, etc ...

I have downloaded the newest verison and installed it in the MODS folder, however when I activate the MOD and start the game, I do not have a construction option for them. 

Can anyone help?

Brandon

Quote from: obrien979 on April 11, 2015, 09:48:26 PM
I have downloaded the newest verison and installed it in the MODS folder, however when I activate the MOD and start the game, I do not have a construction option for them. 

Can anyone help?

Brandon

They are not unlocked be default.
You have to Research them first. (which oddly enough does not seem to be mentioned in the OP)
They should have their own "A2B Belts" selection/group under Architect once researched/unlocked.

Hey everyone,

We at A2B are happy to announce the A10 release of our system. It has been thoroughly reasonably tested. Please report any bug/usability issues !

The update also include a few changes: a symmetric selector, the belts will freeze in cold weather, and more research to improve the cold resistance, decrease the wear-and-tear speed of the belts, reduce the heat flash of the teleporters, etc ... Also, belts don't act like walls anymore !

Our engineers are currently working (more like day-dreaming at this stage) on implementing two changes: 1) food ought to get bad on the belts over time (unlike now) and 2) teleporters should be replaced by underground belts.
The point 1) is a tricky one and might take a lot of time. Point 2) looks more promising for a not-so-far away implementation.

Enjoy !

and maybe cross-able belts? can we dream?

Dream no more, belts are already cross-able ! It's costly, and pawns will only do it if they absolutely have to. And they will take their time doing so, to avoid getting their feet stuck in the belt. But still, they are cross-able !

Note that the planned "underground" belt system should look rather pretty and take less space than the teleporter pair, so this would eventually be the best way to do it.

Quote from: A2Bcorp on April 17, 2015, 11:42:03 PM
Dream no more, belts are already cross-able ! It's costly, and pawns will only do it if they absolutely have to. And they will take their time doing so, to avoid getting their feet stuck in the belt. But still, they are cross-able !

Note that the planned "underground" belt system should look rather pretty and take less space than the teleporter pair, so this would eventually be the best way to do it.

ERP!  Can we have the old selector back?  The one with two inputs and two outputs?  It was essential to some of my designs and frankly, the new one is just ... erm ... yeah.  :(

Interesting. Could you explain why the old design was better for your belt system ?

You ought to be able to replicate it by adding a merger just before the Selector, and only connect one of the Selector exit (if only one is available, all items will go there). Same effect as the old Selector, but in a 2x1 structure.

Well, the two-in-two-out allowed for many combinations of logic and when used with other basic blocks, complex systems could be built.

Namely, the option of which orientation input comes from holds a huge importance in the logic structure.  Basically, the original selector was an Or-NE (not-equal) gate now, it's just a NE Gate.

Take this example:  There is absolutely no equivalent way to build this with the new selector.
(https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=10644.0;attach=7355;image)

Also, the two inputs allows for controlling where the outputs are actually going and how it's pathed due to inputs being 90-degree adjacent to both the Or and NE outputs.  Now the input is 90-degree adjacent to the NE outputs and opposite the equivalency output.

This selector would fall into the "edge case" of usefulness for me.  I've actually invest huge amounts of time in my colony design to make sure my conveyor system is efficient. I don't see how this selector adds to the efficiency and, actually, quite the opposite - it's a disaster since now there is NO way to prevent the log-jamming where my 2x3 near-miss method while isn't the most ideal solution in my mind, it's (a) impossible with the new selector and (b) used the core components we are all familiar with.

Really, I can see no logical reason to remove the original selector and replace it with this one.  Perhaps adding a new selector of this type, but not replacing.  Personally I see the original selector as far superior to the new one.  After seeing the A10 update I am tempted to download the source and strip out the selector and replace it with the original one or maybe leave it for edge case, but I can't think of a time when I would ever use this new selector without being forced to.  To wit, the original, better, one is gone.

Further, real-life conveyor belt system use side-offloading mid-line and only end-offload at the shipping docks.  Generally the systems are built in a large horse-shoe layout bring finished products to the same (or near) place which the raw materials are loaded onto the belt.  The original selector was perfect for this and is 100% natural in this regard.  Viewing it in this context, the new selector doesn't make sense at all.  No matter which direction my belt flowed, I could always offload left or right and straight forward.  But the important part is that the reject path is the forward one and the acceptance is one-sided.  This means it needs to inputs.

I did notice that this selector is similar in concept as my hybrid proposal as far as inputs and output go (by numbers).  Not in layout or functionality though.

Maybe it's just me, but I see no logic in this change and for me, it is a severe blow to the usefulness of the mod.

Thanks for that feedback, much appreciated.

The Selector was made symmetric recently in the wake of including symmetric Splitter and Mergers. Some users were highly in favor of a symmetric Selector because it would give them more freedom in their design.

We still maintain that in the current state of affairs, the "old Selector" would be equivalent to a Merger+ New Selector together, with two inputs connected to the merger, and only 2 exits connected to the Selector. So, your 2x3 blocks example could still be build as a 2x4 blocks (with an additional straight belt between the two top left blocks).

This being said:
- The selector is binary (items can be selected or not), hence only two exists are warranted.
- Having the exits back-to-back is probably not the best (as you say), given that belts "usually" flow in one global direction (rather than meet head-on).
- Having two "2" exists offers possibly more flexibility, but this is technically the role of the Splitter.
- We don't like un-happy people. There will always be unhappy people, it's just a matter of minimizing their number ;)

Long-story short, we at A2B are now leaning towards reverting back to the old Selector (2 in's+2 out's). While both designs can be "recovered" in both cases by combining different blocks, an additional "input" seems useful in more cases than an additional "2" exit would be. Especially as the old Selector still was suitable for splitting-off to the left or two the right (either by selecting all-minus-one-item, or one-item-only).

If anyone else vividly disagrees with reverting to non-symmetric selector, raise your voice ! Otherwise, we will go ahead with the downgrade in the next release - that should also include undergound belts (these will eventually replace the teleporters/receiver pairs, but will be introduced along-side them first because they are not perfect just yet) !

Quote from: A2Bcorp on April 17, 2015, 11:42:03 PM


Note that the planned "underground" belt system should look rather pretty and take less space than the teleporter pair, so this would eventually be the best way to do it.

*happy dance*

Quote from: A2Bcorp on April 19, 2015, 07:42:10 PM
Thanks for that feedback, much appreciated.

- snip -

Thanks for considering my input.  :)  I would suggest having the new selector as a second selector option.  It's one more part and it does have it's uses (although I still think they would be edge-cases) and some people, as you point out, do want such a thing.

I can understand why you wouldn't want to do the hybrid selector-splitter as some people could be confused though I can't imagine why, it's just an overflow valve.

I'm not sure how I could rebuild my 2x3 configuration with the new selector as the logic is dependant on two inputs into one selector (the new selector and merger would not work because it would just be splitting back into itself).

Anyway, can't wait to see what else you cook up and I hope I didn't come off as demanding or otherwise disrespectful to your work and vision of what your mod should be.

As one of the folks who was leaning towards a selector that pushes matches left and right, the point (for me) was user experience, not specific cases. One issue with having only one, asymmetric selector is that some selectors need negative lists and some need positive. I originally suggested just having two asymmetric that were mirror images of each other, that way a user would only need one type of list (positive or negative) throughout a system; reducing errors, time spent faffing about with check boxes, and allowing users to make better use of the copy/paste list functionality from good old EdB! The other issue I see with asymmetrics is they're space hungry for simple systems while saving space in complex systems. If it were me, I'd optimize UX for the former over the latter--us nutcases with horribly complex nonsense can abide (assuming of course you prefer not to optimize both, you know, by giving everyone everything all the time.)

For what it's worth: I'd say have either a selector that splits left and right, or two asymmetric selectors (mirrored), or all three, but not a lone asymmetric, regardless of other types.

And @69, if that Rube Goldberg example isn't an edge case, I don't know what is.  ;D

That's the design I have in mind - aren't they equivalent ?

I also build the individual "translations" of the new and old Selectors using the old and new systems. As you can see, the "old" selector is easy to implement with a 2x1 block in the new system, whereas replicating the "new" system with the old Selector is much more complicated (but certainly do-able - note the two selectors will have their selected items mirrored). This is definitely an argument in favor of the new system. Of course, the real question is : how often do one uses BOTH exists "2" in the new selector ? I think the answer is "not very often", which then suggest the "old" Selector is a more appropriate design. Actually, I might start a poll to see how often people use both "2" exists in the new selector.

Quote from: 1000101 on April 19, 2015, 10:08:22 PM
I hope I didn't come off as demanding or otherwise disrespectful to your work and vision of what your mod should be.

Don't worry - that's the kind of discussions I like ;) My driver really is to keep the number of belt elements to a minimum. I would hate to have redundancy, because it only complicate the maintenance of the mod (for which I have very little time), makes updates difficult, confuses players, and clutters the screen (which I hate).

So, I am really keen to get the few elements designed just right to fit most design needs - and the kind of discussions we are having is what I need to open my mind to designs I had not previously envisaged. I still haven't quite gotten my head around your 'soft selector' idea, but I will give it more thoughts.

Note that anyone willing to contribute to the mod directly is more than welcome to do so - that's why it is on Github, and that's why we have a separate account for it on the forum. That way, hopefully, the mod will outlast myself on here, and won't just die out ;) If you want to design the soft-selector, I'd be happy to add it to the mod and see how it works out ...

Right now, my focus is on the underground system.

Edit:
Thanks FamousShoes for the feedback. You do make a very good point - now I remember why I thought it made so much sense to have a symmetric splitter in the first place :D
I won't revert things just now "because I don't have the time" (and will ponder the matter further). Part of the issue lies in the fact that I am yet to play with the mod in A10 and thoroughly test the system for myself.

In the meantime, I'd suggest using the combination ' selector+ merger = old selector '. But it looks like this "Selector" question will remain a tricky one for the foreseeable future ...  ;)

[attachment deleted due to age]

You see your 2x4 is not the same logically as the 2x3 I use.  The difference is that the selector gets a second chance to select the item again which requires two inputs.

How my 2x3 works given two possible states:

Selector state unblocked (filter output path is clear):
The "input splitter" has 50:50 of paths to pick, in the event of the "wrong" path, the second splitter again has a 50:50 to pick the "right" path and send to the selector.  Occasionally it misses but the entire system is built as a giant loop so it will eventually filter in.

Selector state blocked (filter output path full):
The "input splitter" will always pick the unblocked path.  The second splitter has a chance to send again to the selector if it becomes cleared as an item passes through the configuration.

Why the proposed 2x4 is not the same:
It locks an item in the merge which may or may not be wanted while the splitter holds a wanted resource.  The 2x3 only locks a wanted resource in the splitter.

The system is designed around the principle that the destination of the selector has a small ouput chain, that is, it's dropping resources off right at work tables.  As a result, it doesn't want to drop a lot, but it wants to do it frequently.  That way the system can auto-feed the work tables "just enough" at a time to keep work flow while keeping pawns busy doing ANYTHING BUT hauling resources - after all, that's what conveyors are for.

Take a look at this thread (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=11852.0) for a working example of screenshots.

Note:  They system is 100% optimal at about 70% capacity due the designs spacing forcing items to "zig-zag" through it with the exceptions being when an output node is full and the selector is blocked.  However, there are multiple output nodes for the same resource (multiple tables want the same resource).  I have tried to optimize my production chain to minimize multiple same-drop nodes but that isn't entirely possible for some resources.  Also note, that each output node accepts only one resource (only steel, etc) with the exception of the kitchen freezer.

I'm not really sure you'll be able to satisfy all needs without breaking your minimalist design.

Quote from: Famous Shoes on April 19, 2015, 10:47:26 PMAnd @69, if that Rube Goldberg example isn't an edge case, I don't know what is.  ;D

To be fair, this was the "simplest" non-blocking ring system I could achieve with the given parts.  :P

Quote from: 1000101 on April 20, 2015, 12:32:08 AM
You see your 2x4 is not the same logically as the 2x3 I use.  The difference is that the selector gets a second chance to select the item again which requires two inputs.

I still disagree - so let's settle this with an experiment !

I implemented my design in-game, and got 11 items out of 14 I sent down (80%). The exact sorting rate is in fact 75%, i.e. 3 out of 4 items get sorted out, and the last one goes through.

Experiment design: chunks fed one at time and not tight (i.e. the belt wasn't packed). Each exit is not jammed. And only chunks (1 item type) was sent.

You can improve the system further by adding additional "Merger - Splitter" rows just below the "Selector - straight belt" line. Each additional pair will reduce the fraction of mis-selected items by half. I.e.:

A 2x4 design gives you 75% selection rate
A 2x5 design gives you 88% selection rate
A 2x5 design gives you 93% selection rate
etc ...

Of course, you will never get to 100%, only exponentially close ...

Also to be noted: these fractions are upper-limits, when you feed ONLY the item you want to sort. Feeding other items might reduce the exact number depending on their frequency, arrangement, etc ...

When doing the same experiment under the same conditions with your design, I get the same output of 75% selection. Neither design can do anything regarding contamination by other items. Really, I fail to see any difference at all.

But by all means, feel free to prove me wrong - that's what Science is all about ! Do the experiment above under the same conditions, and I am fairly certain that you will too get 75% selection success with your design.


[attachment deleted due to age]

I'll have to do an A9 A2B vs A10 A2B but the core versioning won't factor into the experiment.

The problem I see with your design is that you can't achieve the zig-zag movement of items on the line which will force the path through the splitter at idea conveyor load which is about 70%.  This gives it at best 100% success and at worst 75%.  The other method can (as you pointed out) achieve a nearly mathematical 100% (assuming infinite splitters) and will always lock a (potentially unwanted) extra item.

I'll see about making a video to demonstrate it but this is really becoming a tangent and if I may skip tracks a little...

...Your mention of the github sources and being open to 3rd party additions.

I think this would be best solved on you deciding which will be the standard, then if you would be so kind, make the other as an additional mod to serve as a bit of a tutorial for others (such as myself) on how to make our own add parts.  I would certainly be willing to help in this capacity and I think this would be where my soft-select/overflow valve idea would fit.  I had a brief look at your source but I am yet to actually look into it.

Your preview screenshot confuses me a little. Does the mod do underground conveyor belts now? Cause if so that'd be amazing. I've wanted to use this mod in a game for a while now but I just haven't been able to figure out how to make it work for topological reasons. The teleporters are neat but they've struck me as a little too sci-fi-magic; if you have teleportation why do you need hauling and conveyor belts at all, I find myself thinking, which kinda takes me out of the game. But if conveyors can be run underground like power conduits are (and like heating ducts are in the RedistHeat mod) that'd be really terrific. I'd use the heck out of that, I think.

Quote from: noone on April 19, 2015, 10:55:27 PMPart of the issue lies in the fact that I am yet to play with the mod in A10 and thoroughly test the system for myself.

I'd be willing to bet this will be an issue for many of us for a while, at least until the other great and essential/core mods have a chance to update to A10, e.g., EdB UI, PSI, and so on. I can muck about and do limited play testing for my own and others' mods, but playing seriously enough to get a feel for the UX so we can give useful feedback isn't really appealing as yet. In other words, if I were A2B, I'd hold off on any belt shaking decisions until other authors have caught up and we can all get down to the very serious business of proper play.

Quote from: jefferyharrell on April 20, 2015, 11:29:30 AM
Does the mod do underground conveyor belts now?

Not just yet, but soon (i.e. next weekend-ish). I need to test it Alpha10d, and run a few more sanity checks. These underground belts (only straight lines !) will be released along-side teleporters+receivers at first. If it all goes well, I will then remove the teleporters+receivers pair altogether, as both system are largely redundant.

And yes, they do behave like power conduits, i.e. can go under walls and tables and etc ...

That excites me tremendously. I'm really looking forward to your next release.

Hi noone. Does this combine well with any other mods other than Mechanical Defence?

Quote from: s7jones on April 30, 2015, 02:16:38 PM
Hi noone. Does this combine well with any other mods other than Mechanical Defence?

No clashes with all alpha 10 mod except for Tools for Haul (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=12282.0) mod. When a pawn equipping a cargo (from the tools for haul mod) using the conveyor belt, the cargo will be loaded into the belt along with its contents, unfortunately the cargo will get stuck at the conveyor belt exit.

Since both is pretty much a hauling mod, I guess you should choose one to use for now.

Hi Damienov,

Thanks for your reply. That's good to know as well, but more specificially I was wondering if there are any mods that particularly benefit from the use of conveyor belts too, apart from Mechanical Defence 2 and the vanilla hoppers.

Thanks again.

Quote from: s7jones on April 30, 2015, 04:55:30 PM
[...] I was wondering if there are any mods that particularly benefit from the use of conveyor belts too [...]

We had a nice partnership with Rikiki's "Deep Driller" mod a few Alpha's back. But that mod was discontinued. At the present, the A2B belts can be used to feed the  teleporter device  (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=7570.0) designed by Haplo. It is still a transport mod, but as the teleporter/receivers in A2B will soon be removed, using the two together will become more meaningful.

Other than that, I am sadly not aware of any mod that could significantly benefit from the belts. I.e. I don't know of any 'machine and devices mod' out there. Ultimately, because the A2B belts can reload hoppers and any storage spot, chances are that A2B will work right away with any processing machine similar to the nutrient paste dispenser (e.g. only requires power and food to work).

Hope that helps. Did you have any specific idea/wish in mind ?

Quote from: Damienov on April 30, 2015, 02:44:51 PM
No clashes with all alpha 10 mod except for Tools for Haul (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=12282.0) mod. When a pawn equipping a cargo (from the tools for haul mod) using the conveyor belt, the cargo will be loaded into the belt along with its contents, unfortunately the cargo will get stuck at the conveyor belt exit.

Thanks for reporting that ! This i the first time A2B clashes with another mod, and is good to know. At this time, I've read here and there that the "Tools for Haul" mod has memory leaks, so, I would not recommend using it. But in principle, I don't see why this mod should not be compatible with A2B: I'll take a look eventually, and see if we can reconcile them.

We at A2B are pleased to announce the pre-release of v0.10.1 of the mod, introducing underground belts !

These much awaited and much requested belt elements will allow you to send items underground for a while (straight lines only !). The new 'Undertaker' and 'Undercover' pairs are intended as replacement for the Teleporter and Receiver pairs. Both systems are present in v0.10.1, but our teleportation system will be retired in the next release.

v0.10.1 is tagged as a pre-release, because the underground transport time is at present incorrect (i.e. fixed, no matter how long the underground stretch is). We are working hard on fixing this, but this process is taking more time than anticipated. Nonetheless, the mod is fully usable and should not give rise to any issue (restarting a game is probably required). As usual please report all issues on this list.

Final note to existing mod users: a pair of 'Undertaker' MUST be connected by a series of 'Undercover' element at every location between them. These can be build almost anywhere, and under existing buildings, walls, etc ...  But unlike teleporters, you won't be able to ship items under mountains anymore !

New additional selector components as a mod add-on available now, see the OP!

Gives you a total of 12 selectors for all your Rube Goldberg configurations!

Original thread [locked]: A2B - Selector Options (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=12938)

honestly i would like the option to keep the teleporters unless theres a major issue in the code.

2x-3x the research cost add plasteel into the crafting recipe and increase power costs to make it so you only use them for very long rang teleportations.

this looks amazing! Maybe you could add drones if you are removing the teleporters. Like an MD2 Ore collector being serviced by a adrone to pick up resources. Either by a extra 1x1 loading bay or directly from the extractor. Anyway im looking foward to using this mod with MD2.

Quote from: Arief on May 09, 2015, 09:42:11 AM
this looks amazing! Maybe you could add drones if you are removing the teleporters. Like an MD2 Ore collector being serviced by a adrone to pick up resources. Either by a extra 1x1 loading bay or directly from the extractor. Anyway im looking foward to using this mod with MD2.

Yeah, I doubt droids will every be added to this.  And as you pointed out...MD2 has droids, lots of droids.  A2B Conveyors + MD2 Logistics Droids = w1n.

Also, the MD2 Ore Extractor can connect and feed A2B loaders directly, no need for pawn hauling.

Quote from: 1000101 on May 09, 2015, 01:34:12 PM

Quote from: Arief on May 09, 2015, 09:42:11 AM
this looks amazing! Maybe you could add drones if you are removing the teleporters. Like an MD2 Ore collector being serviced by a adrone to pick up resources. Either by a extra 1x1 loading bay or directly from the extractor. Anyway im looking foward to using this mod with MD2.

Yeah, I doubt droids will every be added to this.  And as you pointed out...MD2 has droids, lots of droids.  A2B Conveyors + MD2 Logistics Droids = w1n.

Also, the MD2 Ore Extractor can connect and feed A2B loaders directly, no need for pawn hauling.

Yeah I know :). But i mean actual Drones. Like the flying type that is faster  ;D Like a drone network. AND/OR!! Have atack drones DUN DUN DUNNN...

Quote from: millenium on May 09, 2015, 09:01:16 AM
honestly i would like the option to keep the teleporters unless theres a major issue in the code.

I am fairly certain that the teleporters will be removed from the main mod. They are largely redundant with the undercover/undertaker system (except for going through mountains), and I was never quite satisfied with their design (as many other mod users as well).

There is also another dedicated teleportation mod by Haplo (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=7570.0). If you really want/need long range fancy transport, I would suggest using this mod in complement to A2B.

Finally, if you are really really keen to keep the A2B Teleporters alive, why not create an add-on ? We have just had our first official add-on by 1000101 that offers 11 new selector designs. These will not be included in the main mod (see this thread a few posts back for details), but they are perfect as an add-on: easily accessible for whoever likes/needs them, without impacting the basic mod users.

Quote from: Arief on May 09, 2015, 09:42:11 AM
Maybe you could add drones if you are removing the teleporters.

Well, I certainly like the idea, but I am also pretty certain that this won't happen ... :) I'm trying to keep things to a minimum in the main mod for clarity and simplicity's sakes. As it was pointed out, there's already a lot of 'droid mods' out there ... If you really feel like flying drones ... maybe you could create an A2B add-on ? :D

Quick question about A2B and Temp.

Do the belts act as a wall or are they negligible in regards to temp loss. Second, would food meals stored on a belt be subject to temp decay?

Belts are not walls anymore - so, you can't close a room with them. At this time however, any meals on the belts will be immune to decay (i.e. immune to large temperatures).

Hoping to fix that eventually ...

tel

Quote from: noone on May 19, 2015, 04:58:22 AM
Belts are not walls anymore - so, you can't close a room with them. At this time however, any meals on the belts will be immune to decay (i.e. immune to large temperatures).

Hoping to fix that eventually ...

One word - teleporting.

Omg when you are done with this version please PLEASE make something like this for prison architect if you are able, if there was ever a game to need something just like this for its lame delivery model it is that game. once your prison gets too large its unable to properly handle movements in a timely manor.

I really like the new undertaker system you've implemented, but would it be possible to cut the power when you designate a part of the conveyor (or undercover) off? I used to do a teleporter with a switch inbetween, so I can cut power to parts of my conveyor, can't do that anymore unfortunately.

Quote from: Timmiej93 on May 23, 2015, 08:52:29 AM
I really like the new undertaker system you've implemented, but would it be possible to cut the power when you designate a part of the conveyor (or undercover) off? I used to do a teleporter with a switch inbetween, so I can cut power to parts of my conveyor, can't do that anymore unfortunately.

That's going to be an inherent problem with the new underground system.  With the teleporter pair, I also used to create belt sub-sections with individual power feeds to control power usage too.  The problem now is the entire belt is connected and the power is handled by the core game.  Since using the underground belt will make it one net, you are left with using the sci-fi magic teleporter pair to break up the power net.  ATM, no other options really exist.

Maybe I'll have a go at an unpowered "slide" belt section which doesn't use or transmit power.  The problem is that one could make an entire belt system out of slides, so some means of placement/usage restrictions would need to be applied (perhaps a requirement to be connected to a powered belt section on the input and output).  Then we can compartmentalize the power net again.  I think the easiest solution is just use the teleporter pair though.  I don't like the sc-fi magic but it has a major advantage over any other solution - it already exists.

Quote from: 1000101 on May 23, 2015, 02:40:36 PM
Maybe I'll have a go at an unpowered "slide" belt section which doesn't use or transmit power.  The problem is that one could make an entire belt system out of slides, so some means of placement/usage restrictions would need to be applied (perhaps a requirement to be connected to a powered belt section on the input and output).  Then we can compartmentalize the power net again.  I think the easiest solution is just use the teleporter pair though.  I don't like the sc-fi magic but it has a major advantage over any other solution - it already exists.

That would be a nice attachement, but wouldn't it be possible to create something like a "switchable belt"? So basically a belt that also functions as a vanilla switch (or a switch that functions as a belt :P). I think this would be easier to understand for everybody, having a 'roller' section that functions just like the belts could probably be confusing.

On the other hand, I recall reading (or made up) that you guys wanted to do more with belt wear and tear. Maybe it would be nice to have the belts wear faster if a stationary object is on top of it (so the belt's moving, but the object is blocked by something, i.e. a full unloader), and have the rollers not wear when something is stationary on top of it. It would definitely make for some interesting choices people would have to make for their system. No more resources backing up on the belt endlessly, unless you want to destroy everything :P

All just idea's though!

PS. I was wondering (haven't tried it yet) if it's possible to have a undertaker go under a wall? Since the undercover has to be everywhere between the two, a wall would break that up wouldn't it?

Undertakers are solid objects which require their own space.  That is, they can't share space with anything else be it walls, other belts, etc.

Undercovers "exist underground" and go "under" anything, walls, tables, other "surface" belts.  Note, the undercover belts are straight, they don't turn.

So if I'm correct, a undercover should be able to go under a wall just fine?
If so, then I'm having a bit of trouble with them, since they wouldn't built when I placed them underneath a wall, and when I removed the walls, installed the undercovers, and tried to rebuild the wall, the wall won't build up again.

Ok, small bugfix for undercovers and placement under walls.

The problem is a small xml bug where the undercover is a non-edifice but still uses up the entire cell.

In your RimWorld directory:
/Mods/RW_A2B/Defs/ThingDefs/Building_A2B.xml

Add this line to the A2BUndercover:  <fillPercent>0</fillPercent>

For example, inserted as line 411:[407]        <building>
[408]            <isInert>true</isInert>
[409]            <isEdifice>false</isEdifice>
[410]        </building>
[411]        <fillPercent>0</fillPercent>
[412]        <graphicPath>Things/Building/Undercover</graphicPath>

After changing this I was able to build undercovers under walls and walls over undercovers without issue.

This fix will be rolled into the next update and more testing without god-mode will be done before it's release.  :)

Thank-you to everyone who reported this.

Testing release of v0.10.2, will only be available for two days.  If you want to get it and test it before an official release, grab it now.

http://expirebox.com/download/3a0e159c4e9f13b774924780fdea995c.html

Changes:
+ Proper multi-level system for belts, surface belts and underground belts;
+ Undercovers:
   + Are straight-cross-over components - there are no underground corners, selectors, etc;
   + Are unpowered but require a powered undertaker in "lift mode" to operate and be active;
   + Unlike surface belts, if an underground belt goes "offline" it will NOT eject it's contents
     nor will it pick-up an object when becoming active again, it will eject it's item if it's
     destroyed, however;
+ Undertakers operate in one of two modes:
   + Either "powered lift" which powers a connected chain of undercover components and draws
     additional power for each undercover it powers, or;
   + "Unpowered slide" which simple pushes items from the surface to the underground;
   + Will attempt to auto-detect mode but some belt configurations may lead to incorrect results
     due to ambiguity, therefore has a "switch mode" button.

If people download and test this and there are no bug reports, this should be good be pushed to a proper update.

Hey i've played some time on this mod and i think that bells-teleporters system isn't really balanced. For example i don't use belts, because they need a loot of steel + energy. it's hard turn off all 100 belts, where on another hand is super easy to just turn off teleporters when player don't need it. And yes, i know that teleporters need a lot of power (cell = x more power), but belts are more expensive in steel and steel can't produced by wind or light, when i will build teleporters i will have steel for building solar panels so it looks that teleporters are in 80% free. + belts need free space etc.

In general - teleporters should be more expensive so players wouldn't use them when they don't need them, and belts should me a more cheeper in costs and power.

Even with underground belts, teleporters are still better.

Immediate download (of course).
I still have a question after reading the description though:
If an underground belt goes offline with objects in it, and later comes back online, does the stuff that was in there still come out? Does it get stuck until it gets destroyed? It makes sense of course that you can't just pick the objects of an underground belt (like you can with the normal belts)

Also, I kinda agree with adamiks. Although I am aware that the teleporter will disappear soon, might still be worth mentioning.
But it's still your mod, you are the only ones that can really judge how not to make the system OP and balance it out.

Quote from: Timmiej93 on May 26, 2015, 06:08:56 AM
Also, I kinda agree with adamiks. Although I am aware that the teleporter will disappear soon, might still be worth mentioning.
But it's still your mod, you are the only ones that can really judge how not to make the system OP and balance it out.

I think that deleting teleporters is a kinda too drastic. Better option is to just make teleporters more expensive in steel (then teleporters will need more steel like belts + a lot of power).

The undercovers, when they go offline, they don't forget the item they carry.  They simply lock it down until they become active again.  Nor do they pick up any items from the ground when they come online again.

As to teleporter/receiver cost, well, if this implementation of the underground works without issue for the masses, the teleporter/receiver will be moved out of the main mod into it's own add-on like the selector options.

If people are having problems with enough steel for their belt systems, personally I recommend using mipen's Mechanical Defense 2 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=7380.0) and it's Industry component.  This allows the creation steam geysers for power and fissures + extractors for the steel.

Aah, that seems to make more sense, yes. Thank you for explaining.

Also, for the lack of steel (I've literally mined out my entire map), the Industrialisation (http://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=8902.0) mod is quite fun too. Very expensive to get going though, and not a huge revenue. Personally I'd recommend boosting the outputs a bit.

Great to see the teleporter becoming an add-on. I never really liked the futuristic stuff, only used it as a workaround. There are probably a lot of people who do like it though, so them having the option to use it is great.

Hey all,

This is a full pre-release until noone gets back to me as I can't directly push to the A2B github repositories yet.

This update is a full re-write of the underground belt system from v0.10.1 and should be fully compatible with your existing colonies.

Quote from: A2B Core changelogUpdate to v0.10.2

bugfixes:
+ Undercover components can properly be built under walls and walls can be built over undercover components without the use of god-mode;
+ Travel time of items through undercovers (see changes below);

changes:
+ Re-write of underground belt system;
+ Underground system is a proper belt system, items move through them like any other belt component;
+ Undercover components:
   + Move items in a straight line from point of entry to point of exit;
   + Can handle cross-overs;
   + Can run under surface belt components, walls, tables, etc;
   + Use no power directly allowing power grid segmentation;
   + Goes offline if there is no active, connected powered lift;
   + Unlike surface components, does not release items when going offline or pick items up when coming online;
   + Are subject to freezing and jamming;
+ Undertaker components:
   + Transfer from surface to underground and vice-versa;
   + Should auto-detect between "unpowered slide" (surface to underground) and "powered lift" (underground to surface) mode;
   + Have a button to force the mode (some component connections may lead to ambiguity such as a curve into an undertaker);
   + When in powered mode, draws additional power for each undercover component connected to it;
   + When in slide mode, does not use power and will not feed the underground if it's offline;
   + Slides are subject to jamming;
   + Powered lifts are subject to freezing and jamming

Quote from: A2B Selector changelogUpdate to v0.10.2

changes:
+ Updated code to work with A2B Core v0.10.2;
+ Change in category defs, all future optional components will use this category

Downloads:
A2B Core (https://www.dropbox.com/s/7xv1gkpn9tvck5e/RW_A2B_v0.10.2.zip?dl=0)
A2B Selectors (https://www.dropbox.com/s/rtoj5yuw9k2yswf/RW_A2B_Selector_v0.10.2.zip?dl=0)

I ran a quick test, everything seems to be working properly now 1000101.

Only thing I noticed is that the selectors folder has a different name then for the previous version, which means you can't just overwrite the previous one. I forgot about that, had to disable the older version and enable the new version, then everything worked fine.

Thanks for the quick update!

hrm, I did not know changing the designation category would affect that.  The components themselves haven't changed other than the category.

Or did you mean that you just overwrote the addon and had two options categories (the old and the new)?  The file name stayed the same but the category itself changed.

No I meant the folder that comes from the .zip file, if I recall correctly, the previous version had the version number behind it, so something like "A2B Selectors v0.10.1", and the new version is just "A2B Selectors".

I just pasted the new folders in (both A2B Belts and A2B Selectors), which means only the belts folder got overwritten (which the games automatically keeps enabled), and the new selectors folder just got pasted in, next to the old one. The game obviously handles the new folder like a new mod, so you have to activate it, and de-activate the old version.

Since I forgot to do that, I'm guessing more people will forget, so I thought I'd let people know.

There's nothing wrong with the new category name or anything else, just something to be aware of for the end users :)

Ahh, I didn't realize? that I? put the version number in the directory name.  Somebodies bad (mine?  noone?)

Anyway, proper update now, shouldn't contain any version info in the directory names.

Sorry about that people, will try to make sure it doesn't happen again after this release.

These belts are an absolute wonder when used together with the quantum stockpiles. The new undercovers are pretty and elegant too.
I wonder if you could make a compatibility feature with the MD2 deep storage units so the unloaders dump stuff on them properly (they unload 75 units then get sort of jammed...) That'd bring automation to a whole new level.  ;)

I don't understand one thing... For what we need underbelts when we have (in my opinion better) teleporters? Teleporters needs power, underbelts needs steel (40 for cell....), for me teleporters are still better (and quicker in transporting).

Quote from: Adamiks on June 04, 2015, 01:51:14 PM
I don't understand one thing... For what we need underbelts when we have (in my opinion better) teleporters? Teleporters needs power, underbelts needs steel (40 for cell....), for me teleporters are still better (and quicker in transporting).

Some people don't like the sci-fi magic of teleporters.  They will be an add-on in future versions but the core mod will be a magic free zone.

And the underground belts do require power, just not directly.  The undertaker which lifts the items back up draws 10 additional power for each undercover connected to it.

Is there any way to have a "limit the radius for ingredients" type filter for Loaders?
It would make using the "important" status in a far site, much more practical to use.

Edit -
Trying to simply add
<IngredientSearchRadius>Ingredient radius</IngredientSearchRadius>
was obviously fated to fail.

Looking at JobDriver_DoBill.cs file, but that's beyond my skill set atm.
            //Too far away - skip
if( (actor.Position - targetQueue[i].Thing.Position).LengthHorizontalSquared > MaxDist*MaxDist )
continue;

This looks so tempting.

Edit 2 - I wonder how can I make an unholy union of the code from JobDriver_DoBill.cs into BeltLoaderComponent.cs

The belts don't give any jobs, that's all handled by the normal haul job driver.  The loaders just give a place to haul things like any other storage building and the belt coding handles the movement of items on the belts.

Quote from: 1000101 on June 04, 2015, 09:03:58 PM
The belts don't give any jobs, that's all handled by the normal haul job driver.  The loaders just give a place to haul things like any other storage building and the belt coding handles the movement of items on the belts.

Ah.. That clears up a few things.

Just wondering,
Is it possible to make an automated production table (with 0 crafting etc or some common skill that every hauler will have) that requires input of whatever you want to transport, which then outputs the same thing onto the adjacent conveyor belt?
Not sure about the output as currently a table drops the completed item on the position where the worker is..
I wish there was an option of take to the nearest stockpile in production tables.

The point is, I want someway of having a range radius to the items that can be picked and taken to the loader.

Quote from: nmidJust wondering,
Is it possible to make an automated production table (with 0 crafting etc or some common skill that every hauler will have) that requires input of whatever you want to transport, which then outputs the same thing onto the adjacent conveyor belt?
Not sure about the output as currently a table drops the completed item on the position where the worker is..
I wish there was an option of take to the nearest stockpile in production tables.

The point is, I want someway of having a range radius to the items that can be picked and taken to the loader.

I think the MAI assembler in the Miscellaneous mod does what you are describing as far as "auto-building" and not the conveyor aspect.  That may be worth checking out as a starting point.

Quote from: 1000101 on June 03, 2015, 04:15:32 PM
Ahh, I didn't realize? that I? put the version number in the directory name.  Somebodies bad (mine?  noone?)

It wasn't for this version, the update you provided was without version info, but the one I had in my mods folder (previous version), did have version info in the folder name. No harm done though, it's an easy fix.

Quote from: nmid on June 04, 2015, 09:36:30 PM
The point is, I want someway of having a range radius to the items that can be picked and taken to the loader.

This would be VERY interesting.. I hate seeing my haulers bring stuff from the unloader to the loader on the same belt. Easy fix of course by designating proper preference levels (or whatever it's called) for the stockpiles and loaders, but it would be interesting to see what can be done with the range for loading.

Good luck rewriting the haul job driver.  :)  I don't think it possible with anything less.

I think a better solution is to rethink your colony layout and optimize your resource and production flow.  When building loaders, for example, I build them in threes going into a merger feeding the belt.  This prevents a single pawn from blocking a single entry node when it reserves the loader for the haul task.  Anyone familiar with manufacturing will understand the horseshoe concept of production flow although I tend to use a closed loop system so the belt reseeds itself.

Quote from: 1000101 on June 07, 2015, 06:57:26 AMWhen building loaders, for example, I build them in threes going into a merger feeding the belt. 

Haha, when I get home, I'll share this exact setup already done in my colony.
It's been there for the past few days now.
I had to change the preferability to normal though, down from important (as my stockpiles are 'preferred'.)

Quote from: 1000101 on June 07, 2015, 06:57:26 AM
Anyone familiar with manufacturing will understand the horseshoe concept of production flow although I tend to use a closed loop system so the belt reseeds itself.

I have seen the introductory screenshot, which I'm assuming is an example of the closed loop system? Not sure how that helps, unless your conveyor system is overloaded?
Perhaps I'm just being dense atm, but can you explain the horseshow and closed loop system to me please.

Thanks.

The basic idea of a horseshoe production system is your belts go around the outside of your production area in the shape of a giant "horseshoe."  When I say I use a "closed loop," I simple turn the horseshoe into a circle so if an item on the belt misses it's target (for example, using soft selectors set to steel and the unloading area is full) it can come back around and try again...and again...and again...

Think about what your resources are, where they are going, what order they will be used and just play with designs and layouts.  Eventually you will figure out a reasonably optimal design.

Simple horseshoe production:
(https://photos-2.dropbox.com/t/2/AAD4tnFfq7jsT2el9NN-Q1WohRNeH2RhoPWESlzEdAtJ8A/12/429507064/png/32x32/1/_/1/2/A2B_Horseshoe_Production.png/CPiD58wBIAEgAiADIAQgBSAGIAcoAg/kr2U0d2yxSERm8TdVJgbbVVT7eGB5qK1Gh90LP05n2g?size=1024x768&size_mode=2)

Closing the loop by connecting to the main belt loop:
(https://photos-3.dropbox.com/t/2/AACzR4nLJavRFerpK_uy57X33ARkcJuGfv_zXpz7M0ECRA/12/429507064/png/32x32/1/_/1/2/A2B_Horseshoe_Closed.png/CPiD58wBIAEgAiADIAQgBSAGIAcoAg/7x_tKIZSg0xc9vzSrUs4VUlBiRnLyz7CjrFmUn4QPPg?size=1024x768&size_mode=2)

Remember, these were quick mock-ups to show the basic idea, not an ideal factory layout.  The important parts are that the main belt only supplies a branch with what it needs using a hard selector, the tables are fed from the horseshoe with soft selectors and have enough belt space to keep a pawn busy working at a table.  The central load area uses multiple loaders all set with the same acceptance and feed back into the main belt.

For warehousing, I will typically use the inverse principle as the loaders.  The main belt filters through a soft-selector which feeds a splitter which in turn feeds three unloaders and stockpiles.  I'll be sure to either provide enough belt space between the selector and splitter to keep the warehouse stocked or, more likely, use Ratys RT Storage (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=11272.0) mods Quantum Warehouses and Quantom Relays.

The important thing about the warehousing is that I set it up so each unloader (or unloader set of 3) unloads one thing into a stockpile which accepts one thing.  ie:  The selector and stockpile will only be set to steel, not steel, plasteel, gold and silver, just steel.  For things which either can't be produced locally (such as half the stoneblocks on a given map) or at all (AI Cores, neurotrainers, etc), I may share stockpiles and unloaders depending on the items in question.

Finally, also note the direction of travel of the main belt and the production branch (horseshoe).  The horseshoes output connection to the main belt is after it's input connection from the main belt.  This is important so items must go through the main loop before returning the branch which created it.  This way you can still get the resources back you need locally but other production areas which rely on remote production of a resource will be fed as well.  Of course, if you use something like RT Storage, you can forgo belts in the production area completely and use Relays.  But, for people who don't like sci-fi magic teleportation, this is the basic principle of how real factories (which are production line based) are setup.

Any update on this? We really love the mod and want it for Alpha 11!

it's 99.9% ready, it's the 0.1% that has been holding it back for a couple days now.

Only a couple of days, though? Excellent. Thanks for the update and the hard work on this mod!

update pls  :D last thing i need for my colony

Here is an updated release, if nothing else i hope this helps A2Bcorp (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=38732) out a bit. A2B Conveyors A11 (https://github.com/Ninefinger85/UltimateOverhaulModpack/blob/master/A2BConveyorsA11.zip?raw=true)

All credit goes to A2Bcorp (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=38732) and special thanks to Obs (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=45600) for providing the update.

Thanks for the link, Ninefinger. Any help is always very appreciated.

Although if anyone manages to update the mod faster than we do, why not email it to us first via pm so we can use it to create the official release faster - without confusing the mod users with official and non official updates ?

Please (please!) don't take this as an angry/negative/sarcastic comment - we at A2B are certainly glad to see the mod being updated and used and shared ! But we are also very happy to get help via Github or pm to speed things up and make things better - this is why the A2B corporation was set up in the first place: to ensure that the mod does not rest with a single user, but keeps living and evolving beyond us all ! And so we're always looking for new contributors to join us on Github - be it for one alpha update, or for longer endeavors !

As 1000101 wrote above:

Quote from: 1000101 on June 16, 2015, 11:58:47 AM
it's 99.9% ready, it's the 0.1% that has been holding it back for a couple days now.

Basically, we have a small visual glitch, but the official A11 version should come out very soon. This update will contain good things here and there, and teleporters+receivers will now form their own "extension" to the base mod (alongside the expanded Selectors extension). More details when the release actually happen.

Quote from: A2Bcorp on June 23, 2015, 03:28:18 AM
Thanks for the link, Ninefinger. Any help is always very appreciated.

Although if anyone manages to update the mod faster than we do, why not email it to us first via pm so we can use it to create the official release faster - without confusing the mod users with official and non official updates ?

Please (please!) don't take this as an angry/negative/sarcastic comment - we at A2B are certainly glad to see the mod being updated and used and shared ! But we are also very happy to get help via Github or pm to speed things up and make things better - this is why the A2B corporation was set up in the first place: to ensure that the mod does not rest with a single user, but keeps living and evolving beyond us all ! And so we're always looking for new contributors to join us on Github - be it for one alpha update, or for longer endeavors !

As 1000101 wrote above:

Quote from: 1000101 on June 16, 2015, 11:58:47 AM
it's 99.9% ready, it's the 0.1% that has been holding it back for a couple days now.

Basically, we have a small visual glitch, but the official A11 version should come out very soon. This update will contain good things here and there, and teleporters+receivers will now form their own "extension" to the base mod (alongside the expanded Selectors extension). More details when the release actually happen.

when will it come 1 to 2 days ?

It will come.

;D

But i love this mod so much I cant play without it  :'(

i really dont understand how that work for help your collony (maybe because i'am not english so i don't really understand what is say but i tryed few time for see and...)
So, someone can put a vids or pic of his collony with a A2B System ?

Thanks so much

Update (23/06/15)
-Fixed all graphical bugs

Here is an updated release, if nothing else i hope this helps A2Bcorp (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=38732) out a bit. A2B Conveyors A11 (https://github.com/Ninefinger85/UltimateOverhaulModpack/blob/master/A2BConveyorsA11.zip?raw=true)

All credit goes to A2Bcorp (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=38732) and special thanks to Obs (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=45600) for providing the update.

Did, erm, did Obs decompile then recompile the source?

I just ask because of the file structure in the download provided is completely different than the actual file structure (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B) which is available for anyone to download on github.  As noone said, we'd prefer that people don't share unofficial releases but instead offer help to resolve issues to speed an official release.  Releasing something like this may cause confusion for the users down the road and may lead to cluttering up the thread with posts which aren't related to A2B.  If A2B ever becomes "dead in the water," please offer to join the team to keep the project alive instead.

Also, I'm not sure what "graphical bugs" where fixed in this.  The issue we're having has to do with the animated graphics and not simply the drawSize (that I fixed as a round-one pass during my code update).  The glitch we're having is much deeper than that and has to do with animation of the teleporter/receivers.

Anyway, noone is now reviewing the code to see if he can find a solution and if he can't in the next day we'll make teleporters use a static graphic and release an official A11 update with the animated glitch to be fixed later.

Look for an official update in the next 24-72 hours and thanks everyone for all your support.

I don't think Ninefinger is trying to "takeover" your mod. He's just doing it so he can use it in the modpack he provides till your official mod update to alpha 11. Where he generally switches over. I'm sure he will remove the download link when you update it.
He has given you the credit. If you view his topic it now links to all mod creaters and authors of them.
Remmeber, you make the mods for people to play. He's simply providing a temporary fix till then ;)
Can I ask though. Is there any updated how to with this mod? It's a tad confusing with the new selectors.

I didn't mean to come off sounding harsh or like I was making an accusation, I was just confused as to the method - why decompile-recompile when the sources are available?  Also, perhaps it's better to first PM the original mod author (in this case noone) and/or another active member of the mod team (TehJoE/myself) before uploading to the community at large.  This is fairly common practice in modding scenes.

To put that all to bed, no harm has been done and no offence has been taken.  Certainly no animosity is coming from the A2B team on this, we appreciate that people like the mod well enough to take the time to do their own updates when the devs are slacking, er, have real life.  ¬¸¬

As to a "how-to" manual for A2B, I was thinking on this myself and perhaps a couple animated gifs to demonstrate some key concepts would help.  Most notably the "soft selectors" seem to cause some confusion.

Right now I am working on finalizing the new graphics I got from noone last night with the code updates for A11.  Stay tuned!

Edit:
Added a poll to the OP about power transmission.  I'm on the fence about this so I want you, the user, to let me know!

Still waiting for alpha 11 update

The components of the belt must not transfer power. The equipment must not be used for transmission of power lines - in this case, its use becomes dangerous. It is more logical to lay wires separately, implying that they are neatly stacked / hidden in boxes, etc. I think that as more believable.

Alpha 11 is ready! (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=10644.0)

Teleporter/receiver form their own add-on now.  Don't worry about the graphic glitch with them, that will be fixed.  It's just a visual anomaly, the components themselves work fine.

People seem to be on the fence about the power transmission issue.  Nothing on that front will change right now and if it does, it will be in Alpha 12.  If you have an opinion on the subject, please feel free to share it and discuss it.

A2B is committed to bringing you the tools you need to build a successful colony.  As such, we want feedback from our users on how to improve our products.

Hey people,

I accidentally cleared the poll results while trying figure out how to delete the poll.

The results where as follows:
Q: Should the belt components transmit power?
A (5 votes): Yes, I don't want to build power conduits!
A (3 votes): No, I want more control over my power grid!

Personally, I don't think there were even enough votes to be definitive.  I'm leaning towards "no" myself but I didn't vote.  Even so, it seems that even the community is on the fence about it.

can you make an under ground curve and selector too

No.

Okay, that's a bit harsh :) It is a fair suggestion, but my answer is no, not in the main mod (unless the other A2Bcorp members manage to convince me otherwise). If someone wants to code this as an add-on, then sure, why not. This is what add-ons are for.

But I personally still aim at keeping the main mod as small as possible. Underground belts are useful as they are and already fully serve their purpose: to allow your colonists to cross the belts, etc ... adding underground curves and selectors only expands the amount of choice (and clutter), but doesn't add any new functionality. And so far, I have always been very reluctant top add anything redundant ...

Long story short, the A2B corporation will welcome with open arms any code suggestions for implementing underground curves and selectors as an add-on. But I won't code this myself ... ;) I can't speak for the other A2Bcorp member of course ...

Quote from: noone on June 26, 2015, 03:23:06 AM
No.

Okay, that's a bit harsh :) It is a fair suggestion, but my answer is no, not in the main mod (unless the other A2Bcorp members manage to convince me otherwise). If someone wants to code this as an add-on, then sure, why not. This is what add-ons are for.

But I personally still aim at keeping the main mod as small as possible. Underground belts are useful as they are and already fully serve their purpose: to allow your colonists to cross the belts, etc ... adding underground curves and selectors only expands the amount of choice (and clutter), but doesn't add any new functionality. And so far, I have always been very reluctant top add anything redundant ...

Long story short, the A2B corporation will welcome with open arms any code suggestions for implementing underground curves and selectors as an add-on. But I won't code this myself ... ;) I can't speak for the other A2Bcorp member of course ...

(http://i.memeful.com/media/post/rw99lrw_700wa_0.gif)

The underground component offers a feature which the surface components do not, namely, they cross-over.  This is completely unique to the underground.  The other thing is, it's not that hard to bring items back up to the surface, turn, split, merge, select, etc, then send them back down.

The idea of the underground components isn't to build an underground network but to provide means to bypass obstacles such as walls and work tables.

So, like noone, I'm not a fan of this idea either.

Major Update v0.11.1

Our team of engineers have worked hard to optimize the core and overhaul the teleporters!

Teleportation is not limited to a straight line anymore.  Assign your teleporter and receivers wireless network channels and they can go anywhere.  Not enough channels available?  Research is available to expand on your teleports capabilities and reliability!

awesome. A11!

Quick question, is there any way to limit the loading radius for the loaders?
I had to do a lot of mm with priorities to ensure my colonists didn't try loading the loader from the other extreme side of the map... or even from the end point to the starting point.

I don't want to do a horseshoe conveyor build as it turns out to be expensive in materials + space + power.

That was asked for before and it can't be done.

It's a core haul job driver, it's no different than any stockpile or storage building.

There are plenty of mods to help with the materials and power issue.

As to space well, they are mobile storage delivering directly to work tables, they are as space efficient as it gets in that respect.  The difference is that instead of having huge stockpiles, you have conveyors which are stockpiles with their own haul jobs.

I had asked before as well, but as I'm not a coder I guess the earlier response went over my head :p

I was hoping that A2BCorp could come up with some way of making it more .. usable (for me) :)

(also, I had a mental block in trying to understand what a core haul job driver was the 1st time around... now I'm just reading it as a non-coding term and it sorta makes sense :p)

Anyway, thanks for replying.

Quote from: nmid on July 03, 2015, 01:44:36 AM
I had asked before as well, but as I'm not a coder I guess the earlier response went over my head :p

I was hoping that A2BCorp could come up with some way of making it more .. usable (for me) :)

(also, I had a mental block in trying to understand what a core haul job driver was the 1st time around... now I'm just reading it as a non-coding term and it sorta makes sense :p)

Anyway, thanks for replying.

No worries, "the squeaky wheel get's the grease."  Unfortunately, these aren't the people that can grease that wheel.  :)

For that, you need to put a request into the suggestion forums to Tynan about how the WorkGiver_Haul works.  Specifically, a request for a range limit, possibly attached to the storage settings like item filters and quality.

I am not 100% sure but it seems that everything is working for A11b except for the Belt texture.

How do the underground belts work?

Shouldn't this be working?

(http://i.imgur.com/IDy58DYh.png)

I think the undertakers need to be right up to the wall, and you don't need the two coolers. One's usually enough.

@Thorbane:

Oops,  your setup is correct.  It's a power detection bug in the undertakers when in slide mode.  I've got this fixed at my end and will upload a fix soon.

Thanks for reporting it!

@Mj64:

Undertakes can be anywhere in a room (or outside) like any surface belt.  You require undercovers to go under tables, walls, etc.

UndertakerMode image not loading and red texted the debug log.
Some red text from teleporter and selector.

And the thing that killed it for me. It froze in cold temperature (-50C outside).
Great idea though, much like bringing Rimworld and Factorio together.

v0.11.2:  Alpha 11b Update

This optimizes and addresses issues with the underground components, including fixing the slide power issue.

Also adds French translation by kaptain-kavern.

I believe that there should be underground belts that turn, or that it should just detect the entire underground network as one single network.  I wanted to place an underground conveyor from my out of base trade beacon where traders drop off goods outside my shields and the underground belts take the supplies to my base and spit them out for my logistic droids to sort and stash way.

Quote from: rsof69can you make an under ground curve and selector too

Quote from: VasI believe that there should be underground belts that turn, or that it should just detect the entire underground network as one single network.  I wanted to place an underground conveyor from my out of base trade beacon where traders drop off goods outside my shields and the underground belts take the supplies to my base and spit them out for my logistic droids to sort and stash way.

Quote from: noone
No.

Okay, that's a bit harsh :) It is a fair suggestion, but my answer is no, not in the main mod (unless the other A2Bcorp members manage to convince me otherwise). If someone wants to code this as an add-on, then sure, why not. This is what add-ons are for.

But I personally still aim at keeping the main mod as small as possible. Underground belts are useful as they are and already fully serve their purpose: to allow your colonists to cross the belts, etc ... adding underground curves and selectors only expands the amount of choice (and clutter), but doesn't add any new functionality. And so far, I have always been very reluctant top add anything redundant ...

Long story short, the A2B corporation will welcome with open arms any code suggestions for implementing underground curves and selectors as an add-on. But I won't code this myself ... ;) I can't speak for the other A2Bcorp member of course ...

Corning in underground belts could be possible with some small changes to the code.  The code which detects which lift powers an undercover belt would become more complex and potentially introduce lag though.

If it was implemented, I see it as this:

No new components are added, undercovers would redirect to either "left" or "right" (relative to flow of items on the belt) depending on the connection.  The problem and therefore limit is that you would only be able to have simple corners (no "T" junctions AKA merging or splitting) as the belt wouldn't know which direction to send it.

The reason for this is how the cross-over aspect works.  The undercovers do not have predetermined direction input and output directions ("flow"), it's dependant on the belt which transfers the item to it to also encode the flow.  This allows the cross-over connections to properly send items straight across.  Introducing cornering is simple enough as there would only be one "alternate" and when outputting it would update the encoded item flow.  A "T" junction would cause problems as it wouldn't know which way to send it since the, as stated above, undercover belts are inherently directionless.

As to adding new components such as mergers, selectors, etc, this would clutter the architects tab and as noone pointed out, the idea is to maintain a simple core mod and use add-ons to add additional functionality.  The other problem is, it becomes that much harder to maintain your conveyor network when you can't see what orientation your belts are when they are under everything.

That being said, I have given thought as to being able to remove the cover from underground components to allow colonists to retrieve items from them when they go offline.  This would be a gizmo button on the undercover components to "Remove" and "Replace" the "access panel."  Removing the access panel would impose a heavy pathing cost for pawns (like the surface belts 1000) and would only be available if nothing was on it (ie, can't remove the panel under a wall or work table).

So, tl;dr, cornering is a possibility, anything beyond is not really practical.

Well I did only suggest cornering.  I don't want underground T junctions and all.  Underground belts can't be complex like that or items get jammed a lot.

I'm not sure how the code works, I thought at first, it would detect how many is attached to it, so if I built 50 underground belts attached to one entrance and one exit, it would do a scan when I click to turn it on, and determine that there are 50 connected to it between it and the other end.  It would then store this in one of the two ends or both or whatever.  Have you seen that air mod?  With air ducts?  It gives a network ID to air ducts that act like conduits.  You might consider that same thing.

Anyway, I found out after it can only do straight lines, which sucked for me.  So you're saying it would be too laggy to use the code to just detect how many is connected, delay the item by x conveyors / speed of conveyors, and just spit it out on the other end?  Then having code tell the individual segments to notify the ends that it has been damaged beyond use anymore after a certian point and must be repaired before the network can go again?  Even if you were to add a new button to both ends that says "Scan network" to detect them all to see if it's proper and be required to do this if one of the belts reports damage to stop the flow?

There is also that network idea I mentioned too.

That was sort of how it was first implemented but it was changed so the underground components use the same belt mechanics as the surface components.  The only difference is how the manage pathing and that undercovers don't directly consume power.

As to power, if an undercover isn't registered with a lift, it looks in each of the four directions (NWSE) until it finds no more undercovers or an active powered lift.  If it finds a lift, it registers with it.  When a lift goes offline (or is destroyed) it tells all the components registered with it (undercovers and slides) that they need to find new lifts to draw on (well, slides use no power but without a lift they won't come online).  So, cornering is a simple addition in this respect.  When I updated the code to work like this, the idea was to optimize when and how often undercovers and slides look for an active lift.  If they are registered and the lift they are registered with is online, they don't look at all.  Cornering in this aspect is relatively easy to handle.

You are very right about jams though, during my stress testing for the last update, I managed to jam everything up in a variety of configurations.

So what about using the network ID?  The air duct mod (which I'm likely about to stop using), lets you link items in a network ID even the things that are "above ground".  I'm not sure how it works, or how the conduits in it qualify.  But every different item was able to connect to the same network and work like that.  It was just way too slow to be realistic for me.  A big ass vent in my room barely able to keep it above freezing when the main room (intake) was 70F?  Yea, I can't find this realistic.  xP

Anyway, it used an interesting method really, that might be able to work for the conveyors, that way if you build a new part next to another one, it just connects to the network ID and there is no need for scanning all the time.  Just throwing it out there though as a possibility.

In the method you mentioned, I hope you don't intend to make an "Underground corner" item, I prefer less items.  I think it would be just fine for the underground cover to drag in each direction and "automatically corner" those areas.  :P  Not with a new item, but yea. I think you know what I mean.

Yeah, just simply corner when appropriate.  I'll see what can be done.

will this A11b version work with the A11a game version? not all the mods i'm using are updated yet and there is no link for the A11a version of this mod.

Quote from: SteelRevwill this A11b version work with the A11a game version? not all the mods i'm using are updated yet and there is no link for the A11a version of this mod.

When on github, select Tags (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/tags) instead of Releases (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/releases).

Be aware when using an earlier release, you may experience bugs which have been fixed since.

Thanks Binary, I had never used github before.

EDIT:
Why is this rice stuck??
it won't move down the line, it was the first item put there.


[attachment deleted due to age]

Quote from: SteelRev on July 12, 2015, 03:01:35 PM
Why is this rice stuck??
it won't move down the line, it was the first item put there.

Did you build the underground conveyor under that wall? It looks like that's what's missing, but I can't tell with the wall in the way.

Quote from: hairlessOrphan on July 13, 2015, 09:54:18 AM

Quote from: SteelRev on July 12, 2015, 03:01:35 PM
Why is this rice stuck??
it won't move down the line, it was the first item put there.

Did you build the underground conveyor under that wall? It looks like that's what's missing, but I can't tell with the wall in the way.

Yes, the slide not using power and showing the "I lack power" icon is a dead give away that there is a missing undercover between the slide and lift under that wall stub.

nope, there is an undercover under the wall. original setup i made had them going all the way to food storage but the belts under the storage wall were frezzing up in the -50f temp. I noticed after i made the post that the no power thing was a bug patched between A11a and A11b versions of the mod. a bit disappointing while i wait for my other mods to be updated to 11b

If you plan on playing on very cold biomes, you may want to look into Mods/RW_A2B/Defs/A2BDataDefs/A2BData.xml at the temperature stuff.

I translated your mod is on Russian language and posted it on our website.
http://all-mods.ru/raznoe/rimworld-konvejernye-lenty-i-sostavlyayushhie/
Download it here :
https://yadi.sk/d/myIH1S25i2sGc

That's great!

It's better to do a pull/push requests on the github repositories (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/) though, then we can include changes directly.

A2B v0.11.3 Test Release
Built against RimWorld Alpha 11b

This has not been pushed to github yet and right now is in my dropbox.  This is to let people test the new functionality of the underground system and alert me if it's not save compatible.

Changes:

• Undercovers can path!  Cornering, crossovers, splitting, merging!
• You can remove the cover from undercover components.  This will (a) help you with setting up your undercover belt network and (b) let you recover things from undercover belts if they lose power.
  Notes:
  • Belts with covers toggled off will incur a movement penalty to pawns crossing them.
  • Covers can not be removed if the belt is under anything (wall, work table, etc).
  • Toggling covers is a "flick" job. Further plant-cutting, hauling and cleaning jobs will automagically be issued to clear the area before a cover can be toggled.

• Covers are destoyable!  If a cover is destoyed toggling the cover on will create a blueprint to build a new one (you get the initial cover with the belt itself).
• A2B research no longer has a "load game delay."  On game load, research will apply instantly as it should.

The official update to v0.11.3 will be built against the latest RW update (currently 11d).

Downloads
Core v0.11.3 no source (https://www.dropbox.com/s/y8z6pm5l81dfw4e/RW_A2B_v0.11.3_nosource.zip?dl=0)
Selector v0.11.3 no source (https://www.dropbox.com/s/t6ano5d0gafbpb0/RW_A2B_Selector_v0.11.3_nosource.zip?dl=0)
Teleport v0.11.3 no source (https://www.dropbox.com/s/ds66prp8bdqz5kv/RW_A2B_Teleport_v0.11.3_nosource.zip?dl=0)

Hello

I am using this, but it occored in loop.

So, i built loader, and unloader directly to warehouse. The problem is, everytime the stuff get to WH, some one will out it again at loader, so the loop happen.

1. Colonist name A put bodies at loader.
2. Loader proceed it.
3 The come to unloader directly to WH.
4. Stuff get sorted buy someone on there.
5. Someone take other bodies in WH, the dump again at loader in 1 step.

I built, loader have higher priority that warehouse.

So, any ting wrong with my setup?

     I realize that you don't want to make this a big mod, but I would like for the belts to have some way of automatically crafting. Maybe make an expensive item that you place in the work spot for the bench and it will slowly craft stuff that you have ordered to be crafted in that workbench. The only alternative method that I can think of is to make an assembling plant for each workbench or- if that's too overpowered or difficult to code- one for each recipe. I personally think the first choice would be way easier. And if it uses a specific crafting level to determine the speed at which it crafts, I would imagine that it would be easy to add a configuration option for different users. Of course, the machine being able to be placed in a spot blocked by the crafting apparatus could be quite tricky to code, so if you can't do it, I don't blame you. I just really want to make a working factory, and I feel like since your mod already has the belts to automatically move things from machine to machine, it should also have a way to use them, too.

     Also on the suggestion list: crossover belts, stack seperators (which splits stacked items similar to how the splitter does except with one item on the belt being split up instead of one stack is sent one way while the other stack is sent the other way (this might already be what your splitter does as I haven't used them that much, in which case, make one that does what the other one doesn't)), stack combiners (which stops one stack and waits for another of the same kind to arrive (in the event that two different items show up, make it unstop the first one and instead stop the second one)), a whitelist belt which stops when the specified item is not detected, and a blacklist belt which allows everything but the specified item through. Also, a variant of your belts that automatically stop consuming power when an item is not currently being transported would be nice, too.

     Sorry for the length of this post. I just wanted to get my ideas out there and hopefully make some of them a reality.

You can do direct cross-throughs with underground belts, surface belts you can cross-under with an underground belt.

The merging of item stacks on belts is something which has been in the back of our minds (noone, TehJoes and my own) for a while but is a low priority.  It's something that will "one day" get implemented though.  :P

As to everything else, those would be good as separate add-on mods.  A2B is about conveying goods, not production but those are some good ideas.  :)

Quote from: 1000101 on August 06, 2015, 03:20:38 PM
You can do direct cross-throughs with underground belts, surface belts you can cross-under with an underground belt.

The merging of item stacks on belts is something which has been in the back of our minds (noone, TehJoes and my own) for a while but is a low priority.  It's something that will "one day" get implemented though.  :P

As to everything else, those would be good as separate add-on mods.  A2B is about conveying goods, not production but those are some good ideas.  :)

Well, it's good to know that at least some of my ideas will be implemented. Is there any specific individuals who might be able to make specified production machine a reality? It's kind-of hard to tell if the "addons" are only made by you and your team, or if anyone is able to make an addon for your mod. Should I just ask anyone willing to do it on the mod request forum, or should I ask someone specific (such as yourself) via private message(if that's even a thing here)?

Quote from: donoyaWell, it's good to know that at least some of my ideas will be implemented. Is there any specific individuals who might be able to make specified production machine a reality? It's kind-of hard to tell if the "addons" are only made by you and your team, or if anyone is able to make an addon for your mod. Should I just ask anyone willing to do it on the mod request forum, or should I ask someone specific (such as yourself) via private message(if that's even a thing here)?

Well, it's actually noone's (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=profile;u=7931) mod and his team.  I only joined the team after creating the first add-on mod A2B Selectors (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=12938).  So, anyone can create anything and that is the beauty of modding.  Of course we won't stop anyone who want to extend the mod or has ideas for it.  noone wants to maintain the scope of the mod and I although I have done the mod maintenance for the last couple alpha releases, I try to keep his original vision.

By all means though, if you want to create something to work with A2B be it an add-on like the selectors or another mod which can take advantage of A2B (such as Mechanical Defence 2's (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=7380.0) Ore Extractor), go for it!  Credit will of course be given (see list of contributors who have in some way added something be it a translation or code updates) and contributions will always be welcomed.

** Post-holiday long post warning **

Quote from: donoya on August 07, 2015, 05:47:23 PM
Is there any specific individuals who might be able to make specified production machine a reality? It's kind-of hard to tell if the "addons" are only made by you and your team, or if anyone is able to make an addon for your mod. Should I just ask anyone willing to do it on the mod request forum, or should I ask someone specific (such as yourself) via private message(if that's even a thing here)?

Anyone is welcome to join us at the A2B corporation. The more we are the merrier, and the higher the chances for the mod to last longer. For example, I just came back from 3 weeks offline, but things kept moving on this thread!

As 1000101 pointed out, we had different kind of external contributions in the past, ranging from one-off improvements to extended pushes to Github over several alphas. Usually, large contributors join the team (for one alpha or longer), and get to influence/contribute more directly the future of the mod if they want to.

Regarding the crafting plant idea - this is something that I have personally wished for for a while. Mostly because it would be the perfect complement to the belt system. As was said many times before, the A2B: conveyor belts "core" mod itself will only ever deal with transport issues. And I want to keep it that way (i.e. small and specific), because I think mods should be small and adaptable. Users should be able to use only features they want/like. I, for one, hate to play with large mods just because they have 1 element I have but otherwise useless features (to me), or graphics I dislike. Which is exactly why I very much dislike mod-packs, and always cherry pick mods I really enjoy. Not that I don't see the point of mod-packs, but they cater to the masses as a whole, while I try to cater to the masses as a collection of individuals. I am sure you will have seen the strong push from mod-authors making their respective mods customizable using the add-ons approach. A2B is no different to these.

The way I see things, I would create a parallel mod to "A2B: conveyor belts", called "A2B: Machines" (or something alike). Both would be very closely linked and hosted together on our Github account, but yet fully separated, and could be played independently (i.e. machines should be fed by simple hoppers). People maintaining either mod would also not need to be the same either. So, not an add-on to A2B:conveyor belts, but rather a "co-mod" ...

Regarding finding people to do it, well, good luck ;) In the past, I found that very few/no people are willing to code everything from scratch for someone else, unless they LOVE the idea. Most of us within A2B are already flat-out or busy otherwise ... and an old "help fishing expedition" (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=6638.msg65517#msg65517 (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=6638.msg65517#msg65517)) of mine encountered little success ... ;) Requests for help for specific issues are much (MUCH) more likely to get support from the community, so your best bet would be to try coding things yourself, see how far you can get, and ask for specific help as required.

For example: a simple machine would not be too different from a nutrient paste dispenser - only with different ingredient requirements. I was thinking, as a test case, to adapt the nutrient paste dispenser into a rock crusher machine. Takes rock chunks in, and returns some sand on the floor around it. Or as a start, rock chunks -> stone blocks. Or you could start with creating killer graphics, which might help motivate others to join your endeavour ... I thought a 3-tiles x 3-tiles structure (à-la geothermal generator) would be appropriate and nicely symmetric (I attach an old first-attempt design).

Well, that was a long post ... but I hope it shines some light on the structure and functioning of the A2B corporation !

[attachment deleted due to age]

Well then, I was actually pondering on if I should do modding for rimworld, and so long as it's not too big of a hassle (like if there's a big list of restrictions/ required skills (as I'm not the best with digital graphics and if there's something I really don't want to do, I tend to rebel when not given another alternative)), I would like to join your team of coders (I have had some experience with java and have at least understood some of the lua and C++ that I came across. I know how to convert binary, hexadecimal and decimal numbering systems (although I don't think that matters). Also, if I do, do I need to give any personal information or am I allowed to remain anonymous?

Well, as described in the OP, it's all on Github: https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B

You can fork what you'd like to improve, and then push your work, so we can have a look at it and merge it. But for the A2B: machines, you're probably better off writing the mod from scratch, since you don't need all the Belt-specific mechanisms, and it really should be stand-alone.

Just to be clear: we're all very independent within the A2B corporation. We code and develop things on our own, and only merge them when they are ready/near-ready. The "team" aspect comes in at these very late stages to iron-out bugs and things. In particular, we don't code extensive elements together. I can't speak for other members in the coporation, but we're all very busy and with plans on our own. This is why "joining the A2B corporation" has always "followed" a large contribution from an individual, rather than "preceded" it. In other words, if you code an add-on/co-mod for the A2B system, then you're in the corporation. But you should NOT expect that "joining the corporation" implies that the corporation will massively help you write a co-mod like A2B: machines. For that, you're still on your own - at least until you have some working code to share and that we can look at. Hopefully that makes sense ?

As per anonymity, none of us actually know each others other than via our RM forum and Github user names, so no issues there. We won't ask for your credit card number ;)

This mod is in a mod-pack I use but I literally have no idea how it works.

Lets say I set up a belt leading from my kitchen to my food storage stockpile (freezer). Will it only unload onto one square? What happens when that square becomes filled? Will it start spreading out to all the spaces in the food stockpile zone?

If not why would I use belts instead of hauling the items?

Any videos of this mod at work?

Quote from: The13thRoninThis mod is in a mod-pack I use but I literally have no idea how it works.

It's pretty simple, it's a conveyor belt, it moves items through the belt system from input (loader) to destination (unloader) and be routed (selectors) with a minimal of components built.

Quote from: The13thRoninLets say I set up a belt leading from my kitchen to my food storage stockpile (freezer). Will it only unload onto one square? What happens when that square becomes filled? Will it start spreading out to all the spaces in the food stockpile zone?

Yes, the unloader only onloads to the one square.  There is no "spreading" of items around it.  When the square is full the remaining items will simply wait on the belt until they can be unloaded.  I generally route items in such a way that only one item of a given type is unloaded at any given square.

Quote from: The13thRoninIf not why would I use belts instead of hauling the items?

(a) Because your pawns have more important things to do than haul items across the map, and it is far for efficient for your farmer to load all those potatoes onto a conveyor belt and get back to farming than to have all your colonists run around hauling potatoes, additionally;
(b) If setup properly, your pawns working at tables don't need to go anywhere (litterally) to continue working on bills.  The unloaders can drop the resources right beside the work table to do the bills for that table and with a loader in close proximity to take the finished items away.  This drastically improves your efficiency (by large factors, not just small percents).

If you use the selector to split your goods up to individual items (ie, potatoes only, berries only, etc), you can insure that if you have potatoes (or whatever), they will be in immediate proximity to your work table without having a pawn run to fetch it.

Quote from: The13thRoninAny videos of this mod at work?

Unfortunately not at this time that I am aware of.  Make a dummy colony and play around with the system until you are familiar with it.  It's very powerful and enables you to run colonies with pawns actually working instead of running around.

alpha 12 update pls

I´ve sent a Pull-Request on GitHub for a fixed version for Alpha 12. Hope I used the correct branch (development) for those changes.

That's cool, thanks :)

tbh, I've got A2B updated I'm just doing final tests before I push and release it.  :)  I want to make sure I don't miss subtle bugs like I did in CCL.

Quote from: 686d7066 on August 28, 2015, 01:33:18 PM
I´ve sent a Pull-Request on GitHub for a fixed version for Alpha 12. Hope I used the correct branch (development) for those changes.

Indeed that is the correct channel to submit changes, patches or updates.  We appreciate you doing this but our team was already hard at work.  :)

That being said...

Alpha 12 Update!

All parts of the mod (core and add-ons) are updated to Alpha 12c!  This update adds the features described in the v0.11.3 Testing Release (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=10644.msg153399#msg153399).

Is it intended that the undertaker in pulling mode uses like 6kW? also, a nice thing would be a system that could pick up items in a certain range(maybe a robotic arm on a frame system you have to set up, for example around your field, which automatically picks up the products.

EDIT:
oh, and I've had some issues with the conveyors being powered(maybe because i have conduits stuffed, and thus use non-vanilla conduits? anyway, when I build underground conveyors on power cables, they don't get power sometimes.
EDIT2: i think. i have absolutely no idea if that is true, power has been pretty wonky anyway because i when i installed a few mods i just used my vanilla save.

Hopefully this will answer some questions...

Underground belts and unpowered slides do not draw power directly.

Powered Lifts draw 50 watts + 10 watts (same as a surface belt) for every underground section it's pulling.  This means that you could have one powered lift drawing 100 watts and another drawing 1kW or more.  In my tests I've had lifts drawing over 2000 watts.

The reason?  So you can segment your power grid.  People were still using teleporter/receiver pairs to segment their grids and this resolves that, the underground belts used to draw power directly but you couldn't segment your grid.  This way you can segment the grid but the powered lifts need lots of juice to run.  It doesn't use any more power than it would if the underground belts drew power directly though and about the same amount of power for distance as a teleporter/receiver depending on your configuration.

As to robotic arms, etc.  No.  This is not Factorio (https://www.factorio.com/).  A2B is about conveyor belts, not robots.  Plus, there are plenty of droid mods you can use as dumb haulers to the loaders.

well, something is broken then, that particular undertaker had 6 belts attached.

Could you post a screenshot with the offending component selected?  It's hard to do anything with nothing to go on.

Quote from: 1000101 on September 04, 2015, 06:21:21 AM
Could you post a screenshot with the offending component selected?  It's hard to do anything with nothing to go on.

sadly, no, as this morning my game just suddenly broke when i had A2B(or any mod at all, not quite sure), and I had deconstructed it before that, anyway.

I swore I posted this, don't know what happened... I had an error, when I switched the belts to powered and then tried to switch the mode back to unpowered, it just deleted the thing. Also the potato's won't even go through the undertaker unless I turn on/off the conveyor holding it, then it goes into it, and disappears, this is after I had both sides set up, not one disappeared. (http://i.imgur.com/bcD7syW.png)

I had the undertaker disappearing glitch, too.

Zombie2:  I haven't seen that happen when testing A2B and thanks for the screen shot.

To all:  Remember, We can't fix bugs which don't appear to us.  The more details the better.   Screen shots are good for context but a log file is better.  Both are the best.  The other thing needed is a means to replicate the error, what did you do to get it to throw an error?  What where the conditions when the error occured?  What version of the game are you using?  What version of the mod are you using?  What other mods are you using (and their versions)?  How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

I do some pretty serious stress testing before release, running the game for hours with almost every configuration imaginable, but one man testing is going to yield limited results.  I catch all major bugs, but subtle bugs need proper feedback to resolve.

Im not sure what I am missing, but i have all 3 downloads of the mod ( the core and the 2 addons ) for alpha 12  and have them ordered right....and have alpha 12 version ;) ..but not finding the research to start them??

Quote from: NateBen84 on September 04, 2015, 08:32:10 PM
Im not sure what I am missing, but i have all 3 downloads of the mod ( the core and the 2 addons ) for alpha 12  and have them ordered right....and have alpha 12 version ;) ..but not finding the research to start them??

very dumb question, but are you sure you have them enabled? and that they didn't somehow disable themselves just before you loaded the save?

@1000101
I think the issues with the game just ceasing to work when ANY mods are installed are related to the game getting corrupted somehow.

Quote from: blub01 on September 05, 2015, 05:16:47 AM

Quote from: NateBen84 on September 04, 2015, 08:32:10 PM
Im not sure what I am missing, but i have all 3 downloads of the mod ( the core and the 2 addons ) for alpha 12  and have them ordered right....and have alpha 12 version ;) ..but not finding the research to start them??

very dumb question, but are you sure you have them enabled? and that they didn't somehow disable themselves just before you loaded the save?

@1000101
I think the issues with the game just ceasing to work when ANY mods are installed are related to the game getting corrupted somehow.

I did :D...........i have even just loaded only the A2B mods alone.......the A2B tabs are in the game but i cant research it.....not sure if its a stand alone research or if i have to do a vanilla research first??

Apparently I changed the research to require machining first.  This was unintentional, I must have edited the wrong copy of the file.

I will patch this up soon (unless people like the change).

Sorry about that.

Well....i dont mind it ;) just wasnt sure if i was doing it wrong... and didnt see a change :)............but i dont see anything wrong with it..........and it makes sense so.....your the boss......either way works :D

No, I was Doing It Wrong. (tm)  :D

v0.12.0b - Research Fix

This is just a fix for bad edits.

Affects core mod and teleporter add-on.

SO COOL

Alpha 12d Update & Unloader Fix

This builds against RimWorld Alpha 12d.

Issue #47 (https://github.com/A2Bcorp/RW_A2B/issues/47) is now resolved.

Wow! Looks awesome. Really open up the game. I can lay out my colony in a larger variety of ways and even have outposts for hunting or mining using the teleporter if I want to get freaky on a large map :)

so im only useing the convery belts but my guys (i have a all guy group i didt chose) and there taking stuff from stock that is alowed to be put on like meds witch i dont rely like but there taking stuff out the stock and puting it on the conver and of curse my med disaper but i dont rely care case MODS MODS MODS anyways i would like an op to make it so that they do dont take things from stock.

They will only take it from a stockpile of a lower priority.  Your pawns will only load things onto a loader that allows the item, if meds are the issue, they are taking it from a stockpile which is less important than the loader.

Seems pretty straight forward?

yea but my raids come from  a long way away so thats why i have set like that so lets say silver or weps and corpes it makes it easiyer but whateves and my crops are very far away from my stock that was the main resin for it  being like that and if the stock has a higher pro then they will just bypass the conver or i maybe rong cant check its gone.

Yes, there are some logistical issues you need to factor into this game. ;)

ok im going to shut up so that this ist neverending (:

is there any reason to use this? like, i know they are pretty cool, but in the base game, there isnt really anything that these things could help with.  like, sure it could be used for corpse disposal, but, unless your kill room is very far away from a corpse stockpile, it doesent seem to be worth the investment of building and powering a conveyor line used to carry corpses. or maybe it might be, idk. there should be a mod that adds in generators which require resources to mine.

If you had a giant farm say, you could easily have the conveyor belt going from there to your stockpile for the stuff you collected, which would save time on your haulers, as you'd have the resources go directly to that area. I find it's a good idea to not have the last spot as a stockpile, so your hauler will move the dropped item into the stockpile beside them, then the rest of it will drop. But the point is a conveyor line of potatoes in your stockpile is better then a hauler who has to go back and fourth to collect them.

Quote from: 123nick on September 12, 2015, 09:00:57 PM
is there any reason to use this? like, i know they are pretty cool, but in the base game, there isnt really anything that these things could help with.  like, sure it could be used for corpse disposal, but, unless your kill room is very far away from a corpse stockpile, it doesent seem to be worth the investment of building and powering a conveyor line used to carry corpses. or maybe it might be, idk. there should be a mod that adds in generators which require resources to mine.

It's useful for pretty much every repeated hauling job that goes over a far distance.

A2B as the only mod (set) you have is pretty OP and of limited use.  The only thing you can produce in quantity is food.  It will help your farms, no doubt, but that is about the only place you are likely to use it.  When playing with other mods which add renewable resource production (various mining/drilling mods), A2B becomes invaluable.

A properly set up conveyor system (slow as the belts are) will easily out-haul your entire colony forced to work strictly as haulers.  The belts don't rest, they don't have mental breaks, they don't stop to eat or play chess.  As long as they are operating in their temperature range (min -10C, -30C with research), have some regular maintenance (chance to break down is based on building health) and are powered, they will run day and night, sorting and delivering, delivering and sorting.

Combine A2B with your favourite 'droid to really see the power and effectiveness of A2B.

Remember, an empty belt is a useless belt.  If the belt has something on it, it has purpose.

I have found, when you are mining, you get a lot of rock chunks. They are pretty useless b/c they require stone cutting, but since you get so much of them, then you get so many stone blocks. And, as you can only haul one of them, if you can get a connection port with some underground conveyors, you can easily bring the stone chunks to the disposal/stone cutting bench.

Digging the concept. I'm building my conveyor system now,to get my metals from my extractors to the stockpiles. However,I have noticed a VERY big issue. Undertakers,set to lift mode,draw well over eight thousand units of energy per tick to run,each. Please tell me this isn't intentional.

EDIT: Here,have a screenshot.

(http://i.imgur.com/PlLKyEM.jpg)

The important bit is highlighted in red. The one to the left of that one,which is already turned off,draws over eight thousand watts. THAT one draws twelve thousand. Any idea why? If it's intentional... Why? It's impossible to get enough power to fuel such a system,if that's the case.

Hello!
First time poster here, Since Droids are out of action I have been exploring your mod for my hauling needs.
And those needs are great, I tend to deal with raids of 800 to 1500+ pawns and once my guns stop reaping I need to haul all those bodies and loot for processing and storage for sale.

I have set up a small teleport network for body transport, it is basic and likely overkill, I know I can refine it.
(http://i.imgur.com/N1SPBTs.jpg)

My issue is each of those loaders will only take a single task at a time, aka one body so if I have 30 hauling drones (I do) the first 6 will take bodies to the loaders but the other 24 will carry the corpse's all the way back to the morgue.
Am I doing something wrong with the loader setup or is this a known issue? It would be nice if the loader would take stacks of say 100+ and then just keep pushing the stacks out into the belts until empty.

Quote from: Mrshilka on September 13, 2015, 09:18:11 PM
Hello!
First time poster here, Since Droids are out of action I have been exploring your mod for my hauling needs.
And those needs are great, I tend to deal with raids of 800 to 1500+ pawns and once my guns stop reaping I need to haul all those bodies and loot for processing and storage for sale.

I have set up a small teleport network for body transport, it is basic and likely overkill, I know I can refine it.
(http://i.imgur.com/N1SPBTs.jpg)

My issue is each of those loaders will only take a single task at a time, aka one body so if I have 30 hauling drones (I do) the first 6 will take bodies to the loaders but the other 24 will carry the corpse's all the way back to the morgue.
Am I doing something wrong with the loader setup or is this a known issue? It would be nice if the loader would take stacks of say 100+ and then just keep pushing the stacks out into the belts until empty.

just add more loaders. that should work, right?

Quote from: Riddle78
Digging the concept. I'm building my conveyor system now,to get my metals from my extractors to the stockpiles. However,I have noticed a VERY big issue. Undertakers,set to lift mode,draw well over eight thousand units of energy per tick to run,each. Please tell me this isn't intentional.

EDIT: Here,have a screenshot.

- snip -

The important bit is highlighted in red. The one to the left of that one,which is already turned off,draws over eight thousand watts. THAT one draws twelve thousand. Any idea why? If it's intentional... Why? It's impossible to get enough power to fuel such a system,if that's the case.

That I have not seen in my tests before.  I would suspect that you have a complete connection of underground belts under your "sorting room" to the left.  Make sure that there are no underground belt sections under the three undertakers and selector in that room.  If you have a complete straight line connecting the underground belt sections, they could indeed draw more than you'd expect.  If they are not connected and that lift is only powering those 12 sections, then there must be a bug.  Double check your configuration, I suspect that there are unintentional underground belt sections in certain places causing them to all link into one giant network.

Quote from: blub01 on September 14, 2015, 01:38:11 AM

just add more loaders. that should work, right?
[/quote]

30 loaders is not an answer I was looking for, for a so called efficent means of moving materials:P

It is efficient?  All that's happened is you've overloaded your input buffer.  I don't see there is a problem other than what your expectations where.

The input buffer as you put it is 1 per loader and that is inefficient. To be able to move the quantities of corpses I create I would need a warehouse of loaders larger than my morgue is thanks to the wonders of Quantum Stockpiles. Not exactly the picture of efficiency.

I simply wanted to know was there a way I could make the loader accept stacks of bodies and have them continue to push them out until the stack was emptied, I have tried the use of the small quantum stockpiles but sadly a loader will not draw off a stockpile on it's loading side. Is there a mod that I could use that lets me place a mass storage system that the loader will draw off and let me throw dozes if not hundreds of items into it?

Or better yet can I modify the loader some way so it has a buffer of say 100+?

This is just for bodies, I had hoped to make another system for the weapons and other things the raiders dropped as well but would leave me in the same issues except instead of 800 to 1200 items it is 1600 to 2400 ones.

My Hydroponics setup right now as far as I see it I would need 15+ loaders to handle harvest time.

My underground belts are only between the Undertakers,not under them. Furthermore,as the Undertakers and underground belts seem to lack built-in power lines like the rest of the pieces,I manually ran power lines through each and every one of them.

So yeah, I really wanna use this mod. Looks like good fun and all but I feel like I'm gonna have a seizure from those arrows tick...tick...tick...tick...... Not poking fun or joking at all. Anyone tell me how to "stop" the arrows from animating or moving at all would be fine too. Thanks guys

Get motion sickness easier the older I get I swear.... 

Quote from: Riddle78 on September 14, 2015, 01:13:30 PM
My underground belts are only between the Undertakers,not under them. Furthermore,as the Undertakers and underground belts seem to lack built-in power lines like the rest of the pieces,I manually ran power lines through each and every one of them.

You don't have to do that, to reduce wiring(and lag maybe?) only the powered undertakers consume power, based on the number of underground belts attached to them.

Quote from: Mrshilka on September 13, 2015, 09:18:11 PM
Hello!
First time poster here, Since Droids are out of action I have been exploring your mod for my hauling needs.
And those needs are great, I tend to deal with raids of 800 to 1500+ pawns and once my guns stop reaping I need to haul all those bodies and loot for processing and storage for sale.

I have set up a small teleport network for body transport, it is basic and likely overkill, I know I can refine it.
(http://i.imgur.com/N1SPBTs.jpg)

My issue is each of those loaders will only take a single task at a time, aka one body so if I have 30 hauling drones (I do) the first 6 will take bodies to the loaders but the other 24 will carry the corpse's all the way back to the morgue.
Am I doing something wrong with the loader setup or is this a known issue? It would be nice if the loader would take stacks of say 100+ and then just keep pushing the stacks out into the belts until empty.

if you want some bots https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=3612.0

Quote from: pigman999999999 on September 17, 2015, 08:33:52 AM
I have set up a small teleport network for body transport, it is basic and likely overkill, I know I can refine it.

My issue is each of those loaders will only take a single task at a time, aka one body so if I have 30 hauling drones (I do) the first 6 will take bodies to the loaders but the other 24 will carry the corpse's all the way back to the morgue.
Am I doing something wrong with the loader setup or is this a known issue? It would be nice if the loader would take stacks of say 100+ and then just keep pushing the stacks out into the belts until empty.

This is inbuilt behavior of vanilla, mipen said that pawns reserve stuff they want to use to stop issues with 2 pawns trying to use the same item etc, so I believe this is what's happening in this instance. Perhaps though something along the lines of hoppers could be integrated in to the loader system? So it would be possible to stack items in them, and they get moved along when possible? I don't know if this is possible, or even easily implementable.. Just a thought, one of those random thoughts us non-coders have without realising the potential complexity of what we just said :)

I was building some belts to move my crops from the farms to the freezer in my last colony, an issue I had was the similar to yours, but also the range on the loader, if a pawn was close to the loader they'd use it rather than haul the goods manually back to the freezer, but the catchment area for the loader seems quite small, so unless the pawns is close to the loader, they'll ignore it. Might it be possible to add a system similar to cook stoves or stone cutting tables for example, where you can change the size of the area the pawn will look for ingredients?

Alas no way around it I found in the end. I have a large warehouse near my killzone now with 60 loaders in it that accept anything and then reroute all the items to different teleporters.

As for Robots yes I am using those lovely little hauling drones as I stated in my original post, I buy as many as I can find and like to have 30 to 40 of them to hands the raid influx.

This is simple the core hauling mechanic, A2B does nothing special.  The loaders are simply storage buildings just like the equipment rack.  The only difference is, the belt system moves the items from the loader through the belts.

Once a spot is take, be is a storage area, and equipment rack, etc, a pawn will find somewhere else for it to go.  The pawns have no concept of conveyor belts.  They don't know the loader will be free five seconds after they walk away.  They simply take it items to the highest priority storage that is closest to them, no more, no less.

Any changes in "radius" or things of that nature need to be directed to Tynan, he wrote the haul mechanic which drives it all.

It dawned on me (I'm slow!) That the hopper idea I mentioned above wouldn't work anyway, as the pawns would still reserve it to put stuff in it.. So the next pawn would skip the hopper to find somewhere else to take their goodies anyway.

Is there a reason why my pawns are unloading the unloader?

You probably have some other storage location with a higher priority, or the item is needed and it hasn't been "locked down" by the belt system yet.

Ok, i dont know if im doing something wrong here or what, but i cant use the belts at all as they lag like crazy. Checking the log it appears it's a texture issue. Somehow 2 of the textures are'nt found. 1: the blueprint texture. 2: 1 of the animation textures. Am i missing something obvious here? i have the 3 latest files downloaded as in Core, selectors and teleport.... they are loaded in that order.

Will look into it, thanks for the report.

Quote from: 1000101 on September 14, 2015, 07:46:00 AM

Quote from: Riddle78
Digging the concept. I'm building my conveyor system now,to get my metals from my extractors to the stockpiles. However,I have noticed a VERY big issue. Undertakers,set to lift mode,draw well over eight thousand units of energy per tick to run,each. Please tell me this isn't intentional.

EDIT: Here,have a screenshot.

- snip -

The important bit is highlighted in red. The one to the left of that one,which is already turned off,draws over eight thousand watts. THAT one draws twelve thousand. Any idea why? If it's intentional... Why? It's impossible to get enough power to fuel such a system,if that's the case.

That I have not seen in my tests before.  I would suspect that you have a complete connection of underground belts under your "sorting room" to the left.  Make sure that there are no underground belt sections under the three undertakers and selector in that room.  If you have a complete straight line connecting the underground belt sections, they could indeed draw more than you'd expect.  If they are not connected and that lift is only powering those 12 sections, then there must be a bug.  Double check your configuration, I suspect that there are unintentional underground belt sections in certain places causing them to all link into one giant network.

This has gotta be a bug. The power usage for the powered lifts seems to consistently be 50 + ( num_powered_componets * 1000W ) instead of 10W per or whatever it's supposed to be.

Unfortunately power per component doesn't seem to be in the XML, so the only way I've found to work around this is every time I build an underground section, save, exit, edit the base power usage of the lifts to 50 + (( total_underground * -990)/total_lifts) to compensate, and restart...

For the powered lifts, the power per comp is taken from xml for the standard belt component (10W).

PowerComponent.PowerOutput = -( PowerComponent.props.basePowerConsumption + poweredCount * A2BData.powerPerUndercover );
Where
dll source:
            var baseBelt = DefDatabase<ThingDef>.GetNamed( "A2BBelt" );
            if( baseBelt != null ){
                var beltComps = baseBelt.CompDefFor<CompPowerTrader>();
                if( beltComps != null )
                    A2BData.powerPerUndercover = beltComps.basePowerConsumption;
            }

xml:
<basePowerConsumption>10</basePowerConsumption>
If you are getting the 1000W/unit, that means that the game can't find "A2BBelt."
public static float                 powerPerUndercover = 1000f;

While others have reported this issue I can not reproduce it and the belt system always draws the correct amount for me.

Try reducing your mods so only A2B is loaded and test on a new colony to see if the problem persists, if not then some other mod is breaking things (changing defNames).  If it does, please use the github issue tracker and provide as much detail as possible, especially on how to reproduce the error.  Unreproducible errors can't be fixed and are simply considered junk bugs (ie, not real bugs).

Quote from: 1000101 on October 29, 2015, 02:19:26 AM
If you are getting the 1000W/unit, that means that the game can't find "A2BBelt."

Yeah, there may be a larger issue... I just powered up a section of normal belt, and it immediately spammed my error console to death, with the normal belt graphics flickering like crazy.

Only have (in order):
CCL
CCL-VT
FixBone
RedistHeat
A2B Conveyors
A2B Selectors

A2B was added after this colony was started, so I'll try starting a fresh world/colony.

I plan on updating this mod "soon" to allow the belts to be minified.  I'll also change the default 1000w (which was more of a debugging thing) to 10w if it can't find the base belt component.

Not sure why this would happen, I took a look at UOM to see if that was changing the defName but it's not.  I can't imagine any other mod is changing things with A2B of that nature which means that the code itself is just failing for some people.  There is also the graphic issue which is probably what's causing the lag for people.

Factorio, eat your heart out.

I'm thinking about building an inline storage part (similar to MD2's storage bins, but directly on the belt) that automatically dispenses a stack of the stored item onto the belt when both the belt and a designated stockpile are empty of that item. What's the best way for me to try to query the items that are currently riding within the entire belt system, or at least within a given segment of belts?

The sources are all available on github, so you can download and make changes as you like.

The base belt ThingComp (which all other belt components inherit from) defines a ThingContainer.  This is what a belt component currently has on it.  If the output vector (cell) has belt section in it with the proper input vector, the belt component checks if that belt's ThingContainer is empty.

The more complicated parts (underground components) can be hard to understand, but the basic components (straight belt, curved belt) are fairly easy to follow and most of the logic is handled internally by the main ThingComp.

Okay, what I want to do is find the list of all items that are on any belt component that's potentially downstream from me. Is the best way to just brute force walk down the entire belt, one segment at a time, and add up all the stuff I find?

Unfortunately there is no other way than that.  That is exactly what the underground belt sections do to find a "powered lift."  They are more complicated though since the underground belt sections are inherently directionless so, initially, they have to check every cardinal direction and walk through each belt they find (however, they try to pass straight through before cornering).

But yes, you will need to walk the tree to find what you need.  There are extension methods to get belt sections on a given layer (underground/surface) though which will make your life easier.  Unless you are planning some sort of "underground parking" for items, you will want to use the surface layer extensions.

My original idea was some kind of inline item-packing device, but I'm currently working on a 'Picker' that grabs from adjacent storage (like stockpiles or MD2's bins). This can be combined with Unloaders and stockpiles/bins to make inline storage. But I don't want to just be continually cycling the stuff though and wear out my belts, so I'm trying to make it dispense only when needed. I think as a first approximation though, I'm just going to make a sensor to put in the destination cell and just trigger Pickers on a very slow cycle. It'll over-dispense sometimes, but it's a lot less work!

Any news when this will be updated? :( Im waiting on this mod before I return to try out all the changes (ive not played in a very long time!)

I have an updated version for A12 which adds some new features, but I am busy getting CCL updated to A13 right now.

New features to expect:

• No-power bug for underground belts after loading a save game has been fixed
• Belt components will draw less power while not actively moving items
• Belts will "roll stacks forward" if the next belt contains a partial stack of the same thing (ie, a->b, both contain steel but "b" only has 10 steel, up to 65 steel from "a" will continue moving into "b" to make a complete stack)
• Selectors have an option to output to non-belts and can program the selection from a non-belt storage buildings storage settings
• Loader "overloading" where the loader will immediately "take" the item allowing pawns to continually load the belt

I hope to have CCL ready soon for A13, it's currently in testing by other modders (those that have joined the RimWorld modding slackchat have access to it).  Once the bugs have been quashed in testing, CCL will be released and I will be focusing on A2B.

Quote from: 1000101 on April 12, 2016, 03:12:52 PM
I have an updated version for A12 which adds some new features, but I am busy getting CCL updated to A13 right now.

New features to expect:

• No-power bug for underground belts after loading a save game has been fixed
• Belt components will draw less power while not actively moving items
• Belts will "roll stacks forward" if the next belt contains a partial stack of the same thing (ie, a->b, both contain steel but "b" only has 10 steel, up to 65 steel from "a" will continue moving into "b" to make a complete stack)
• Selectors have an option to output to non-belts and can program the selection from a non-belt storage buildings storage settings
• Loader "overloading" where the loader will immediately "take" the item allowing pawns to continually load the belt

I hope to have CCL ready soon for A13, it's currently in testing by other modders (those that have joined the RimWorld modding slackchat have access to it).  Once the bugs have been quashed in testing, CCL will be released and I will be focusing on A2B.

This will be when :) if i may ask i love this mod and build a lot of Systems with it mostly Using Industrilation with it the deep mine and the More Mechanoides so they mine it put it on the Belt and the Pawns Store it in my Storage room :) i need it for A13  :)
Thanks for making this awsome mod and srry English isn't my Main language so :D

Alpha 13 Update

This builds against RimWorld Alpha 13 (build 1135)

[adds]

• Loader "overloading"
• Stacks on can "roll forward"
• Selectors can output directly to the floor/non-belts
• Selectors can be programmed by stockpiles or any storage building they output to (on the "1" output)
• "Low power mode" for belts which are not actively moving items
• Surface belts are minifiable, no need to rebuild what you can just move!

[fixes]

• Underground belts "no power on game load"
• Undertakers disappearing when switching operational mode

Yes! Thank you!

This looks awesome! I can't wait to try this!

I can't seem to connect the undertaker or covered belts to power. I've run power along side, over the top and connected it to other components, but no dice. The 'Change Mode' button is a red X and doesn't seem to do anything. I'm not going to consider this a bug until I'm sure that it's not just me misunderstanding.

Works fine in a new game on a new world. (Can't believe I didn't try it before posting...)

A2B should be fine to use on an existing save but with mods you can never be 100% sure.  Also, there were some major internal changes between RimWorld A12 and A13 which the modding community still haven't fully discovered the ramifications of.

Generally speaking, when adding mods, it's always best to,
(a) restart the game after opening the mod menu (even without any changes due to the game auto-reloading data (which can break things));
(b) create a new world, and;
(c) create a new game.

I cant workout why, but this isn't working for me at all - ive unloaded every mod, restarted the game, loaded just the main mod (tried including the others also), restarted the game and then created a new world and colony - and it still isn't working for me. any ideas? :(

Ah im an idiot, I didn't take the mod folder, out of the extracted folder

There's been a lot of discussion on the RimWorld modding slackshat about components and cost.  It's a tough thing to balance as to be consistent with the rest of the game, belts should use components.  The issue as you pointed out is the cost of components and how long it takes to be able to make them.

I would recommend using the Cheaper Components (https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?topic=19068.0) mod to reduce the material (steel) cost of components.  It's still a bit of a "late game" option, but it will help.

Don't forget to trade with any trader that comes as they may have components and disassemble fallen ship parts for components too.

I agree, the standard belts shouldn't have components. It would be too expensive like that. Not everything in the vanilla game that could have components has them. And the fact that you suggest using Cheaper Components proves the point. In other words you can't use your mod without using another mod to compensate for the high cost of components.

Alright, I'll remove the component requirements for "basic" belt sections.  Belt sections which perform more work than simple moving items will still have a component requirement, however.

Basic Components

• Belt (10 steel)
• Curved Belt (10 steel)
• Loader (10 steel)
• Unloader (10 steel)
• Merger (10 steel)
• Splitter (15 steel)
• Underground Belt (20 steel)

Advanced Components

• Selector (10 steel, 1 component)
• Undertaker (20 steel, 2 components)
• Teleporter (50 steel, 25 plasteel, 3 components)
• Reciever (50 steel, 25 plasteel, 3 components)

If anyone has suggestions other than those outlined above, please give give feedback, we are always looking to keep out customers happy.

There are a number of issues in that log file.

Can you reproduce the error with just A2B as the only mod enabled (aside from Core, of course)?

I can't seem to reproduce that error, but at the same time, I have removed mods from my own load which have errors that I can't correct directly (such as AutoEquip).

Just to clarify, if the undertaker hasn't yet detected or been forced into it's operational mode, then it disappears on load?

I have a different bug which is fixed and I'm surprised nobody noticed (stacks dropped will be completely used, even if only part of the stack is dropped).

I'd like to confirm and fix this bug, however, before doing a bug-fix release.

Unfortunately the component requirement is handled by the core "CompBreakdownable" even if the thing doesn't have any components in it's cost.

I'll see what I can do about this, however.

Not everything in the vanilla game breaks down. Maybe you should only set the parts that use components to be able to break down. I mean if you have even a medium sized conveyor belt system you probably have way more breakable parts than the whole rest of your map. It might balance things a bit to exclude normal belts, just so you're not getting breakdowns all the time.

Ok, save bug fixed, now I just need to rebalance the breakdowns.

I think I will restrict them to just the belt sections which use components.

The simple solution is...don't built surface belts outside.  Underground belts are already waterproof.  Build a small room for the loaders out by your fields and then user underground belts or the optional teleport/receiver pair to link back to your main network.

v0.13.2 - Less Breakdowns & Small Bug-fixes

This builds against RimWorld Alpha 13 (build 1135)

[changes]

• Only belt sections which require "components" can breakdown

[fixes]

• Underground belts "stalling" (if you see the "... to ...", the belt was stalled)
• Items completely rotting are now properly removed from the belt
• Partial stack drops would remove the whole stack

Just a warning, make sure any belts which are broken down are repaired before updating.  We're not sure what will happen with the CompBreakdownable being removed while a belt section is currently broken down.  Maybe nothing, maybe your colony exploding.

I found an interesting compatibility bug, if the glitter tech mod is placed below the A2B: conveyor belts mod, it causes both placed and map generated walls to have a power toggle button on them and make them able to have breakdowns

Because of how close those 2 mods were in close my mod order i was able to swap them without any issues in my current save, i don't know what will happen if they are far apart

I saved while one of my colonists was replacing a component in a wood wall, when i loaded it he was still trying to repair it even though there was no breakdown anymore, drafting and undrafting him fixed that

A2B doesn't change any core assets, especially walls or the like.  It obviously makes reference to core assets (steel, plasteel, components) but changes no core defs or classes.

Does this only happen with Glittertech?  Does it happen with any other mod?  Can it be reproduced with one mod alone?  Was this on an existing save?  Does it happen on a new world+colony?

Quote from: 1000101 on May 11, 2016, 02:30:08 PM
A2B doesn't change any core assets, especially walls or the like.  It obviously makes reference to core assets (steel, plasteel, components) but changes no core defs or classes.

Does this only happen with Glittertech?  Does it happen with any other mod?  Can it be reproduced with one mod alone?  Was this on an existing save?  Does it happen on a new world+colony?

this was happening on new colony which has about 100 mods active, i had the same versions of glitter tech and a2b active before but with this new colony there was a load of new mods so i rebuilt my mod order.

i narrowed it down to a2b and glitter tech, i created a new colony with each mod change

the bug still occurred with this mod order, when i placed glitter tech above a2b it was fixed and removing either one also got rid of the bug

    <li>Core</li>
    <li>Community Core Library</li>
    <li>RW_A2B</li>
    <li>RW_A2B_Selector</li>
    <li>RW_A2B_Teleport</li>
    <li>GlitterTech</li>

edit:map generated walls won't display the power button till you claim them but they can still suffer from breakdowns
   

Ok, I'll look through A2B to see if there is some derpiness happening but I don't think so.

Its time to make the factory. And after we make the factory, we're going to have to make it even better

#MakeTheFactoryGreatAgain2k16

Lol, otherwise good mod. Really helps with efficiency and such.

New user here! Is there a way to make the conveyor belts stop exploding when outside in the rain, or am I supposed to use Underground belts for outside jobs?

Quote from: LittleMikey on May 13, 2016, 01:50:35 AM
New user here! Is there a way to make the conveyor belts stop exploding when outside in the rain, or am I supposed to use Underground belts for outside jobs?

You can change some settings in the mod to stop that, there are 4 files that need to be changed (2 if only base mod)

In each mod folder go into defs/thingdefs   The files that need to be changed are:
Building_A2B.xml
Building_A2B2.xml
Opposite.xml
Building_A2B_Teleporter.xml

In every file find the line below and change them to false, most files have more than one of this line
<startElectricalFires>true</startElectricalFires>

Quote from: dj84722 on May 13, 2016, 03:05:59 AM

Quote from: LittleMikey on May 13, 2016, 01:50:35 AM
New user here! Is there a way to make the conveyor belts stop exploding when outside in the rain, or am I supposed to use Underground belts for outside jobs?

You can change some settings in the mod to stop that, there are 4 files that need to be changed (2 if only base mod)

In each mod folder go into defs/thingdefs   The files that need to be changed are:
Building_A2B.xml
Building_A2B2.xml
Opposite.xml
Building_A2B_Teleporter.xml

In every file find the line below and change them to false, most files have more than one of this line
<startElectricalFires>true</startElectricalFires>

Thanks, I'll do that!

The belts are supposed to catch fire and/or explode in the rain.

That is why we provide two "weather safe" options - Underground belts and the Teleport/Reciever pair.

The underground belts are immune to weather and are safe to use outside (as well as not having a movement penalty with their covers on) and the Teleporter can be built in small utility rooms around the map to send back to your in-door warehousing and recievers.

That being said, it's all defined in xml and you can change it as you like but there are components already for this.  :)

Quote from: 1000101 on May 13, 2016, 01:23:39 PM
The belts are supposed to catch fire and/or explode in the rain.

That is why we provide two "weather safe" options - Underground belts and the Teleport/Reciever pair.

The underground belts are immune to weather and are safe to use outside (as well as not having a movement penalty with their covers on) and the Teleporter can be built in small utility rooms around the map to send back to your in-door warehousing and recievers.

That being said, it's all defined in xml and you can change it as you like but there are components already for this.  :)

Good to know, thanks!

I don't know how Selectors work? I tried it out and I can't figure it out.

1.What I am trying to do is make one A2B belt system where I can load both Medicine and Glitterworld Medicine onto one loader. And the items are sorted into two paths and dropped into a proper stockpile. So I need to automatically sort these two items into different paths. Is this possible?

Yes, this is what selectors are for.  Build a selector and set the filter for items to go to the "1" output.  If the item isn't in allowed by the filter, it will be sent to the "2" output.

Quote from: 1000101 on May 15, 2016, 08:53:19 AM
Yes, this is what selectors are for.  Build a selector and set the filter for items to go to the "1" output.  If the item isn't in allowed by the filter, it will be sent to the "2" output.

Thats I have not tested it yet but now that you say it that way I understand what I was doing wrong. Thanks!

Dont mind me, just making a bookmark.

still exist the stucking (stall) bug...

Can you provide details on how to reproduce it?  Your world and save where it's happening would be a huge help.

Quote from: 1000101 on July 09, 2016, 08:58:44 PM
Can you provide details on how to reproduce it?  Your world and save where it's happening would be a huge help.

i sent you a message about the problem.

pic.

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pic2

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pic3

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I see a merger selected but I don't see the underground belt with the issue selected.  Or is this a surface belt which is stalled?

Quote from: 1000101 on July 11, 2016, 01:02:18 AM
I see a merger selected but I don't see the underground belt with the issue selected.  Or is this a surface belt which is stalled?

as i talled you, it occurs also at merger too for me. underground belt problem also happens.
anyway stall problem occurs and it is also problem.

i dont know how to duplicate the problem so i dont have underground problem now

here it is, stucked underground bug. it happened.

[attachment deleted by admin - too old]

another underbelt bug here.

now it occurs per minute. i have to uninstall all belts and cant use this mod until the bug fix...sad.

in my play, i observed that it occurs again and again and again at almost same spot. and there is 3 types.

for underbelts,
1. ... to ...
2. south (west etc...) to ...
for merger,
3. item just stop.


[attachment deleted by admin - too old]

Items which can't move in underground belts may appear stalled but should auto-correct when they are able to move again.  I have never had an issue with surface belts stalling.

As I can't reproduce this, your save file would be very helpful (zip and attach to a post).

Also, what version of A2B are you running?  Are you using the optional add-ons and are they matched to the core mod?  (ie, all v0.13.2?)

Quote from: 1000101 on July 11, 2016, 03:36:20 PM
Items which can't move in underground belts may appear stalled but should auto-correct when they are able to move again.  I have never had an issue with surface belts stalling.

As I can't reproduce this, your save file would be very helpful (zip and attach to a post).

Also, what version of A2B are you running?  Are you using the optional add-ons and are they matched to the core mod?  (ie, all v0.13.2?)

i didnt check the time but auto correction does not happened to me...saddly...
im running core and selector. and 0.13.20 (checked it at A2B.dll information tab).

i check it and i waited around for 3 minute and auto correction does not happened.

my save files size 17mb so cant attach here.

Quote from: caesiusmy save files size 17mb so cant attach here.

Hence I said to zip them.  People who don't zip (or otherwise compress) files for internet transmission annoy me.  Internet bandwidth wastage is a major problem in the last 10 years.

Quote from: 1000101 on July 11, 2016, 08:55:55 PM

Quote from: caesiusmy save files size 17mb so cant attach here.

Hence I said to zip them.  People who don't zip (or otherwise compress) files for internet transmission annoy me.  Internet bandwidth wastage is a major problem in the last 10 years.

Did you read my massage? I sent you google drive lenk.

I got the files, but it won't be addressed until I start doing the A14 update of A2B.

Right now I have to focus on CCL's A14 update which isn't a small chore.

This looks fairly awesome. Can't wait to get my hands on it.
Any chance on a rough ETA for a Ver14 compatibility?

I'm really dreading updating this one.  A2B is a great mod but it's to the point with the various additions and refactors it should really get a complete re-write.

I'll be looking into updating this "soon" though, within the next week.

Quote from: 1000101 on July 25, 2016, 02:49:25 AM
I'm really dreading updating this one.  A2B is a great mod but it's to the point with the various additions and refactors it should really get a complete re-write.

I'll be looking into updating this "soon" though, within the next week.

cool :)

How do you stop the belts from short-circuiting in the rain? Any research that does it or will everything have to be under a roof?

Quote from: silverskin on July 25, 2016, 08:57:31 AMHow do you stop the belts from short-circuiting in the rain? Any research that does it or will everything have to be under a roof?

By not building them outside.  They are not weather proof.  Only underground belts are weather proof.  Alternately you can use the teleporter add-on (these still need to be build in-doors but you can build utility rooms around your map).

Quote from: 1000101 on July 25, 2016, 04:19:05 PM

Quote from: silverskin on July 25, 2016, 08:57:31 AMHow do you stop the belts from short-circuiting in the rain? Any research that does it or will everything have to be under a roof?

By not building them outside.  They are not weather proof.  Only underground belts are weather proof.  Alternately you can use the teleporter add-on (these still need to be build in-doors but you can build utility rooms around your map).

In ThingDefs/Building_A2B Serch For The DefName A2BBelt And Change In The Comps - CompProperties_Power The StartElectricalFires Value To False :)

You can do that, but they are supposed to start electrical fires.  This is why we have two weather safe options.  :P

I too would also like an update to A14. Thanks for all your hard work.

Regarding an A14 update

Sorry people, I just don't have time to update this mod to A14.  I will make sure it's on the front burner for A15, however.

The A2B Corp and it's members would like to thank everyone for their support in keeping this mod alive, the positive feedback, and all the suggestions on how to improve the mod.

Stay tuned for A15 and an updated version!

Understandable and looking forward to A15. Thanks for the update though it's really appreciated and thanks for the hard work.

very love this mod, looking forward to A15, my big factory will grow up with this mod

Wish this cool mod would come back.

Also with travelators/moving walkway that would increase your speed.