Tynan (or someone else qualified to answer this),
Has something like this: http://stonehearth.net/faq/ been considered?
Basically, you buy the game through humble on their website, and it nets you a steam key. You just can't buy it directly from steam. I'm assuming it's so people don't just grab it and then bitch about it not being done.
Getting a steam key is attractive. Steam also allows for easy updating and easier access to all the news to all your games.
It might sway more people to buy. It is what innitially kept me from getting it... It just started to look too cool to pass, and the development was really active.
Cheers,
Michael
I'd be interested but I don't think Valve would agree to it. They want to have the game sold through Steam itself. Not sure how the Stonehearth guys did this; maybe Humble has some Valve connection.
Quote from: Tynan on February 22, 2015, 08:41:49 PM
I'd be interested but I don't think Valve would agree to it. They want to have the game sold through Steam itself. Not sure how the Stonehearth guys did this; maybe Humble has some Valve connection.
Why has the game not been put on Steam yet anyway? It's far more complete and playable than the vast majority of other Early Access games with a modding community only equaled(to my knowledge) by Starbound.
I haven't rationalized my way into buying it yet solely because of the loss of the Steam key if I bought it right now and I know I'm not alone in that sentiment.
Its refreshing to see a game not on steam. All our eggs are in one basket atm
Quote from: evrett33 on February 24, 2015, 02:06:59 AM
Its refreshing to see a game not on steam. All our eggs are in one basket atm
In this specific case it doesn't matter as the Steam Key issue has enforced the need for a non-steam version to be developed and supported as well.
As Steam in general having the majority of PC Digital Download users, well if another company would make a comparable product with Steam's basic functionality that makes it so good, that being the ability to just select the game, click download, wait, and then play with no hassle and no extra BS like other game management clients(looking at you Origin) then I would look into them but apparently the ability to provide a hassle free service seems to be beyond anyone but Valve at this point in time.
Didn't I read somewhere that you didn't want to put it on steam as when you update it, most likely it would break their saves for the ones who don't wanted to stop playing that world at first?
but I also found out in the properties in steam, you can specify which version to be on (default is recommended which will auto update)
personally I like it like this right now.
I like being up to date with bugfixes...
But I hate having to completely reinstall the game every time there's a hotfix. I, like most people, have a capped internet; RimWorld isn't huge by any means, but it's not the only game I play, and I have Netflix instead of cable - so every little bit that I can save, I appreciate.
To put it in perspective, the first time I found out that I had a cap (which is 300GB), I had hit 482GB. I've made it more manageable by lowering Netflix from HD to standard, and I've begun limiting my digital library and updates. Now, I'm usually hitting 280-285GB monthly, micromanaging.
If it would be at all possible to replicate what Stonehearth is doing, Tynan, would you consider it? The interest in Steam is there, clearly, and the setup would keep RimWorld from being publicly listed on Steam (a quick search shows that Stonehearth doesn't appear on Steam), so you could still have an official release there and not be bogged down by the "We hate Early Access without even trying the game first!" crew.
And, of course, people could still continue updating via the download link and avoid Steam altogether, if that is their prerogative.
yeah, the network can be pretty slow for me, living in the country, get satellite for my internet, suppose to get ~3MB but i rarely ever seen it go above 450 Kbps :/
Quote from: evrett33 on February 24, 2015, 02:06:59 AM
Its refreshing to see a game not on steam. All our eggs are in one basket atm
I don't really get this. Its not like Steam is at risk of going down anytime soon or anything like that.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on February 25, 2015, 12:59:44 AM
Quote from: evrett33 on February 24, 2015, 02:06:59 AM
Its refreshing to see a game not on steam. All our eggs are in one basket atm
I don't really get this. Its not like Steam is at risk of going down anytime soon or anything like that.
In the world of Data... everything and anything can go down at any given time.
What I don't understand is what makes steam so appealing. With a game such as Rimworld, having it automatically update would be more of a problem than a gift, The usual counter-argument is that it's all in one place but that part is simple, one can just add it to their libraries.. Not to mention that everything steam comes with built-in DRM & hoops to jump through, everything needing to be connected to an account... KISS Obviously doesn't apply here.
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not fully against it, I'm just curious why everyone wants absolutely everything on steam, it just doesn't cater to most circumstances that people used to be against.
Also, for some reason, I can't connect to Steam from my location. So I love me some non-Steam games.
Quote from: Coenmcj on February 25, 2015, 02:00:34 AM
What I don't understand is what makes steam so appealing. With a game such as Rimworld, having it automatically update would be more of a problem than a gift
This is easily sidestepped in the same way Starbound is doing it.
They have the general download that is automatically updated and is only used for tested and stable releases, so full version releases, and then the Beta version that you have to manually opt into and would be to test unstable versions for feedback and bugfinding. They also have a third one for Nightly Builds but that wouldn't be something needed with Rimworld.
Rereading my post it sounded more whiny than I meant it to.
What I meant to ask was if there is a technical reason behind Rimworld not being on Steam, like not wanting to force unstable updates on everyone and not knowing about the beta opt in option on Steam, even though it could be sold and marketed as a complete game as is and few would bitch so long as patches and new content are still released or if it's a personal preference thing for Tynan like if he wants to skip being marked as Early Access and only release what he considers to be a complete version.
Quote from: Coenmcj on February 25, 2015, 02:00:34 AM
In the world of Data... everything and anything can go down at any given time.
Yeah, it's a hella lot more likely that the couple of servers that Ludeon are using would go down then the world wide network of redundent servers that Value use would.
Quote from: Coenmcj on February 25, 2015, 02:00:34 AM
What I don't understand is what makes steam so appealing. With a game such as Rimworld, having it automatically update would be more of a problem than a gift,
You can turn updates off, and if the developer wants they can host multiple versions that can be accessed in about 3 or 4 mouse clicks.
Quote from: Coenmcj on February 25, 2015, 02:00:34 AMThe usual counter-argument is that it's all in one place but that part is simple, one can just add it to their libraries..
This is a difference between adding a not steam game to my list, and the game being instantly accessible from any computer as long as it has an internet connection, not to mention the steam workshop holding all my mods (which would also auto install and update if I chose)
Quote from: Coenmcj on February 25, 2015, 02:00:34 AMNot to mention that everything steam comes with built-in DRM & hoops to jump through, everything needing to be connected to an account... KISS Obviously doesn't apply here.
Other then needed a steam account this all isn't true as well. Just because something is distributed through steam doesn't mean it has DRM. Just off the top of my head: Besiege, The Masterplan, Project Zomboid, Artemis, KSP (iirc) and Survivalists are all distributed thro steam, all of don't use steam as DRM, meaning steam doesn't even need to be running in order to play them.
Quote from: Coenmcj on February 25, 2015, 02:00:34 AMDon't get me wrong though, I'm not fully against it, I'm just curious why everyone wants absolutely everything on steam, it just doesn't cater to most circumstances that people used to be against.
Don't really get what you are saying here, but the reason I use steam is that it auto updates everything I want and nothing I don't, allows me to sync my games across multiple systems, incorporates streaming, chat, mod discovery acquisition and installation, shows me relevant news at a mouse click for any and all products I own without me having to check individual developer pages, let's me upload videos and pictures and share them with friends and well a whole heap more. I don't see any valid reason to NOT use steam, other them some people don't seem to want to use it, to which I say, buy it thro the developer page and download it from the email links like you currently do, and allow me to do it my way as well.
I wouldn't even say I "like" Steam, but...
1.) It's a hell of a lot better than, say, Origin or uPlay.
2.) It's convenient in a variety of ways - autoupdates (without having to download the entire game every damn time), Workshop for mods, easily see what friends are playing and directly connect...
3.) Your "In the world of Data" argument, like Mikhail pointed out, applies to Ludeon as well. Tynan's fantastic, but comparing Ludeon's long-term stability to Valve's isn't exactly winning any points in your argument.
As I said - it doesn't have to be the only venue. Keep updating it the way it currently is, as well. If you don't like/can't access/have had a bad "romantic" experience with/feel awkward around Steam, by all means, I understand. There's very few video game-related businesses that I don't actively despise.
I'm just asking to have an option implemented, and it's one that's in the planned future anyway - it's not something out in left field that everyone's going to avoid.
It seems that everyone always ignores the big question: is the release of a game on steam in its alpha stage really the best way to go?
You have only one hype after the initial release, where you attract the most customers. And if you don't reach even half of them, because it isn't a finished game, will you reach them later when it's finished, or have you sold the game by then to a much reduced price in a summer sale?
I think these are fundamental questions for any firm. What most people tend to ignore is that Ludeon is a firm which wants to reach as much customers as possible to a price as high as possible, so that future projects can be financed.
This isn't anything against any customer, this is just something every firm needs to think about.
How can I finance my next project as best as I can, or do I want to go bankrupt anytime soon?
Just my personal opinion..
Quote from: Haplo on February 25, 2015, 01:24:05 PM
It seems that everyone always ignores the big question: is the release of a game on steam in its alpha stage really the best way to go?
You have only one hype after the initial release, where you attract the most customers. And if you don't reach even half of them, because it isn't a finished game, will you reach them later when it's finished, or have you sold the game by then to a much reduced price in a summer sale?
I think these are fundamental questions for any firm. What most people tend to ignore is that Ludeon is a firm which wants to reach as much customers as possible to a price as high as possible, so that future projects can be financed.
This isn't anything against any customer, this is just something every firm needs to think about.
How can I finance my next project as best as I can, or do I want to go bankrupt anytime soon?
Just my personal opinion..
I feel like the OP covered that.
Go search Steam (if you have it) for Stonehearth. It's not on there.
Yet you can buy a Steam key for it at the link provided by the OP.
Apparently, there's an option - besides pre-order, Early Access, and release - where you can play a game that isn't available directly on Steam.
Essentially, Ludeon can still have a full release that gets all of regular press and recognition from Steam, but it allows for a playerbase on Steam even before that release happens, without forfeiting that hype that you speak of. :)
The questions, really, are:
1.) Whether or not that's an exclusive deal with Stonehearth
and, if not,
2.) Whether or not Tynan wants to pursue the requirements for that course (though, he states in the second post that he's interested).
I was disappointed I had to drop $30 on a non-steam indie game, but I still deemed it worth it and made the plunge.
I have read now that even if it eventually gets on steam, I will probably not even get a steam key and will require manually downloading every update, which is sooooooo 1990s.
The main appeal to steam is a automatic updating system, community/blog updates right in the game info panel, and obviously the ease of access.
In reply to someone claiming it's not good for alpha and about the gamesave incompatibilities. That can simply (well, not simply) be programmed in to be backwards compatible, disable automatic updates (only manually update through steam if you are prepared to make a new colony). There are tons of "early access" games on steam and they sell like hotcakes and people generally don't care about broken saves as it was for a less feature-ful version or broken version itself.
With RimWorld, Tynan releases fairly stable public RCs, so I think it's actually better than most early access games on Steam. Don't read that as "then why do you need Steam?" as that is not even the factor. Steam is an extra factor.
I know it's easier, especially with a smaller dev team, to simply not have backwards compatible game save loading or conversions (especially with the bugs that that itself could cause), but look at something like Minecraft where you could literally update and convert any old version you wanted since the beginning of time and never have an issue. Sure, you missed out on new world generation options (biomes, etc), but you got to keep the core things that "made" your world/colony/whatever. Just re-save the colonists and items into a new compatible save and start from there. That itself would be a pretty big unertaking, but it would be a huge step forward in making a much more enjoyable update scheme and prepare for automatic updates or distro systems like Steam.
Quote from: Haplo on February 25, 2015, 01:24:05 PM
It seems that everyone always ignores the big question: is the release of a game on steam in its alpha stage really the best way to go?
You have only one hype after the initial release, where you attract the most customers. And if you don't reach even half of them, because it isn't a finished game, will you reach them later when it's finished, or have you sold the game by then to a much reduced price in a summer sale?
I think these are fundamental questions for any firm. What most people tend to ignore is that Ludeon is a firm which wants to reach as much customers as possible to a price as high as possible, so that future projects can be financed.
This isn't anything against any customer, this is just something every firm needs to think about.
How can I finance my next project as best as I can, or do I want to go bankrupt anytime soon?
Just my personal opinion..
According to the homepage 65k units have been sold solely through their own system. If Tynan can get Rimworld onto the Featured section for a week on Steam, which is not uncommon for newly released games I see them there all the time, the number of purchased copies of the game would likely increase by at least 50% if not double entirely just because of the increased visibility of the game. Even with the commonly used 10% discount for being newly released on Steam, the money generated within a week or two would be more than worth the effort and time needed to get the game into the Steam market, not to mention those like me who are only waiting to purchase once we will get a Steam Key for doing so.
As for Steam Sales, I think the dev can set how often and how large the sales are so Tynan wouldn't be losing much money if he loses any at all due to the increased visibility causing far more people to buy than they would without it.
Exactly.
I only knew about this game watching a 1+ year old DF youtube video from a small let's player (VangaurdOfValor) and it wasn't even from the video, it was from a random comment I seen on the video saying RimWorld was basically DF with a better UI/graphics (which was the only ting stopping me from playing DF though I desperately wanted to get into that game but couldn't).
Also, has this point even been raised: The introduction of this game into Steam would draw trolls and other dipsh!ts that could NOT tolerate the harshness of the game. They could easily shout louder at how the game is just not fair. This will definitely be bad.
At the current rate of conversion, mostly intelligent people will be drawn to the game, people who can and will give quality advice to Tynan on critical things such as balance.
Quote from: StorymasterQ on February 25, 2015, 09:08:09 PM
Also, has this point even been raised: The introduction of this game into Steam would draw trolls and other dipsh!ts that could NOT tolerate the harshness of the game. They could easily shout louder at how the game is just not fair. This will definitely be bad.
At the current rate of conversion, mostly intelligent people will be drawn to the game, people who can and will give quality advice to Tynan on critical things such as balance.
This is the worst argument I see. Every group of gamers like to image that their game is somehow harder, requires more smarts and is generally better then everyone else.
'Dump' people can and do play DF. Smart people can play CoD.
People who bitch use the steam forums because no one puts effort in bitching - everyone else uses the dev forums. Look at PA. I'm sure that there is some crass comments on the steam forums, but the Dev forums are fine, if in fact a little quiet.
Quote from: StorymasterQ on February 25, 2015, 09:08:09 PM
Also, has this point even been raised: The introduction of this game into Steam would draw trolls and other dipsh!ts that could NOT tolerate the harshness of the game. They could easily shout louder at how the game is just not fair. This will definitely be bad.
At the current rate of conversion, mostly intelligent people will be drawn to the game, people who can and will give quality advice to Tynan on critical things such as balance.
And the same counter-point has been raised, multiple times,
in this thread:
Go to Steam. Look for StoneHearth. No forum, no page to purchase.
Yet the game is played and updated on Steam for those early purchasers who wanted it on Steam. You just purchase via their site (like RimWorld) or Humble and get a Steam key in that method.
If things are able to be done in the same approach that StoneHearth took, it solves that issue and also allows for full release recognition to happen. :)
I found this game through Youtube playthoughs by quill18 and Sips.Im always using steam and looked there first for it.This type of game is an instant buy for me.The auto updates would be very handy.I believe your exposure on Steam would make any hassle or costs worthwhile.The customers are there and are itching for good games like this.
Quote from: Haplo on February 25, 2015, 01:24:05 PM
It seems that everyone always ignores the big question: is the release of a game on steam in its alpha stage really the best way to go?
You have only one hype after the initial release, where you attract the most customers. And if you don't reach even half of them, because it isn't a finished game, will you reach them later when it's finished, or have you sold the game by then to a much reduced price in a summer sale?
I think these are fundamental questions for any firm. What most people tend to ignore is that Ludeon is a firm which wants to reach as much customers as possible to a price as high as possible, so that future projects can be financed.
This isn't anything against any customer, this is just something every firm needs to think about.
How can I finance my next project as best as I can, or do I want to go bankrupt anytime soon?
Just my personal opinion..
Exactly this.
The game should be as polished as possible for the steam release. That gives it the best shot at being a huge hit.
Early Access is great if you need it to make your game happen, but if you use it when you don't need to you will be unnecessarily burning out many of your most loyal players (those who are so excited about the game that they buy it as soon as it appears on Steam) before the game is released, reducing your overall hype at launch when the game is in its most impressive state.
If Tynan keeps going at his current pace and releases the game whenever he feels it's ready, RimWorld is pretty much guaranteed to be a huge hit on Steam.
Quote from: Justin C on February 26, 2015, 01:53:57 AMEarly Access is great if you need it to make your game happen, but if you use it when you don't need to you will be unnecessarily burning out many of your most loyal players (those who are so excited about the game that they buy it as soon as it appears on Steam) before the game is released, reducing your overall hype at launch when the game is in its most impressive state.
Evidence or is this just an opinion?
PLEASE READ:
The topic isn't asking for a full Steam release (yet) and it isn't asking about Early Access. There is apparently a THIRD option.
It's asking about the model that Stonehearth is currently using - where you buy a Steam key via Stonehearth's site, and that is the only method of playing it on Steam. It doesn't even show up on Steam, if searched for. There is no forum, there is no page, there is NOTHING.
There would be no drawbacks, like Early Access games usually have.
There would still be an official release, as it isn't added to the Steam roster of games until the dev gives the green light.
The topic is just asking if we can replicate that, nothing else.
IF YOU CAN FIND A FLAW WITH THIS, than please say so. There's no need to argue about EA/full Steam release.
Quote from: Mikhail Reign on February 26, 2015, 02:54:54 AM
Quote from: Justin C on February 26, 2015, 01:53:57 AMEarly Access is great if you need it to make your game happen, but if you use it when you don't need to you will be unnecessarily burning out many of your most loyal players (those who are so excited about the game that they buy it as soon as it appears on Steam) before the game is released, reducing your overall hype at launch when the game is in its most impressive state.
Evidence or is this just an opinion?
What does that have to do with anything? You can still buy the game now. By that logic, it shouldn't be sold here, on steam, in your dreams, etc until it's 100% complete.
Who cares if idiots get "burned out" by the time for release? That's their problem.
I'd understand if this were some MP FPS game and you need people to kill to have fun, but this is a SP PVE game. Doesn't matter if you are the only one playing or 6 billion.
What matters to me is it gets funded well (exposure), it gets updates (as it is), hopefully get some type of auto update, ease-of-use reinstalling on a reloaded/new system.
I don't care if you like the game in alpha or finished or anything state.
Quote from: tommytom on February 25, 2015, 06:49:51 PMI have read now that even if it eventually gets on steam, I will probably not even get a steam key and will require manually downloading every update, which is sooooooo 1990s.
But I *LIKE* manually downloading every update. I don't WANT things making unauthorized changes to my computer unsolicited. I want to be able to review what, exactly, will happen should I install this, and then prepare accordingly before doing anything.
Quote from: tommytom on February 25, 2015, 06:49:51 PMThe main appeal to steam is a automatic updating system, community/blog updates right in the game info panel, and obviously the ease of access.
And the spyware. Don't forget the part where they know everything you have on your computer as a result of it hovering around, monitoring what you're doing, and spying on the contents of your system memory in some misguided attempt to stop you from "cheating". Or the part where they can just take away your stuff at whim. And don't say that this doesn't happen, it already has.
I, for one, am fine with this being Steam-free and would prefer it stay that way.
Quote from: lusername on February 27, 2015, 06:11:08 AM
Quote from: tommytom on February 25, 2015, 06:49:51 PMI have read now that even if it eventually gets on steam, I will probably not even get a steam key and will require manually downloading every update, which is sooooooo 1990s.
But I *LIKE* manually downloading every update. I don't WANT things making unauthorized changes to my computer unsolicited. I want to be able to review what, exactly, will happen should I install this, and then prepare accordingly before doing anything.
Quote from: tommytom on February 25, 2015, 06:49:51 PMThe main appeal to steam is a automatic updating system, community/blog updates right in the game info panel, and obviously the ease of access.
And the spyware. Don't forget the part where they know everything you have on your computer as a result of it hovering around, monitoring what you're doing, and spying on the contents of your system memory in some misguided attempt to stop you from "cheating". Or the part where they can just take away your stuff at whim. And don't say that this doesn't happen, it already has.
I, for one, am fine with this being Steam-free and would prefer it stay that way.
Have you not used Steam? Ever? You can disable automatic updates totally per game.
Also, Steam doesn't spy on anything. You need a tinfoil hat m8.
All it does is verify you have the game and that you are logged into an account that has that game. You can disable all that stuff. You can even play offline with steam games and disable all the in-game stuff.
As far as the anti-cheat stuff (VAC, etc), that's only for MP games. It's not required or even installed unless the game dev requires it to be played online.
And for not wanting Steam, that is your choice. No one said "I want the Steam version
ONLY." I'm sure Tynan will still have a way to download DRM-free non-Steam versions. Steam is just sooooo much easier.
Quote from: lusername on February 27, 2015, 06:11:08 AM
Quote from: tommytom on February 25, 2015, 06:49:51 PMI have read now that even if it eventually gets on steam, I will probably not even get a steam key and will require manually downloading every update, which is sooooooo 1990s.
But I *LIKE* manually downloading every update. I don't WANT things making unauthorized changes to my computer unsolicited. I want to be able to review what, exactly, will happen should I install this, and then prepare accordingly before doing anything.
Quote from: tommytom on February 25, 2015, 06:49:51 PMThe main appeal to steam is a automatic updating system, community/blog updates right in the game info panel, and obviously the ease of access.
And the spyware. Don't forget the part where they know everything you have on your computer as a result of it hovering around, monitoring what you're doing, and spying on the contents of your system memory in some misguided attempt to stop you from "cheating". Or the part where they can just take away your stuff at whim. And don't say that this doesn't happen, it already has.
I, for one, am fine with this being Steam-free and would prefer it stay that way.
Where did you get the idea that there's spyware from? There's VAC but that only checks you haven't modified certain game files for certain games. They aren't going to away your stuff without a reason, either.
Yeah I can tell ya 100% that if they could 'monitor ya memory' like you claim, SWIM would be having a few unpleasant discussions with Valve.
Also in most cases with most games that do this, the original host (Ludeon) would continue to host the files on their end as well, so those who don't want to use steam can still download the game via the email link - those who don't need tinfoil hats and that want to use steam, can use steam.
The opposition to this is quiet frankly, perplexing to say the least.
Quote from: TheVoidDragon on February 27, 2015, 12:27:10 PMWhere did you get the idea that there's spyware from? There's VAC but that only checks you haven't modified certain game files for certain games. They aren't going to away your stuff without a reason, either.
From what I hear, "Being German" is one of their reasons.
That's Germany though. Violent games are not allowed to be published or possibly even played(?). Blood is removed or green. L4D2 had to have "figures of authority" removed as it "promoted violence against them" (no cops, firefighters, etc).
Anyways, that's just for BUYING games THROUGH STEAM. VAC (if the game even requires it, which this one won't) shouldn't be checking what country you are from or anything like that. Just making sure you haven't modded your game files to cheat or running processes that enabling cheating (like see if cheatengine is running or a debugger/trainer that can modify game memory while running).
Steam is just a unified game distribution system and store. Anything else is optional/extra or enforced by the developers (blame the developers).
Quote from: tommytom on February 27, 2015, 06:04:18 PMAnyways, that's just for BUYING games THROUGH STEAM. VAC (if the game even requires it, which this one won't) shouldn't be checking what country you are from or anything like that. Just making sure you haven't modded your game files to cheat or running processes that enabling cheating (like see if cheatengine is running or a debugger/trainer that can modify game memory while running).
And at that point, you're snooping through the user's system memory and process table on an application that phones home. This is spyware. If you can see that, you can see everything else.
Quote from: lusername on March 01, 2015, 08:30:07 PM
Quote from: tommytom on February 27, 2015, 06:04:18 PMAnyways, that's just for BUYING games THROUGH STEAM. VAC (if the game even requires it, which this one won't) shouldn't be checking what country you are from or anything like that. Just making sure you haven't modded your game files to cheat or running processes that enabling cheating (like see if cheatengine is running or a debugger/trainer that can modify game memory while running).
And at that point, you're snooping through the user's system memory and process table on an application that phones home. This is spyware. If you can see that, you can see everything else.
Actually, no. There is a Windows API for grabbing the process list. I could write a single line of code that the OS willingly spits out the process list. By your standards, taskmanager is spyware since it has access to processes and monitors network activity (just to make graphs).
That's besides the point anyways as that is only MP VAC-enabled games. RimWorld won't have that and I haven't even seen it in any games recently and I don't have it installed on my system but I own 100+ Steam games. Probably just Valve MP games like Counter-Strike.
Quote from: tommytom on March 01, 2015, 11:30:26 PMActually, no. There is a Windows API for grabbing the process list. I could write a single line of code that the OS willingly spits out the process list. By your standards, taskmanager is spyware since it has access to processes and monitors network activity (just to make graphs).
Just because it's a windows API doesn't mean that it can't be used to create spyware.
Task Manager isn't spyware because it doesn't combine that with phoning the results home. Digs through things that don't belong to it + phoning home = spyware.
Quote from: lusername on March 03, 2015, 01:08:54 AMDigs through things that don't belong to it + phoning home = spyware.
So by that definition, you claim that Windows is spyware as well. As is any other program that has the feature "send anonymous data back to help improve the product".
Quote from: YamiKaitou on March 03, 2015, 07:52:31 AM
Quote from: lusername on March 03, 2015, 01:08:54 AMDigs through things that don't belong to it + phoning home = spyware.
So by that definition, you claim that Windows is spyware as well. As is any other program that has the feature "send anonymous data back to help improve the product".
Personally i categorize Windows as spyware, so i don't use it. But if a software has an opt-
in anonymous statistics feature, that wouldn't be spyware because it's disabled by default and it's up to you to allow it or not.
People are weird.
"Phoning home" is such a stupid term.
90% or more of your apps connect to the Internet and the majority of them connect to the developers website ("HOME"), so that means 90% of apps are spyware?
Third time now. This still has nothing to do with Steam. That's VAC, which wouldn't be used.
Any app at any time cant spy on you. Closed source can have code in it doing just about anything. Just because you use this or that app for the last 100 years doesn't mean someone won't trojan it one day and do nasty stuff without giving you the slightest idea. So, in that regard, I honestly don't give a **** as I'm not compiling everything from source after reading every single line of code (yes, an OSS can be compiled with trojans or bad code not in the public code or simple have trojan code right in the public code but no one reads it).