Yesterday I had someone shot in the liver - instant death as it destroyed it.
This made me think, as getting shot in the liver isn't going to instantly kill you.
The only instant death should be the brain.
I think all other organs should give you maybe a minute or two tops (depending on the organ) to get a transplant operation started.
It just feels a bit pointless to harvest spare organs right now - I'd like to have to keep a spare heart handy for that emergency operation trying to save someone while the other colonists keep the enemy at bay :)
Ooh and what about resuscitation?
Complete with brain damage if you've been dead too long.
It's just such a fantastic system - one of the best I've seen in any game.
But it can still be better :D
Bleeding out seems to have been sped up a bit in A9 as compared to A8. You have a lot less time to react and get the bleeding stopped. So while a liver injury might not kill you immediately, heavy internal bleeding can do you in pretty quickly. I always try and triage my injured and look for heavy blood loss / torso injuries as those kill the fastest so they get medical treatment first over the guys shot in the legs or arms.
I just lost a really good fighter yesterday in my game because I chose to heal up someone I thought was injured worse but I was mistaken and my doctor was literally AT his bedside about to administer the med-kit when he bled out and died. :(
Yeah I actually like the faster bleeding out, I think it was way too slow before.
I'm just not keen on the insta-death thing, it doesn't feel realistic like the rest of the medical system does.
Quote from: CreepyD on February 27, 2015, 03:31:53 PMThe only instant death should be the brain.
I just can't help but laugh at this... and here is why: Your guy died instantly because he was shot in the kidney, yet I have a guy who is, albeit bed ridden for life and with literally the top
half of his list "very weak", still alive and with an "old gunshot wound" to the
brain!
Makes me wonder... WTF happens in the next 3500 years that our kidneys become the focal point of our very being and our brains are just secondary. XD
EDIT: Too much boozing, perhaps?
It also seems very strange that we cant carry a med kit around with us in our inventory (like the door key) so that we can make on the spot repair/tend to wounded comrades. Has it stands now they bleed out so fast that you cant get them back to base to heal them up and what if it was your doctor that was injured, well you are SOL to save him. We have the inventory space/back pack, please use it for something other than door key and gold/silver and the occasional package survival meal.
Quote from: PKGameOnly on February 27, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
It also seems very strange that we cant carry a med kit around with us in our inventory (like the door key) so that we can make on the spot repair/tend to wounded comrades. Has it stands now they bleed out so fast that you cant get them back to base to heal them up and what if it was your doctor that was injured, well you are SOL to save him. We have the inventory space/back pack, please use it for something other than door key and gold/silver and the occasional package survival meal.
I can't say that I've ever really had an issue with bleeding out. I just had a winter go by, the whole map was covered in snow, slowing speed down to half, and I sent a colonist out to rescue a pod dropped person. They had to cross at least half the map, both ways, and I play on the largest map size. Unless the cold slowed or stopped them from bleeding out, the bleed out isn't as fast as it's made out to be.
Quote from: Silvador on February 27, 2015, 05:35:27 PM
Quote from: PKGameOnly on February 27, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
It also seems very strange that we cant carry a med kit around with us in our inventory (like the door key) so that we can make on the spot repair/tend to wounded comrades. Has it stands now they bleed out so fast that you cant get them back to base to heal them up and what if it was your doctor that was injured, well you are SOL to save him. We have the inventory space/back pack, please use it for something other than door key and gold/silver and the occasional package survival meal.
I can't say that I've ever really had an issue with bleeding out. I just had a winter go by, the whole map was covered in snow, slowing speed down to half, and I sent a colonist out to rescue a pod dropped person. They had to cross at least half the map, both ways, and I play on the largest map size. Unless the cold slowed or stopped them from bleeding out, the bleed out isn't as fast as it's made out to be.
Depends on how fast the bleeding is. It varies per injury. Also, what size map are you talking, and what is the pawn's base speed?
I've seen bleedouts before treatment can happen, but that was mostly due to my hospital being too far into the base. Now I know to keep Jail and Sickbay across the hall from each other, and right beside the medkit storage, very near to the entrance, so rescued/captured pawns get treated as quickly as possible.
Quote from: MsMeiriona on February 27, 2015, 05:57:21 PM
Quote from: Silvador on February 27, 2015, 05:35:27 PM
Quote from: PKGameOnly on February 27, 2015, 05:29:18 PM
It also seems very strange that we cant carry a med kit around with us in our inventory (like the door key) so that we can make on the spot repair/tend to wounded comrades. Has it stands now they bleed out so fast that you cant get them back to base to heal them up and what if it was your doctor that was injured, well you are SOL to save him. We have the inventory space/back pack, please use it for something other than door key and gold/silver and the occasional package survival meal.
I can't say that I've ever really had an issue with bleeding out. I just had a winter go by, the whole map was covered in snow, slowing speed down to half, and I sent a colonist out to rescue a pod dropped person. They had to cross at least half the map, both ways, and I play on the largest map size. Unless the cold slowed or stopped them from bleeding out, the bleed out isn't as fast as it's made out to be.
Depends on how fast the bleeding is. It varies per injury. Also, what size map are you talking, and what is the pawn's base speed?
I've seen bleedouts before treatment can happen, but that was mostly due to my hospital being too far into the base. Now I know to keep Jail and Sickbay across the hall from each other, and right beside the medkit storage, very near to the entrance, so rescued/captured pawns get treated as quickly as possible.
As I said, largest map size. What's that, 400x400, I think?
As for the colonist's base speed... standard, I suppose? But the snow reduced movement speed to about 57% And people that pop out of those random pods that drop down don't exactly come out unscathed.
No liver = insta-death because you could harvest a liver and keep harvesting while they die from whatever having your liver out does to you. Balancing, I guess.
I have had someone instantly die from one shot, but it was to the heart. That's pretty realistic.
Shot to the brain is not always instant death (despite what Hollywood tells you). You mostly just get brain damage. It depends on where you are hit in the brain or how much damage is done and even then you could "live" but be brain dead. The game is pretty accurate in this matter.
To fix the liver problem, Tynan would have to add something in the "liver removed" or "liver destroyed" spot that slowly kills someone. That is, if he is OK with people surviving after having their liver harvested (that would be 4 organs you could harvest before the victim dies).
If anything, just fix it so "destroyed" (as in battle) slowly makes them die or simply bleeds. You would have to implant a liver at some point though. Even dialysis is not a permanent solution, and they would have to stay in bed. Or go into cryo.
Actually, its entirely possible to put healing off till later, i had a colonist hurt badly and i had no med kits, so i sent one of my colonists to put him into one of the cryo pods i had inside a room and waited... i about forgot about him
Shooting the kidney causes unfiltered alcohol in the blood (because your silly colonists forgot how to drink and now intravenously inject alcohol, as is spacer way) to ignite, thus instantly killing your colonist.
I'm all for fast bleeding and slight but permanent damage to organs. Scarring is a hell of a thing to your internal organs and abdominal surgeries have the tendency of causing a recurring state of 'adhesions', thin strips of tissue your body produces to attach organs together, which harm it more than help it and are extremely painful. But of course, partly because of adhesions and the fact that most arteries can cause a human to bleed out in 5 minutes if severed, a dead-on realistic medical system might not be the best idea, so yeah, just cause heavy liver damage that CAN be healed.
What's even the point of being able to harvest a liver if there is no state between a healthy liver and a dead colonist? Or can livers get scarred?
Livers can get scarred, its rare though, so you might as well only do it to sell.
Quote from: cultist on February 27, 2015, 10:23:14 PM
What's even the point of being able to harvest a liver if there is no state between a healthy liver and a dead colonist? Or can livers get scarred?
Infection.
The real question is why you wastefully harvest someone's entire liver. Livers have this interesting property of being the only organ that can regenerate even if most of it is lost. Harvest half of their liver and it will grow back, so you can harvest it again.
Quote from: lusername on February 28, 2015, 02:34:24 AM
The real question is why you wastefully harvest someone's entire liver. Livers have this interesting property of being the only organ that can regenerate even if most of it is lost. Harvest half of their liver and it will grow back, so you can harvest it again.
But then you only get a useless, half liver harvested. I'm guessing it's probably not going to regenerate once it has been removed from any source of nutrients aka the body. And with no way to attach it to another body in order to collect nutrients to regrow, what is the point?
Some interesting thoughts here.
I also saw mentioned about harvesting organs - I haven't bothered so far since people being hit in the heart / liver / brain etc are generally killed in 1 shot anyway.
I never thought about infection, but it's much cheaper to buy medicine than replacement organs.
Quote from: CreepyD on February 27, 2015, 03:31:53 PM
The only instant death should be the brain.
I don't think so, yesterday I had one of my best colonists shot in the brain, somehow it barely didn't kill him but the price for it was very high.
-50% to all senses, speaking, manipulation, moving, ...
The once great colonist leading negociations and hunting-missions now has been degraded to the calm life of a cook. Barely leaving the colony and suffering from mild cabin fever which I interpret as him thinking of his glory days in the past.
personally after last patch it feels like people die a lot easier on your own side :/
i feel like people die WAY too randomly, sometimes i have enemies shot like 10 times+ still not downed, and others i get hit ONCE and instantly dead o.O
it just seems stupid and silly.
depending on the weaponry no shot should instantly kill you..
i think the downing mechanic should be used A LOT! more and people should die from lack of care, bloodloss, lack of organ transplant etc.
even shots through the head should be ok if you had a bionic brain or something to suff in your colonist, considering the other impossible stuff you can do ;)
Does brain damage only slow down the colonist?
Cause if that the case.. it sorta makes sense, but you would think they would forget how to do things or be unable to do things.
Depends on the severity. You can have a "vegetable" if it gets damaged too much, or instantly dead, or simply slowed. I don't think there is a degree of slowed/damage though, but I haven't had anyone but a vegetable from brain damage.
Quote from: lusername on February 28, 2015, 02:34:24 AM
The real question is why you wastefully harvest someone's entire liver. Livers have this interesting property of being the only organ that can regenerate even if most of it is lost. Harvest half of their liver and it will grow back, so you can harvest it again.
because it doesn't grow back perfectly, meaning you can only split the liver into two livers, and they will heal, but not again into 4 (maybe, but it can cause problems)
Quote from: woolfoma on March 03, 2015, 12:10:20 AM
because it doesn't grow back perfectly, meaning you can only split the liver into two livers, and they will heal, but not again into 4 (maybe, but it can cause problems)
But it does! That's actually how it is done in real life when livers are donated, you donate a part of a liver and both parts grow back, so everyone has a liver. The liver is unique among organs for its ability to regenerate if even a relatively small percentage remains intact.
It would give us a reason to keep a veg alive...
Quote from: CodyRex123 on March 03, 2015, 09:44:24 AM
It would give us a reason to keep a veg alive...
Heh.
-25 moodlet for "using colonist to grow organs"
Quote from: tommytom on March 03, 2015, 05:50:15 PM
Quote from: CodyRex123 on March 03, 2015, 09:44:24 AM
It would give us a reason to keep a veg alive...
Heh.
-25 moodlet for "using colonist to grow organs"
One word: bioponics.
Now we can run our own ORGAN FARMS!
Actually, i think that should be a thing, if you get a certain type of body part, and have it put in someone, it can regrow when taken out and such, i always thought of it as a thing that was put in someones blood to have the organs regrow.
Quote from: lusername on March 03, 2015, 01:13:15 AM
Quote from: woolfoma on March 03, 2015, 12:10:20 AM
because it doesn't grow back perfectly, meaning you can only split the liver into two livers, and they will heal, but not again into 4 (maybe, but it can cause problems)
But it does! That's actually how it is done in real life when livers are donated, you donate a part of a liver and both parts grow back, so everyone has a liver. The liver is unique among organs for its ability to regenerate if even a relatively small percentage remains intact.
Actually, I found this quote from a liver doner:
"Living liver donor here. There is a bit of an anatomical issue. Your liver is split into two lobes, one on the right, one on the left. The hepatic artery, vein and bile duct all branch with one leg going to each lobe. When you donate, they take one lobe, along with it's branches of each connection to connect to the recipient's anatomy. Your remaining lobe then quickly swells to fill the space, giving you the same volume of liver, but you never get the other lobe back."Liver donations would be a neat operation and game feature, but kinda complicated in code since it's only really safe to donate your liver once.