With the new feature of someone automaticly joining your colony early on (which I personally don't like) I got the worst person ever, the only thing he could do was talk and eat which isn't very productive to my early settlement so the best sollution I see now is just killing him.
But what if we could teach them to do stuff, it can't be THAT hard to learn how to dig a hole, throw a potato in it and close it again?
That's why I suggest a new feature, learning!
Basicly, you can enable some who's incapable of something (like planting) and instead of starting to work he'd first have to learn how to do it. Who's the teacher you might ask?
Well simply, the colonist who already performs that job and with the highest skill in that job would automaticly become a tutor for the student.
This means two things:
-If nobody knows how to do a certain job, then nobody will ever be able to do it because there's nobody to teach it. Off course someone who joins the colony could have some experience.
-In my example with planting, you best planter would now spent most of his work teaching the student making himself less productive but in the end (after a week mayby) you'd have an extra gardener!
This way we don't get these utterly stupid and useless people that are incapable of performing the most simple of tasks. Wether they like these tasks is a whole different story, a medieval lord having to work in the fields wouldn't be too happy with his new life as a farmer I can imagine.
Now in my example planting is a rather simple profession (sorry for all farmers out there!) so it should be relativly easy to learn but let's say becoming a good doctor would take severall years easily, while he's learning he could still be an assistent though.
And then there are skills that you can't really learn, like being social for example. These are determined by one's personallity and change dynamicly throughout one's life.
Naturally, the higher the skill of the tutor, the faster the student learns along with the motivation of the student. Who knows he has a hidden passion for it?
Lastly I think this could also allow greater diversion between people, someone capable of doing everything will be extremely rare, instead they will be focused in a specific profession like being a doctor but totally suck at cooking.
Quote from: Headshotkill on April 19, 2015, 04:29:19 PM
it can't be THAT hard to learn how to dig a hole, throw a potato in it and close it again?
Soil: Moisture content, nutrient content, acidity, salinity, moisture buffering capacity, nutrient retainment, acidity buffering capacity, salinity build-up, and probably a lot more.
External factors: Diseases, parasites, pests, fungi, pesticide health risks, pesticide resistance, pollination, cross-pollination, undesirable cross-pollination, etc.
General issues: Temperature, air moisture content, rain, snow, dust, trampling by idiot neighbours, determining harvesting time, etc.
Hell, even the depth at which you bury the potato is relevant.
Easy storage for crops such as potatoes:
http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/How_to_make_a_potato_storage_mound/
I'm sorry but farming can get quite complicated.
True, Doctors have it worse, potatoes don't argue about what disease they have. Also, mistakes are more acceptable for farmers.
I'm only an amateur gardener with a focus on useful plants, I'm sure real farmers have tons of knowledge I don't.
Quote from: Regret on April 20, 2015, 06:23:07 AM
Quote from: Headshotkill on April 19, 2015, 04:29:19 PM
it can't be THAT hard to learn how to dig a hole, throw a potato in it and close it again?
Soil: Moisture content, nutrient content, acidity, salinity, moisture buffering capacity, nutrient retainment, acidity buffering capacity, salinity build-up, and probably a lot more.
External factors: Diseases, parasites, pests, fungi, pesticide health risks, pesticide resistance, pollination, cross-pollination, undesirable cross-pollination, etc.
General issues: Temperature, air moisture content, rain, snow, dust, trampling by idiot neighbours, determining harvesting time, etc.
Hell, even the depth at which you bury the potato is relevant.
Easy storage for crops such as potatoes:
http://www.waldeneffect.org/blog/How_to_make_a_potato_storage_mound/
I'm sorry but farming can get quite complicated.
True, Doctors have it worse, potatoes don't argue about what disease they have. Also, mistakes are more acceptable for farmers.
I'm only an amateur gardener with a focus on useful plants, I'm sure real farmers have tons of knowledge I don't.
While I do think gardening IRL ain't as simple as one might think I thought the game already let you take care of some things.
Like looking for fertile soil, and considering diseases there already is an event in which a blight destroys your crops so that's in too. However, as much as I'd like the farming system to be expanded and more complicated I have to keep focus myself on one suggestion at the time and right now that is learning stuff.
+1 for this. How can someone be incapable of learning how to pick stuff up, walk, then put it down? (Hauling) one of my biggest pet peeves with this game. I usually just kill them. Useless pricks lmao
Quote from: Cracker21 on April 20, 2015, 06:27:04 PM
How can someone be incapable of learning how to pick stuff up, walk, then put it down?
Keep in mind that this isn't necessarily about whether someone can LEARN something, but whether doing something violates a person's ethics or is below their station.
Considering even someone with "0" ability in a skill can, with enough time, train to become an expert, I think permanently disallowing certain behaviors makes the game far more interesting.
Quote from: Benny the Icepick on April 20, 2015, 06:49:36 PM
Quote from: Cracker21 on April 20, 2015, 06:27:04 PM
How can someone be incapable of learning how to pick stuff up, walk, then put it down?
Keep in mind that this isn't necessarily about whether someone can LEARN something, but whether doing something violates a person's ethics or is below their station.
Considering even someone with "0" ability in a skill can, with enough time, train to become an expert, I think permanently disallowing certain behaviors makes the game far more interesting.
However it would mean that you would start with 3 people that are very polarized, a minister who lived on an urbworld likely has a very good social skill but completly lacks most other survival skills. Right now you often get people who can do pretty much anything, it would be interesting to see the evolution of a person, going from a specific highly trained skill to a more usefull skill set, spread out over the key-skills for surviving in a colony.
I think people not beeing able to do something, like cleaning or hauling; is more because they WONT do that work then that they cant do it. AS in, they believe them beyond that work and simply wont do it.
I think noble is one of those classes that simply wont do manual labour. People are to stuck up to adjust to their new lives as colonists.
Quote from: Demoulius on April 21, 2015, 02:51:04 AM
I think people not beeing able to do something, like cleaning or hauling; is more because they WONT do that work then that they cant do it. AS in, they believe them beyond that work and simply wont do it.
I think noble is one of those classes that simply wont do manual labour. People are to stuck up to adjust to their new lives as colonists.
I can imagine they'd be very snobbish but it's the rim and without some teamwork/spirit you won't make it out alive. This ain't a holiday, they might hate hauling some food but if you're going to starve if you don't haul it, I'm pretty sure those noble-habits will dissapear over time.
Which brings me to another addition to the suggestion, the speed at which someone learns a skill also depends on their motivation for learning it. Which in term is based on the will to learn something or the need to learn something.
I've been thinking about the negative side of learning new skills, so far I've only been giving pros but a good feature should also have some contras.
Basicly, the more skills one has learned the higher the rate of skill-rust.
Meaning if someone is an amazing cook if he learns how to mine/cut stone/repair/... then he will be less focused on cooking meaning his cooking-skill will degrade faster.
So it might be wise in late-game colonies to keep some people the way they are, which shouldn't be a problem by then because the colony can probably run itself by then.
In the end you will evolve from a small group of people that can do everything to a larger group of people split into different skill-groups, like IRL:
-Farmers
-Cooks
-Mechanics
-Miners
-Higher class (basicly those with high social skill who represent the colony to outsiders, like nobles in DF)
-...
*Bumb*
Alright, I've been thinking about it for a minute now.
IF I succeed in my entry exam for university next week which means I'll have three months of vacation I'll try and learn modding so I can make it myself and see if it works.
If not then I'll have to learn for another two months till the next entry exam, please pray for me! ::)
They learn as they do jobs already.
Quote from: DDawgSierra on June 30, 2015, 11:55:59 AM
They learn as they do jobs already.
You don't understand, this is so people who are INCAPABLE of doing something for a none-physical reason can now learn new skills.
I don't think they should have to LEARN it, I think there needs to be some shock or disaster that forces them to do it, unlocking there ability to do it.
Pretty cool! +1
Quote from: DDawgSierra on June 30, 2015, 01:14:36 PM
I don't think they should have to LEARN it, I think there needs to be some shock or disaster that forces them to do it, unlocking there ability to do it.
You have to split skills that someone is incapable of doing in two groups:
1.The ones that the person lacks the knowledge and experience for, in order to fullfill.
2.The ones that the person lacks the will and or mental strength for, in order to fullfill.
What I understand with you mentioning the shock/disaster unlocking a skill or the ability to do it, fits into the second group.
The thing I'm mainly focusing on, in this suggestion is the first group of skills.
"I am a Noble. Hauling bricks is beneath me. But if I had just helped him with the turret construction, he may still be alive right now."
Shell-shocked No longer incapable of Hauling
Something like that?
Sounds awesome.
Quote from: StorymasterQ on June 30, 2015, 08:36:47 PM
"I am a Noble. Hauling bricks is beneath me. But if I had just helped him with the turret construction, he may still be alive right now."
Shell-shocked No longer incapable of Hauling
Something like that?
That sounds really cool. :D
Branching off of that, it would be awesome if colonists had an events tab where noteworthy events that affected them individually in a significant way would be recorded. It could really expand the storytelling aspect of the game, I think.
Quote from: StorymasterQ on June 30, 2015, 08:36:47 PM
"I am a Noble. Hauling bricks is beneath me. But if I had just helped him with the turret construction, he may still be alive right now."
Shell-shocked No longer incapable of Hauling
Something like that?
That sounds very good but I'm not sure how you can make the AI realise it was the noble man's fault, who knows the turret wouldn't have saved the person that died?
I was thinking of a 'force enable' action which would give the noble man a strong debuf to his mood. Over time, and I'm talking about like half a rim year this debuf would dissapear. In stages like:
1. I can't believe I have to do such insulting tasks! (Mood -10)
2. I hate the jobs I have to do but I guess I have no choice. (Mood -5)
3. Although I prefer my old life, I should make the best of what I have now. (No more mood debuf)
Along with that I think there should be a new soft mental break down, melancholy. It wouldn't result in the person leaving the colony but it would make him a lot less productive, he will eat less, be more prone to illnes, make longer walks outside the colony and want more private time. It could go both ways from here on out, or he gets happier again or he goes into full depression with suicidal thoughts and more.
This is a good idea, but I also think that most colonists should be permantly disabled with those skills and can't learn how to do them and only some colonists could enable these skills again.
Quote from: Headshotkill on July 01, 2015, 02:46:30 AM
That sounds very good but I'm not sure how you can make the AI realise it was the noble man's fault, who knows the turret wouldn't have saved the person that died?
I was thinking of a 'force enable' action which would give the noble man a strong debuf to his mood. Over time, and I'm talking about like half a rim year this debuf would dissapear. In stages like:
1. I can't believe I have to do such insulting tasks! (Mood -10)
2. I hate the jobs I have to do but I guess I have no choice. (Mood -5)
3. Although I prefer my old life, I should make the best of what I have now. (No more mood debuf)
Along with that I think there should be a new soft mental break down, melancholy. It wouldn't result in the person leaving the colony but it would make him a lot less productive, he will eat less, be more prone to illnes, make longer walks outside the colony and want more private time. It could go both ways from here on out, or he gets happier again or he goes into full depression with suicidal thoughts and more.
I think that incapable jobs should be treated like you suggested where you can enable them for a mood penalty but that the value of the mood penalty is dependent on the situation of your colony, What I mean by this is that the number of colonist should effect how they feel about doing the job, an example being.
1. with 7 or less colonists - "I guess if I want to survive I'll have to do everything I can" no penalty
2. with 14 or less colonists - "I know its about survival but surly someone else could do this?" -5 penalty
3. with 21 or less colonists - "I can't believe I have to do such a demeaning task!" -10 penalty
4. with 22 or more colonists - "NO! get someone else to do it!" becomes incapable and refuses to do it anymore.
I think this way if you get a incapable colonist early in the game they can still be useful to the colony but they remain "incapable" in that they never stop disliking those job, even if they do the job for 10 years they still hate it they just accept that it has to be done... at least until theirs someone else to do it.
*Bumb*
Been a while since I've visited these forums...
If they're incapable of something this mean that hey CAN'T do it or they don't WANT, learning is actually in the game. From "0" you can become a master. But i would like to see some mechanics that makes someone do it even if they don't want it, but in cost of humor. I think that there is a simple way to do it. In page when you can choose who do what, you could select skills even when colonists are incapable to do it, but these colonists would have this skill on 0 and learning would be really slow + they would be unhappy. For example if medieval lord would need to harvest a potato or he would starve i think he would do it, but i don't think he really would like to learn something about farming and he would really unhappy about it. Learning mechanic would be too hard to make.
P.S.
I lost internet connection... I though i will need to post it again. Hopefully this time my post saved.
Before someone says: "neurotrainer", neurotrainers work by pouring experience into a skill. That means a person with no passion gets very little benefit. A person with a burning passion who is Too Smart will become a genius. Neurotrainers don't help people who need it the most.
Quote from: Demoulius on April 21, 2015, 02:51:04 AM
I think people not beeing able to do something, like cleaning or hauling; is more because they WONT do that work then that they cant do it. AS in, they believe them beyond that work and simply wont do it.
I think noble is one of those classes that simply wont do manual labour. People are to stuck up to adjust to their new lives as colonists.
Pretty much.
Hell, look at Jamestown, a GREAT real-world equivalent to Rimworld. The original settlers were all noble/"gentlemen", who essentially refused to do physical labor, believing it beneath them. They all were starving and dying from diseases until an authority figure (John Smith) refused to give them food until they got to work. Then, he got injured and sent back to England, the work stopped, and they all died.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamestown,_Virginia
Quote from: Demoulius on April 21, 2015, 02:51:04 AM
I think people not beeing able to do something, like cleaning or hauling; is more because they WONT do that work then that they cant do it. AS in, they believe them beyond that work and simply wont do it.
I think noble is one of those classes that simply wont do manual labour. People are to stuck up to adjust to their new lives as colonists.
"These sad saps. They come to Rapture thinking they're gonna be captains of industry, but they all forget that somebody's gotta scrub the toilets."