Which is best, lots of small rooms or few large rooms?
And how big must a building be so a colonist wouldnt get a debuff? I have a 10x11 house for each of my settler, which is quite big, but they still get the debbuf.
Quote from: Sacarathe on December 03, 2013, 07:53:45 AM
Which is best, lots of small rooms or few large rooms?
The "small room" penalty only lasts as long as your colonists are in cramped quarters (so they disappear when your colonists are no longer in their small bedrooms) while the "shared room" penalty lasts forever even if your colonists are outside, provided that they are still sharing the same bedroom. The normal cramped penalty (-5 happiness) is also less than the shared bedroom penalty (-8 happiness).
You can cheese around the system a bit by designating beds for prisoners and reassigning them back to colonists -- colonists who do not have a claimed bed will never suffer from the "shared room" penalty. Generally not worthwhile, as you would have to repeat it every night, but it is useful for emergency cases like when a colonist on the verge of a mental break.
Quote from: andriusha on December 03, 2013, 09:36:08 AM
And how big must a building be so a colonist wouldnt get a debuff? I have a 10x11 house for each of my settler, which is quite big, but they still get the debbuf.
You need a minimum of 27 walkable tiles, so a 6x5 (interior dimensions) would work with room for three flowerpots (or one flowerpot and one equipment rack). A 4x7 room would work as well, with only room for one flowerpot. Make sure the bed's pillow isn't on one of the corner tiles though. A pillow that borders at least two walls will always give the cramped penalty, regardless of the actual size of the room.
Incidentally, having less then 7 walkable tiles will give a more severe cramped penalty (-10 happiness instead of -5).
In any case, it isn't overly critical to assign individual, large-sized rooms to your colonists, especially for your first three colonists in the first ten days of the game (as they have a "new colony" bonus). Generally, you only need to cater to your miners and the corpse haulers. The other colonists are usually happy enough to not require better rooms, and the soldiers get hit with fear bonuses so often so their loyalty is usually pretty high anyway.
Speaking about fear, it is a much easier method to enforce loyalty instead of happiness, as you no longer need to accommodate to the needs of your colonists.
I usually go for simple 3x3 individual rooms for each colonist, each with a light and a flower pot. The flowers help counteract the -5 penalty, and it's not like -5 is big anyways (You get -8 just from eating).
Quote from: DeltaV on December 05, 2013, 06:46:22 AMI usually go for simple 3x3 individual rooms for each colonist, each with a light and a flower pot. The flowers help counteract the -5 penalty, and it's not like -5 is big anyways (You get -8 just from eating).
Technically speaking, the pot and the light are unnecessary. Colonists don't suffer darkness penalties whilst sleeping, nor do they benefit from flower bonii whilst sleeping. They only receive the penalty from the cramped environs, which acts upon them all night; meanwhile, the flowerpot bonus will only apply for a split second while they leave their bedroom.
I usually instantly charge with my 2 miners+settler team at rock near geyser and make hall, leave some space so i can make later some tunnels for bunkers then i make cantine with comdesk on one side leaving the other for armoury in future.
From this point i build only bedrooms with 10x3 space(Bed must be in middle to avoid crampled evironment debuff).
Flower pots are much better in the hall than in rooms, also colonists don't get buffs from them while sleeping and you need few of them in one room.
Lamps are usually like pots, but because i don't use turrets but M-16/R-4/Einfield spammers in bunkers i build them lamps for short buff.
i use 2x4 rooms and have no issues.. granted im a ruthless person who uses fear to keep them happy lol
Quote from: W1Z23 on December 05, 2013, 01:11:29 PM
i use 2x4 rooms and have no issues.. granted im a ruthless person who uses fear to keep them happy lol
Whats point of making separate rooms if you can keep them loyal with prisoner executions?
Are we talking about a POW camp? XD
i'm using 5x6. cos 5x5 is still cramped.
Quote from: nnescio on December 03, 2013, 09:57:10 AM
You need a minimum of 27 walkable tiles, so a 6x5 (interior dimensions) would work with room for three flowerpots (or one flowerpot and one equipment rack). A 4x7 room would work as well, with only room for one flowerpot. Make sure the bed's pillow isn't on one of the corner tiles though. A pillow that borders at least two walls will always give the cramped penalty, regardless of the actual size of the room.
I don't Know how to explain it right, but I feel unsave with a bed which do not touch 2 walls. It also has to be placed on the opposite of the door. I need to face my escape route.
Quote from: Cdr.Keen on December 09, 2013, 06:36:16 AM
Quote from: nnescio on December 03, 2013, 09:57:10 AM
You need a minimum of 27 walkable tiles, so a 6x5 (interior dimensions) would work with room for three flowerpots (or one flowerpot and one equipment rack). A 4x7 room would work as well, with only room for one flowerpot. Make sure the bed's pillow isn't on one of the corner tiles though. A pillow that borders at least two walls will always give the cramped penalty, regardless of the actual size of the room.
I don't Know how to explain it right, but I feel unsave with a bed which do not touch 2 walls. It also has to be placed on the opposite of the door. I need to face my escape route.
Well, actually im using 5x6 because then i can place bed right next to door and nobody is crying about size when prisoner isn't in the middle of room.
If you really want to be evil you can use a 4x4 room with two beds.
(http://i.imgur.com/O9SPCSA.png)
Evil guy would make 3x3 room at egde of map so they get slept outdoor debuff as well. ::)
Evil guy would not build any beds, just Gibbet cages and would simply buy new slaves from Slave traders when the old die from exhaustment.
Sorry for necroing an old topic but it is related.
People talk about the debuffs but there are other considerations to consider too. It's occurred to me lately that my 40 people colony takes a lot of space and it's a struggle to find where to put the next room that is as close as possible to the kitchen. So it occurs to me that if I had everyone in one large room everyone would be really close to the kitchen so they could have fast starts to the morning and it would save a lot of resources that I would have used on room walls, floors and doors (as well as the corridors to the rooms).
So I'm thinking of trying a communal living area on my next colony with maybe single rooms for problem colonists. What do you think? Makes sense? Does anybody already do this?
Quote from: Rock5 on January 12, 2015, 09:55:43 PM
Sorry for necroing an old topic but it is related.
People talk about the debuffs but there are other considerations to consider too. It's occurred to me lately that my 40 people colony takes a lot of space and it's a struggle to find where to put the next room that is as close as possible to the kitchen. So it occurs to me that if I had everyone in one large room everyone would be really close to the kitchen so they could have fast starts to the morning and it would save a lot of resources that I would have used on room walls, floors and doors (as well as the corridors to the rooms).
So I'm thinking of trying a communal living area on my next colony with maybe single rooms for problem colonists. What do you think? Makes sense? Does anybody already do this?
You should keep expanding and build another kill-box, kitchen, workshop, kill-box, etc., if it is necessary.
If you have an effective small kill-box that can kill 60+ pirates, when you send colonists to clean up the mess, these colonists will suffer from observe corpse penalty so much. Their mood will gradually decrease so you may want the best bed room for them so they can rest. (colonists with iron-will and sanguine traits are perfect for this cleaning job (change to hauling in next build, I guess) )
Only room that you need to plan is prisoner room (most luxury room ever). Generally, you may want it to be at the center of the map so everyone can access warden activity while prisoners have a hard time to escape which increases the change of recruiting new colonists.
Quote from: Pathing on January 12, 2015, 11:15:08 PM
You should keep expanding and build another kill-box, kitchen, workshop, kill-box, etc., if it is necessary.
Wouldn't you have problems with people not going to the kitchen you intended them to go if you have more than 1 kitchen? Still the rooms take up a lot of space and waste resources.
Quote from: Pathing on January 12, 2015, 11:15:08 PM
If you have an effective small kill-box that can kill 60+ pirates, when you send colonists to clean up the mess, these colonists will suffer from observe corpse penalty so much. Their mood will gradually decrease so you may want the best bed room for them so they can rest. (colonists with iron-will and sanguine traits are perfect for this cleaning job (change to hauling in next build, I guess) )
You must play on a harder level than me. I think I'm playing Cassandra Builder mode. I get about 15 pirates at the moment after about 5 years and 40 colonists. My kill box handles 15 pirates easy, although recently they have been better armed and have been destroying a lot more of my turrets before fleeing. I've been thinking of a redesign. My colonists seem to handle seeing the dead bodies easy enough but I have a couple that have lower (or is it higher) cracking thresholds that would need their own room so they'd have 1 less thing to complain about.
Quote from: Pathing on January 12, 2015, 11:15:08 PMOnly room that you need to plan is prisoner room (most luxury room ever). Generally, you may want it to be at the center of the map so everyone can access warden activity while prisoners have a hard time to escape which increases the change of recruiting new colonists.
I already do that although I just stick a superior wood sculpture in there for the "Very pleasant environment" buff. I think this is the first colony that I've have separate prison rooms. They are off the hospital which is just of the kitchen. I have my best social colonist doing the recruiting. I assume they have the best chance. I only recruit another warden when I end up with too many prisoners for 1 to handle in a timely manner.
I just had a thought. I linked the prison rooms together without using a corridor because I was running out of space. Why do we even need corridors for the bedrooms? I doubt there is a debuff for people walking through your room while you are trying to sleep. That would save a lot of space and make adding rooms a lot easier. So I think I'll try communal living in my next colony but if I don't like it I'll build rooms without corridors in the next colony.
Quote from: Rock5 on January 13, 2015, 01:50:31 AM
I doubt there is a debuff for people walking through your room while you are trying to sleep.
There is in A9, apparently.
Quote from: Changelog
Dec 22
- Colonists are now bothered by people walking around inside the room while they sleep.
QuoteWouldn't you have problems with people not going to the kitchen you intended them to go if you have more than 1 kitchen? Still the rooms take up a lot of space and waste resources.
No, because I had canteen+garden+kitchen+food storage room next to each other.
I had 30-33 colonists or less per this set. My colony could easily consume 2000 steel in 2-3 days and I needed to buy more blocks from traders. With many colonists I don't think you will have a problem about manpower. I always play on Cassandra which scales on the number of colonists+wealth on extreme challenge which gives me about 2x the number of colonists which yields great amount of profit for every raids that let me buy lots of steel, blocks and many goods in exchange of pirate goods.
Since you play in builder mode, it may seem to be a problem that you can not find those resources easily but in extreme challenge mode, to acquire these goods, it is easy which, in this case, means less time consuming because of higher number of raiders.
QuoteI already do that although I just stick a superior wood sculpture in there for the "Very pleasant environment" buff. I think this is the first colony that I've have separate prison rooms. They are off the hospital which is just of the kitchen. I have my best social colonist doing the recruiting. I assume they have the best chance. I only recruit another warden when I end up with too many prisoners for 1 to handle in a timely manner.
You need some separate rooms for prisoners and may be more separate rooms. The problem is that they may get mad after seeing their old mates died after they are captured. They may attack other prisoners and may be killed by warden by punching or other prisoners are dead because of their psychotic thought. Abrasive trait prisoners are troublesome as well. You need to separate them to public abrasive prisoner room later but since you play on builder mode, it will take, probably, many many hours to reach that point.
Quote from: StorymasterQ on January 13, 2015, 01:59:39 AM
Quote from: Rock5 on January 13, 2015, 01:50:31 AM
I doubt there is a debuff for people walking through your room while you are trying to sleep.
There is in A9, apparently.
Quote from: Changelog
Dec 22
- Colonists are now bothered by people walking around inside the room while they sleep.
Thanks for the heads up. Oh well. I wonder how much the debuff will be. Does that mean if you use shared accomodation they will get 2 debuffs, "Shared bedroom" and "Someone walking in room"?
Quote from: Pathing on January 13, 2015, 03:56:50 AM
QuoteYou need some separate rooms for prisoners and may be more separate rooms. The problem is that they may get mad after seeing their old mates died after they are captured. They may attack other prisoners and may be killed by warden by punching or other prisoners are dead because of their psychotic thought. Abrasive trait prisoners are troublesome as well. You need to separate them to public abrasive prisoner room later but since you play on builder mode, it will take, probably, many many hours to reach that point.
Never had anything like that happen to me on the easier mode. I treat them right, feed them chat with them and they have never become psychotic on me. I might have to try a harder mode 1 of these days but the enjoyment in the game for me is the building so I'm not too bothered if the events are too easy.
Quote from: Sacarathe on December 03, 2013, 07:53:45 AM
Which is best, lots of small rooms or few large rooms?
I always go for small 2x2 rooms with one bed and door. Cramped debuff is ignorable because it does not stay. Easy to heat/cool through the main coridor.
Shared bedrooms are more likely will lead to mental snaps because of permanent debuff, but they are the most cost effective (less space and walls per pawn).
And large rooms are just a waste of resources. Hard to heat/cool, takes too much space, expensive on walls and floor. And all this for buff, that will fade away when pawn will go out of the room.
I normally do 1x3 room, 1 tile for the door to the room, and then 2 tiles for the bed. Bedroom sorted ^^ Leaves plenty of room for other stuff in the fortress.
Good point, maybe I'll do that next time.
Leird, any reason why you have a square for the door? I assume you mean between the bed and the door. Can we use 1x2 rooms?
Maybe something like this.
(https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1346.0;attach=5980)
6 squares per room on average.
But I like using vents to equalize the temperatures in the rooms so maybe something like this.
(https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1346.0;attach=5982)
7 1/2 per room. Still not bad.
BTW is there a way to link to an attachment in the post so you can place an image where you want it?
Edit: Thanks. figures out how to add images in line.
[attachment deleted due to age]
If you're going to go with 1x2 rooms, then you might as well go the extra half step and make sure the pillows are facing the door, since pawns enter beds from the pillow tile. (Royal beds I believe it is always one specific pillow tile, but I can't figure out how to describe which.) Saves you the time spent walking at half speed over half the bed.
I've been designing "open floor plan" bases without hallways in them since The Sims, I think. I hate hallways. I would much rather have every bedroom open into a grand dining room or something.
My base layouts and and bedroom designs tend to have more to do with roleplaying thoughts about the desires of each colonist than they do with technical considerations of the game system. My most valuable colonists get the best rooms with the most stuff. Abrasive characters get little shacks on the outside of my perimeter defenses.
Quote from: amul on January 13, 2015, 11:48:06 PM
If you're going to go with 1x2 rooms, then you might as well go the extra half step and make sure the pillows are facing the door, since pawns enter beds from the pillow tile.
You mean in the first picture, because they are both 1x2 size rooms? I see what you mean. Putting the pillow end near the door would probably be faster.
Quote from: amul on January 13, 2015, 11:48:06 PM(Royal beds I believe it is always one specific pillow tile, but I can't figure out how to describe which.)
With double beds it's definitely the side I used in the second picture but I haven't tested single beds to see if they have a preference as to which side they get on. I just assumed it's the same as double beds and set them up like that accordingly.
Quote from: Rock5 on January 13, 2015, 10:36:05 PMBTW is there a way to link to an attachment in the post so you can place an image where you want it?
Sort of. You have to attach your image to your post first, then go back and edit your post with IMG tags to put it in the body of the post. It'll still show up as an attachment at the bottom. Note that you can get a URL for the thumbnail or the fullsize image (or both).
(https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1346.0;attach=5980;image)
^ Like so. And speaking of which, here's a more efficient way of doing the same thing:
(https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1346.0;attach=5990;image)
You could be more efficient by leaving out the "corner" wall blocks, and the middle of the "T" parts. On the left is the basic setup. Doesn't really matter what the doors are since I'm going to prop them open at all times. See the column on the right. I've made a dumping stockpile for pants only. It's still a private room, but with equalized temperature and no slow-down going between the bedroom and whatever it's connected to.
EDIT - Added my "full size" pictured from attachment to in-post.
[attachment deleted due to age]
^^ If these doors were built in zigzag shape at center instead, you would have long line thick wall (5x wide, how awesome is that!?) that can be used for residential purpose.
And If you want more space for walk, just add more doors instead of wall and keep it open by using method above.... even though it may look unrealistic but it is really effective for small space.
Quote from: milon on January 14, 2015, 05:54:39 PM
You have to attach your image to your post first, then go back and edit your post with IMG tags to put it in the body of the post. It'll still show up as an attachment at the bottom. Note that you can get a URL for the thumbnail or the fullsize image (or both).
Thanks. Seems obvious now in hindsight. :-[ I was able to edit my post the way I wanted to.
Quote from: milon on January 14, 2015, 05:54:39 PM
And speaking of which, here's a more efficient way of doing the same thing:
Nice. So basically it uses the same space as my first pic but with shared doors. I didn't know about that trick with the items holding open the doors although technically speaking your design has room for vents where I had the doors. So I could either use vents or prop the door open like you. Although your way you can use normal doors but get no slow down when going through like autodoors saving steel and power.
Quote from: Pathing on January 14, 2015, 07:01:01 PM
^^ If these doors were built in zigzag shape at center instead, you would have long line thick wall (5x wide, how awesome is that!?) that can be used for residential purpose.
Do you mean like this.
(https://ludeon.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=1346.0;attach=5996)
That is whacked!! That's 4 squares per person! Even with our best ones above you would have to include the corridors when calculating space used so they take 7 squares per person. Although I think you couldn't use it in alpha 9 because that would be classed as people walking in your bedroom. With milons version you still get your privacy.
[attachment deleted due to age]