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RimWorld => Ideas => Topic started by: Pheanox on October 06, 2013, 03:34:24 PM

Title: Animal Husbandry
Post by: Pheanox on October 06, 2013, 03:34:24 PM
So far we can see a few types of animal life.  The boomrats and muffalo.  Not having hands on the game, they seem to be more background, plot elements for the story based AI.  I propose there be more to them.

A deep and rich Animal Husbandry system would fit this game like a glove.  It could break in to several categories:  pets, food animals, and guardian animals.  You can domesticate certain animals to be pets for the survivors.  Pets would help the mental health of colonists, of course.  Keeping them gives them something to do, and provides more social impact.  But the system could go deeper still.

Alternatively, you train wild animals to support the colony.  Using current examples, you train boomrats to charge attacking raiders.  You capture muffalo, and start setting up a herd to provide food for the populace.  A new skill for colonists would have to be herding, or the like.  But lets take it a step further, shall we?

I am sure there will be other animals in the game.  This is an alien world, and the possibilities are basically endless.  Say you want a boost to defense, or hunting for food.  So you tame a predator species, and keep them in kennels.  You now have a fierce predator, a space raptor or something, to protect your survivors.  But these ferocious beasts scare the crap out of prey animals that give you food.  This then makes training and handling of prey animals for food much more difficult.  Perhaps it makes domesticating animals a bit harder as well.

This could go still deeper where you start breeding your animals for positive traits, and weeding out ones like the urge to kill domesticated pets.  I think this level of depth might be a bit too much for RimWorld, but it would be exciting.

Quick Edit: New traits could be added as well, such as "Cat Lady" or "Animal Lover" which make these people much happier socializing with animals rather then people.

Any other thoughts on this?

In all fairness to credit, this was brainstormed between me and a friend.
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: AspenShadow on October 06, 2013, 03:51:05 PM
An intriguing thought I too had been wondering about despite the early alpha stage.

I'm not certain about guardian animals; then again the fauna content we've seen so far has been limited to rats and muffalo (squirrels are rats no matter how cute), I think having farmed animals either killed for meat or kept for milk, eggs, by-products, etc. is a MUST for RimWorld. Those muffalo are begging for it, and a strange possibility is milking Boomrats of the substance that makes them so explosive for ammo or alcohol.

Having domesticated animals should be crossed with guardian concept I think, while Tribbles aren't very frightening to a raider the idea that they could give slight advanced warning of someone approaching the home zone or create a distraction is nice idea.

Personally I think an angry Malf (Muffalo calf) attempting a melee attack on a raider would be pretty damaging, unfortunately as far as domestic pets go without any combat addition to them I can only see a passive mood bonus to colonists that aren't allergic to cute furry things and a drain on your food stores.
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: Yarkista on October 06, 2013, 03:54:47 PM
It would be nice if herding animals to eat them was a feature, atm farming takes a lot of time to do, eating animals could assist with the early game quite nicely.
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: Pheanox on October 06, 2013, 03:58:14 PM
I'm not really sure that it fits to have you throwing your prey animals at raiders to do damage honestly.  I mean, sure, a muffalo calf could certainly do damage, but not as effectively as, say, a creature that has evolved to prey on muffalos.  The thought was more that domesticated pets would be an alternative for social and mental health, and not much more than that.  Having the three categories would actually be simpler than combinations, because if you go that route, technically every animal could then be a domesticated pet, from boomrats to muffalo.  I have a friend whose chickens mean the world to her.  So I thought it would be simpler to just have three separate categories.

Research in to animals for useful things is also a great idea.  Like milking boomrats, or finding that the hair of muffalo is a universal anti-agapic.
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: Spike on October 06, 2013, 04:03:22 PM
I like it!  Plus, we have seen the "Doglover" trait in gameplay videos.  Again, the varied wildlife sounds like a great fit for Biomes.

Quote from: Pheanox on October 06, 2013, 03:58:14 PM
pets, food animals, and guardian animals
Having the three categories would actually be simpler than combinations, because if you go that route, technically every animal could then be a domesticated pet, from boomrats to muffalo.

Yeah, I think I like the simpler idea.  With the one addition of being able to slaughter animals for food - most "food animals" could be used (default) to gain passive food  - milk, eggs, etc.  But if you want more, or have too many critters, you could butcher them; even the pets, although that would likely cause unhappiness...

Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: Mansen on October 06, 2013, 04:18:27 PM
It's a lot more involved than basic farming, but I'd like to be able to herd the local wildlife for meat and possibly dairy products as well.

Not as a primary food source, but for added variety. Anyone can live on salad, but a nice steak to go with it wouldn't hurt. (In other words give the colonists a mood boon for having a more varied and healthy diet)
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: AspenShadow on October 06, 2013, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: Spike on October 06, 2013, 04:03:22 PM
But if you want more, or have too many critters, you could butcher them; even the pets, although that would likely cause unhappiness...
:'( :'( :'( *Horrified Gape*
You are not butchering my Muffalo calf!

It would certainly make your colonists fear you if your loyal dog had the chance to go the way of Ol' Yella. The Dog-Lover trait I had seen but it slipped my mind, so I'm glad at least a dog is a relative certainty.
I agree with you Pheanox, but what I meant with the Malf-Tangent was that atm I've yet to hear of future-content-planned predators that would be scary enough to throw at a Raider or Merc.
I'm still not huge on the idea of domestic pets only being useful for a happy-boost though, is there another pro we can milk from that type of animal?

The idea of having a Meat-Lover and Vegetarian trait would be nice I think, whether it would be complicating things unnecessarily is another thing lol, but the idea of a colonist being upset at being forced to kill and eat her own meat to survive is a nice storyboard moment.
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: Spike on October 06, 2013, 04:33:20 PM
Quote from: AspenShadow on October 06, 2013, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: Spike on October 06, 2013, 04:03:22 PM
But if you want more, or have too many critters, you could butcher them; even the pets, although that would likely cause unhappiness...
:'( :'( :'( *Horrified Gape*
You are not butchering my Muffalo calf!

You do not understand the power of dead pets until you see a Dwarf Fortress tantrum spiral destroy a fort because of one lost pet.  :-*  Or the benefit of a stockpile full of Kitten Roasts, because you have to butcher them asap before someone adopts them, and your computer suffers from a catsplosion (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Catsplosion).
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: AspenShadow on October 06, 2013, 04:41:17 PM
Quote from: Spike on October 06, 2013, 04:33:20 PM
Quote from: AspenShadow on October 06, 2013, 04:25:20 PM
Quote from: Spike on October 06, 2013, 04:03:22 PM
But if you want more, or have too many critters, you could butcher them; even the pets, although that would likely cause unhappiness...
:'( :'( :'( *Horrified Gape*
You are not butchering my Muffalo calf!

You do not understand the power of dead pets until you see a Dwarf Fortress tantrum spiral destroy a fort because of one lost pet.  :-*  Or the benefit of a stockpile full of Kitten Roasts, because you have to butcher them asap before someone adopts them, and your computer suffers from a catsplosion (http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2012:Catsplosion).

... I- I- You- I'm so calling PETA on you!  >:(  You bad man! Bad, bad man!
You are sure as hell never coming to my colony or I'll find out all our kitten stockpiles have been torched!

Note: Just looked up Catsplosion... Pre-Emptive Cat Genocide is never the answer you heartless dwarves.
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: Pheanox on October 06, 2013, 08:49:11 PM
Yeah, the option to sell off your pets, or eat them, in a time of crisis would be great.  And the consequences of such would be fun to have to deal with, I think.

As for predator animals attacking raiders, just look at the boomrats.  They are already in the game and can kill your settlers pretty easily.  Imagine the front wave of attack against raiders is a swarm of explosive rodents!

Supplementing meals is of course something I would think would happen.  I am sure that later in development there will be more than just food paste.  I would argue that you couldn't really just live on potatoes and berries.  For food quality to rise,  a mix of vegetables, fruits, dairy, and meat would be fun.  Of course for characters with the vegetarian trait, research might be needed to get food that is just as filling for them, spawning new industry and farming, etc.

I think if this was looked at and fleshed out, it could also provide a lot of options for events in the storyteller AI as well.  Wandering predators attacking your survivors or a disease that affects your pets that you have to choose to deal with or let it run its course are just two that I thought up off the top of my head.  Predators attracted to your herd of animals, or raiders looking to steal food from them.
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: Finjinimo on October 07, 2013, 12:45:11 AM
I love the idea of some form of animal husbandry. Anything that adds variety to the way we build and run a colony gets a big thumbs up from me.

I also really like the idea that boomrats can't be domesticated... however you can catch them and keep them in traps. When a raider comes and sets off the trap, the boomrat is released -- and is hella angry.
Title: Re: [Suggestion] Animal Husbandry
Post by: AspenShadow on October 07, 2013, 02:19:39 AM
Quote from: Pheanox on October 06, 2013, 08:49:11 PM
I think if this was looked at and fleshed out, it could also provide a lot of options for events in the storyteller AI as well.  Wandering predators attacking your survivors or a disease that affects your pets that you have to choose to deal with or let it run its course are just two that I thought up off the top of my head.  Predators attracted to your herd of animals, or raiders looking to steal food from them.

It would add another element to the disease system that would be semi-predictive and yet still enjoyable. Perhaps if a colonist only eats a certain type of food they get health issues, or a batch of specific crops has become mutated/diseased and you have to work to live off the other stuff alone until it's sorted out?

Quote from: Finjinimo on October 07, 2013, 12:45:11 AM
I also really like the idea that boomrats can't be domesticated... however you can catch them and keep them in traps. When a raider comes and sets off the trap, the boomrat is released -- and is hella angry.

Definitely agree with this! I liked the idea of boomrats being usable in some way but they don't seem like they could be domesticated. Living mines however would be a very nice touch.
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: FangoWolf on October 07, 2013, 06:10:34 PM
What about vermin crop eaters.  Critters stealing food supplies.  Which could be hillarious if a locus like swarm rolled the area like army ants.
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: AspenShadow on October 07, 2013, 06:15:43 PM
Quote from: FangoWolf on October 07, 2013, 06:10:34 PM
What about vermin crop eaters.  Critters stealing food supplies.  Which could be hillarious if a locus like swarm rolled the area like army ants.

There will be quite a few vermin-type animals eventually, hell the squirrels are supposed to nick your food in the Alpha already, but some serious infestation issues would be amusing. Then there's the psychological effect exterminating hundreds of very fertile squirrels all over your base would have on your colony which I think would be an amusing story-board moment.

-On a side-note I think a nice event for the Random AI would be for a bunch of squirrels to band together and assault your base by stealing small objects/food before retreating and coming back for guerrilla assaults.
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: British on October 07, 2013, 06:23:24 PM
As of now, food can't really be stolen, since it's automatically hauled to the Stockpile area, where it disappears from the map to sit in your UI.
Now you could probably disable hauling for all your colonists, or make the food forbidden, but then... you'd have other problems than mere food getting yanked away from you ::)
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: Rutebegah on October 07, 2013, 06:37:21 PM
I think the sanity aspect mentioned (thinking of the game don't starve) would be great. Video games greatly overlook the psychological aspect & it makes for a interesting variable to the story line.
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: SpaceEatingTrex on October 07, 2013, 09:20:17 PM
I sincerely hope this is a planned element of RimWorld, because given the setting there's a lot of potential here! There are many different possibilities for alien creatures and how they interact with the colonists, both in gameplay and story. If the colonists aren't able to train/tame at least some of them, we're missing a lot of those possibilities.

One thing to be cautious of when implementing a system like this is the cost vs. return of animals. In Dwarf Fortress, animals like cats or birds (chickens, turkeys, etc.) consume no resources but provide a number of them. This means you can do things like keep an entire fortress fed with a small number of turkeys at next to no cost. The grazing mechanic for livestock animals improves on this by making livestock consume grass, and also the reproductive rate of livestock is much lower so you don't get such an exponential growth of resources. Thus, if/when animal husbandry is introduced in RimWorld the animals should consume some resource or be controlled so that they aren't easily exploited.
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: salt1219 on October 12, 2013, 05:17:37 PM
i remember reading somewhere about how much food it costs to raise a cow before slaughtering it.
it was a lot compared to what you get, diminishing returns come to mind.

there are other uses too, as mentioned above.  eggs, milk, maybe fur/leather
i would imagine larger animals being rather costly to keep.
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: GC13 on October 12, 2013, 05:25:56 PM
Well the point of cows is that they eat grass, which you don't have to put any effort into cultivating. Sure, it's not efficient if you're already working all available land, but if you're labor-constrained then they're a relatively "cheap" food source.
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: Hypolite on October 12, 2013, 05:30:11 PM
Or you can feed Muffalos meat and bone (from boomrats) flour, and they would get ESB and start attacking everything around... wait.
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: Pheanox on October 12, 2013, 08:46:00 PM
Or the fact they are Muffalo refers to the fact they are genetically modified buffalo that have been gene-tailored to not require as much food and to survive on alien planets and moons.  Meaning they don't follow current day rules of animal eating habits anyway.

Besides, you make TONS of food in hydroponics.
Title: Re: Animal Husbandry
Post by: British on October 13, 2013, 04:38:05 AM
Quote from: Pheanox on October 12, 2013, 08:46:00 PM
Or the fact they are Muffalo refers to the fact they are genetically modified buffalo
Or maybe the first colonist that saw one of them found them very clumsy, and thus they are muff a lot... and it sticked ;D