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RimWorld => General Discussion => Topic started by: Daman453 on August 08, 2015, 11:35:51 PM

Title: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Daman453 on August 08, 2015, 11:35:51 PM
Hello everyone, ever get that prisoner with a shot to the brain? Maybe a tribal at level 99 recruit difficulty. but why? The shot to the brain might have made him retarded, (I don't mean that in a mean way, just saying) or maybe forget short term memory, so shouldn't recruit difficulty go down?   
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mr.Cross on August 08, 2015, 11:50:05 PM
Not necessary, if you damage your frontal lobe of your brain you entire personality changes. You lose the ability to fear, and your aggression increases. So in my mind that would make for an even harder time at recruiting..
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mrshilka on August 09, 2015, 12:40:41 AM
Brain damage is so crushing in vanilla Rimworld rarely is it even worth recruiting someone with it.
And the levels of Brain damage means you are trying to recruit Hodor or possibly a rock.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: christhekiller on August 09, 2015, 01:09:47 AM
Quote from: Mrshilka on August 09, 2015, 12:40:41 AM
Brain damage is so crushing in vanilla Rimworld rarely is it even worth recruiting someone with it.
And the levels of Brain damage means you are trying to recruit Hodor or possibly a rock.

hey hey hey. Hodor is actually useful. Don't be hatin' on Hodor.

That being said, just euthanize any brain damaged folk. Or set them free I suppose... It's better that way
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: muffins on August 09, 2015, 01:38:37 AM
Brain damaged colonists have many uses. You can stick their bed in the dining hall and disable all their jobs just so they can give the social chat bonus to otherwise lone diners. Your doctors can train up on them too. Leg off, leg on, organ out, organ in etc.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: mumblemumble on August 09, 2015, 01:49:11 AM
This makes me think there should be an eviction ability for colonists.. Evict people who aren't useful,  maybe even having  them stopby later as an event.

But they also work as bait for ambushes,  or kamikazi nade / molotov users.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: lusername on August 09, 2015, 03:47:20 AM
Quote from: muffins on August 09, 2015, 01:38:37 AM
Brain damaged colonists have many uses. You can stick their bed in the dining hall and disable all their jobs just so they can give the social chat bonus to otherwise lone diners.
Although you'd think their conversational depth would be limited:
"So, how was your day?"
"Timmeh!"
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mikhail Reign on August 09, 2015, 07:08:53 AM
I think brain damaged colonists should get a buff to their general mood. The ol' ignorance is bliss idea. Also it would make them a little less of a hassle by giving them a little more thread so they can make it from the fridge to the table without having a mental break.

Basically it would work like a trade off - they work slower, but they also work a little longer.  (Obviously it wouldn't be a zero sum equation - a brain damaged colonist won be as useful as one that isn't)
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Necronomocoins on August 09, 2015, 07:30:35 AM
A few years ago I drove my two door hatch back head on into a Mack truck and spent 11 months in hospital. When the doctors told me that I had "severe brain damage", I didn't believe them and asked, "why am I so much smarter now?" They answered "We don't know enough about the human brain to answer that accurately." My point is that brain damage doesn't always work the same way for every case and could be reflected in game by a random small chance of brain damage having a permanent positive effect.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: b0rsuk on August 09, 2015, 10:40:24 AM
Quote from: mumblemumble on August 09, 2015, 01:49:11 AM
This makes me think there should be an eviction ability for colonists.. Evict people who aren't useful,  maybe even having  them stopby later as an event.

But they also work as bait for ambushes,  or kamikazi nade / molotov users.

I'm amazed how many people run their colonies like corporations, not groups of human beings.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mr.Cross on August 09, 2015, 11:22:16 AM
Quote from: b0rsuk on August 09, 2015, 10:40:24 AMI'm amazed how many people run their colonies like corporations, not groups of human beings.

There tends to not be a lot of empathy when you are trying to survive, or at least help a group of colonist survive.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: TwixFunSize on August 09, 2015, 02:10:56 PM
For Colonists and enemies that get brain damage, no matter who it is, I always put them down and in a proper  burial :(
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mr.Cross on August 09, 2015, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: TwixFunSize on August 09, 2015, 02:10:56 PM
For Colonists and enemies that get brain damage, no matter who it is, I always put them down and in a proper  burial :(

At least someone hasn't been corrupted by our ways...
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Daman453 on August 09, 2015, 06:42:06 PM
Even if my dude is really slow and breaks trying to get a meal, i think i might just kill him and a grave stone with a flower pot, interesting really, i wanted him as a crafter, haul in meals, put the stuff he needs in his room, he spends all day in his room. Damn if i had a convor mod then i could auto meal and auto send him stuff, maybe art?
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Coenmcj on August 09, 2015, 09:14:01 PM
Quote from: Mr.Cross on August 09, 2015, 02:38:52 PM
Quote from: TwixFunSize on August 09, 2015, 02:10:56 PM
For Colonists and enemies that get brain damage, no matter who it is, I always put them down and in a proper  burial :(

At least someone hasn't been corrupted by our ways...
... Yet.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mr.Cross on August 10, 2015, 06:06:48 AM
Quote from: Coenmcj on August 09, 2015, 09:14:01 PM-Snippets of Snippets-

Touché.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: TheDirge on August 10, 2015, 08:27:57 AM
brain damage can be cured with a bullet to the face
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Elixiar on August 10, 2015, 09:20:42 AM
If I have a long term colonist who gets brain damage I keep them alive in the medical ward, or if I'm far enough I preserve them indefinitely in my cryogenic chamber. I even try to build them a slot on the ship in the hopes one day a glitterworld like Palluma IV will revive them.

If a colonist is under 3 months since joining I consider them expendable.

(I like to role play ok)
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: tommonius on August 10, 2015, 09:32:00 AM
I get that a brain damaged colonist would be mostly useless but to me I just think that in the future their could be technological implant in said persons brain so they could perform simple tasks such as pressing a sequence of buttons or collecting certain targetted supplies.

Perhaps I play to much 40k and I keep thinking of servitors, mind wiped Humans who are programmed to follow instructions and receive implants to help facilitate this process.

Or failing that perhaps we could implant someone else's brain or head on the undamaged body? Hey someone went through the process in real life and an un-shot up body would work wonders for that really useful minion who got shredded in combat.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Thane on August 11, 2015, 09:41:51 PM
My first few Brain damaged colonists in A10 gave me emotional distress. I MADE them FUNCTION! They were turned completely bionic given the best armor and the best beds closest to the food.

Oh how Naïve I was; I could have had a few super soldiers instead of two barely functional cleaning men.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Adamiks on August 12, 2015, 07:46:52 AM
It looks that i'm the only one that don't have honor ;d When my favorite guy get killed/brain damaged i just load autosave - simple, but cheatsy (or cheaty, don't look at me like this! Even google translator couldn't help me! Halp!!)
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: cultist on August 12, 2015, 08:39:30 AM
Just make them your front line soldiers with melee weapons. Let them die with glory instead of wandering helplessly or being euthanized.

Or save up a few and send off a spaceship filled with brain damaged people. I'm sure they'll be fine...
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mr.Cross on August 12, 2015, 08:47:25 AM
Quote from: cultist on August 12, 2015, 08:39:30 AM-Famous last words of Cultist --->I'm sure they'll be fine...-

That is until they some how wake up in their cryptopods and start chewing on some critical ship wiring... Oh hey guys I think I figured out how our colonists got stranded!
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: BoogieMan on August 12, 2015, 07:56:22 PM
I just wish the brain damage wouldn't have such an incredibly excessive speed penalties. Bad enough brain damage makes it so it can take them a whole day to walk across the room to go eat. It should just disable all but simple tasks (depending on severity) and remove certain personality based job restrictions, allowing them to at least contribute as simple haulers and cleaners.

Since that isn't the case, I usually mod the game to drastically reduce the mood penalty for organ harvesting if the person is so bad off they have to be euthanized and don't use it in any other situations (other than the severe infections anyway) In such a survival situation it's a shame to waste the organs on someone who is essentially already dead - especially when injury and infection can be common.

Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mr.Cross on August 12, 2015, 08:02:35 PM
Quote from: BoogieMan on August 12, 2015, 07:56:22 PM-Snippets of the brain damaged-

I think it makes perfect sense, Think about it. Most people with brain damage not only go through huge personality changes (Google Phineas Gage) but most also have to relearn how to do simple tasks like walking and running. not to mention how to talk and other simpler things.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: milon on August 13, 2015, 01:50:19 PM
Quote from: Mr.Cross on August 12, 2015, 08:47:25 AM
That is until they some how wake up in their cryptopods and start chewing on some critical ship wiring... Oh hey guys I think I figured out how our colonists got stranded!

Oh my gosh, I LOL'd at that!  ;D

@BoogieMan, it can't be too realistic, and major brain damage should have a major penalty.  I just stick their bed next to a food stock pile and let them clean.  Or put them in a cryptosleep chamber, or a space ship pod.  If I really don't care for them, I lock them in their room, wait a while, and have cannibal deal with the aftermath.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mr.Cross on August 13, 2015, 01:58:11 PM
Quote from: milon on August 13, 2015, 01:50:19 PM- milon Loling hard at my theory -

My job has been completed, Make at least one person laugh!
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Cimm0 on August 13, 2015, 06:54:58 PM
They should make the brain have parts, just as hands have fingers and chest area has ribs etc. Different areas control different things in human body.

In real life, brain damage to different areas yields different problems too. Brain plasticity ("rewiring") can overcome some of them in those few good cases with minor damage, especially in young people. But in older people...not so much. And it may take years, even for young people.

Anyway, this is how there could be excessive penalty to one stat but none for others. Or if several parts get hit, big trouble and life as vegetable.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Adamiks on August 13, 2015, 06:59:58 PM
Quote from: Cimm0 on August 13, 2015, 06:54:58 PM
They should make the brain have parts, just as hands have fingers and chest area has ribs etc. Different areas control different things in human body.

In real life, brain damage to different areas yields different problems too. Brain plasticity ("rewiring") can overcome some of them in those few good cases with minor damage, especially in young people. But in older people...not so much. And it may take years, even for young people.

Anyway, this is how there could be excessive penalty to one stat but none for others. Or if several parts get hit, big trouble and life as vegetable.

Nice idea. I think i will make mod for this tomorrow because it's easy to make.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Daman453 on August 13, 2015, 07:12:49 PM
I might lock this if people are just going to argue about snipping posts. I am no admin or mod but please stay on topic.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: ItchyFlea on August 13, 2015, 07:47:11 PM
I've removed the off-topic posts. Please stay on topic guys.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Adamiks on August 13, 2015, 09:24:03 PM
Admins don't have any sense of humor....
It could make someone laugh, but nooooooooo. Delete it! Warn the poster! BURN IT!!
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Daman453 on August 13, 2015, 11:47:22 PM
Quote from: Adamiks on August 13, 2015, 09:24:03 PM
Admins don't have any sense of humor....
It could make someone laugh, but nooooooooo. Delete it! Warn the poster! BURN IT!!

I understand the jokes, but please, if your joke takes up half the page and is off topic then i don't really care. And please don't have a flame war with me over this. I am sure the admins/mods can handle it if you have any questions
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Mr.Cross on August 14, 2015, 06:03:50 AM
Daman453: did you at least see my apology before it got burned?

Admikins: are you still gonna do that mod on the brain parts? It really would be nice to see how it'd work.

Pehaps if this ever gets implemented in the core game some of colonists could come pre-brain wrecked?
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 07:10:04 AM
Yeah, i'm working on it, but i have some problems already. In real life bullet can hit brain parts that control sight and for example manipulation (moving also), i don't know how to make it in actuall game. I can make every part of brain next layer of brain but this will not work also, because colonists will get hit always in "layers" that are most "up". Or i can make every part of brain another "body part" in the skull, but i don't know if  this'll work, i think bullet will hit only one part at time (btw i didn't played Rimworld for long time, if bullet can hit two body parts at the time, please tell me it). I don't think this will work without DLL (and i suck at C#)

EDIT

Nah... This will not work. I've make a fast test in game to look how it works in actuall game. It works really bad. If colonist have destroyed one part of the brain he can still do everything etc. in real life losing brain part that you don't even need in long run would end in death anyway due to blood lost, but in Rimworld destroyed body parts don't bleed (btw which sucks, liver with cut bleed but hole in your chest not? Wtf?).
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Cimm0 on August 14, 2015, 09:30:47 AM
Quote from: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 07:10:04 AM
Yeah, i'm working on it, but i have some problems already. In real life bullet can hit brain parts that control sight and for example manipulation (moving also), i don't know how to make it in actuall game. I can make every part of brain next layer of brain but this will not work also, because colonists will get hit always in "layers" that are most "up". Or i can make every part of brain another "body part" in the skull, but i don't know if  this'll work, i think bullet will hit only one part at time (btw i didn't played Rimworld for long time, if bullet can hit two body parts at the time, please tell me it). I don't think this will work without DLL (and i suck at C#)

EDIT

Nah... This will not work. I've make a fast test in game to look how it works in actuall game. It works really bad. If colonist have destroyed one part of the brain he can still do everything etc. in real life losing brain part that you don't even need in long run would end in death anyway due to blood lost, but in Rimworld destroyed body parts don't bleed (btw which sucks, liver with cut bleed but hole in your chest not? Wtf?).

Oh snap, didn't know bullets only damage a single thing at once. Wouldn't work like that in real life, either. It would indeed seem weird to have fully functional colonists with some parts of the brain completely destroyed but who would otherwise be completely OK.

The wounding system is otherwise okay though, I think there's not much "new" brain damage could bring in terms of abilities. Can't get any new negative perks from it either, say, abrasive or volatile personality or neurotic behavior. I guess it would be as hard to code as it is to understand in real life, hehe.

Oh and btw, thanks for testing it out!
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 09:39:02 AM
Yeah, hiting two body parts (not layers) with one bullet would be hard to code, but destroyed body parts that bleed shouldn't be very hard to code (at least not for me :D). What i would like to see to no "bandage all!" system - you can literally bandage BRAIN without opening the skull, which is kinda bad. I think that colonists shouldn't be able to bandage any body part that is inside without operation (like removing organs etc.), small thing, of course but really important because colonists could actually die from blood lost before doctor could patch their liver. Yeah, i know that you can actually remove bullet without opening anything but it's not so easy to just "bandage" liver and be happy. Patching organs is really hard and i think that these kind of body parts should be a way more important, like you get a bullet in liver and you're dead if medic will not patch you. Fast. One bullet in the lung and you can't breeth due to pressure.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Necronomocoins on August 14, 2015, 12:41:01 PM
Seriously, my brain got squashed up into the inside of the front of my skull and was bleeding, a lot apparently, I had also fractured and compacted my L4 vertebrae and broke my right tibia but according to independent witness statements I "ran 100 meters in record time". All this with a "severely damaged brain" according to two doctors. I've never felt any pain from this accident (which happened 5 years ago) and have become smarter faster than I was before the severe brain damage, the only down side has been that I forget things slightly more often now. On the other side of the same coin, when I was in hospital I met a guy that had taken a drug once, in Vietnam, and he was almost a vegetable, another guy I met on his 18th birthday, that day he fell over, hit his head and died of aneurism in under a minute. Realistic health effects are very difficult to put into any game, in my experience.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 12:56:10 PM
Quote from: Necronomocoins on August 14, 2015, 12:41:01 PM
Seriously, my brain got squashed up into the inside of the front of my skull and was bleeding, a lot apparently, I had also fractured and compacted my L4 vertebrae and broke my right tibia but according to independent witness statements I "ran 100 meters in record time". All this with a "severely damaged brain" according to two doctors. I've never felt any pain from this accident (which happened 5 years ago) and have become smarter faster than I was before the severe brain damage, the only down side has been that I forget things slightly more often now. On the other side of the same coin, when I was in hospital I met a guy that had taken a drug once, in Vietnam, and he was almost a vegetable, another guy I met on his 18th birthday, that day he fell over, hit his head and died of aneurism in under a minute. Realistic health effects are very difficult to put into any game, in my experience.

We still don't know how our brains exactly works, but cases like yours are really, really rare. In most cases after brain damage you're dead, vegetable or (which is rare) nothing at all, but if someone get smarter (Do you have more IQ than before? Or you just feel that you can remember more things, or you remember things that you forget a long time ago?) after this then he is fucking Jesus and it's really rare. But even if you get smarter after this, you must remember than you can die due to blood loss really quickly even if you feel good - there is a lot of blood going through brain, i think you was just lucky that you didn't blackout or these doctors made too much drama about this and you wasn't bleeding so bad/you wasn't so long outside. Btw i think that with "several brain damage" you would just blackout at least, i think it wasn't so bad, but i wasn't here so what i can know. Btw 2 - you could not feel pain due to adrenaline. My brother get skull crushed (a little, no brain damage etc.), his whole back was in blood, but he was feeling good (well... he knew that he get damaged), he get back to home on bicycle and then my mom went with him to the hospital.

Also, if could exmplain how this happened this would be great, you know, bullet in the brain is something different than you could experience.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: milon on August 14, 2015, 01:25:55 PM
Quote from: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 07:10:04 AM
Yeah, i'm working on it, but i have some problems already. In real life bullet can hit brain parts that control sight and for example manipulation (moving also), i don't know how to make it in actuall game. I can make every part of brain next layer of brain but this will not work also, because colonists will get hit always in "layers" that are most "up". Or i can make every part of brain another "body part" in the skull, but i don't know if  this'll work, i think bullet will hit only one part at time (btw i didn't played Rimworld for long time, if bullet can hit two body parts at the time, please tell me it). I don't think this will work without DLL (and i suck at C#)

EDIT

Nah... This will not work. I've make a fast test in game to look how it works in actuall game. It works really bad. If colonist have destroyed one part of the brain he can still do everything etc. in real life losing brain part that you don't even need in long run would end in death anyway due to blood lost, but in Rimworld destroyed body parts don't bleed (btw which sucks, liver with cut bleed but hole in your chest not? Wtf?).

Any chance that your mod could translate a brain strike into "randomly damage 2-3 brain functions"?  If so, you could even add head bleeding after a bullet hits the brain.  Areas that could be affected: consciousness, memory (learning), manipulation, sight, speech (social), eating, sleep, and maybe others too depending on how detailed/complex you want to get.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 02:26:00 PM
Sorry, but no. I don't know how to mod in C# so i can't make it.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Necronomocoins on August 14, 2015, 10:57:51 PM
I did black out, after about 5 minutes I fell unconscious in the same field that the emergency rescue helicopter landed in and they induced a coma which lasted a week. My theory as to how I got "smarter" is that during the amnesia, with an almost empty brain, I was learning as quickly as a child and assessing/assimilating a bunch of newly learned stuff with the slowly returning memories and figuring out that a lot of the stuff that I thought I knew, was not true. On the first day of brain assessment, my learning and memory was dismal or worse, I could barely remember my own name, but it didn't take long, a few weeks, before I was smarter than before. Smarter as in learning faster.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 11:15:44 PM
Quote from: Necronomocoins on August 14, 2015, 10:57:51 PM
I did black out, after about 5 minutes I fell unconscious in the same field that the emergency rescue helicopter landed in and they induced a coma which lasted a week. My theory as to how I got "smarter" is that during the amnesia, with an almost empty brain, I was learning as quickly as a child and assessing/assimilating a bunch of newly learned stuff with the slowly returning memories and figuring out that a lot of the stuff that I thought I knew, was not true. On the first day of brain assessment, my learning and memory was dismal or worse, I could barely remember my own name, but it didn't take long, a few weeks, before I was smarter than before. Smarter as in learning faster.

It looks that you don't exactly get smartet but you get your "eyes and brain opened for new informations" after amnesia. I think everybody of us could do that with some hard work, but most of humans decide to just accept some things as fact and don't care anymore. After your "learning state" you saw that a lot of your thoughts was wrong and you decided to look for informations, do i'm wrong now? Maybe because of that you don't remember some things? Because you get so many info going on in your brain? It's really interesting... It looks that you brain started to work like a brain of a child - learn fast, don't remember too long to learn new things about these? We're in theories terytory here! ;d
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Necronomocoins on August 17, 2015, 01:44:25 AM
Quote from: Adamiks on August 14, 2015, 11:15:44 PM
Quote
It looks that you don't exactly get smartet but you get your "eyes and brain opened for new informations" after amnesia. I think everybody of us could do that with some hard work, but most of humans decide to just accept some things as fact and don't care anymore. After your "learning state" you saw that a lot of your thoughts was wrong and you decided to look things? Because you get so many info going on in your brain? It's really interesting... It looks for informations, do i'm wrong now? Maybe because of that you don't remember some that you brain started to work like a brain of a child - learn fast, don't remember too long to learn new things about these? We're in theories terytory here! ;d
Yes, thank you, what you said seems to make a lot of sense. With newly learned information that I deem worthy, I can try to commit it to memory, but, much like as a child I frequently forget very important things, but this seems to be improving by very small increments, very slowly.
Title: Re: Prisoners with shot to the brain.
Post by: Adamiks on August 18, 2015, 12:14:51 AM
Well... Didn't though you will find it interesting. It's like i'm 14 and my medical "informations" are mostly get from internet (i didn't learned about brain too much in school, but i'm interested in all medical-related stuff though) or logicial understanding (imagination?) of how it can works ;d